BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

This is the verse before your citation. We are called to "test the spirits whether they are from God>'
I John is clear about the meaning of "from God." 'From God' goes to the heart of the nature of God which is "love." If a spirit fails that test then it is not of God.

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Read the entire passage. The way you test the spirits is if they confess that Jesus Christ is come (not "was come," past tense, but "is come," present tense) in the flesh. The passage is talking about those early Gnostics who taught that the resurrected Christ was not flesh but spirit.

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1-300/gnosticism-11629621.html

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

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I did and here it. is Sure confessing that Jesus is come is important (and I do) but the text is clear about the nature of God.

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Come.....in the flesh, right? So no, you don't.
The text is also quite clear about the physical nature of Jesus' resurrection too. But that doesn't stop you.

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Come in the flesh, lived in the flesh, and died in the flesh. Again the text is clear about the nature of God which you are ignoring.

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But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

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Stop telling me what I believe. I read the actual texts. Respond to me with your knowledge not what you "make up" about me.

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You told us what you believe. You told us you believe the scriptural claims of the nature of Jesus' resurrection body being physical isn't literal or real; so why do you believe the scriptural claims of the nature of God, that He is love and spirit, is literal and real?

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I have stated I am not a literalist like you. Jesus' resurrection is real.. He is real to me. Is Jesus not real to you? I think he is and how you see Jesus' reality is not physical.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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I John 4:1 Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.

This is the verse before your citation. We are called to "test the spirits whether they are from God>'
I John is clear about the meaning of "from God." 'From God' goes to the heart of the nature of God which is "love." If a spirit fails that test then it is not of God.

---

Read the entire passage. The way you test the spirits is if they confess that Jesus Christ is come (not "was come," past tense, but "is come," present tense) in the flesh. The passage is talking about those early Gnostics who taught that the resurrected Christ was not flesh but spirit.

https://www.christianity.com/church/church-history/timeline/1-300/gnosticism-11629621.html

Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world. 2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God: 3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

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I did and here it. is Sure confessing that Jesus is come is important (and I do) but the text is clear about the nature of God.

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Come.....in the flesh, right? So no, you don't.
The text is also quite clear about the physical nature of Jesus' resurrection too. But that doesn't stop you.

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Come in the flesh, lived in the flesh, and died in the flesh. Again the text is clear about the nature of God which you are ignoring.

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But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

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An event happened at the first Easter and many witness it. They all saw it differently - red the resurrection stories. I believe in the event and the witness of those first disciples. What do you believe in?

J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

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So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

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You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

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The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

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Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

fadskier said:

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Waco1947 said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Dusty "But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.


I Corinthians 15: 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures 5 and
that he appeared to Cephas, He appeared to Mary Magdalene First at the tomb. John
Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers and sisters to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

It's not "exactly as Paul wrote" Literalist and inerrancy folk run a foul of the actual scriptures.

PS There is no need to be ugly to TXS for his challenges.

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Do you really think I meant their accounts were going to be exactly the same? Good grief.

It means that Paul preached exactly what his disciples did, that Jesus was crucified, was dead, and was raised.

But, to humor you, where exactly do you see their accounts conflicting? This may be a fruitless endeavor to get you to understand, but what the hey.

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It make no sense to me to Paul says exactly what the gospels" then I show you passages where it not exact. You can't have it both ways. Your very argument seems to impinges on the word "exactly." Either it exact or it is not.
PS Stop putting me down by 'humoring me.' because it is not Christlike and you are a disciple.

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He did not say that the two accounts were exact. But since you lie and deceive all the time, you already knew that.

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Yes he did. "Paul says exactly what the gospels say"

Waco1947 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

Waco1947 said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Join up? As in, believe in God again?

Honestly, I stopped believing in a supernatural, all-knowing God for very different reasons, including the utter randomness that caused a family member to be born with profound handicaps. The platitudes about those horrific handicaps and their cost to my family-"God never gives you more than you can bear" - "Everything that happens is according to God's plan" - ultimately led me to conclude that there was no Plan and no God.

But "Christians" who feel entitled to bully and abuse anyone who doesn't share more their narrow beliefs don't make a positive case for Christianity, or a government based on "Christian" principles (like Ohio's Uncle Pervy bill mandating kids' genital inspections if a child is suspect of being trans--I mean, really?). Bullies and bigots are never attractive.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Join up? As in, believe in God again?

Honestly, I stopped believing in a supernatural, all-knowing God for very different reasons, including the utter randomness that caused a family member to be born with profound handicaps. The platitudes about those horrific handicaps and their cost to my family-"God never gives you more than you can bear" - "Everything that happens is according to God's plan" - ultimately led me to conclude that there was no Plan and no God.

But "Christians" who feel entitled to bully and abuse anyone who doesn't share more their narrow beliefs don't make a positive case for Christianity, or a government based on "Christian" principles (like Ohio's Uncle Pervy bill mandating kids' genital inspections if a child is suspect of being trans--I mean, really?). Bullies and bigots are never attractive.

---

I simply meant God is love and the posters here who accuse me are hateful. I was tongue in cheek.. I would certainly that those looking to "join up to the Christian faith" would find pause to join up.
Do me a favor and flag Canada for his lies about me.

Canada2017 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

Waco1947 said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Posters who have been here for years have READ your comments. They know exactly what you have bragged about......over and over.

Enjoy those cookies 'minister'.

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Posters who have been here for years have READ your comments. They know exactly what you have bragged about......over and over.

Enjoy those cookies 'minister'.

---

Again Flag Canada

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Join up? As in, believe in God again?

Honestly, I stopped believing in a supernatural, all-knowing God for very different reasons, including the utter randomness that caused a family member to be born with profound handicaps. The platitudes about those horrific handicaps and their cost to my family-"God never gives you more than you can bear" - "Everything that happens is according to God's plan" - ultimately led me to conclude that there was no Plan and no God.

But "Christians" who feel entitled to bully and abuse anyone who doesn't share more their narrow beliefs don't make a positive case for Christianity, or a government based on "Christian" principles (like Ohio's Uncle Pervy bill mandating kids' genital inspections if a child is suspect of being trans--I mean, really?). Bullies and bigots are never attractive.

---

I simply meant God is love and the posters here who accuse me are hateful. I was tongue in cheek.. I would certainly that those looking to "join up to the Christian faith" would find pause to join up.
Do me a favor and flag Canada for his lies about me.

---

Honestly, the best thing to do is ignore the guys whose conversation devolves into personal insults if your views don't line up lockstep with theirs. There are so many of those folks on this thread that I wonder how many of them really graduated from Baylor, since the religion classes there required better critical thinking skills than I see employed by many of the most "religious" posters here.

If there is a judgment day, I'm hoping you score extra days in hell or purgatory if you devoted a lot of your time to demeaning or abusing people on a posting board. And I also want to be a witness in the room when Paige Patterson comes before the judgment throne. That prospect makes me hope there really is judgment, and that it's a format like this:

J.B.Katz said:

---

First, I don't consider my church a waste of time. I have never considered church a waste of time. Anyone who is attending a church that's a waste of time should find another church. pronto.

I am frequently humbled by the sermons our pastor preaches. I go to church to learn and serve.

Second, your question implies that the only reason someone would want to do good in this lifetime is to earn a reward in the afterlife. I'm very uncomfortable with that motiviation for following whatever religious rules you believe are essential.

I am also very uncomfortable with telling people they need to be saved to avoid going to hell. If avoiding hell is all people want as the desired outcome and the main reason why they "accept Jesus," then their faith is self-serving and fear-motivated. I think love and service are healthier motivations.

You don't need to believe in God to want to serve others.

Or to cherish a strong belief that all of us are lucky to be here, and that we should strive to leave the campsite better than we found it so our children and grandchildren have better prospects for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Or at least as good as ours.

...

---

I'm sorry that you've lost your belief in God.

My questions, while maybe too specific, were meant in more of an existential manner ...

What is Good? Why do good if there is no God? Why not lead a utilitarian life maximizing pleasure?

These are more rhetoric questions for you.

Just to clarify from my earlier post, I'm not saying that one should believe in God to avoid hell. Not that it's wrong to do so. That is a form of imperfect contrition. Nor do I believe that one should believe to get things - God is not a divine, cosmic sugar-daddy. But I digress ...

I'm also sorry that you've had family issues that have contributed to this lack of belief.

I will not be trolled into your child/women abuse narrative again, but I will say that evil and sin exist in this fallen world. Similarly, we live in a world that is disordered with many afflictions like cancer, physical deformities, diseases, mental and psychological issues.

I do know that God would let these exist if He wouldn't allow a them for a greater good.

Lastly, you stated that you enjoy good sermons. Maybe you could contemplate on what Christ meant by picking up one's cross and carrying it daily. Jesus never promised us a rose garden on earth.

I wish you well in your journey and hope that you are able to come to believe in God again.

PS. Just because bad Christians exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't.

PPS. Finally, I would humbly suggest contemplating on what/who God is.

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

First, I don't consider my church a waste of time. I have never considered church a waste of time. Anyone who is attending a church that's a waste of time should find another church. pronto.

I am frequently humbled by the sermons our pastor preaches. I go to church to learn and serve.

Second, your question implies that the only reason someone would want to do good in this lifetime is to earn a reward in the afterlife. I'm very uncomfortable with that motiviation for following whatever religious rules you believe are essential.

I am also very uncomfortable with telling people they need to be saved to avoid going to hell. If avoiding hell is all people want as the desired outcome and the main reason why they "accept Jesus," then their faith is self-serving and fear-motivated. I think love and service are healthier motivations.

You don't need to believe in God to want to serve others.

Or to cherish a strong belief that all of us are lucky to be here, and that we should strive to leave the campsite better than we found it so our children and grandchildren have better prospects for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Or at least as good as ours.

...

---

I'm sorry that you've lost your belief in God.

My questions, while maybe too specific, were meant in more of an existential manner ...

What is Good? Why do good if there is no God? Why not lead a utilitarian life maximizing pleasure?

These are more rhetoric questions for you.

Just to clarify from my earlier post, I'm not saying that one should believe in God to avoid hell. Not that it's wrong to do so. That is a form of imperfect contrition. Nor do I believe that one should believe to get things - God is not a divine, cosmic sugar-daddy. But I digress ...

I'm also sorry that you've had family issues that have contributed to this lack of belief.

I will not be trolled into your child/women abuse narrative again, but I will say that evil and sin exist in this fallen world. Similarly, we live in a world that is disordered with many afflictions like cancer, physical deformities, diseases, mental and psychological issues.

I do know that God would let these exist if He wouldn't allow a them for a greater good.

Lastly, you stated that you enjoy good sermons. Maybe you could contemplate on what Christ meant by picking up one's cross and carrying it daily. Jesus never promised us a rose garden on earth.

I wish you well in your journey and hope that you are able to come to believe in God again.

PS. Just because bad Christians exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't.

PPS. Finally, I would humbly suggest contemplating on what/who God is.

---

I appreciate a thoughtful response.

But I am going to push back on your characterization of my mention of the horrific abuse that too many organized religions have both tolerated and covered up as "trolling."

And the Catholics and SBC aren't alone--remember the awful trial of Warren Jeffs at which an audiotape of him raping a 13-year-old kid he had just "married" as part of a public ceremony was played at the trial? Taliban operatives are currently beating women in Afghanistan for not covering their faces or forgetting to wear socks. Ulttraorthodox Jewish sects force women into arranged marriages as teens; there's a high rate of suicide among young Jewish women who are shunned by their families if they leave their faith, but sentenced to a life limited to a marraige arranged by their parents followed by endless childbearing if they remain in it. And God (literally) help the woman who can't conceive.

As long as religions don't acknowledge the extent of the abuse they allow and even enable and take visible, public, concrete actions to atone for that--and I haven't seen Catholics or Baptists do that, yet, and the FLDS, Taliban and Haredi feel entitled to perpetrate or cover up abuse in their ranks-they haven't truly repented.

Bringing that up is not "trolling."

It's a demand for accountability.

Abuse victims are the elephant in the room of many religions.

Because at the very least, a religion that claims to represent the ultimate force for good in the world should itself not be doing evil or covering it up or failing to acknowledge and be accountable for its past sins.

If there is a judgment, I'm accountable for my sins. I'm supposed to acknowledge them and repent.

Why should churches that believe that not set an example by practing what they preach?

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Oh hell no. You have happily sent many a soul to hell.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Oh hell no. You have happily sent many a soul to hell.

---

Hopefully no one has that kind of influence .

If I end up in hell, it will be my own fault .

Canada2017 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Oh hell no. You have happily sent many a soul to hell.

---

Hopefully no one has that kind of influence .

If I end up in hell, it will be my own fault .

---

But let us say you are wrestling with a major moral decision and seek the advice of your trusted minister and he tells you . . . that's 47.

GrowlTowel said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

GrowlTowel said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Hypocrite

By your own admission you have damaged dozens of women under your phony guise as a 'minister'.

Now you want pity ?

Where is your pity for all of those women ?

---

Other posters please flag Canada for his lies. The above is pure lies.

---

Oh hell no. You have happily sent many a soul to hell.

---

Hopefully no one has that kind of influence .

If I end up in hell, it will be my own fault .

---

But let us say you are wrestling with a major moral decision and seek the advice of your trusted minister and he tells you . . . that's 47.

---

It's all in God's hands .

Hopefully any woman who has gotten an abortion has found forgiveness and peace .

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

First, I don't consider my church a waste of time. I have never considered church a waste of time. Anyone who is attending a church that's a waste of time should find another church. pronto.

I am frequently humbled by the sermons our pastor preaches. I go to church to learn and serve.

Second, your question implies that the only reason someone would want to do good in this lifetime is to earn a reward in the afterlife. I'm very uncomfortable with that motiviation for following whatever religious rules you believe are essential.

I am also very uncomfortable with telling people they need to be saved to avoid going to hell. If avoiding hell is all people want as the desired outcome and the main reason why they "accept Jesus," then their faith is self-serving and fear-motivated. I think love and service are healthier motivations.

You don't need to believe in God to want to serve others.

Or to cherish a strong belief that all of us are lucky to be here, and that we should strive to leave the campsite better than we found it so our children and grandchildren have better prospects for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Or at least as good as ours.

...

---

I'm sorry that you've lost your belief in God.

My questions, while maybe too specific, were meant in more of an existential manner ...

What is Good? Why do good if there is no God? Why not lead a utilitarian life maximizing pleasure?

These are more rhetoric questions for you.

Just to clarify from my earlier post, I'm not saying that one should believe in God to avoid hell. Not that it's wrong to do so. That is a form of imperfect contrition. Nor do I believe that one should believe to get things - God is not a divine, cosmic sugar-daddy. But I digress ...

I'm also sorry that you've had family issues that have contributed to this lack of belief.

I will not be trolled into your child/women abuse narrative again, but I will say that evil and sin exist in this fallen world. Similarly, we live in a world that is disordered with many afflictions like cancer, physical deformities, diseases, mental and psychological issues.

I do know that God would let these exist if He wouldn't allow a them for a greater good.

Lastly, you stated that you enjoy good sermons. Maybe you could contemplate on what Christ meant by picking up one's cross and carrying it daily. Jesus never promised us a rose garden on earth.

I wish you well in your journey and hope that you are able to come to believe in God again.

PS. Just because bad Christians exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't.

PPS. Finally, I would humbly suggest contemplating on what/who God is.

---

P.S. I would not say I "lost" my belief in God.

I'd describe that as a slow fade.

What I "lost" was the belief that religion was a force for good. I now fear religion engenders a dangerous and harmful hubris. That's because of Christian / religious / Republican / conservative refusal to (1) accept the reality of climate change (which, unlike God, is not something you "believe" in or don't--it's happening, in real time, right now, visibly, (2) be honest about what's contributing to it and who it will impact, (3) be honest about how little we know about how climate on our planet really works and how our activities impact that rather than flatly refusing to look at any science exploring those impacts except the distinct minority of cranks that said we need do nothing or that there was nothing we could do, and (4) support working across party lines to make meaningful changes that will mean fewer deaths of starvation, heat, thirst and climate refugees who won't be welcome anywhere else once their land is arid or flooded.

We are about to find out how much damage people can do in 200 years and how many millenia it will take for the planet to correct that damage and whether the human race will survive the damage we've wrought by holding humanity as superior to all other life on the planet to the point of causing mass extinctions of animals, insects and plants that all worked together to make the planet habitable. For people who supposedly view God's creation with great awe, Christians sure have shown a total lack of respect for or interest in the systems they believe God set up to sustain that creation.

I'm also bothered this refusal was in part based either on a belief that the end times would come so the earth didn't matter or that God is in control of this hot mess we've created.

We are out of control. As a planet. As a nation. And Christians are pushing us further out of control rather than being a force for good or moderation or caring for life beyond Aemrican fetuses (most of the rest of the world isn't going to outlaw abortion--that's an American phenomenon) to a habitable planet for future generations. Hence, my original question. People who won't acknowledge climate change are not pro-life. They're pro-lie.

Waco1947 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Dusty "But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.


I Corinthians 15: 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures 5 and
that he appeared to Cephas, He appeared to Mary Magdalene First at the tomb. John
Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers and sisters to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

It's not "exactly as Paul wrote" Literalist and inerrancy folk run a foul of the actual scriptures.

PS There is no need to be ugly to TXS for his challenges.

---

Do you really think I meant their accounts were going to be exactly the same? Good grief.

It means that Paul preached exactly what his disciples did, that Jesus was crucified, was dead, and was raised.

But, to humor you, where exactly do you see their accounts conflicting? This may be a fruitless endeavor to get you to understand, but what the hey.

---

It make no sense to me to Paul says exactly what the gospels" then I show you passages where it not exact. You can't have it both ways. Your very argument seems to impinges on the word "exactly." Either it exact or it is not.
PS Stop putting me down by 'humoring me.' because it is not Christlike and you are a disciple.

---

He did not say that the two accounts were exact. But since you lie and deceive all the time, you already knew that.

---

Yes he did. "Paul says exactly what the gospels say"

---

and Paul did...but the two accounts do not have to be exact...

Waco1947 said:

---

Dusty "The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.


I Corinthians 15: 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures 5 and
that he appeared to Cephas, He appeared to Mary Magdalene First at the tomb. John
Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers and sisters to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

It's not "exactly as Paul wrote" Literalist and inerrancy folk run a foul of the actual scriptures.

PS There is no need to be ugly to TXS for his challenges.

---

The Stillwater News Press wrote a story that has some similarities to a story in The Waco Tribune Herald. Both stories were published on the same Sunday morning in December of 2021. Coincidentally, the Dallas Morning News wrote a story that borrowed from the other two stories as they have similarities to each but don't match either.

Proof positive of 3 complete fabrications.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

First, I don't consider my church a waste of time. I have never considered church a waste of time. Anyone who is attending a church that's a waste of time should find another church. pronto.

I am frequently humbled by the sermons our pastor preaches. I go to church to learn and serve.

Second, your question implies that the only reason someone would want to do good in this lifetime is to earn a reward in the afterlife. I'm very uncomfortable with that motiviation for following whatever religious rules you believe are essential.

I am also very uncomfortable with telling people they need to be saved to avoid going to hell. If avoiding hell is all people want as the desired outcome and the main reason why they "accept Jesus," then their faith is self-serving and fear-motivated. I think love and service are healthier motivations.

You don't need to believe in God to want to serve others.

Or to cherish a strong belief that all of us are lucky to be here, and that we should strive to leave the campsite better than we found it so our children and grandchildren have better prospects for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Or at least as good as ours.

...

---

I'm sorry that you've lost your belief in God.

My questions, while maybe too specific, were meant in more of an existential manner ...

What is Good? Why do good if there is no God? Why not lead a utilitarian life maximizing pleasure?

These are more rhetoric questions for you.

Just to clarify from my earlier post, I'm not saying that one should believe in God to avoid hell. Not that it's wrong to do so. That is a form of imperfect contrition. Nor do I believe that one should believe to get things - God is not a divine, cosmic sugar-daddy. But I digress ...

I'm also sorry that you've had family issues that have contributed to this lack of belief.

I will not be trolled into your child/women abuse narrative again, but I will say that evil and sin exist in this fallen world. Similarly, we live in a world that is disordered with many afflictions like cancer, physical deformities, diseases, mental and psychological issues.

I do know that God would let these exist if He wouldn't allow a them for a greater good.

Lastly, you stated that you enjoy good sermons. Maybe you could contemplate on what Christ meant by picking up one's cross and carrying it daily. Jesus never promised us a rose garden on earth.

I wish you well in your journey and hope that you are able to come to believe in God again.

PS. Just because bad Christians exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't.

PPS. Finally, I would humbly suggest contemplating on what/who God is.

---

P.S. I would not say I "lost" my belief in God.

I'd describe that as a slow fade.

What I "lost" was the belief that religion was a force for good. I now fear religion engenders a dangerous and harmful hubris. That's because of Christian / religious / Republican / conservative refusal to (1) accept the reality of climate change (which, unlike God, is not something you "believe" in or don't--it's happening, in real time, right now, visibly, (2) be honest about what's contributing to it and who it will impact, (3) be honest about how little we know about how climate on our planet really works and how our activities impact that rather than flatly refusing to look at any science exploring those impacts except the distinct minority of cranks that said we need do nothing or that there was nothing we could do, and (4) support working across party lines to make meaningful changes that will mean fewer deaths of starvation, heat, thirst and climate refugees who won't be welcome anywhere else once their land is arid or flooded.

We are about to find out how much damage people can do in 200 years and how many millenia it will take for the planet to correct that damage and whether the human race will survive the damage we've wrought by holding humanity as superior to all other life on the planet to the point of causing mass extinctions of animals, insects and plants that all worked together to make the planet habitable. For people who supposedly view God's creation with great awe, Christians sure have shown a total lack of respect for or interest in the systems they believe God set up to sustain that creation.

I'm also bothered this refusal was in part based either on a belief that the end times would come so the earth didn't matter or that God is in control of this hot mess we've created.

We are out of control. As a planet. As a nation. And Christians are pushing us further out of control rather than being a force for good or moderation or caring for life beyond Aemrican fetuses (most of the rest of the world isn't going to outlaw abortion--that's an American phenomenon) to a habitable planet for future generations. Hence, my original question. People who won't acknowledge climate change are not pro-life. They're pro-lie.

---

Although I share your concern about climate change .....one would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to consider the work of Catholic Charities as a force of good.

World wide, Catholic Charities helps hundreds of thousands of people every single day with food, shelter and ........( often ) medical care.

Waco1947 said:

---

fadskier said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Dusty "But how do you know God is spirit? You are getting this information from the text that you believe is all made up, right? I mean, if the text clearly indicates Jesus' resurrected body was physical, but you dismiss that as just a made up story, then how come the text saying God is spirit isn't made up as well?

He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.


I Corinthians 15: 3 For I handed on to you as of first importance what I in turn had received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the scriptures 4 and that he was buried and that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the scriptures 5 and
that he appeared to Cephas, He appeared to Mary Magdalene First at the tomb. John
Matthew 28:9 Suddenly Jesus met them and said, "Greetings!" And they came to him, took hold of his feet, and worshiped him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid; go and tell my brothers and sisters to go to Galilee; there they will see me."

It's not "exactly as Paul wrote" Literalist and inerrancy folk run a foul of the actual scriptures.

PS There is no need to be ugly to TXS for his challenges.

---

Do you really think I meant their accounts were going to be exactly the same? Good grief.

It means that Paul preached exactly what his disciples did, that Jesus was crucified, was dead, and was raised.

But, to humor you, where exactly do you see their accounts conflicting? This may be a fruitless endeavor to get you to understand, but what the hey.

---

It make no sense to me to Paul says exactly what the gospels" then I show you passages where it not exact. You can't have it both ways. Your very argument seems to impinges on the word "exactly." Either it exact or it is not.
PS Stop putting me down by 'humoring me.' because it is not Christlike and you are a disciple.

---

He did not say that the two accounts were exact. But since you lie and deceive all the time, you already knew that.

---

Yes he did. "Paul says exactly what the gospels say"

---

You are quoting me on that?
Good lord. You realize that quote from me doesn't exist?
You are arguing against something created in your head.

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

...


I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

---

Serious question... Why waste your time at a church if you don't believe in God?

What is the point in doing good? What does it matter if at the end of life we just die with no afterlife?

Why not maximize your money, power, material items?

---

her idea of good and Trump's idea of good are different but now, of equal value.

Thanks Jinxy, you have created a world where you, Golem, Hitler and Mother Teresa are all equal. Awesome job!

J.B.Katz said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

First, I don't consider my church a waste of time. I have never considered church a waste of time. Anyone who is attending a church that's a waste of time should find another church. pronto.

I am frequently humbled by the sermons our pastor preaches. I go to church to learn and serve.

Second, your question implies that the only reason someone would want to do good in this lifetime is to earn a reward in the afterlife. I'm very uncomfortable with that motiviation for following whatever religious rules you believe are essential.

I am also very uncomfortable with telling people they need to be saved to avoid going to hell. If avoiding hell is all people want as the desired outcome and the main reason why they "accept Jesus," then their faith is self-serving and fear-motivated. I think love and service are healthier motivations.

You don't need to believe in God to want to serve others.

Or to cherish a strong belief that all of us are lucky to be here, and that we should strive to leave the campsite better than we found it so our children and grandchildren have better prospects for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Or at least as good as ours.

...

---

I'm sorry that you've lost your belief in God.

My questions, while maybe too specific, were meant in more of an existential manner ...

What is Good? Why do good if there is no God? Why not lead a utilitarian life maximizing pleasure?

These are more rhetoric questions for you.

Just to clarify from my earlier post, I'm not saying that one should believe in God to avoid hell. Not that it's wrong to do so. That is a form of imperfect contrition. Nor do I believe that one should believe to get things - God is not a divine, cosmic sugar-daddy. But I digress ...

I'm also sorry that you've had family issues that have contributed to this lack of belief.

I will not be trolled into your child/women abuse narrative again, but I will say that evil and sin exist in this fallen world. Similarly, we live in a world that is disordered with many afflictions like cancer, physical deformities, diseases, mental and psychological issues.

I do know that God would let these exist if He wouldn't allow a them for a greater good.

Lastly, you stated that you enjoy good sermons. Maybe you could contemplate on what Christ meant by picking up one's cross and carrying it daily. Jesus never promised us a rose garden on earth.

I wish you well in your journey and hope that you are able to come to believe in God again.

PS. Just because bad Christians exist, it doesn't mean that God doesn't.

PPS. Finally, I would humbly suggest contemplating on what/who God is.

---

I appreciate a thoughtful response.

But I am going to push back on your characterization of my mention of the horrific abuse that too many organized religions have both tolerated and covered up as "trolling."

And the Catholics and SBC aren't alone--remember the awful trial of Warren Jeffs at which an audiotape of him raping a 13-year-old kid he had just "married" as part of a public ceremony was played at the trial? Taliban operatives are currently beating women in Afghanistan for not covering their faces or forgetting to wear socks. Ulttraorthodox Jewish sects force women into arranged marriages as teens; there's a high rate of suicide among young Jewish women who are shunned by their families if they leave their faith, but sentenced to a life limited to a marraige arranged by their parents followed by endless childbearing if they remain in it. And God (literally) help the woman who can't conceive.

As long as religions don't acknowledge the extent of the abuse they allow and even enable and take visible, public, concrete actions to atone for that--and I haven't seen Catholics or Baptists do that, yet, and the FLDS, Taliban and Haredi feel entitled to perpetrate or cover up abuse in their ranks-they haven't truly repented.

Bringing that up is not "trolling."

It's a demand for accountability.

Abuse victims are the elephant in the room of many religions.

Because at the very least, a religion that claims to represent the ultimate force for good in the world should itself not be doing evil or covering it up or failing to acknowledge and be accountable for its past sins.

If there is a judgment, I'm accountable for my sins. I'm supposed to acknowledge them and repent.

Why should churches that believe that not set an example by practing what they preach?

---

Churches are comprised of sinners. There should be accountability and SBC, Catholic and all church "organizations" should acknowledge their wrongdoings and repent of them.

The point I'm attempting to make is that the key here is a relationship with Jesus. The organized church can get in the way of a personal relationship with a selfless Jesus who offers salvation if we individually repent and follow him.

While church denominations/organizations serve a good purpose, I believe they at times cast a shadow too long and harm the calling Jesus has on our individual lives.

I hope we all can recognize the primacy of the relationship with God, through Jesus, over the relationship (and baggage) we can easily have with church organizations/denominations, remembering we are all sinners.

J.B.Katz said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey

---

Do these posters who hate and troll on me make yo9u want to join up?

---

Join up? As in, believe in God again?

Honestly, I stopped believing in a supernatural, all-knowing God for very different reasons, including the utter randomness that caused a family member to be born with profound handicaps. The platitudes about those horrific handicaps and their cost to my family-"God never gives you more than you can bear" - "Everything that happens is according to God's plan" - ultimately led me to conclude that there was no Plan and no God.

But "Christians" who feel entitled to bully and abuse anyone who doesn't share more their narrow beliefs don't make a positive case for Christianity, or a government based on "Christian" principles (like Ohio's Uncle Pervy bill mandating kids' genital inspections if a child is suspect of being trans--I mean, really?). Bullies and bigots are never attractive.

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Scripture NEVER says God will not give you more than you can handle. In fact, there is story after story after story where people are given more than they can handle and the only way they make it is by trusting God.

It's best that you don't believe in THAT god so you can learn about and learn to trust the God

Gideon says hello

J.B.Katz said:

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Why should churches that believe that not set an example by practing what they preach?

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They should be. I feel that the Catholic church should be leading by example. They are leading the world in reform. I've discussed this ad nauseam so I won't do down that trail again.


You quite frequently post about the abuse of children, women, and the suffering of others. Now it's a post about climate change.

I get extremely upset when I hear about these abuses in the Church. I get angry, frustrated, embarrassed, etc. I could choose to let fester and consume me, but I don't let it.

I don't dwell on the negative. I don't consume the depressing news. I focus on what is good, beautiful, and true - Christ and His Church.

It's all a matter of perspective.

Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

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So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

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You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

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The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

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clearly, you continue to beat the wind

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TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

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I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

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Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

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I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

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Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

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thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

fadskier said:

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TexasScientist said:

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fadskier said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

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I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

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I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

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How are they conflicting and unbelievable?

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Lay the text of the Gospels out side by side and go through the stories sequentially. They don't agree from the events leading up to, through the crucifixion, and after. You have to admit they are different and accept that they are different to be intellectually honest. You can rationalize it however you want, by saying they each were written at different times, by different authors, with a different message. But you have to admit they are not the same. They vary from each other. They all can't be right. I say they are unbelievable because there is no independent evidence to support the claims, and some of the claims require belief in the supernatural events from which there is no historical nor scientific verifiable evidence of support.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

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fadskier said:

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TexasScientist said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

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I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

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The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

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Sounds like you're trying to do the convincing. Paul didn't write all of the letters attributed to him. Biblical scholars will tell you that. You'll learn that at Baylor. Paul did write some letters, and those were before the Gospels we have were written. He never mentioned the miracles of the Gospels. You say he met and talked with Jesus' disciples. Don't you think that if he had heard of such supernatural events, he would have mentioned it. Come on. That would have been pretty important information to pass on about Jesus, who he was, and his message about Jesus, and Christianity. It's pretty clear and logical that Paul didn't know about the miracle stories, which obviously evolved later.

J.B.Katz said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

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I've been happier since I stopped believing in God.

The world is a very dark place right now. Legislators in some states view 2nd Amendment rights as so absolute they are unmoved by massacres of elementary school kids, teachers and mothers and grandmothers shopping for groceries, while touting laws that allow government inspection of the genitals of children, a level of creepy that should bother anybody who claims to be a proponent of small government. (And doesn't the 4th amendment prohibit unreasonable searches? If inspecting the genitals of a kid isn't an unreasonable search, nothing else in the constitution is worth the paper it's written on.)

That makes me fear for the future of American democracy, and many people no longer care if we are a democracy--they just want their hate-fueled ideology to dominate and follow a man whose bitter contempt toward everyone, including his supporters, is somehow an attraction. And many do this while also claiming to follow Jesus Christ, whose ethic was a love and a call to live in community with the poor and meek that was and still is radical. Jesus is the antithesis of Donald Trump. Can you imagine him at Mar A Lago?

The idea that God would preside over endless mass-murder touted as a necessary evil by people who loudly claim to be Christian and pro-life is much more depressing than what I think is the truth: We make and choose our own purpose and fate, and there will be no deus ex machina to bail us out if we make the planet unlivable for most people, which we're on target to do.

My simple goal was to leave the campsite better than I found it. Given the current political environment and the fact that a significant portion of the U.S. population is allergic to facts, like climate change is real and Trump lost the election, there's nothing I can do about that.

Except what I learned in church: Try to treat other people the way I'd like them to treat me and try to love my neighbor. I chose my current church because it offers lots of service opportunities and it challenges people to live in a community that extends beyond the church walls, the denomination and political beliefs. Those are hard challenges, and I fail everyday. But getting up every day and trying to do better is my form of faith. It is the ethic I learned in church as a child.

(Cue the snarky suggestions that I walk everywhere and live in a cave with no electricity, as if I can single-handedly change the fate of the planet. I have to live and work in the society we have, and until we have the will to work together to keep the planet livable, that means small changes and thoughtful choices about food and travel instead of moving off the grid and eating locusts and honey.)

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The "good Christians" on this board are intolerant of anyone who expresses views, which don't conform to the views they are desparately wanting to believe.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Canada2017 said:

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TexasScientist said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

clearly, you continue to beat the wind

---

TS has been looking for answers with which to massage his fears for a long time .

Never accepted the answers available as worthwhile..........so the fears remain .



Resulting in persistent attacks on faith and the peace it provides.


Cause when all else fails.............misery demands company .

---

I suspect I'm a lot less miserable than you. I'm not fearful at all. I accept the evidence of reality.

---

Strongly doubt it .

Years of obsessive attacks on the exact same target is not rational behavior.

Clearly something is eating you.

---

I'm just giving you an alternative view that is no longer wrapped in years of religious indoctrination and mythology. That seems to bother you, because you suspect it is true. It is something you don't want to accept, and are unwilling to accept, because it goes against what you were raised to believe, reinforced to believe, and want to believe.

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thank you for the information. We'll take it under advisement. Have a good day. Don't call us. Well call you.

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^^ Spoken from a good Christian.

TexasScientist said:

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Lay the text of the Gospels out side by side and go through the stories sequentially. They don't agree from the events leading up to, through the crucifixion, and after. You have to admit they are different and accept that they are different to be intellectually honest. You can rationalize it however you want, by saying they each were written at different times, by different authors, with a different message. But you have to admit they are not the same. They vary from each other. They all can't be right. I say they are unbelievable because there is no independent evidence to support the claims, and some of the claims require belief in the supernatural events from which there is no historical nor scientific verifiable evidence of support.

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Have you honestly researched these? Not just regurgitated comments from atheists websites?

I've recommended a book to you called Hard Sayings: A Catholic Approach to Answering Bible Difficulties on at least 2 or 3 posts here.

This addresses with scholarship (not just opinion) on many of the difficult passages and those apparent contradictions, like you mention.

For instance, John mentions that Mary Magdalene going to the tomb at dark and Mark mentions several women that arrived in the early morning. What appears to be a contradiction of time and people really isn't. John choose to emphasize Mary Magdalene and when she departed. Mark choose to focus on all the women that arrived at the tomb in the early morning.

I will give you my copy of the book, if you promise to read it with an open mind. I'll buy another copy for myself later.

TexasScientist said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

fadskier said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

---

Yes, new. His old one was perishable. And I'm pretty sure appearing and disappearing in thin air was a new feature. Also, remember he wasn't in his glorified state yet.

---

So, he was in a decaying transcendental zombie state with holes either in Jerusalem or Galilee, depending upon who tells the story?

---

You can try to understand or, you can try to be obstinate. Either way, is speaks volumes about you.

---

The only thing appearing out of thin air is this story. If Jesus got up and walked out of a tomb, then he was resurrected, and if he was walking around with holes in him for Thomas et al to see, then that was his resurrected state. Clearly over time, the stories became more and more miraculous in order to sell the overall message and bolster the disillusioned.

---

I'm confused. What exactly are you saying? Respectfully.

---

I'm saying the crucifixion stories are conflicting, and they are unbelievable. They were written years later by unknown authors taken from retold and embellished oral stories, in order to bolster and promote the message of the author.

---

The crucifixion and resurrection as told in the Gospels is exactly what the Apostle Paul proclaimed. He met and talked with Jesus' disciples IN PERSON. His letters we have today were written BY HIM. They weren't embellished oral stories.

You have nothing, but the really sad part is you don't care. You'll continue to repeat this brainless stuff over and over again as if you're really trying to convince yourself, more than to convince others.

---

Sounds like you're trying to do the convincing. Paul didn't write all of the letters attributed to him. Biblical scholars will tell you that. You'll learn that at Baylor. Paul did write some letters, and those were before the Gospels we have were written. He never mentioned the miracles of the Gospels. You say he met and talked with Jesus' disciples. Don't you think that if he had heard of such supernatural events, he would have mentioned it. Come on. That would have been pretty important information to pass on about Jesus, who he was, and his message about Jesus, and Christianity. It's pretty clear and logical that Paul didn't know about the miracle stories, which obviously evolved later.

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In the letters that ALL scholars agree Paul wrote, he proclaims the crucifixion, death, and the miracle of his resurrection.

You'll forever have to deal with that fact. You lose.

And yes, we all noticed that you had to switch your argument from the account of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection to the account of all his other miracles, when you realized that you had lost. You are so dishonest, It's pathetic. But thanks for writing that, for all to see.