Waco1947 said:

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fadskier said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Dusty "But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.


I Corinthians 15: 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures 5 and
that he appeared to Cephas, He appeared to Mary Magdalene First at the tomb. John
Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers and sisters to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

It's not "exactly as Paul wrote" Literalist and inerrancy folk run a foul of the actual scriptures.

PS There is no need to be ugly to TXS for his challenges.

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Do you really think I meant their accounts were going to be exactly the same? Good grief.

It means that Paul preached exactly what his disciples did, that Jesus was crucified, was dead, and was raised.

But, to humor you, where exactly do you see their accounts conflicting? This may be a fruitless endeavor to get you to understand, but what the hey.

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It make no sense to me to Paul says exactly what the gospels" then I show you passages where it not exact. You can't have it both ways. Your very argument seems to impinges on the word "exactly." Either it exact or it is not.
PS Stop putting me down by 'humoring me.' because it is not Christlike and you are a disciple.

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He did not say that the two accounts were exact. But since you lie and deceive all the time, you already knew that.

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Yes he did. "Paul says exactly what the gospels say"

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What does Paul say that the Gospels don't?

J.B.Katz said:

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RMF5630 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

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If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

This is an interesting issue, I understand. Rarely miss Mass, pray every day, research, read and ask about it. But, where I am in the believe spectrum? A little right of center. But to say I have faith like some on here, blanket believe not matter what anything in the natural world shows?? Can't say I can get there.

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I have not discussed the slow fade of my belief in God with very many people--only my spouse and a few close friends.

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Who could possibly believe otherwise ?


lol

J.B.Katz said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

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You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

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clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

Your first sentence makes absolutely zero sense.

Who are you praying to? Is it a good habit like exercising or vitamins, or is it a bad habit with no positive purpose like jingling change in your pocket?

RMF5630 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

This is an interesting issue, I understand. Rarely miss Mass, pray every day, research, read and ask about it. But, where I am in the believe spectrum? A little right of center. But to say I have faith like some on here, blanket believe not matter what anything in the natural world shows?? Can't say I can get there.

---

I don't know that anyone can say they have 100% faith regardless of the situation.

Some people show and feel their doubt when a tragedy, like the sudden death of a family member, occurs. Others show their doubt when they continue to live outside of God's will (me with selfishness - my will doesn't always align with God's and many times, mine wins out). But we all have varying degrees of doubt.

RMF5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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RMF5630 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

This is an interesting issue, I understand. Rarely miss Mass, pray every day, research, read and ask about it. But, where I am in the believe spectrum? A little right of center. But to say I have faith like some on here, blanket believe not matter what anything in the natural world shows?? Can't say I can get there.

---

Do you believe God created the universe, and us?

---

Yes, but what is God? That is where it becomes fuzzy. Some Old Guy touching the Earth with his finger? Nature in general that has an intelligent design? A force that gets the top spinning and watches? Or, like the Greeks believed interacts with us daily? I don't know. I believe there is something responsible for all this, not just random chance. It had to come from somewhere.

---

I've been married almost 36 years. There are still plenty of things I don't know about my wife. God is MUCH more than I can comprehend.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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RMF5630 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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RMF5630 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

This is an interesting issue, I understand. Rarely miss Mass, pray every day, research, read and ask about it. But, where I am in the believe spectrum? A little right of center. But to say I have faith like some on here, blanket believe not matter what anything in the natural world shows?? Can't say I can get there.

---

Do you believe God created the universe, and us?

---

Yes, but what is God? That is where it becomes fuzzy. Some Old Guy touching the Earth with his finger? Nature in general that has an intelligent design? A force that gets the top spinning and watches? Or, like the Greeks believed interacts with us daily? I don't know. I believe there is something responsible for all this, not just random chance. It had to come from somewhere.

---

I've been married almost 36 years. There are still plenty of things I don't know about my wife. God is MUCH more than I can comprehend.

---

To state this another way: if my mind can fully comprehend God, then the god of my comprehension isn't big enough to be GOD.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

Your first sentence makes absolutely zero sense.

---

Naturally.

But the comment was made by an individual with absolutely zero self awareness .

REM feat. Buck, Peter on the Ukulele...........

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

---

thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

---

^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

---

Most of these guys aren't a good argument for Christianity, as they are either a version of the black knight in Monte Python who still wants to fight after his arms and legs are lopped off or just feel empowered by the superiority of their religious beliefs to ignore the "treat others as you would have them treat you" and "love God with all your heart and soul and mind" Christian ethics. (Someone who loves God with all their heart and soul and mind can't be so casually hatef

---

If you aren't a Christian, then how do you know what is a good argument for Christianity?

---

I'm a church-going Christian who no longer believes in God.

It's my culture. It's in my bones and my DNA-Methodist ministers back for several generations. I still pray. It's a lifelong habit. I just don't believe there's a supernatural, all-knowing God who has a vast plan that's unfolding.

If you are a Christian, why doesn't your faith inform the way you treat and talk to others? Or, if it does, how?

---

Your first sentence makes absolutely zero sense.

Who are you praying to? Is it a good habit like exercising or vitamins, or is it a bad habit with no positive purpose like jingling change in your pocket?

---

You appear to believe that the only purpose of prayer is to communicate with God.

One of my favorite parables is the story of the pharasee and the tax collector praying in the Temple. That parable says a lot about the purpose and importance of prayer.

I pray because it's a habit. As a child I was taught to pray every night (including learning macabre prayers like "Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep." I think it's a good habit. I don't plan to give it up.

Prayer is a conscious way to think about and acknowledge people I care about. I can believe prayer is a force for good as a way of directing one's mind to think of others and their trials and needs--a way I can love my neighbor--without believe someone has to be at the other end of the phone.

Prayer directs me toward concrete actions that I can take--meals, flowers, yard work, a note, a phone call-in cases of neighbors, work colleagues and people in my church community who are suffering loss or illness. When you get to be my age, old friends who are suffering illness and loss of loved ones, both parents and spouses, is a common occurrence.

I don't have to justify the fact that I pray to you any more than I need to justify the fact that I no longer believe in God. My spouse, a lifelong believer, says my prayers are evidence that I believe with my heart even though I don't with my head. There's some truth in that.

Who are you praying to?

BaylorFTW said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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You can choose a system of ethics and a directive to do your best to live in community without believing in a Supreme Being. Most people I consider moral role models are either not religious or practice another faith. Some of the meanest, most corrupt people I've ever known, people from whom I would never have accepted a job offer because of their reputation for humiliating or verbally abusing their staff, worked in the ministry or for publishers of Christian books and resources for church Sunday school classes and bible studies. And anybody who's ever played in sports leagues knows the dirtiest leagues are the church leagues.

I have not discussed the slow fade of my belief in God with very many people--only my spouse and a few close friends.

---

2 things:
1. If you reject God, you are reduced to subjective morality. So you can claim that a certain system of ethics is best but can't justify it. Someone could have a completely contradictory system of ethics and you couldn't truly tell them they were right or wrong. You are reduced to preferences. You also have to acknowledge that your life is ultimately meaningless, valueless and purposeless because you will pass away and everything else will eventually too and so nothing that is done will ultimately matter whether you are a great humanitarian or the most wicked of people. But if there is God, all that changes.

2. Romans 3:3-4 covers your criticism. Just because some Christians fail to be Christ like does not make God or Christianity false. I find many people who take this kind of position seldom apply the same standard and scrutiny to the new beliefs they adopt. I have found plenty of hypocrites and frauds in atheists, agnostics, self help, spiritual types too. You were talking about Christian culture before but your post also reads as if you have been heavily influenced by worldly culture. And now are stuck between trying to serve two masters.

---

Not only that, if you believe no God exists, then you must believe in a materialistic and naturalistic universe, where there is no such thing as "choice" because everything that is happening with the molecules in our brain is governed only by the physical laws of the universe. What you think, do, or say is only the determined result of these laws. The "will" or "choice" is merely an illusion. Thus, without choice, there is no such thing as "morality" in the first place. Being a great humanitarian or the most wicked person in the world are equal in that they are the mere result of the physical universe playing itself out.

BaylorFTW said:

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J.B.Katz said:

---

You can choose a system of ethics and a directive to do your best to live in community without believing in a Supreme Being. Most people I consider moral role models are either not religious or practice another faith. Some of the meanest, most corrupt people I've ever known, people from whom I would never have accepted a job offer because of their reputation for humiliating or verbally abusing their staff, worked in the ministry or for publishers of Christian books and resources for church Sunday school classes and bible studies. And anybody who's ever played in sports leagues knows the dirtiest leagues are the church leagues.

I have not discussed the slow fade of my belief in God with very many people--only my spouse and a few close friends.

---

2 things:
1. If you reject God, you are reduced to subjective morality. So you can claim that a certain system of ethics is best but can't justify it. Someone could have a completely contradictory system of ethics and you couldn't truly tell them they were right or wrong. You are reduced to preferences. You also have to acknowledge that your life is ultimately meaningless, valueless and purposeless because you will pass away and everything else will eventually too and so nothing that is done will ultimately matter whether you are a great humanitarian or the most wicked of people. But if there is God, all that changes.

2. Romans 3:3-4 covers your criticism. Just because some Christians fail to be Christ like does not make God or Christianity false. I find many people who take this kind of position seldom apply the same standard and scrutiny to the new beliefs they adopt. I have found plenty of hypocrites and frauds in atheists, agnostics, self help, spiritual types too. You were talking about Christian culture before but your post also reads as if you have been heavily influenced by worldly culture. And now are stuck between trying to serve two masters.

---

Is this supposed to convince me to believe?

I think "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is such a strong and solid ethic it goes far beyond preferences.

I also don't think I am "reduced" to anything if I affirmatively choose to live by a code without threat of hell and damnation if I don't and without assurance of any reward for doing so.

I also seldom see Christians live that ethic. It's a hard challenge, and one that most people reject while justifying their mean or dishonest or dishonorable or even abusive actions because they believe and part of that belief is that God forgives.

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lots of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

Finally, do you think "rejecting God" and not believing him are the same thing? I don't. I accept that others believe and that, in some cases, their belief is a positive force in their lives. It took me a long time to realize I did not believe in a supernatural God who intervened in human affairs and took an active interest in each individual and their fate. I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

J.B.Katz said:

---

BaylorFTW said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

You can choose a system of ethics and a directive to do your best to live in community without believing in a Supreme Being. Most people I consider moral role models are either not religious or practice another faith. Some of the meanest, most corrupt people I've ever known, people from whom I would never have accepted a job offer because of their reputation for humiliating or verbally abusing their staff, worked in the ministry or for publishers of Christian books and resources for church Sunday school classes and bible studies. And anybody who's ever played in sports leagues knows the dirtiest leagues are the church leagues.

I have not discussed the slow fade of my belief in God with very many people--only my spouse and a few close friends.

---

2 things:
1. If you reject God, you are reduced to subjective morality. So you can claim that a certain system of ethics is best but can't justify it. Someone could have a completely contradictory system of ethics and you couldn't truly tell them they were right or wrong. You are reduced to preferences. You also have to acknowledge that your life is ultimately meaningless, valueless and purposeless because you will pass away and everything else will eventually too and so nothing that is done will ultimately matter whether you are a great humanitarian or the most wicked of people. But if there is God, all that changes.

2. Romans 3:3-4 covers your criticism. Just because some Christians fail to be Christ like does not make God or Christianity false. I find many people who take this kind of position seldom apply the same standard and scrutiny to the new beliefs they adopt. I have found plenty of hypocrites and frauds in atheists, agnostics, self help, spiritual types too. You were talking about Christian culture before but your post also reads as if you have been heavily influenced by worldly culture. And now are stuck between trying to serve two masters.

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

"....WE'VE wreaked worldwide..." - key phrase there.

God created us to have choice, and put us in an action-consequences model of existence. 90% of the world lives in chaos, but I'm sure more than 90% live also in disobedience to God.

But you may ask why is this a good plan? If any of us knew exactly why, we'd be God. The point is to trust Him in his plan of redemption from all this. God loves faith, and wants to see who has it and who chooses to believe Him. Maybe that's part of why.

There are other good things that come out of an existence of pain and suffering - without it, there would be no true empathy and understanding of others. We would not understand what true compassion is, or humility. There would be no self sacrifice for the easing of suffering of others. In other words, there would be no depth to love. There are some really good things for the soul that come out of suffering, that God probably wants us to have, and to see who among us will come out of this temporary existence with it.

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

When people say "thoughts and prayers", I guess your taking care of the thoughts as opposed to the prayers.

Here is the first definition of prayer that I found:
prayer
/prer/
noun
a solemn request for help or expression of thanks addressed to God or an object of worship

So my question would be, when you pray, who or what is your object of worship?

Perhaps your husband is correct in that your continued "praying" may be that mustard seed of faith. If that's a possibility, I would ask that you give it a chance to grow.

Paul wrote "We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves but on God, who raises the dead. He has delivered us from such a deadly peril, and he will deliver us. On him we have set our hope that he will continue to deliver us." 2 Corinthians 1:8-10

He said "despaired even of life." I can only imagine how you have felt in dealing with the sudden loss of your parents but, I can imagine Paul's description has applied at times.

There is no hope in a godless life and a godless death. Our hope, the hope of all those family ministers, and your hope lies in Christ Jesus.

Let that mustard seed grow!

What did Christ teach? What does the Friday night drinking binge by the church organist teach? Who are you going to follow?

What is the intent of law or of medicine? Would you allow a group of ambulance chasers to turn you away from knowing that justice is indeed a good thing, or some medical quacks turn you into denying that the medical practice is a good thing?

FOLLOW CHRIST AND HIS TEACHINGS!!! Please. He is there for you, a breath away.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

JB I 'd describe that as a slow fade.

What I "lost" was the belief that religion was a force for good. I now fear religion engenders a dangerous and harmful hubris. That's because of Christian / religious / Republican / conservative refusal to (1) accept the reality of climate change (which, unlike God, is not something you "believe" in or don't--it's happening, in real time, right now, visibly, (2) be honest about what's contributing to it and who it will impact, (3) be honest about how little we know about how climate on our planet really works and how our activities impact that rather than flatly refusing to look at any science exploring those impacts except the distinct minority of cranks that said we need do nothing or that there was nothing we could do, and (4) support working across party lines to make meaningful changes that will mean fewer deaths of starvation, heat, thirst and climate refugees who won't be welcome anywhere else once their land is arid or flooded.

We are about to find out how much damage people can do in 200 years and how many millenia it will take for the planet to correct that damage and whether the human race will survive the damage we've wrought by holding humanity as superior to all other life on the planet to the point of causing mass extinctions of animals, insects and plants that all worked together to make the planet habitable. For people who supposedly view God's creation with great awe, Christians sure have shown a total lack of respect for or interest in the systems they believe God set up to sustain that creation.

I'm also bothered this refusal was in part based either on a belief that the end times would come so the earth didn't matter or that God is in control of this hot mess we've created.

We are out of control. As a planet. As a nation. And Christians are pushing us further out of control rather than being a force for good or moderation or caring for life beyond Aemrican fetuses (most of the rest of the world isn't going to outlaw abortion--that's an American phenomenon) to a habitable planet for future generations. Hence, my original question. People who won't acknowledge climate change are not pro-life. They're pro-lie"

It is hard to maintain a faith in God. I still believe that God is redeeming the world. The reign of God is here and now and looks yeast in flour and as the baker kneads the bread so the reign of God works in in the word. In my humble opinion you are not far from God and the reign of God has near to you.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

fadskier said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

---

I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

---

The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

---

Paul didn't write a gospel, and Paul's message is not exactly the same as the Gospels.

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

fadskier said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

---

I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

---

The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

---

Paul didn't write a gospel, and Paul's message is not exactly the same as the Gospels.

---

Paul didn't dance the hoochie coo either. Has about the same relevance, though.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

One issue I have with some religions is the implication that you can do some really bad things and all you need to do right before you die is truly and earnestly repent of your sins and Jesus will welcome you into the kingdom. (I also think lost of people underestimate the very high bar of "truly and earnestly repent.")

---

This is literally the point of the parable of the Prodigal Son and the Workers in the Vineyard. Surely you've heard some good sermons on these.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I question the validity of a faith based solely on stated belief (which people can state they have even when they don't) when the person's behavior toward others and the planet is mean, contemptyous, self-serving and superior. Lots of churches tell men they can behave like this and feel justified, sanctified and satisfied. I find that repugnant.

---

This has never been taught in any Catholic church. I've been to only a handful of Baptist, Methodist, and Presbyterian churches - I've never heard that preached there either.

J.B.Katz said:

---

I find it hard to see how so many people can either ignore how more than 90% of the people on the planet live or somehow conclude that the chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is part of a wonderful plan.

---

According to a 2016 survey, 55% of the world is monotheistic. I could understand maybe 40-45% misunderstanding God's plan.

The "chaos and human misery we've wreaked worldwide is" NOT "part of a wonderful plan." God did not intent for this. He only wishes the good for humankind. He loves us so much that He gave us free will. We screwed this up.

God, with His permissive will, allows this to happen. Christians believe that God can use this evil for a greater good.

I hope one day you will understand this. I also hope that you can come up with a definition of God.

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

fadskier said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

---

I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

---

The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

---

Paul didn't write a gospel, and Paul's message is not exactly the same as the Gospels.

---

Paul didn't dance the hoochie coo either. Has about the same relevance, though.

---

Exactly, they aren't the same.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

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I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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fadskier said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

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So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

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You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

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The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

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I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

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I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

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The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

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Paul didn't write a gospel, and Paul's message is not exactly the same as the Gospels.

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Paul didn't dance the hoochie coo either. Has about the same relevance, though.

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Exactly, they aren't the same.

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Give it up. You tried the "resurrection story was embellished by unknown authors" argument and you were soundly defeated by the fact that Paul affirmed the same thing. Now you're having to resort to the silly "Paul's letters aren't the same as the Gospels" argument that does absolutely nothing for anything.

You already thoroughly embarassed yourself with the "harmonizing different accounts creates a whole new account, different from the others" argument. People have tuned you out. You have utterly failed to drag others down into your sad belief system.

Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

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What "hate" are you referring to?

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1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

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Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

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A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

---

I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

---

Yes, you do go into that world. But unlike Jesus, you embrace it.

Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

---

I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

---

You are one incredibly ignorant piece of work .

So exactly which theology school did you graduate from old fella ?

Oh that's right…..other than admitting it wasn't Baylor ……you can't even bring yourself to own up to the truth.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:What nonsense! You have no idea of my life

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

---

I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

---

Yes, you do go into that world. But unlike Jesus, you embrace it.

---

Whart nonsense Pretending you know my life

Canada2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

---

I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

---

You are one incredibly ignorant piece of work .

So exactly which theology school did you graduate from old fella ?

Oh that's right…..other than admitting it wasn't Baylor ……you can't even bring yourself to own up to the truth.

---

You have attempted to doxx me before. I went to a Methodist Theological Seminary.

Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

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Coke Bear, a faction of the SBC is preaching hate right now:What nonsense! You have no idea of my life

https://www.washingtonpost.com/religion/2022/06/13/southern-baptists-john-macarthur/

---

What "hate" are you referring to?

---

1.The LGBTQ community, Sure, non denom loves gay but believe they are going to hell and will not enter the kingdom of their God.
2. women who abort babies, "Baby killers" is their epitaph for them that's hardly loving and certainly not true
3. African Americans, Look at southern churches who are ever so slow to integrate accept an African American preacher, or fight against the the systemic racism, still segregate their schools through private schools and underfund the public education, resist the Covid19 vaccine that kills Blacks at a higher rate than whites.
4. . women in general by abusing and raping them in their churches and turning a blind eye to it, keep them out of pulpits and leadership in local churches, force them to term of any, any pregnancy
5. People who disagree with them theologically and berate them and call them false prophets and teachers
That's my list for now.

---

Thanks for your opinions, but I asked the OP how hate was being preached specifically in the article she linked.

---

A rather broad and judgmental word --"How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?" John MacArthur

He simply made up these people. It's a straw man argument.

---

Here's where he said that, in context:

"You don't advance the kingdom of God by lining up with the kingdom of Satan," John MacArthur, a dean of conservative evangelical preaching, told the audience, referring to issues including the role of women and addressing racism. "You will never advance the kingdom of God by being popular with the world. If you think you will, you're doing the Devil's work. How can you negotiate with people who hate Christ, hate God, hate the Bible and hate the Gospel?"

He's referring to the "world" that is hostile to Jesus and his Gospel. Satan is the "god of this world". What he said is true, and it is fully supported biblically. So how is that "hate"? You must think citing biblical truths is hate. What kind of minister are you? Rather, I should ask, what side are you ministering for?

---

I go into the world of sinners like Jesus did.

---

Yes, you do go into that world. But unlike Jesus, you embrace it.

---

Whart nonsense Pretending you know my life

---

You've told us yourself. No one is pretending.

By the way you still haven't answered my question - do you control the molecules in your brain, or does physics?