Liberals want war with Russia over Ukraine

57,676 Views | 755 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by Mothra
boognish_bear
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quash
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RMF5630 said:

quash said:

RMF5630 said:

quash said:

RMF5630 said:

Day 35

Heck of a bluff. We are a shadow of our former
self. Ours and past generations held and pushed the line for 65 years. The current generations are sickening. Ukraine trusted liberals. The number of people screaming how nations are not worth helping defend from tyrants. Every free nation lost is a loss and the world is losing another one trying to move West.

If this group has their way. Korea would be all communist. Kuwait would be Iranian. Yugoslavia would still be in existence and communist. Soviet Union would still be in existence and Poland would be communist. Add up the number of people that are free to live their lives now, imperial empire my ass. But as long as we are not bothered, let Putin and Xi do what they want.

At my generation tried to do what was right, at least we tried.

Go read your far right isolationist crap to make you feel good. Patriots, right.


What direct American interests are at stake here? Or what lesser interest is sufficient to send my kid to die for?



That is not your call to approve the reasons. Or are you now going to renounce American citizenship if the decision goes against your belief? Leave the US because you don't believe Biden is "your" President?

But, you want your kid to not go. Have him not enlist or join. Really quite simple.

Or are you one that believes he should be able to take the college money and then feel he should be able to pick and choose when he goes.

If their is a Draft, not going to have a choice regardless of what you say. Or go to jail. Maybe buy him a condo in some place that isn't in favor of whatever war it is.

But none of this will co.e to pass. Aftetall, it is only Ukraine. Give it to Putin.


I'm an American citizen. I get to ask those questions that you refuse to answer.



You get to determine what you want to support? I guess you optionally pay taxes? Optionally pay fines and tickets? Optionally have a passport? Decide to not wear a mask on a plane? Yeah, you get to ask what we do as a nation! Ask away!

If we go to war, you get no choice just like the rest of us. You go, you go to jail or you leave. Keep pretending you get to choose what you do because tour an American. There is a price for citizenship.

Vote. Petition for redress of grievances. Etc.

Yes citizenship has a price, but it also confers rights. You can suffer in silence all you want.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Canada2017
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quash said:

RMF5630 said:

quash said:

RMF5630 said:

Day 35

Heck of a bluff. We are a shadow of our former
self. Ours and past generations held and pushed the line for 65 years. The current generations are sickening. Ukraine trusted liberals. The number of people screaming how nations are not worth helping defend from tyrants. Every free nation lost is a loss and the world is losing another one trying to move West.

If this group has their way. Korea would be all communist. Kuwait would be Iranian. Yugoslavia would still be in existence and communist. Soviet Union would still be in existence and Poland would be communist. Add up the number of people that are free to live their lives now, imperial empire my ass. But as long as we are not bothered, let Putin and Xi do what they want.

At my generation tried to do what was right, at least we tried.

Go read your far right isolationist crap to make you feel good. Patriots, right.


What direct American interests are at stake here? Or what lesser interest is sufficient to send my kid to die for?



That is not your call to approve the reasons. Or are you now going to renounce American citizenship if the decision goes against your belief? Leave the US because you don't believe Biden is "your" President?

But, you want your kid to not go. Have him not enlist or join. Really quite simple.

Or are you one that believes he should be able to take the college money and then feel he should be able to pick and choose when he goes.

If their is a Draft, not going to have a choice regardless of what you say. Or go to jail. Maybe buy him a condo in some place that isn't in favor of whatever war it is.

But none of this will co.e to pass. Aftetall, it is only Ukraine. Give it to Putin.


I'm an American citizen. I get to ask those questions that you refuse to answer.

well said
Osodecentx
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RMF5630 said:

quash said:

RMF5630 said:

quash said:

RMF5630 said:

Day 35

Heck of a bluff. We are a shadow of our former
self. Ours and past generations held and pushed the line for 65 years. The current generations are sickening. Ukraine trusted liberals. The number of people screaming how nations are not worth helping defend from tyrants. Every free nation lost is a loss and the world is losing another one trying to move West.

If this group has their way. Korea would be all communist. Kuwait would be Iranian. Yugoslavia would still be in existence and communist. Soviet Union would still be in existence and Poland would be communist. Add up the number of people that are free to live their lives now, imperial empire my ass. But as long as we are not bothered, let Putin and Xi do what they want.

At my generation tried to do what was right, at least we tried.

Go read your far right isolationist crap to make you feel good. Patriots, right.


What direct American interests are at stake here? Or what lesser interest is sufficient to send my kid to die for?



That is not your call to approve the reasons. Or are you now going to renounce American citizenship if the decision goes against your belief? Leave the US because you don't believe Biden is "your" President?

But, you want your kid to not go. Have him not enlist or join. Really quite simple.

Or are you one that believes he should be able to take the college money and then feel he should be able to pick and choose when he goes.

If their is a Draft, not going to have a choice regardless of what you say. Or go to jail. Maybe buy him a condo in some place that isn't in favor of whatever war it is.

But none of this will co.e to pass. Aftetall, it is only Ukraine. Give it to Putin.


I'm an American citizen. I get to ask those questions that you refuse to answer.



You get to determine what you want to support? I guess you optionally pay taxes? Optionally pay fines and tickets? Optionally have a passport? Decide to not wear a mask on a plane? Yeah, you get to ask what we do as a nation! Ask away!

If we go to war, you get no choice just like the rest of us. You go, you go to jail or you leave. Keep pretending you get to choose what you do because tour an American. There is a price for citizenship.
Do we get to ask questions about all of the issues you raise? BTW, you're asking questions, why not the rest of us?
Canada2017
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Yesterday the French foreign minister responded to Putin's threats with the blunt reminder that NATO also has nuclear weapons .

Today NATO announced deployment of its Response Force for the first time since the creation of the alliance .

Today the prime minister's of historically neutral Sweden and Finland announced that they are considering asking for NATO membership . Such announcements resulted in more Russian threats .


If Ukraine can just hold on for a few months or even just a few weeks ….Putin may find himself in a world stacked solidly against him .

At that point Putin might reach the conclusion that the only way for him to survive is to escalate the war .

quash
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Canon said:

Doc Holliday said:




That's some RT propaganda right there. Similar to the false leftist claim that 'white supremacy' is a real issue in the US.


The Azov Battalion says Hi.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Canon
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quash said:

Canon said:

Doc Holliday said:




That's some RT propaganda right there. Similar to the false leftist claim that 'white supremacy' is a real issue in the US.


The Azov Battalion says Hi.



You must think the black panthers are proof all blacks in America are black nationalists. You are so stupid.
jupiter
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jupiter
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Quote:

On social media, Ukraine's Interior Ministry continued to press its citizenry to resist the invasion, telling them to take down road signs and sabotage Russian convoy fuel supplies.

The State Road Agency of Ukraine "calls on all road organizations, territorial communities, local self-government bodies to immediately begin dismantling road signs nearby," the agency posted on the armed forces' Telegram feed and on Interfax. "The enemy has a miserable connection, they do not navigate the terrain. Let's help them go straight to hell."


https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/02/us-racing-350-million-immediate-arms-ukraine-includes-javelins-ammo-armor/362488/


FLBear5630
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jupiter said:

Quote:

On social media, Ukraine's Interior Ministry continued to press its citizenry to resist the invasion, telling them to take down road signs and sabotage Russian convoy fuel supplies.

The State Road Agency of Ukraine "calls on all road organizations, territorial communities, local self-government bodies to immediately begin dismantling road signs nearby," the agency posted on the armed forces' Telegram feed and on Interfax. "The enemy has a miserable connection, they do not navigate the terrain. Let's help them go straight to hell."


https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/02/us-racing-350-million-immediate-arms-ukraine-includes-javelins-ammo-armor/362488/

I would like to think that Americans (non-service members or veterans) would fight this hard if the US was invaded. I am worried about the younger generations I have seen. Trying to get them to go to a business dinner after work is a task that requires a day off in comp time and coming in late the next day. I just can't see them taking on any discomfort, let alone fighting.


jupiter
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D. C. Bear
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RMF5630 said:

jupiter said:

Quote:

On social media, Ukraine's Interior Ministry continued to press its citizenry to resist the invasion, telling them to take down road signs and sabotage Russian convoy fuel supplies.

The State Road Agency of Ukraine "calls on all road organizations, territorial communities, local self-government bodies to immediately begin dismantling road signs nearby," the agency posted on the armed forces' Telegram feed and on Interfax. "The enemy has a miserable connection, they do not navigate the terrain. Let's help them go straight to hell."


https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/02/us-racing-350-million-immediate-arms-ukraine-includes-javelins-ammo-armor/362488/

I would like to think that Americans (non-service members or veterans) would fight this hard if the US was invaded. I am worried about the younger generations I have seen. Trying to get them to go to a business dinner after work is a task that requires a day off in comp time and coming in late the next day. I just can't see them taking on any discomfort, let alone fighting.





If the occasion presented itself, Americans would rise to the challenge.
EatMoreSalmon
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jupiter said:





Using a weapon made by partisan fighters in WW2 and named after.... the Russian foreign minister.
D. C. Bear
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EatMoreSalmon said:

jupiter said:





Using a weapon made by partisan fighters in WW2 and named after.... the Russian foreign minister.


After the Russians were bombing civilians in Finland and claiming it was humanitarian food supply drops, Fins made "cocktails" to go with his "food."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molotov_cocktail

Russians haven't changed much.
Canada2017
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D. C. Bear said:

RMF5630 said:

jupiter said:

Quote:

On social media, Ukraine's Interior Ministry continued to press its citizenry to resist the invasion, telling them to take down road signs and sabotage Russian convoy fuel supplies.

The State Road Agency of Ukraine "calls on all road organizations, territorial communities, local self-government bodies to immediately begin dismantling road signs nearby," the agency posted on the armed forces' Telegram feed and on Interfax. "The enemy has a miserable connection, they do not navigate the terrain. Let's help them go straight to hell."


https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2022/02/us-racing-350-million-immediate-arms-ukraine-includes-javelins-ammo-armor/362488/

I would like to think that Americans (non-service members or veterans) would fight this hard if the US was invaded. I am worried about the younger generations I have seen. Trying to get them to go to a business dinner after work is a task that requires a day off in comp time and coming in late the next day. I just can't see them taking on any discomfort, let alone fighting.





If the occasion presented itself, Americans would rise to the challenge.



Could see the air force, navy and marines performing well .




Canada2017
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FYI


If the Ukrainian military can hold on for even two more weeks..........


There will be thousands of Poles, Czech's, Germans, Bulgarians, and Hungarians flooding INTO Ukraine ......to fight the Russians .

There are millions of Eastern Europeans with Cold War scores to settle.

And the Ukrainian president is inspiring them all.



Hope to hell he can survive .
FLBear5630
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Canada2017 said:

FYI


If the Ukrainian military can hold on for even two more weeks..........


There will be thousands of Poles, Czech's, Germans, Bulgarians, and Hungarians flooding INTO Ukraine ......to fight the Russians .

There are millions of Eastern Europeans with Cold War scores to settle.

And the Ukrainian president is inspiring them all.



Hope to hell he can survive .


On same page with this one
quash
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Canon said:

quash said:

Canon said:

Doc Holliday said:




That's some RT propaganda right there. Similar to the false leftist claim that 'white supremacy' is a real issue in the US.


The Azov Battalion says Hi.



You must think the black panthers are proof all blacks in America are black nationalists. You are so stupid.


If I had the limited binary thinking skills you display, maybe. You are the one denying that the military has a neo-Naxi battalion and then claiming that the existence of such battalion is not proof that the every member of the Ukrainian military is a Nazi.

Congrats. Once again you refute an argument I never made.

And ignored the argument I did make

The Ukrainian army has in fact got a few neo-Naxis.

Don't lie about it, it's cool, we still think Putin sucks

Right? You do think Putin is wrong to launch this unprovoked invasion? Right?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Osodecentx
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Canada2017 said:

FYI


If the Ukrainian military can hold on for even two more weeks..........


There will be thousands of Poles, Czech's, Germans, Bulgarians, and Hungarians flooding INTO Ukraine ......to fight the Russians .

There are millions of Eastern Europeans with Cold War scores to settle.

And the Ukrainian president is inspiring them all.



Hope to hell he can survive .
A brave man
Oldbear83
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Meanwhile Joe 'Tough Talk" Biden is hidin in Delaware
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
GrowlTowel
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Oldbear83 said:

Meanwhile Joe 'Tough Talk" Biden is hidin in Delaware


Honestly, that is good thing.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
jupiter
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Fight the Russians with Vodka
whiterock
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quash said:

Canon said:

Doc Holliday said:




That's some RT propaganda right there. Similar to the false leftist claim that 'white supremacy' is a real issue in the US.


The Azov Battalion says Hi.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend.
whiterock
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Canada2017 said:

Yesterday the French foreign minister responded to Putin's threats with the blunt reminder that NATO also has nuclear weapons .

Today NATO announced deployment of its Response Force for the first time since the creation of the alliance .

Today the prime minister's of historically neutral Sweden and Finland announced that they are considering asking for NATO membership . Such announcements resulted in more Russian threats .


If Ukraine can just hold on for a few months or even just a few weeks ….Putin may find himself in a world stacked solidly against him .

At that point Putin might reach the conclusion that the only way for him to survive is to escalate the war .


the FFM's comments are neither useless nor unhelpful, but they illustrate an irony that Putin is exploiting to keep most of Ukraine's potential allies on the sideline = no NATO country can act in its own national interest without risking obligating the entirety of NATO.. NATO cannot even engage in small wars in the shatter zone to maintain the neutrality of nations fighting other nuclear powers

Putin has realized, and is exploiting, a glaring NATO weakness: it cannot engage small wars involving other nuclear powers without risking nuclear war. So in EVERY conflict Russia chooses which does not directly involve a NATO member.....Russia can act with near impunity. Russia, having no such alliance, has no such constraint. Might be a small war for Russia, but anything beyond a histrionic demarche is a thermonuclear nighmare for NATO.

NATO, in this situation, is tying the hands of any European response to help maintain the neutrality of Ukraine.

Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors.
Canada2017
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whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Yesterday the French foreign minister responded to Putin's threats with the blunt reminder that NATO also has nuclear weapons .

Today NATO announced deployment of its Response Force for the first time since the creation of the alliance .

Today the prime minister's of historically neutral Sweden and Finland announced that they are considering asking for NATO membership . Such announcements resulted in more Russian threats .


If Ukraine can just hold on for a few months or even just a few weeks ….Putin may find himself in a world stacked solidly against him .

At that point Putin might reach the conclusion that the only way for him to survive is to escalate the war .


the FFM's comments are neither useless nor unhelpful, but they illustrate an irony that Putin is exploiting to keep most of Ukraine's potential allies on the sideline = no NATO country can act in its own national interest without risking obligating the entirety of NATO.. NATO cannot even engage in small wars in the shatter zone to maintain the neutrality of nations fighting other nuclear powers

Putin has realized, and is exploiting, a glaring NATO weakness: it cannot engage small wars involving other nuclear powers without risking nuclear war. So in EVERY conflict Russia chooses which does not directly involve a NATO member.....Russia can act with near impunity. Russia, having no such alliance, has no such constraint. Might be a small war for Russia, but anything beyond a histrionic demarche is a thermonuclear nighmare for NATO.

NATO, in this situation, is tying the hands of any European response to help maintain the neutrality of Ukraine.

Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors.

The issue is much clearer .

Simply put Putin has convinced the rest of the world he is willing to have a nuclear war .

The leaders of the NATO countries are not willing to risk a nuclear war.......at least not over a country that is not part of the alliance .

I wholehearted support NATO's decision .

In my opinion the real risk is when...not if ...Putin or his surrogates attack the Baltic States or another member of the NATO Alliance .

At that point NATO will have no option but to engage in WW3 .
FLBear5630
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Canada2017 said:

whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Yesterday the French foreign minister responded to Putin's threats with the blunt reminder that NATO also has nuclear weapons .

Today NATO announced deployment of its Response Force for the first time since the creation of the alliance .

Today the prime minister's of historically neutral Sweden and Finland announced that they are considering asking for NATO membership . Such announcements resulted in more Russian threats .


If Ukraine can just hold on for a few months or even just a few weeks ….Putin may find himself in a world stacked solidly against him .

At that point Putin might reach the conclusion that the only way for him to survive is to escalate the war .


the FFM's comments are neither useless nor unhelpful, but they illustrate an irony that Putin is exploiting to keep most of Ukraine's potential allies on the sideline = no NATO country can act in its own national interest without risking obligating the entirety of NATO.. NATO cannot even engage in small wars in the shatter zone to maintain the neutrality of nations fighting other nuclear powers

Putin has realized, and is exploiting, a glaring NATO weakness: it cannot engage small wars involving other nuclear powers without risking nuclear war. So in EVERY conflict Russia chooses which does not directly involve a NATO member.....Russia can act with near impunity. Russia, having no such alliance, has no such constraint. Might be a small war for Russia, but anything beyond a histrionic demarche is a thermonuclear nighmare for NATO.

NATO, in this situation, is tying the hands of any European response to help maintain the neutrality of Ukraine.

Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors.

The issue is much clearer .

Simply put Putin has convinced the rest of the world he is willing to have a nuclear war .

The leaders of the NATO countries are not willing to risk a nuclear war.......at least not over a country that is not part of the alliance .

I wholehearted support NATO's decision .

In my opinion the real risk is when...not if ...Putin or his surrogates attack the Baltic States or another member of the NATO Alliance .

At that point NATO will have no option but to engage in WW3 .


Waiting very rarely makes things better. The longer this goes on without NATO or China doing something the more invested he is and the more likely to go nuclear.
jupiter
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FLBear5630
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whiterock said:

Canada2017 said:

Yesterday the French foreign minister responded to Putin's threats with the blunt reminder that NATO also has nuclear weapons .

Today NATO announced deployment of its Response Force for the first time since the creation of the alliance .

Today the prime minister's of historically neutral Sweden and Finland announced that they are considering asking for NATO membership . Such announcements resulted in more Russian threats .


If Ukraine can just hold on for a few months or even just a few weeks ….Putin may find himself in a world stacked solidly against him .

At that point Putin might reach the conclusion that the only way for him to survive is to escalate the war .


the FFM's comments are neither useless nor unhelpful, but they illustrate an irony that Putin is exploiting to keep most of Ukraine's potential allies on the sideline = no NATO country can act in its own national interest without risking obligating the entirety of NATO.. NATO cannot even engage in small wars in the shatter zone to maintain the neutrality of nations fighting other nuclear powers

Putin has realized, and is exploiting, a glaring NATO weakness: it cannot engage small wars involving other nuclear powers without risking nuclear war. So in EVERY conflict Russia chooses which does not directly involve a NATO member.....Russia can act with near impunity. Russia, having no such alliance, has no such constraint. Might be a small war for Russia, but anything beyond a histrionic demarche is a thermonuclear nighmare for NATO.

NATO, in this situation, is tying the hands of any European response to help maintain the neutrality of Ukraine.

Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors.



There is only three ways to address this issue

1- Sanction to economic ruin which could take years.
2- Arm Ukraine to point they can fight, too late.
3 - Call his bluff and attack any unit inside or going into Ukraine.

We chose #1. Ukraine won't survive, but it may help Baltics.

Once this is done, he will test if NATO will risk nuclear war over Latvia or Lithuania. Problem with trying g to avoid anything is we just gage him his magic get what he wants card.
Oldbear83
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"Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors."

My English friend today told me 'Putin has a case of the clevers'.

That is, he has outsmarted himself.

Putin cannot keep Ukraine, and the price just to take it is far higher than he expected.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
william
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russia just doesn't really understand the west.

certainly putin doesn't.

they focus on the open discord and such and mistake that for the real state of things.

wh/ it isn't - for the most part. we just bicker and disagree openly. quickly close ranks and unite at times of crisis.

in russia that will get you exiled. or worse. been that way forever.

@see: dostoevsky, fyodor

- KKM

{ sipping coffee }




arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
william
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Oldbear83 said:

"Putin is quite a bit much much smarter than his internet detractors."

My English friend today told me 'Putin has a case of the clevers'.

That is, he has outsmarted himself.

Putin cannot keep Ukraine, and the price just to take it is far higher than he expected.
alot of 'confirmation bias'.

w/ a healthy smattering of: he kills everyone who doesnt tell him what he wants to hear.

wh/ is really an extreme form of confirmation bias.

- geopolitical psychologist LFS

{ finishing off coffee }
arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
william
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arbyscoin - the only crypto you can eat.
ATL Bear
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Conquering Ukraine is one thing. Keeping Ukraine is another.
Canada2017
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ATL Bear said:

Conquering Ukraine is one thing. Keeping Ukraine is another.
Russians know how to brutalize eastern Europeans into submission for decades .
ATL Bear
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Canada2017 said:

ATL Bear said:

Conquering Ukraine is one thing. Keeping Ukraine is another.
Russians know how to brutalize eastern Europeans into submission for decades .
No, they left that up to local despots under Soviet rule, and their record of success since the break up hasn't been impressive. Ukraine with likely bleed them long term, and the world will treat them like the oppressors they become.
 
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