Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

Depends on what ya mean. Hidden from Baylor? Prolly lots of stuff. Hidden from the popos? Prolly nothing that would be worth a dang. I don't reckon I think anybody covered up rapes like some on here believe. There sure as heck hasn't been any evidence of that.

Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

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I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

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Well if somebody is guilty they should be punished. Right? You got evidence? Take it to the police. This here is advice that should have been heeded and dispersed bout 7 years ago to all Baylor staff and students.

Mothra said:

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Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

---

He was even more specific than that. He tied five coaches by name to the covering up of rapes, including the current head coach at Syracuse. If there is evidence, as he stated, of such criminal activity and Baylor has not acted upon that evidence by providing it to law enforcement (and after retaining the 3 coaches that remained on staff), then the university's administration is further criminally culpable. But, surely they provided this evidence of crimes to the Texas Rangers during their investigation?

No one has even alleged that.

Malbec said:

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Mothra said:

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Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

---

He was even more specific than that. He tied five coaches by name to the covering up of rapes, including the current head coach at Syracuse. If there is evidence, as he stated, of such criminal activity and Baylor has not acted upon that evidence by providing it to law enforcement (and after retaining the 3 coaches that remained on staff), then the university's administration is further criminally culpable. But, surely they provided this evidence of crimes to the Texas Rangers during their investigation?

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Indeed it would be. Which is why I find such allegations hard to believe.

Quote:

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If there is evidence, as he stated, of such criminal activity and Baylor has not acted upon that evidence by providing it to law enforcement (and after retaining the 3 coaches that remained on staff), then the university's administration is further criminally culpable.

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Bingo.

Ok, let me walk you through this, since it didn't sink in the first 50 times it was brought up.

There was an employee.

PH asked to interview this employee.

The employee provided answers to the questions and PH turned around and compared the answers to corroborative information provided in email, text and their records.

Chaos ensued.

I'm not sure that you need a criminal court case to fire an employee.

But in general in most corporations if you got caught lying to your legal counsel you get summarily fired.

I'm just giving you the trail to start sniffing from, not saying that was the whole reason. But you'd be a fool to think ANY company let's an employee get away with that.

It's difficult for a lot of the BaylOr faithful to understand because they are understandably blinded by loyalty and love, but Art was ready to move on.


I say later dude.

I read it on shaggybevo and texags

Brian Ethridge said:

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Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

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I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

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Well if somebody is guilty they should be punished. Right? You got evidence? Take it to the police. This here is advice that should have been heeded and dispersed bout 7 years ago to all Baylor staff and students.

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I'm saying I would never say ZERO if I'm not involved.

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I reckon we're all talking bout whats in the public forum. Yer staff on here. And I know yall are all privy to some details that us other folk aint. S'fine. But if there was a lick of evidence that anyone on staff covered up a rape back then it'd be known by now. One of them girls woulda said something.

Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

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I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

---

Well if somebody is guilty they should be punished. Right? You got evidence? Take it to the police. This here is advice that should have been heeded and dispersed bout 7 years ago to all Baylor staff and students.

---

I'm saying I would never say ZERO if I'm not involved.

---

I reckon we're all talking bout whats in the public forum. Yer staff on here. And I know yall are all privy to some details that us other folk aint. S'fine. But if there was a lick of evidence that anyone on staff covered up a rape back then it'd be known by now. One of them girls woulda said something.

---

Yep. And they would've put it in the gratuitous Shillinglaw answer.

In any event, they have waived a bunch of privileged info, so Dunnam will scream the worse facts to the rooftop at some point.

Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

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I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

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. C'mon man . If there was any evidence whatsoever of cover up by Briles don't you think the police, or the Texas Rangers or some ambitious prosecutor would have gotten him indicted for obstruction of justice? He did not cover anything up. It is an aggy argument that won't carry water.

Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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Chanceux said:

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Brian Ethridge said:

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BEAR RAMMAGE said:

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From a legal standpoint. Absolutely ZERO evidence.

---

I wouldn't step out on tree branch for anyone.

---

Well if somebody is guilty they should be punished. Right? You got evidence? Take it to the police. This here is advice that should have been heeded and dispersed bout 7 years ago to all Baylor staff and students.

---

I'm saying I would never say ZERO if I'm not involved.

---

I reckon we're all talking bout whats in the public forum. Yer staff on here. And I know yall are all privy to some details that us other folk aint. S'fine. But if there was a lick of evidence that anyone on staff covered up a rape back then it'd be known by now. One of them girls woulda said something.

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The same people that believe coaches covered up rapes are the same people that believe Dave Bliss covered up a murder.

mmodine said:

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The same people that believe coaches covered up rapes are the same people that believe Dave Bliss covered up a murder.

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Supposed Baylor fans still say that. On these boards. Boggles the mind.

Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think this through folks.

How boring that this is still being ranted and raved about by those wanting to excuse the past.

What a waste of bandwidth, go start a #CAB forum and be done wth it.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Ok, let me walk you through this, since it didn't sink in the first 50 times it was brought up.

There was an employee.

PH asked to interview this employee.

The employee provided answers to the questions and PH turned around and compared the answers to corroborative information provided in email, text and their records.

Chaos ensued.

I'm not sure that you need a criminal court case to fire an employee.

But in general in most corporations if you got caught lying to your legal counsel you get summarily fired.

I'm just giving you the trail to start sniffing from, not saying that was the whole reason. But you'd be a fool to think ANY company let's an employee get away with that.

It's difficult for a lot of the BaylOr faithful to understand because they are understandably blinded by loyalty and love, but Art was ready to move on.


I say later dude.

---

No clue who you're responding to, as what you wrote doesn't appear to respond to any post on this thread. As I said in the original post, I don't want this thread to be yet another should Briles have been fired thread. For the record, I think he probably should have been based on what I've seen and read.

My question is what evidence is there that a member of the Briles staff tried to cover up a rape. BeerThief has named 5 former coaches who he said did so, and said the evidence of same was presented in the PH report. I am curious what that evidence is, and if true, why no one has been indicted.

MilliVanilli said:

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How boring that this is still being ranted and raved about by those wanting to excuse the past.

What a waste of bandwidth, go start a #CAB forum and be done wth it.

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Bandwidth?
Do you need to connect and then get the download before you reply? Love that goofy middle mgt lingo. Maybe you should call yourself Michael Scott.

PartyBear said:

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Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think about this.

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Spin this out. Baylor gives Briles that letter knowing he's going to use it to try and get a job. Hamilton Ti-Cats hire Briles. Let's say they don't wuss out later. Then Dunnam uncovers Briles with live boys and dead girls. Baylor looks worse than ever in the media, and gets sued by Hamilton (who Baylor knew would be relying on this letter).

So I agree with you. If they'd found dead bodies they don't write that carefully worded letter.

Robert Wilson said:

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PartyBear said:

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Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think about this.

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Spin this out. Baylor gives Briles that letter knowing he's going to use it to try and get a job. Hamilton Ti-Cats hire Briles. Let's say they don't wuss out later. Then Dunnam uncovers Briles with live boys and dead girls. Baylor looks worse than ever in the media, and gets sued by Hamilton (who Baylor knew would be relying on this letter).

So I agree with you. If they'd found dead bodies they don't write that carefully worded letter.

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Robert,

I am glad you circled back for Milli. This will allow us to drill down and get the ball rolling. Remember, there is no "i" in team. We don't need to re-invent the wheel. We just need to go after the low hanging fruit. We can't keep moving the goalposts.

Mgt.

PartyBear said:

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Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think this through folks.

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That letter sure is confusin. No doubt about it. I reckon much of it has to do with firing Briles for what he said to PH and thinking that wouldn't be turned around on him. Baylor tryin to cover its tracks along with paying him off.

Mothra said:

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My question is what evidence is there that a member of the Briles staff tried to cover up a rape. BeerThief has named 5 former coaches who he said did so, and said the evidence of same was presented in the PH report. I am curious what that evidence is, and if true, why no one has been indicted.

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Since you're asking a question about something BeerThief posted, I suggest asking HIM. And I would assume if he mentioned something in the PH report, he was speculating/guessing what that was since it was presented to the BOR verbally and during executive session. I personally think nobody, without direct first had knowledge, will ever know any specific evidence. It's a complete waste of time to discuss it, IMHO. It won't accomplish anything. I say either move on and hope for the best going forward or GTFO and go support another football program.

Mothra said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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Ok, let me walk you through this, since it didn't sink in the first 50 times it was brought up.

There was an employee.

PH asked to interview this employee.

The employee provided answers to the questions and PH turned around and compared the answers to corroborative information provided in email, text and their records.

Chaos ensued.

I'm not sure that you need a criminal court case to fire an employee.

But in general in most corporations if you got caught lying to your legal counsel you get summarily fired.

I'm just giving you the trail to start sniffing from, not saying that was the whole reason. But you'd be a fool to think ANY company let's an employee get away with that.

It's difficult for a lot of the BaylOr faithful to understand because they are understandably blinded by loyalty and love, but Art was ready to move on.


I say later dude.

---

No clue who you're responding to, as what you wrote doesn't appear to respond to any post on this thread. As I said in the original post, I don't want this thread to be yet another should Briles have been fired thread. For the record, I think he probably should have been based on what I've seen and read.

My question is what evidence is there that a member of the Briles staff tried to cover up a rape. BeerThief has named 5 former coaches who he said did so, and said the evidence of same was presented in the PH report. I am curious what that evidence is, and if true, why no one has been indicted.

---

And I answered it that way to prove my point, which Is the people starting these threads about Briles aren't interested in the realities that drive these types of decisions for organizations.

What's the point in discussing legal evidence at this point other than to rehash some gripes?


Is beerthief an attorney in Waco? Because that sounds like something we've heard before..

Willie said:

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Mothra said:

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My question is what evidence is there that a member of the Briles staff tried to cover up a rape. BeerThief has named 5 former coaches who he said did so, and said the evidence of same was presented in the PH report. I am curious what that evidence is, and if true, why no one has been indicted.

---

Since you're asking a question about something BeerThief posted, I suggest asking HIM. And I would assume if he mentioned something in the PH report, he was speculating/guessing what that was since it was presented to the BOR verbally and during executive session. I personally think nobody, without direct first had knowledge, will ever know any specific evidence. It's a complete waste of time to discuss it, IMHO. It won't accomplish anything. I say either move on and hope for the best going forward or GTFO and go support another football program.

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Second this. Let's hear Beerthief and perhaps Beerthief can explain his perspective in the matter.

I'll ask again: is Beerthief an attorney in Waco?

Does it seem like Premies come over to this board an awful lot to tell people to GTFO?

He was fired by the actions of his staff.
It was why he got the letter from Baylor stating he was a clear. His mismanagement got him fired and his post firing actions along with his staff pretty much made him a face equivalent to Jerry Sandusky but not a chomo. Maybe a more productive course of action post firing would have opened up to job possibilities. Apparently, he and his staff's post firing actions led to a permanent vacation thanks to the college football money and powers.

You can take his letter from Baylor, make copies, frame the original and then use the copies for butt wipes. It ain't worth the shxt on it. People don't think Baylor had clean hands and think that both parties are making sure the public doesn't know the entire truth because it would mean the end of more people including some of the former staff.

Also, there are three more trials. Who in NCAA football wants to do with that storm brewing ahead and have Art as powerful face on their campus? Maybe at the Roach Unit or up in Amarillo at the Clements Unit there will be an opening for a physical fitness instructor but not anywhere people get non-online degrees.


There are lawyers from both sides on this site. I haven't seen today the one that told Art he was clear and could coach again. Legally, they were right but didn't take into account what kind of fallout would occur. I am sure the Baylor lawyers were thrilled he took the money. It sent the message "bad things happen" on his watch.

Mothra said:

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Moderators locked the previous thread that was discussing this topic, suggesting it had been discussed a thousand times (though I must have missed those threads). I am not interested in another debate among the pro-CAB and anti-CAB crowd on whether he should have been fired. As a lawyer, I am truly curious, however, what evidence there is the CAB staff covered up rapes, as BeerThief suggested. Another poster suggested BeerThief is privy to info. Care to share it?

---

There will never be evidence as most would call it. That is the work product of Pepper Hamilton that no one is privy to. I am sure a few plaintiff's attorneys will discover some, but it is said there is 27 gigabits worth of data and over one million documents so good luck.

The better question is have we been told the full story.

I believe the answer to that is yes. We were told in broad brush strokes in the findings of fact. below

Barriers to Implementation of Title IX within Baylor's Football Program

"Baylor failed to maintain effective oversight and supervision of the Athletics Department as it related to the effective implementation of Title IX. Leadership challenges and communications issues hindered enforcement of rules and policies, and created a cultural perception that football was above the rules. In addition to the issues related to student misconduct, the University and Athletics Department failed to take effective action in response to allegations involving misconduct by football staff. Further, despite the fact that other departments repeatedly raised concerns that the Athletics Department's response to student or employee misconduct was inadequate, Baylor administrators took insufficient steps to address the concerns.

Baylor failed to take appropriate action to respond to reports of sexual assault and dating violence reportedly committed by football players. The choices made by football staff and athletics leadership, in some instances, posed a risk to campus safety and the integrity of the University. In certain instances, including reports of a sexual assault by multiple football players, athletics and football personnel affirmatively chose not to report sexual violence and dating violence to an appropriate administrator outside of athletics. In those instances, football coaches or staff met directly with a complainant and/or a parent of a complainant and did not report the misconduct. As a result, no action was taken to support complainants, fairly and impartially evaluate the conduct under Title IX, address identified cultural concerns within the football program, or protect campus safety once aware of a potential pattern of sexual violence by multiple football players.

In addition, some football coaches and staff took improper steps in response to disclosures of sexual assault or dating violence that precluded the University from fulfilling its legal obligations. Football staff conducted their own untrained internal inquiries, outside of policy, which improperly discredited complainants and denied them the right to a fair, impartial and informed investigation, interim measures or processes promised under University policy. In some cases, internal steps gave the illusion of responsiveness to complainants but failed to provide a meaningful institutional response under Title IX. Further, because reports were not shared outside of athletics, the University missed critical opportunities to impose appropriate disciplinary action that would have removed offenders from campus and possibly precluded future acts of sexual violence against Baylor students. In some instances, the football program dismissed players for unspecified team violations and assisted them in transferring to other schools. As a result, some football coaches and staff abdicated responsibilities under Title IX and Clery; to student welfare; to the health and safety of complainants; and to Baylor's institutional values

In addition to the failures related to sexual assault and dating violence, individuals within the football program actively sought to maintain internal control over discipline for other forms of misconduct. Athletics personnel failed to recognize the conflict of interest in roles and risk to campus safety by insulating athletes from student conduct processes. Football coaches and staff took affirmative steps to maintain internal control over discipline of players and to actively divert cases from the student conduct or criminal processes. In some cases, football coaches and staff had inappropriate involvement in disciplinary and criminal matters or engaged in improper conduct that reinforced an overall perception that football was above the rules, and that there was no culture of accountability for misconduct.

The football program also operates an internal system of discipline, separate from University processes, which is fundamentally inconsistent with the mindset required for effective Title IX implementation, and has resulted in a lack of parity vis--vis the broader student population. This informal system of discipline involves multiple coaches and administrators, relies heavily upon individual judgment in lieu of clear standards for discipline, and has resulted in conduct being ignored or players being dismissed from the team based on an informal and subjective process. The ad hoc internal system of discipline lacks protocols for consistency with University policy and is wholly undocumented. The football program's separate system of internal discipline reinforces the perception that rules applicable to other students are not applicable to football players, improperly insulates football players from appropriate disciplinary consequences, and puts students, the program, and the institution at risk of future misconduct. It is also inconsistent with institutional reporting obligations.

The football program failed to identify and maintain controls over known risks, and unreasonably accepted known risks. Leadership in football and the athletics department did not set the tone, establish a policy or practice for reporting and documenting significant misconduct. The lack of reporting expectations resulted in a lack of accountability for player misconduct and employee misconduct. Further, no attempt was made to understand the root causes of behavior or steps necessary to prevent its recurrence. In addition, in one instance, in response to concerns about misconduct by football players that could contribute to a hostile environment, an academic program that required interaction with the football program improperly restricted educational opportunities for students, rather than take steps to eliminate a potential hostile environment"



This broad brush stroke summary did not satisfy many which gave rise to the conspiracy crowd which actually included some big money donors who would go on form BLR. After hiring Bunting (PR Firm) Regents Murff, Harper, and Gary released details to the WSJ including the infamous 19/17/4 -

Asst AD Shillinglaw and Briles both sued regents Murph, Harper, and Gray.

Briles dropped his suit first but the regents made a reply in the Shillinglaw case. This response is essentially the detail behind the findings of fact. You can read it here

https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/wacotrib.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/ac/bacc361a-e9b5-11e6-ad87-5fd2d6e674d8/5893e6dfbdcf3.pdf.pdf

It tells us

Why they spoke to the WSJ
Text messages of Briles deliberately keep things away from Judicial Affairs
Knowledge of the need to report to JA.
Story of Oakman terrorizing a femal student
Academic improprieties regarding Tevin Elliott
Briles own admissions
Why Briles was not suited to clean up and go forward


Now I know what Shillinglaw is. If you want to be Mr Attorney, no question it is not proof at all. Now if you are a reasonable person and just want to know what happened, it is right there for you.

I can not get you to believe they can back up what is in the Shillinglaw response , but by actions a reasonable person would think Briles and Shillinglaw think they can as they tucked tail and ran. We can also note the big money donors went silent after this was released.

Again, I agree, it is not proof - but yes, I believe it to be the story and I challenge the conspiracy crowd to refute it's content. If you want to cling to conspiracy, there is no proof, you are free to engage in wild speculation because nothing was proven to you.


Shillinglaw does not mention any specific assistant coaches. I have never read anywhere of rape cover up, only failure to report allegations to Judicial Affairs.

Chanceux said:

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PartyBear said:

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Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think this through folks.

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That letter sure is confusin. No doubt about it. I reckon much of it has to do with firing Briles for what he said to PH and thinking that wouldn't be turned around on him. Baylor tryin to cover its tracks along with paying him off.

---

The letter itself is not confusing at all - it says next to nothing.

Only the "why" such a letter was written is a question.

Willie said:

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Mothra said:

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My question is what evidence is there that a member of the Briles staff tried to cover up a rape. BeerThief has named 5 former coaches who he said did so, and said the evidence of same was presented in the PH report. I am curious what that evidence is, and if true, why no one has been indicted.

---

Since you're asking a question about something BeerThief posted, I suggest asking HIM. And I would assume if he mentioned something in the PH report, he was speculating/guessing what that was since it was presented to the BOR verbally and during executive session. I personally think nobody, without direct first had knowledge, will ever know any specific evidence. It's a complete waste of time to discuss it, IMHO. It won't accomplish anything. I say either move on and hope for the best going forward or GTFO and go support another football program.

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Thanks for the advice, but I already asked him and didn't receive a response. And as I said in the initial post, the other thread was locked.

PartyBear said:

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Baylor would not have sent that letter to Briles back in August if any of this was even possibly true. So just think this through folks.

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Absolutely correct.

Keyser Soze said:

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...I have never read anywhere of rape cover up, only failure to report allegations to Judicial Affairs.

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The rest of your post is extraneous. The subject of the thread is based upon a specific allegation from one beerthief, that 5 specifically named coaches "covered up rape."