That's really, really hard question. Here are the 3 that stand out.



1982 Chateaux Cheval Blanc
1989 Chateau Le Pin
1978 Domaine Romanee Conti

I know someone in Houston area looking to sell a few 100 pt 2013 Napa cabs (Maybach, Schrader, etc) Retail price - which means not cheap for these.

I can be more specific if someone is truly interested in a special occasion wine or collector wine.

Larry,

I trade some wine , but its generally 1st growth bordeaux or DRC Burgs.

J.R. said:

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Larry,

I trade some wine , but its generally 1st growth bordeaux or DRC Burgs.

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I think this guy is trying to clear out some inventory and not trading. He does have a 08 Latache he is offering

Speaking of Bordeaux--what do you fellas recommend in the under $20 range. I've had a few from Central Market that they we're pushing that we're enjoyable. Is it true that Bordeaux is one of those wines that you need to spend more to get something decent? Thanks in advance for your recommendations. If this BOR vs. Briles thing keeps going on and the 3 BOR members keep airing our dirty laundry for the world to see, I'm gonna need a case of wine to get through each week. Cheers!

Chateau D'Aughie 2009 or 2014

Drank my last bottle of my favorite domestic chardonnay I've ever had. 2010 Evening Land Seven Springs La Source. a magnificent wine. still as young and vibrant as the initial bottle I tried, I suspect it has years remaining but not sure why you would wait any more.

J.R. said:

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It's amazing how much different So. Cal. Pinot and Oregon pinot is. Almost a different product. Interesting tidbit. The Willamette Valley and Burgundy are on the same latitude, hence the similarity.

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Santa Rita Hills isn't exactly "so cal" weather. In fact that AVA is cooler than RRV and most of Oregon (if not all). Different animal in that bad boy, much cooler than the larger Santa Lucia Highlands area.

cool weather, lots of sun and very dry soil (sand and limestone) leads to good chardonnay.

BearMace said:

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I know next to nothing about wine and let my friends handle the ordering, but I'll be subscribing to this thread. I love seeing just how much more people know than me (beer is another story you sophisticated *******s). I could be mistaken, but it's there a Baylor poster on shaggy who has just an absolutely absurd cellar? I hope he's here, and that I didn't just embarrass him too much stitch that he won't post. Please please humble brag here theoretical poster who may or may not exist, it's quite inspiring.

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I've intentionally avoided this forum out of fear of how much I might get sucked into writing, so I'm going to try and hit a few posts without going crazy.

By lay standards, I have a large collection (in storage), but I'm not on Shaggy at all so that isn't me. I had a pretty humbling moment about 5 years ago when I realized that I was approaching my mid 40's and had more wine than I could likely mathematically drink in my remaining lifetime. Since then, my buying has gone from a couple of thousand bottles per year to a few cases. The financial reality of going from a DINK household to a single income family helped bring reality into focus even more! And, that also changed my consumption habits which further compounded the problem.

Compared to my serious wine buddies, I'm maybe slightly above average in terms of cellar size.

Reading JR's posts, we have very similar targets and thoughts. Most of my cellar is Bordeaux. But, almost all 2nd growths on down. I've blind tasted hundreds of great wines across BDX and to my palate, the huge upcharge you pay for 1st growths is not for what's in the bottle, but what's on the label. I don't begrudge anyone from collecting those, but I buy (bought) wine to drink and enjoy.

I do have a lot of higher end Cali cabs and Saxum (Paso Robles GSM blends), but I agree many are teetering on over the top. In my experience, they are made for early consumption and while they may change with age, they don't improve. I like to drink mine in the 5-20 year range.

I'll quote some others with some more posts so they'll get the little blue notification that I'm commenting on their comments.

J.R. said:

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bularry said:

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I have less than 300 bottles. It is all in a closet at my house. No special cellar. I think it will be fine as long as I don't keep any 10+ years like that. Ideally I'll find a good off-site place in a few years so I can store with a little more peace of mind. Just don't have budget room to do it right now.

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It should be fine in the closet as long as you don't leave on vacation and turn off your AC and it gets to 110 inside. It will be cooked.

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J.R., I'm going us this to respond to this short one and the long one you posted above.

First, I'll sort of respectfully disagree with this point. It should be fine for 1+ years, but I would be concerned about 5+ at room temp (70-75). I agree that wine is not as delicate as some make it out to be, but at higher than cellar temps longer term it certainly loses some of it's vibrancy and the alcohol tends to come to the forefront. Just my opinion.

Now, as to your longer post. You and I have very similar wine philosophies. (And, we're likely neighbors. I'm in UP - hence my handle.) I'm heavy into BDX, but have almost zero 1st growths because I don't see value there. My wine groups usually taste blind within a category, so it eliminates label bias. Great wines consistently show themselves and the 1st growths never stand out. (Side tip to anyone interested: The 2003 Smith Haut Lafitte consistently ends up in the top couple of wines in our blind tastings and can still be had for a reasonable price.)

Also agree with your attitude about Cali being too big and over the top. Now, I enjoy some of those, but don't find them to be my first choices. I do love me some Maybach, Schrader, Realm, and Rivers Marie though. They are just hedonistic pleasures. I find SQN to be consistently over blown and have never rated them highly in blind tastes. Just over the top. I like Saxum ok, but mainly buy it for guests as a "wow" wine. And, I may be stepping on some toes here, but Caymus is just terrible. (Disclosure - I've served the SS, but I knew my audience and they loved it.)

Burgundy is a minefield, and I've come to avoid it because of that risk. But, I'll admit that an excellent 30+ year old red Burg is out of this world. I just can't tell which ones are going to hit and all the bigger names are uber expensive for even the basic wines (i.e. $250+/btl.). It's just not worth the risk of my capital. I have just a few cases of mixed quality stuff remaining.

I've come to love a lot of Italian wines, but my interest came about the time that my wine buying fell off the cliff, so I haven't kept up the buying. Great Barolo or Barbaresco is sublime.

I like domestic pinot, but for me, a lot of it is like candy. I enjoy it, but it's not in my wheelhouse usually. You mentioned Oregon, I do love Thomas. But, I fell off the list a few years ago and don't have any recent vintages.

ATXBear said:

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Just for fun-- what's the best bottle or glass of wine you've ever had? I'll start and list a few: Glass of Hundred Acre cab (don't know the year), Spotteswood 2007 Cab, 1985 Keenan Merlot, 2005 Opus One. As you can tell, I haven't had the opportunity to taste much of the quality wines outside the US. PS-- Caymus and Ghost Block are highly overrated IMHO.

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1990 Montrose. I've had it several times (twice blind) and it has always stood out above the crowd. It's one of the very few (only?) wines I've had that clearly showed as a 100 point wine.

(As an aside, the 2003 Montrose was supposed to be right up there close in quality and it has consistently disappointed compared to my expectations. Anyone want to buy a few cases from me?)

On the Cali front, Maybach (2006 notably) has always delivered and despite it's high rating, I think it's under rated. (I have a bunch of their recent 100 point vintages, but haven't popped one yet.) Realm Bard and Absurd in 2012 and 2013 have also wow'd me.

While these are all top wines, they aren't at the very top price wise like DRC or Latour. I just don't swim in those waters often and when I have, I've never had a bottle that struck me. Therefore my attitude that you pay a lot for the label at the very tip top.

A small DRC story. My wife and I were on our first real date on New Year's Eve 2003 and the restaurant had 1997 DRC Echezeaux for something like $400 on the list. Even back then, I recognized that was a bargain and splurged thinking (rightly) that I would never buy another DRC off a restaurant wine list. While very good, it wasn't mind blowing. But, I wish I had offered to buy every bottle they had at that price and doubled my money a few years later after the Burg craze came on full force.

Hey UP,

Thanks for the post. Yes, we are neighbors and roughly the same age so I wonder if we don't know each other. Going from DINK status to instant family with one income kinda makes large wine purchases the focus of the hairy eyeball from momma. I went from Oil at $145/barrell to $25. That will cure wine buying, too. I kinda did the same as you, bought a ton of Bordeaux from the 90'-2009 and ended up with a **** ton of wine. (Wife doesn't even like wine) Ive sold some though auction that greatly appreciated, but now I have lost of stuff from the 90s (3rd-5th growths) that are getting long in the tooth. I do agree with you to some degree on 1st growths. They are just too damn expensive for me to buy individually these days. I'm a member of the Dallas Chapter of Commanderie de Bordeaux and we have a fairly extensive cellar, so I get to drink some older 1st growths on a regular basis which is fun.

I also like and buy Vintage Champagne and Rhones as I find the age very well. I like White Burgs also. I would agree with you on Caymus. Meh. Had a 2007 over the holidays and it was just ok. As you mentioned there are some dudes around town with some serious cellars. I have a Friend that lives in one of the redone hotel residences in Uptown and he has the entire below floor that he turned into a cellar that is all Petrus and 1st growths. Interestingly enough, I friend in the Commanderie is auctioning off 10,000 bottles this Friday through Heritage in Beverly Hills. I'm hooking up remotely and bidding on some lots for the club which should be interesting.

What kinda of groups do you taste with? Surprised we haven't run into each other. We should get together to compare notes sometimes. I'm on Fairfax.

can I come to the J.R. and UP wine party???

Even though I primarily purchase and own domestics, I'm not a fan of the over the top flavor profiles. I don't dig SQN and Saxum (although I've only had a few). I've had lots of Cali cabs that I didn't care for. give me a funky Cayuse or a beautiful delicate and briney syrah from Copain or Drew or many others.

If I want a big wine I have a few select cabs from Cali and a few from Washington. Generally stay away from giant tannic wines. I like the blue fruit profile with that leather and tobacco mid-palate. I don't want chocolate or vanilla or pie filling.

I don't plan to hold many I currently own beyond 10 years and very few beyond 5. I'm drinking my collection almost as fast as I'm buying (thanks a lot cheap oil). Which makes sense because I don't expect many of the wines I own to improve with age. they won't get worse, but if they aren't improving no sense to hold unless for sentimental reasons.

My wife is my drinking companion. I know all about the AVAs and the winemakers and the grapes. she doesn't know any of that ***** but her palate is amazing. together, we've seen our tastes grow and evolve the past few years as we've drank wine on a more regular basis (and better quality). We appreciate the subtle and the complex. We both love all wines (except we don't really dig fortified much) that are "good", which can be a wide range of profiles. sparkling, chablis, RRV oaked chard, old cab or new pinot. if well made, I'm in!

A couple of years ago we bought a few '13 Grenache's from A Tribute to Grace. Santa Barbara fruit which usually isn't my favorite. I hate when GSM wines get that hard candy flavor of cranberry. but when done right and the fruit profile dances on that edge of tart and sweet and the acid sings.... man is that good. Those were magical. $33 each and as good a wine drinking experience I've ever had.

By the same token, I often find my memories of wines are heavily enhanced by the company, the food and the occasion. To me that is what sets wine drinking apart from just "drinking".

Larry,

Anytime you are in Dallas....Corks will be apoppin! I just want clarify, I'm lucky to have some really good wine, but I really enjoy searching out really good QPR juice as that is what I drink the most of. Lots of whites from Loire, Rhone Blanc, Italian from Alto Atige, Muscadet, Chablis, Dry Riesling from Germany, or Alsaceand other white burg of lesser communes in good vintages. Reds from Cote du Rhone, Cru Beaujolais (best thing going at the moment) Rioja,Ribeiro, Cahors, Oregon Pinot, Italy, American Syrah and a couple of balanced Zins.

I just bought a $9 Cab from Montes Alpha (Classic) at Costco that is spectacular. Also, a Droughin St. Veran for $14 that is unbelievable. Also, from Costco.

I hear ya on the QPR. I'm always on the hunt for under $20 wines.

and I'm gonna call your bluff. I'm in DFW fairly often and have a good friend that bought a house last year at Midway and Forest which isn't too far from your 'hood.

bularry said:

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I hear ya on the QPR. I'm always on the hunt for under $20 wines.

and I'm gonna call your bluff. I'm in DFW fairly often and have a good friend that bought a house last year at Midway and Forest which isn't too far from your 'hood.

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Please call my bluff.

Bring it on Larry

My palate isn't nearly as sophisticated as J.R.'s or Larrys, But I have a QPR recommendation. Recently enjoyed Valmorena barbera Diasti. For $12.50 this is a solid Italian table wine IMHO. They have another Barbera that goes for 16 and a more full bodied for around $20. The $20 bottle is fantastic and some of my wine collecting buds by it by the case for everyday drinking. Can be found at Central Market (likely at many of your local wine stores as a Ft. Worth group imports it.) Cheers!

i love Italian wines, I'll see if I can find any around Houston. thanks for the head's up

We should post casual tasting notes on here

Drank two of my more expensive wines the other day. 2012 Entre Nous Cabernet (Oakville) and a 2012 Domaine de la Cote - La Cote - pinot noir (Sta Rita Hills).

Entre Nous is a small family owned winery that recently ceased commercial operations, winemaker was P. Melka. I had heard the '12 wasn't as good as the vintage. I don't know, I thought the wine was very nicely done. Good tannins, but nothing crazy. certainly Napa in flavor profile but not obnoxious or over the top. Not the best QPR, but a very nice bottle of wine and I'm glad I've got 2 more. Wine felt integrated, no hard or sharp notes in the fruit or finish, so probably in a good drinking window now.

the La Cote pinot is from Raj P and Sasha Moorman. A fine, fine expression of pinot. great nose of funk, raspberry and damp earth. clear and piercing red fruit on the palate. nice acidity and a long finish. certainly not cheap (I think I paid $88 each for a 3 pack), but an exemplary wine. I think it might have a bit more to tell, so I'm going to try to hold onto the other 2 for a couple more years and see what develops.

J.R. said:

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That's really, really hard question. Here are the 3 that stand out.



1982 Chateaux Cheval Blanc
1989 Chateau Le Pin
1978 Domaine Romanee Conti

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Can only imagine what that DRC set you back. Is DRC as good as lore would lead you to believe? I hear that it tastes like liquid silk.

A few yeas ago a friend introduced me to malbec. Its been my favorite every since. I went out and bought 4 bottles, from $6 to $40. We did a semi blind taste test, and the $9 bottle won. It was Bodega Elena malbec. We have drank around 20 cases of that stuff since then. But I cannot find it anywhere.

Anyone have any insight into its disappearance?

I have switched to Norton Reserve, but its $20ish a bottle.

I have become a big Malbec fan as well. Great value wine. I like Amalya which retails for 11.99. Fruit forward but has decent structure for the price. Elsa Bianchi (discovered this at one of the the Houston's restaurants) for $9.00 is another great buy for the price. Clos De los Siete (17.99) is also another good option.

ATXBear said:

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I have become a big Malbec fan as well. Great value wine. I like Amalya which retails for 11.99. Fruit forward but has decent structure for the price. Elsa Bianchi (discovered this at one of the the Houston's restaurants) for $9.00 is another great buy for the price. Clos De los Siete (17.99) is also another good option.

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Thanks, never had any of those. I will try them out.

The Elena Bodega is my fav, followed closely by Norton Reserva and Gascon.

Here is the website for the Malbec I cannot locate.

If you happen to see this wine, please let me know where.

I used to buy it at Walmart, Kroger, HEB. Can't find it anywhere now.


http://www.bodegaelena.com/

I've had norton reserva and enjoyed it! Will definelty let you know if I come across the Bodega anywhere. Hate when you can't find a wine you enjoy! Had a similar experience with a Cab I had at a wedding 7 years ago. Can't find it anywhere. Another Malbec to add to the list is Rhuta 22. Solid option for $11 bucks.

What do you fellas think about Decanting/aerating? Is it necessary? I've owned 3 different decanting contraptions (rabbit, vinturi) and I like the one I have now bc it fits inside the bottle and is easy to clean up. Oddly I feel like some cheap wines I filter seem to taste worse.

I don't use them, but I don't consider myself a wine expert.

The vast vast majority of wines that people buy do not need decanting, although it doesn't necessarily hurt them.

I very rarely decant. I just do small pours and really swirl. Air exposure occurs relatively quickly

Appreciate everyone's feedback!

QPR Rec-- Dave Phinney of Orin Swift makes a wine blend for different regions called "locations". You can get his blends from Italy, CA, Spain, and France on sale at Central Market for $9.99. They normally retail for anywhere from $15.99-18.99 depending on where you buy it. The CA blend is normally $26.99 so it's a steal at this price. The sale ends on Tuesday. Cheers!

What's it going to take for someone that's obsessed with wine but doesn't have the resources to roll at y'alls level (due to three small children) to get an invite to this shindig?

IASIP Rocks said:

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What's it going to take for someone that's obsessed with wine but doesn't have the resources to roll at y'alls level (due to three small children) to get an invite to this shindig?

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Come on in brother. You got a $10 a bottle guy here.

ATXBear said:

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What do you fellas think about Decanting/aerating? Is it necessary? I've owned 3 different decanting contraptions (rabbit, vinturi) and I like the one I have now bc it fits inside the bottle and is easy to clean up. Oddly I feel like some cheap wines I filter seem to taste worse.

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I'm not much for aerating, but I'm not in that big a hurry either.

I decant 2 types of wine--young, big California reds and anything that has been in the cellar for a fairly long time. Those big Napa cabs etc, imo, usually need at least 30 minutes and I generally prefer them after an hour.

The older stuff needs to be decanted so you can leave the sediment in the bottle.

I don't decant Oregon/California pinot.