I guess I should have initiated this thread.Canada2017 said:chuckleTexasScientist said:I'm used to harassment on here.RMF5630 said:You are gonna get yourself harassed for weeks if you put that out there!TexasScientist said:The resurrection shouldn't matter. Jesus was supposed to be the perfect unqualified sacrifice for All sins to be forgiven. If he had to be resurrected, then he wouldn't be the perfect sacrifice would he? You could just continue to sacrifice a chicken or goat and all would be good.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It being a "what if" discussion doesn't affect what I said.RMF5630 said:It was a philosophical "what if" discussion. You don't have academic discussions on subjects that allow you to stretch your thought processes? Why does every post have to be a Manifesto with you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Yeah, you know, salvation - the whole point of Jesus? Of Christianity? What I've been talking about this whole time??RMF5630 said:That is an interesting way to put it. I would have to defer to the message. What he said, the scriptures/prophecies and the second part of the equation, for Catholics anyway, is how I live my life.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:That wasn't my question - would your belief about the state of OUR SALVATION change if the resurrection wasn't true?RMF5630 said:Yes, I did.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:You didn't answer my question.RMF5630 said:And if you learned it didn't, it was a parable. Remember, this is a philosophical discussion, not an attack Could you still believe that God sent his son with the same message and had the same impact on the world? Would it change how and what you worshiped?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, if you believe a literal resurrection was necessary for salvation, then IF the resurrection isn't true, how would that NOT change your belief about salvation?RMF5630 said:The resurrection offers that sinful humans can be reconciled to God and thereby are offered salvation. Catholics, including me, believe in the resurrection of Jesus. None of that was what the conversation was about. The conversation was a "what if" and how it impacts you. But, you seem stuck on three words out of 8 pages. What it matters to you, I have no idea. We are not going to agree if this conversation is going where I expect.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Okay, let's be clear. Do you believe that our salvation is only possible through the actual, literal death and resurrection of Jesus?RMF5630 said:You took one line of an 8 page discussion on the Bible and a question a Moslem asked me 25 years ago and turned it into a faith statement. If you would read the other 10 or so posts you would see the context of the discussion was does the Bible HAVE to be literal. Obviously, you believe so. I do not, as it does not impact the way I live my life. I am done with this.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It has nothing to do with what I believe. If it is true that your beliefs do not require the resurrection of Jesus to actually have happened, then it is definitional/logically correct to say your beliefs aren't Christian. Cursing doesn't change that fact.RMF5630 said:Believe what you will. I don't give a ***** Whether you think I am Christian or not is irrelevant. Direct enough?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Well, no, you said exactly that: "Some facts are documrntable[sic], there was a Census. Pilate existed. Etc... But some also seem to be parables or hyperbole, such as walking on water, calming the storm, fisher of man, even resurrection". Was this in error?
Also, it would be correct to say that if your beliefs don't require the resurrection of Jesus to actually have happened, then your beliefs are definitely not Christian.
I'm not asking you to give a **** about what I believe. You should give a **** about what is truth, though.
If it would change your belief, then your belief system actually does require a literal miracle. The miracle isn't "cementing" the belief as you suggested, it is foundational to it. It can't exist without it. That's my point.
The basis of the question was that the Koran is very logical, you can find and follow quite easily. My Moslem friend used this to show that it was superior to the Bible. Why? Because the Bible required believe in supernatural events. Events that could not be proved and a lot that went against what we know from science. After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am.
Does that make sense? It is not an argument over what I believe, it is a "what if" from a Moslem with a logical Koran under his arm. Would you abandon Christ's message if the miracles did not take place?
"After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, that God sent his son, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am."
If I found out it was not true, it would not change a thing I do. I would not go running to the Koran. I would not abandon the believe in God. I would not go looking for a new moral code.
The question was asked by a Moslem to make his religion more attractive, get it? You keep coming back to fundamental arguments of the Christian Faith.
By your response to all this, I have to believe you would walk away and look for something else.
You did say you believe salvation is possible only through the resurrected Jesus, right? So if he really didn't resurrect, how does that not change your belief about the state of our salvation?
The one fact that is inescapable is that he, his message and his followers changed the world. OldBear brought up an interesting point that people died not for his word, but for the believe he rose again. Which plays into my point of changing the world.
I do not think I would defer to Islam which is where my buddy was trying to lead me. If I was forced to look at another religion, I think I would go back to Judaism since that was the original. Interesting thought process, when thought about in terms of salvation... Maybe tequila! : )
Yikes. It's alarming that you didn't understand the implication of there being no miracles on your Christian beliefs right away.
My point was precisely that within this "what if" discussion, you didn't stretch your thought process to realize how having no miracles actually destroys the central Christian belief and hope; and on top of that, you were unable to grasp it even as I was repeatedly pointing it out to you in our back and forth. It's just my humble opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't a Christian, but this kinda raises red flags. Just telling you the truth.
'harassment'
That's why you initiate so many anti Christian threads.
Losin' my religion
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Last: 1 yr ago by Sam Lowry
there are two illustrations here: 1) is the difference between skepticism and cynicism 2) the reason we are told not to cast pearls before swineTexasScientist said:Sacrificing a goat accomplished the same thing without requiring resurrection. Not so good for the goat though.JXL said:TexasScientist said:The resurrection shouldn't matter. Jesus was supposed to be the perfect unqualified sacrifice for All sins to be forgiven. If he had to be resurrected, then he wouldn't be the perfect sacrifice would he? You could just continue to sacrifice a chicken or goat and all would be good.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It being a "what if" discussion doesn't affect what I said.RMF5630 said:It was a philosophical "what if" discussion. You don't have academic discussions on subjects that allow you to stretch your thought processes? Why does every post have to be a Manifesto with you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Yeah, you know, salvation - the whole point of Jesus? Of Christianity? What I've been talking about this whole time??RMF5630 said:That is an interesting way to put it. I would have to defer to the message. What he said, the scriptures/prophecies and the second part of the equation, for Catholics anyway, is how I live my life.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:That wasn't my question - would your belief about the state of OUR SALVATION change if the resurrection wasn't true?RMF5630 said:Yes, I did.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:You didn't answer my question.RMF5630 said:And if you learned it didn't, it was a parable. Remember, this is a philosophical discussion, not an attack Could you still believe that God sent his son with the same message and had the same impact on the world? Would it change how and what you worshiped?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, if you believe a literal resurrection was necessary for salvation, then IF the resurrection isn't true, how would that NOT change your belief about salvation?RMF5630 said:The resurrection offers that sinful humans can be reconciled to God and thereby are offered salvation. Catholics, including me, believe in the resurrection of Jesus. None of that was what the conversation was about. The conversation was a "what if" and how it impacts you. But, you seem stuck on three words out of 8 pages. What it matters to you, I have no idea. We are not going to agree if this conversation is going where I expect.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Okay, let's be clear. Do you believe that our salvation is only possible through the actual, literal death and resurrection of Jesus?RMF5630 said:You took one line of an 8 page discussion on the Bible and a question a Moslem asked me 25 years ago and turned it into a faith statement. If you would read the other 10 or so posts you would see the context of the discussion was does the Bible HAVE to be literal. Obviously, you believe so. I do not, as it does not impact the way I live my life. I am done with this.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It has nothing to do with what I believe. If it is true that your beliefs do not require the resurrection of Jesus to actually have happened, then it is definitional/logically correct to say your beliefs aren't Christian. Cursing doesn't change that fact.RMF5630 said:Believe what you will. I don't give a ***** Whether you think I am Christian or not is irrelevant. Direct enough?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Well, no, you said exactly that: "Some facts are documrntable[sic], there was a Census. Pilate existed. Etc... But some also seem to be parables or hyperbole, such as walking on water, calming the storm, fisher of man, even resurrection". Was this in error?
Also, it would be correct to say that if your beliefs don't require the resurrection of Jesus to actually have happened, then your beliefs are definitely not Christian.
I'm not asking you to give a **** about what I believe. You should give a **** about what is truth, though.
If it would change your belief, then your belief system actually does require a literal miracle. The miracle isn't "cementing" the belief as you suggested, it is foundational to it. It can't exist without it. That's my point.
The basis of the question was that the Koran is very logical, you can find and follow quite easily. My Moslem friend used this to show that it was superior to the Bible. Why? Because the Bible required believe in supernatural events. Events that could not be proved and a lot that went against what we know from science. After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am.
Does that make sense? It is not an argument over what I believe, it is a "what if" from a Moslem with a logical Koran under his arm. Would you abandon Christ's message if the miracles did not take place?
"After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, that God sent his son, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am."
If I found out it was not true, it would not change a thing I do. I would not go running to the Koran. I would not abandon the believe in God. I would not go looking for a new moral code.
The question was asked by a Moslem to make his religion more attractive, get it? You keep coming back to fundamental arguments of the Christian Faith.
By your response to all this, I have to believe you would walk away and look for something else.
You did say you believe salvation is possible only through the resurrected Jesus, right? So if he really didn't resurrect, how does that not change your belief about the state of our salvation?
The one fact that is inescapable is that he, his message and his followers changed the world. OldBear brought up an interesting point that people died not for his word, but for the believe he rose again. Which plays into my point of changing the world.
I do not think I would defer to Islam which is where my buddy was trying to lead me. If I was forced to look at another religion, I think I would go back to Judaism since that was the original. Interesting thought process, when thought about in terms of salvation... Maybe tequila! : )
Yikes. It's alarming that you didn't understand the implication of there being no miracles on your Christian beliefs right away.
My point was precisely that within this "what if" discussion, you didn't stretch your thought process to realize how having no miracles actually destroys the central Christian belief and hope; and on top of that, you were unable to grasp it even as I was repeatedly pointing it out to you in our back and forth. It's just my humble opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't a Christian, but this kinda raises red flags. Just telling you the truth.
The sacrifice and the resurrection are part and parcel of the same thing.
I wouldn't call having to repeatedly do it for your whole life, with the chance you might die before the next sacrifice, more efficient or effective. And true eternal life is life in a resurrected new form like Jesus.TexasScientist said:So a chicken or goat was a more effective and efficient pathway to eternal life. Makes sense.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Perfect sacrifice means perfect atonement. But death still has to be defeated. The hope of every Christian is not atonement + remain dead, it is atonement + raised to eternal life.TexasScientist said:The resurrection shouldn't matter. Jesus was supposed to be the perfect unqualified sacrifice for All sins to be forgiven. If he had to be resurrected, then he wouldn't be the perfect sacrifice would he? You could just continue to sacrifice a chicken or goat and all would be good.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It being a "what if" discussion doesn't affect what I said.RMF5630 said:It was a philosophical "what if" discussion. You don't have academic discussions on subjects that allow you to stretch your thought processes? Why does every post have to be a Manifesto with you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Yeah, you know, salvation - the whole point of Jesus? Of Christianity? What I've been talking about this whole time??RMF5630 said:That is an interesting way to put it. I would have to defer to the message. What he said, the scriptures/prophecies and the second part of the equation, for Catholics anyway, is how I live my life.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:That wasn't my question - would your belief about the state of OUR SALVATION change if the resurrection wasn't true?RMF5630 said:Yes, I did.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:You didn't answer my question.RMF5630 said:And if you learned it didn't, it was a parable. Remember, this is a philosophical discussion, not an attack Could you still believe that God sent his son with the same message and had the same impact on the world? Would it change how and what you worshiped?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, if you believe a literal resurrection was necessary for salvation, then IF the resurrection isn't true, how would that NOT change your belief about salvation?RMF5630 said:The resurrection offers that sinful humans can be reconciled to God and thereby are offered salvation. Catholics, including me, believe in the resurrection of Jesus. None of that was what the conversation was about. The conversation was a "what if" and how it impacts you. But, you seem stuck on three words out of 8 pages. What it matters to you, I have no idea. We are not going to agree if this conversation is going where I expect.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Okay, let's be clear. Do you believe that our salvation is only possible through the actual, literal death and resurrection of Jesus?
If it would change your belief, then your belief system actually does require a literal miracle. The miracle isn't "cementing" the belief as you suggested, it is foundational to it. It can't exist without it. That's my point.
The basis of the question was that the Koran is very logical, you can find and follow quite easily. My Moslem friend used this to show that it was superior to the Bible. Why? Because the Bible required believe in supernatural events. Events that could not be proved and a lot that went against what we know from science. After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am.
Does that make sense? It is not an argument over what I believe, it is a "what if" from a Moslem with a logical Koran under his arm. Would you abandon Christ's message if the miracles did not take place?
"After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, that God sent his son, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am."
If I found out it was not true, it would not change a thing I do. I would not go running to the Koran. I would not abandon the believe in God. I would not go looking for a new moral code.
The question was asked by a Moslem to make his religion more attractive, get it? You keep coming back to fundamental arguments of the Christian Faith.
By your response to all this, I have to believe you would walk away and look for something else.
You did say you believe salvation is possible only through the resurrected Jesus, right? So if he really didn't resurrect, how does that not change your belief about the state of our salvation?
The one fact that is inescapable is that he, his message and his followers changed the world. OldBear brought up an interesting point that people died not for his word, but for the believe he rose again. Which plays into my point of changing the world.
I do not think I would defer to Islam which is where my buddy was trying to lead me. If I was forced to look at another religion, I think I would go back to Judaism since that was the original. Interesting thought process, when thought about in terms of salvation... Maybe tequila! : )
Yikes. It's alarming that you didn't understand the implication of there being no miracles on your Christian beliefs right away.
My point was precisely that within this "what if" discussion, you didn't stretch your thought process to realize how having no miracles actually destroys the central Christian belief and hope; and on top of that, you were unable to grasp it even as I was repeatedly pointing it out to you in our back and forth. It's just my humble opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't a Christian, but this kinda raises red flags. Just telling you the truth.
New? Didn't the resurrected Jesus allegedly show up in the same form he was in after he was crucified? I mean he was walking around with holes for Thomas to stick his fingers in right?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:I wouldn't call having to repeatedly do it for your whole life, with the chance you might die before the next sacrifice, more efficient or effective. And true eternal life is life in a resurrected new form like Jesus.TexasScientist said:So a chicken or goat was a more effective and efficient pathway to eternal life. Makes sense.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Perfect sacrifice means perfect atonement. But death still has to be defeated. The hope of every Christian is not atonement + remain dead, it is atonement + raised to eternal life.TexasScientist said:The resurrection shouldn't matter. Jesus was supposed to be the perfect unqualified sacrifice for All sins to be forgiven. If he had to be resurrected, then he wouldn't be the perfect sacrifice would he? You could just continue to sacrifice a chicken or goat and all would be good.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:It being a "what if" discussion doesn't affect what I said.RMF5630 said:It was a philosophical "what if" discussion. You don't have academic discussions on subjects that allow you to stretch your thought processes? Why does every post have to be a Manifesto with you?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Yeah, you know, salvation - the whole point of Jesus? Of Christianity? What I've been talking about this whole time??RMF5630 said:That is an interesting way to put it. I would have to defer to the message. What he said, the scriptures/prophecies and the second part of the equation, for Catholics anyway, is how I live my life.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:That wasn't my question - would your belief about the state of OUR SALVATION change if the resurrection wasn't true?RMF5630 said:Yes, I did.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:You didn't answer my question.RMF5630 said:And if you learned it didn't, it was a parable. Remember, this is a philosophical discussion, not an attack Could you still believe that God sent his son with the same message and had the same impact on the world? Would it change how and what you worshiped?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:So, if you believe a literal resurrection was necessary for salvation, then IF the resurrection isn't true, how would that NOT change your belief about salvation?RMF5630 said:The resurrection offers that sinful humans can be reconciled to God and thereby are offered salvation. Catholics, including me, believe in the resurrection of Jesus. None of that was what the conversation was about. The conversation was a "what if" and how it impacts you. But, you seem stuck on three words out of 8 pages. What it matters to you, I have no idea. We are not going to agree if this conversation is going where I expect.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Okay, let's be clear. Do you believe that our salvation is only possible through the actual, literal death and resurrection of Jesus?
If it would change your belief, then your belief system actually does require a literal miracle. The miracle isn't "cementing" the belief as you suggested, it is foundational to it. It can't exist without it. That's my point.
The basis of the question was that the Koran is very logical, you can find and follow quite easily. My Moslem friend used this to show that it was superior to the Bible. Why? Because the Bible required believe in supernatural events. Events that could not be proved and a lot that went against what we know from science. After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am.
Does that make sense? It is not an argument over what I believe, it is a "what if" from a Moslem with a logical Koran under his arm. Would you abandon Christ's message if the miracles did not take place?
"After much thought, my answer was NO. It would not change what I believe, that God sent his son, the message Christ has and the structure of the Church for worship and the impact his message had on the world would be enough to stay where I am."
If I found out it was not true, it would not change a thing I do. I would not go running to the Koran. I would not abandon the believe in God. I would not go looking for a new moral code.
The question was asked by a Moslem to make his religion more attractive, get it? You keep coming back to fundamental arguments of the Christian Faith.
By your response to all this, I have to believe you would walk away and look for something else.
You did say you believe salvation is possible only through the resurrected Jesus, right? So if he really didn't resurrect, how does that not change your belief about the state of our salvation?
The one fact that is inescapable is that he, his message and his followers changed the world. OldBear brought up an interesting point that people died not for his word, but for the believe he rose again. Which plays into my point of changing the world.
I do not think I would defer to Islam which is where my buddy was trying to lead me. If I was forced to look at another religion, I think I would go back to Judaism since that was the original. Interesting thought process, when thought about in terms of salvation... Maybe tequila! : )
Yikes. It's alarming that you didn't understand the implication of there being no miracles on your Christian beliefs right away.
My point was precisely that within this "what if" discussion, you didn't stretch your thought process to realize how having no miracles actually destroys the central Christian belief and hope; and on top of that, you were unable to grasp it even as I was repeatedly pointing it out to you in our back and forth. It's just my humble opinion, and I'm not saying you aren't a Christian, but this kinda raises red flags. Just telling you the truth.
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
Also, remember Jesus was not a teetotaler, not only did he bring the wine, he brought the good stuff...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
Clearly he's not a Baptist.RMF5630 said:Also, remember Jesus was not a teetotaler, not only did he bring the wine, he brought the good stuff...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
I am not sure he is Lutheran either! Jesus enjoyed life, if you want to see a guilt ridden, nothing I do is good enough, my job is to make sure you don't go astray crowd go to a Lutheran gathering!! Good times...TexasScientist said:Clearly he's not a Baptist.RMF5630 said:Also, remember Jesus was not a teetotaler, not only did he bring the wine, he brought the good stuff...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
I don't know, appearing with wine but not being seen at a liquor store is pretty danged Baptist.TexasScientist said:Clearly he's not a Baptist.RMF5630 said:Also, remember Jesus was not a teetotaler, not only did he bring the wine, he brought the good stuff...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Or, arguing against the use of wine in the service in favor of grape juice, and knocking down a fifth of Basil Hayden a week behind closed doors.Wangchung said:I don't know, appearing with wine but not being seen at a liquor store is pretty danged Baptist.TexasScientist said:Clearly he's not a Baptist.RMF5630 said:Also, remember Jesus was not a teetotaler, not only did he bring the wine, he brought the good stuff...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
No, zombies don't eat, talk, or retain their memory from before death. Frustration is leading you to make dumber comments.TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
It's kinda entertaining to watch pigs play with pearls, but c'mon man, where's your dignity? Get out of the mud, you're humiliating yourself.
https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/the-sequence-of-christs-post-resurrection-appearances/
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:No, zombies don't eat, talk, or retain their memory from before death. Frustration is leading you to make dumber comments.TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
It's kinda entertaining to watch pigs play with pearls, but c'mon man, where's your dignity? Get out of the mud, you're humiliating yourself.
https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/the-sequence-of-christs-post-resurrection-appearances/
I'd be careful using AnswersinGenesis as a source - they are young earth creationists who believe the universe was created in a literal 6 days lol.
I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
my response was to TX Sci Guy. He denies there is ANY evidence. His is a different point all togetherRMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
What's the good news?RMF5630 said:I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
No problems, just feeling orneryLIB,MR BEARS said:my response was to TX Sci Guy. He denies there is ANY evidence. His is a different point all togetherRMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
Judge the merits of the argument, not who's making it.BaylorJacket said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:No, zombies don't eat, talk, or retain their memory from before death. Frustration is leading you to make dumber comments.TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
It's kinda entertaining to watch pigs play with pearls, but c'mon man, where's your dignity? Get out of the mud, you're humiliating yourself.
https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/the-sequence-of-christs-post-resurrection-appearances/
I'd be careful using AnswersinGenesis as a source - they are young earth creationists who believe the universe was created in a literal 6 days lol.
Sir, please don't bog us down with those "details".Sam Lowry said:What's the good news?RMF5630 said:I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
Ask Mark...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sir, please don't bog us down with those "details".Sam Lowry said:What's the good news?RMF5630 said:I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
But, try this...
We don't have to pay the high price of our sin ourselves. Jesus paid it for us. Although he lived a sinless life, because of God's great love for us (John 3:16), he sacrificed his Son to atone for our sins. We can be redeemed from our sin by accepting the free gift of eternal life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. And if that weren't enough, God even supplies the faith for us. "For by grace have you been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselvesit is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
That what you looking for?
A lot of assumptions and melding of accounts going on there to create your own gospel.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:No, zombies don't eat, talk, or retain their memory from before death. Frustration is leading you to make dumber comments.TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
It's kinda entertaining to watch pigs play with pearls, but c'mon man, where's your dignity? Get out of the mud, you're humiliating yourself.
https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/the-sequence-of-christs-post-resurrection-appearances/
The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
clearly, you continue to beat the windTexasScientist said:The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .LIB,MR BEARS said:clearly, you continue to beat the windTexasScientist said:The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .
Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.
Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .
Weren't Roman Soldiers, under penalty of death, guarding the Tomb to stop any one from going in or out after Jesus was buried there? Wasn't there a heavy stone in front of the opening to Jesus' tomb? Jesus walking out, or the "swoon" theory, or the Disciples coming to rescue Him were not possible with armed Roman soldiers as guards. Just read up on Roman Soldiers. It takes more faith to not believe Jesus was Resurrected from the Dead, than to believe that He was.
Any books on Roman Soldier life you recommend? That is an interesting subject.Timbear said:
Weren't Roman Soldiers, under penalty of death, guarding the Tomb to stop any one from going in or out after Jesus was buried there? Wasn't there a heavy stone in front of the opening to Jesus' tomb? Jesus walking out, or the "swoon" theory, or the Disciples coming to rescue Him were not possible with armed Roman soldiers as guards. Just read up on Roman Soldiers. It takes more faith to not believe Jesus was Resurrected from the Dead, than to believe that He was.
Well frankly, no. You predictably failed to mention the one thing that makes the "free gift of eternal life" possible. The thing without which renders your faith "useless" and "futile" as explained in I Corinthians 15. The very thing which proved he was truly sent by God, instead of being just another man who said good words, but who lies dead and buried like all the other failed messiahs. The very thing which transformed the disciples from hiding cowards with crushed hope, into bold proclaimers of the gospel, and did so even at the expense of their own lives. The very reason the gospel has power and authority, hence its global spread. The central hope of every Christian that has ever lived.RMF5630 said:Ask Mark...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sir, please don't bog us down with those "details".Sam Lowry said:What's the good news?RMF5630 said:I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
But, try this...
We don't have to pay the high price of our sin ourselves. Jesus paid it for us. Although he lived a sinless life, because of God's great love for us (John 3:16), he sacrificed his Son to atone for our sins. We can be redeemed from our sin by accepting the free gift of eternal life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. And if that weren't enough, God even supplies the faith for us. "For by grace have you been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselvesit is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
That what you looking for?
But that's just me. It's Sam Lowry who asked you, so tell him. I have a feeling he'll agree with me.
Create our own gospel? It's the exact same facts and story.TexasScientist said:A lot of assumptions and melding of accounts going on there to create your own gospel.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:No, zombies don't eat, talk, or retain their memory from before death. Frustration is leading you to make dumber comments.TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
It's kinda entertaining to watch pigs play with pearls, but c'mon man, where's your dignity? Get out of the mud, you're humiliating yourself.
https://answersingenesis.org/jesus/resurrection/the-sequence-of-christs-post-resurrection-appearances/
Watching your argument devolve as you get frustrated is interesting.
Melding of accounts? Yes, that's called harmonizing the gospels. What every fair-minded, intelligent person would do.
Was this comment supposed to make sense?TexasScientist said:The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
RMF5630 said:Any books on Roman Soldier life you recommend? That is an interesting subject.Timbear said:
Weren't Roman Soldiers, under penalty of death, guarding the Tomb to stop any one from going in or out after Jesus was buried there? Wasn't there a heavy stone in front of the opening to Jesus' tomb? Jesus walking out, or the "swoon" theory, or the Disciples coming to rescue Him were not possible with armed Roman soldiers as guards. Just read up on Roman Soldiers. It takes more faith to not believe Jesus was Resurrected from the Dead, than to believe that He was.
Completely unrelated to theology, " Legionary: The Roman Soldier's (Unofficial) Manual" is a short but fun read on introducing the reader into the life of a Roman Soldier
How does adding the resurrection change any of that message? The resurrection is the how, not the what. He asked what is the good news. This is what pisses me off about people like you, my definition is correct according to almost every Christian Church. Adding your reading is still correct, not using exactly what you want to see does not make it wrong.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Well frankly, no. You predictably failed to mention the one thing that makes the "free gift of eternal life" possible. The thing without which renders your faith "useless" and "futile" as explained in I Corinthians 15. The very thing which proved he was truly sent by God, instead of being just another man who said good words, but who lies dead and buried like all the other failed messiahs. The very thing which transformed the disciples from hiding cowards with crushed hope, into bold proclaimers of the gospel, and did so even at the expense of their own lives. The very reason the gospel has power and authority, hence its global spread. The central hope of every Christian that has ever lived.RMF5630 said:Ask Mark...BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sir, please don't bog us down with those "details".Sam Lowry said:What's the good news?RMF5630 said:I would say Mark says it:Sam Lowry said:What is the message?RMF5630 said:I still don't know why we get bogged down in the details we may or more likely not agree on and focus on the message and how to do it in day to day life.LIB,MR BEARS said:TexasScientist said:So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.
You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.
The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news'" (Mark 1:14-15).
Justice, mercy, and faithfulness to God?
I know I am on dangerous ground...
But, try this...
We don't have to pay the high price of our sin ourselves. Jesus paid it for us. Although he lived a sinless life, because of God's great love for us (John 3:16), he sacrificed his Son to atone for our sins. We can be redeemed from our sin by accepting the free gift of eternal life that comes through faith in Jesus Christ. And if that weren't enough, God even supplies the faith for us. "For by grace have you been saved through faith, and this is not from yourselvesit is the gift of God, not of works, so that no one can boast." (Eph. 2:8-9)
That what you looking for?
But that's just me. It's Sam Lowry who asked you, so tell him. I have a feeling he'll agree with me.
I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
This is the verse before your citation. We are called to "test the spirits whether they are from God>'
I John is clear about the meaning of "from God." 'From God' goes to the heart of the nature of God which is "love." If a spirit fails that test then it is not of God.
This is the verse before your citation. We are called to "test the spirits whether they are from God>'
I John is clear about the meaning of "from God." 'From God' goes to the heart of the nature of God which is "love." If a spirit fails that test then it is not of God.
Waco1947