This is Tom Horne. He’s likely to be the next Superintendent of Public Education for the State of Arizona, beating incumbent Democrat Kathy Hoffman by 7,300 votes so far.

He campaigned on opposing CRT, DEI, bilingual education, and ethnic studies programs. pic.twitter.com/A3gISEmfR1

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

Lake doesn't know who won the 2020 presidential election. She isn't very smart

He Hate Me said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Lake doesn't know who won the 2020 presidential election. She isn't very smart

---

But she knows what a woman is. That makes her smarter than any Democrat.

---

Cold comfort
Show her what she won

Redbrickbear said:

---

Remember Rachel Mitchell? She was the Republican lawyer who questioned Christine Blasely Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings.

She won the Maricopa County Attorney election by six points. pic.twitter.com/1eU4LKcQYX

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

How RED was Arizona in 2022?

☑️ GOP beat Dems in House races by 6%
☑️ GOP take 6/9 House seats, FLIP 2 seats
☑️ GOP take 16/28 State Senate seats
☑️ Yee (Treasurer) outperforms Lake by 5%, Masters by 9%
☑️ Hobbs (D) takes Governor, Kelly (D) takes Senator

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) November 15, 2022

---

It is the candidates. In Florida, red swept up and down. Bad or wacko MAGA lost or struggled.

Osodecentx said:

---

He Hate Me said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Lake doesn't know who won the 2020 presidential election. She isn't very smart

---

But she knows what a woman is. That makes her smarter than any Democrat.

---

Cold comfort
Show her what she won

---

Osadecentex doesn't care much for her. So there's that.

Wanted to ask Red and a few others that didnt think McCain was ok if the voted for Obama or just sat out the election?

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Remember Rachel Mitchell? She was the Republican lawyer who questioned Christine Blasely Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings.

She won the Maricopa County Attorney election by six points. pic.twitter.com/1eU4LKcQYX

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

How RED was Arizona in 2022?

☑️ GOP beat Dems in House races by 6%
☑️ GOP take 6/9 House seats, FLIP 2 seats
☑️ GOP take 16/28 State Senate seats
☑️ Yee (Treasurer) outperforms Lake by 5%, Masters by 9%
☑️ Hobbs (D) takes Governor, Kelly (D) takes Senator

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) November 15, 2022

---

That's what's known as the break. People broke for non Trump candidates and against Trump aligned candidates. It happened all over the place. Despite many of us saying to move away from Trump months ago, it pretty much broke as feared.

---

Not "people."

McCainiacs. Moderate AZ Republicans. They've been crossing over ever since the conservative wing of the GOP took over the AZ GOP. Newspapers in AZ full of calls by moderate GOPers to replace Kelli Ward as chairman.

So Oso donates money to Liz Cheney, who goes out and campaigns for the Dem ticket on AZ, mobilizing the AZ moderate GOP wing to split tickets to defeat the statewide candidates. Those candidates lose, narrowly. So obviously it's the conservatives fault that statewide candidates lost.

See how this works?

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Remember Rachel Mitchell? She was the Republican lawyer who questioned Christine Blasely Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings.

She won the Maricopa County Attorney election by six points. pic.twitter.com/1eU4LKcQYX

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

How RED was Arizona in 2022?

☑️ GOP beat Dems in House races by 6%
☑️ GOP take 6/9 House seats, FLIP 2 seats
☑️ GOP take 16/28 State Senate seats
☑️ Yee (Treasurer) outperforms Lake by 5%, Masters by 9%
☑️ Hobbs (D) takes Governor, Kelly (D) takes Senator

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) November 15, 2022

---

That's what's known as the break. People broke for non Trump candidates and against Trump aligned candidates. It happened all over the place. Despite many of us saying to move away from Trump months ago, it pretty much broke as feared.

---

Not "people."

McCainiacs. Moderate AZ Republicans. They've been crossing over ever since the conservative wing of the GOP took over the AZ GOP. Newspapers in AZ full of calls by moderate GOPers to replace Kelli Ward as chairman.

So Oso donates money to Liz Cheney, who goes out and campaigns for the Dem ticket on AZ, mobilizing the AZ moderate GOP wing to split tickets to defeat the statewide candidates. Those candidates lose, narrowly. So obviously it's the conservatives fault that statewide candidates lost.

See how this works?

---

People who chose to vote for Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger and not Hershel Walker aren't "McCainiacs". There were significant breaks in AZ house races and Kari Lake in common precincts. Oddly enough even Biggs and Lake had a significant break, and he definitely is no McCaniac.

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Remember Rachel Mitchell? She was the Republican lawyer who questioned Christine Blasely Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings.

She won the Maricopa County Attorney election by six points. pic.twitter.com/1eU4LKcQYX

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

How RED was Arizona in 2022?

☑️ GOP beat Dems in House races by 6%
☑️ GOP take 6/9 House seats, FLIP 2 seats
☑️ GOP take 16/28 State Senate seats
☑️ Yee (Treasurer) outperforms Lake by 5%, Masters by 9%
☑️ Hobbs (D) takes Governor, Kelly (D) takes Senator

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) November 15, 2022

---

That's what's known as the break. People broke for non Trump candidates and against Trump aligned candidates. It happened all over the place. Despite many of us saying to move away from Trump months ago, it pretty much broke as feared.

---

Not "people."

McCainiacs. Moderate AZ Republicans. They've been crossing over ever since the conservative wing of the GOP took over the AZ GOP. Newspapers in AZ full of calls by moderate GOPers to replace Kelli Ward as chairman.

So Oso donates money to Liz Cheney, who goes out and campaigns for the Dem ticket on AZ, mobilizing the AZ moderate GOP wing to split tickets to defeat the statewide candidates. Those candidates lose, narrowly. So obviously it's the conservatives fault that statewide candidates lost.

See how this works?

---

People who chose to vote for Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger and not Hershel Walker aren't "McCainiacs". There were significant breaks in AZ house races and Kari Lake in common precincts. Oddly enough even Biggs and Lake had a significant break, and he definitely is no McCaniac.

---

The Libertarian pulled about 2% in Georgia. Do those people vote for either viable candidate if the Libertarian party runs no one?

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

She definitely misread the room. She was a good candidate but got seduced by the Trump Crazy Train.

He Hate Me said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

whiterock said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Redbrickbear said:

---

Remember Rachel Mitchell? She was the Republican lawyer who questioned Christine Blasely Ford during the Kavanaugh hearings.

She won the Maricopa County Attorney election by six points. pic.twitter.com/1eU4LKcQYX

— Ryan James Girdusky (@RyanGirdusky) November 15, 2022

How RED was Arizona in 2022?

☑️ GOP beat Dems in House races by 6%
☑️ GOP take 6/9 House seats, FLIP 2 seats
☑️ GOP take 16/28 State Senate seats
☑️ Yee (Treasurer) outperforms Lake by 5%, Masters by 9%
☑️ Hobbs (D) takes Governor, Kelly (D) takes Senator

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE.

— Kyle Becker (@kylenabecker) November 15, 2022

---

That's what's known as the break. People broke for non Trump candidates and against Trump aligned candidates. It happened all over the place. Despite many of us saying to move away from Trump months ago, it pretty much broke as feared.

---

Not "people."

McCainiacs. Moderate AZ Republicans. They've been crossing over ever since the conservative wing of the GOP took over the AZ GOP. Newspapers in AZ full of calls by moderate GOPers to replace Kelli Ward as chairman.

So Oso donates money to Liz Cheney, who goes out and campaigns for the Dem ticket on AZ, mobilizing the AZ moderate GOP wing to split tickets to defeat the statewide candidates. Those candidates lose, narrowly. So obviously it's the conservatives fault that statewide candidates lost.

See how this works?

---

People who chose to vote for Brian Kemp and Brad Raffensperger and not Hershel Walker aren't "McCainiacs". There were significant breaks in AZ house races and Kari Lake in common precincts. Oddly enough even Biggs and Lake had a significant break, and he definitely is no McCaniac.

---

The Libertarian pulled about 2% in Georgia. Do those people vote for either viable candidate if the Libertarian party runs no one?

---

Many of those votes I believe are related to a "none of the above" decision more than the LP's candidates. Many if not most of those won't show up in the runoff.

TenBears said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

The AZ Bush/McCain Republicans are loving on Katie Hobbs.

We can dump Trump...but we absolutely CAN"T go back to neocons.

---

100% spot on.

---

Thanks!

Neocons and democrats are like voting for the same thing.

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

---

Well, you did send Cheney money, and she did use it to help defeat some of those candidates you didn't like, so don't try to hide behind platitudes of disappointment.

Our candidates weren't the problem. They were outspent by as much as 10-1, in no small part because our Senate Leader signaled to the donor class that there was a problem with candidate quality. Far greater critique could be made of Democrat candidates: Pale reflections like Murray, Hobbs, Hassan; wild eyed ideologues like Barnes and Warnock; and on what candidate could Fetterman be considered (by Republicans) a superior candidate to a well-spoken world-famous doctor like Oz? ALL of those equally (or more) flawed candidates were beatable had we had proper and well-funded campaign plans.

Excerpt from excellent article at link:
"The anti-right narrative is a remarkable thing: when a candidate Trump supported lost, like Oz in PA, it was Trump's fault; when a candidate Trump opposed lost, like Joe O'Dea in CO, it was Trump's fault. When a candidate Trump supported won, like Vance in OH, pundits discounted the victory; when a candidate Trump opposed won, like Kemp in GA, the same pundits found it enormously significant. DeSantis's nearly 20-point margin of victory in FL, a big win for the right, was mostly hyped as a defeat for Trump, even though FL is Trump's home base."
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/this-election-was-no-loss-for-trump/

To that last observation about DeSantis, we must note uncontestable facts: DeSantis was a founding member of the "Freedom Caucus" in the House. you know, the place where the MTG-types plot & plan how to move the GOP caucus rightward. Further, Desantis literally owes his first election victory to Trump, whose endorsement elevated him out of a crowded primary field. So Trump's endorsements are hardly a badge of dishonor. And we cannot ignore that DeSantis is not anti-MAGA. He's proto-Maga. Not a rejection of the original, but a new, improved version of it. Finally a word about last Tuesday that is material but thus far overlooked: I'm as excited as anyone about the DeSantis victory. But what was the quality of the candidate he faced? A grey'd out shape-shifter who is now 3 wins, 5 losses in statewide races run on the ticket of both parties - neither liberal enough to enervate Dems,nor conservative enough to enervate conservatives. How many "notional points" did he add to DeSantis's win total? (answer: probably more than the notional "-2.something points" sombear's WDC connections indicated applied to GOP senate candidates.) So yes, Desantis's victory was impressive and cannot be said he beat up on a teddy bear. But neither was it a clash of titans....

Here's the cold hard reality:
There were wins and losses last Tuesday.
Establishment Republicans made no progress in moving the GOP leftward.
The realignment of the GOP as a multi-racial working class party continues.
It cannot be stopped.
Ball is in your court.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

---

Well, you did send Cheney money, and she did use it to help defeat some of those candidates you didn't like, so don't try to hide behind platitudes of disappointment.

Our candidates weren't the problem. They were outspent by as much as 10-1, in no small part because our Senate Leader signaled to the donor class that there was a problem with candidate quality. Far greater critique could be made of Democrat candidates: Pale reflections like Murray, Hobbs, Hassan; wild eyed ideologues like Barnes and Warnock; and on what candidate could Fetterman be considered (by Republicans) a superior candidate to a well-spoken world-famous doctor like Oz? ALL of those equally (or more) flawed candidates were beatable had we had proper and well-funded campaign plans.

Excerpt from excellent article at link:
"The anti-right narrative is a remarkable thing: when a candidate Trump supported lost, like Oz in PA, it was Trump's fault; when a candidate Trump opposed lost, like Joe O'Dea in CO, it was Trump's fault. When a candidate Trump supported won, like Vance in OH, pundits discounted the victory; when a candidate Trump opposed won, like Kemp in GA, the same pundits found it enormously significant. DeSantis's nearly 20-point margin of victory in FL, a big win for the right, was mostly hyped as a defeat for Trump, even though FL is Trump's home base."
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/this-election-was-no-loss-for-trump/

To that last observation about DeSantis, we must note uncontestable facts: DeSantis was a founding member of the "Freedom Caucus" in the House. you know, the place where the MTG-types plot & plan how to move the GOP caucus rightward. Further, Desantis literally owes his first election victory to Trump, whose endorsement elevated him out of a crowded primary field. So Trump's endorsements are hardly a badge of dishonor. And we cannot ignore that DeSantis is not anti-MAGA. He's proto-Maga. Not a rejection of the original, but a new, improved version of it. Finally a word about last Tuesday that is material but thus far overlooked: I'm as excited as anyone about the DeSantis victory. But what was the quality of the candidate he faced? A grey'd out shape-shifter who is now 3 wins, 5 losses in statewide races run on the ticket of both parties - neither liberal enough to enervate Dems,nor conservative enough to enervate conservatives. How many "notional points" did he add to DeSantis's win total? (answer: probably more than the notional "-2.something points" sombear's WDC connections indicated applied to GOP senate candidates.) So yes, Desantis's victory was impressive and cannot be said he beat up on a teddy bear. But neither was it a clash of titans....

Here's the cold hard reality:
There were wins and losses last Tuesday.
Establishment Republicans made no progress in moving the GOP leftward.
The realignment of the GOP as a multi-racial working class party continues.
It cannot be stopped.
Ball is in your court.

---

I am confused with one thing, you seem convinced anyone that believes that MAGA is bad for the future of the GOP is trying to move the Party left? I don't get that.

• Trying to open the party to be more inclusive,
• Trying to have the party by less dark,
• Trying to get away from fear politics,
• Trying to get back to a Reagan-esque view of the world?

All guilty as charged, but further left? No. Policies are fine (Granted, there are always tweaks including whether to work more within the system or blow it up. ), it is the way that the MAGA group operates that is the problem.

GOP has some nice winners, Trump attacks them and tries to discredit them. That summarized the problem to me. There is no Team GOP, either you are Trump or you will be attacked and discredited. That is not the conservative Party I signed up for.

RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

---

Well, you did send Cheney money, and she did use it to help defeat some of those candidates you didn't like, so don't try to hide behind platitudes of disappointment.

Our candidates weren't the problem. They were outspent by as much as 10-1, in no small part because our Senate Leader signaled to the donor class that there was a problem with candidate quality. Far greater critique could be made of Democrat candidates: Pale reflections like Murray, Hobbs, Hassan; wild eyed ideologues like Barnes and Warnock; and on what candidate could Fetterman be considered (by Republicans) a superior candidate to a well-spoken world-famous doctor like Oz? ALL of those equally (or more) flawed candidates were beatable had we had proper and well-funded campaign plans.

Excerpt from excellent article at link:
"The anti-right narrative is a remarkable thing: when a candidate Trump supported lost, like Oz in PA, it was Trump's fault; when a candidate Trump opposed lost, like Joe O'Dea in CO, it was Trump's fault. When a candidate Trump supported won, like Vance in OH, pundits discounted the victory; when a candidate Trump opposed won, like Kemp in GA, the same pundits found it enormously significant. DeSantis's nearly 20-point margin of victory in FL, a big win for the right, was mostly hyped as a defeat for Trump, even though FL is Trump's home base."
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/this-election-was-no-loss-for-trump/

To that last observation about DeSantis, we must note uncontestable facts: DeSantis was a founding member of the "Freedom Caucus" in the House. you know, the place where the MTG-types plot & plan how to move the GOP caucus rightward. Further, Desantis literally owes his first election victory to Trump, whose endorsement elevated him out of a crowded primary field. So Trump's endorsements are hardly a badge of dishonor. And we cannot ignore that DeSantis is not anti-MAGA. He's proto-Maga. Not a rejection of the original, but a new, improved version of it. Finally a word about last Tuesday that is material but thus far overlooked: I'm as excited as anyone about the DeSantis victory. But what was the quality of the candidate he faced? A grey'd out shape-shifter who is now 3 wins, 5 losses in statewide races run on the ticket of both parties - neither liberal enough to enervate Dems,nor conservative enough to enervate conservatives. How many "notional points" did he add to DeSantis's win total? (answer: probably more than the notional "-2.something points" sombear's WDC connections indicated applied to GOP senate candidates.) So yes, Desantis's victory was impressive and cannot be said he beat up on a teddy bear. But neither was it a clash of titans....

Here's the cold hard reality:
There were wins and losses last Tuesday.
Establishment Republicans made no progress in moving the GOP leftward.
The realignment of the GOP as a multi-racial working class party continues.
It cannot be stopped.
Ball is in your court.

---

I am confused with one thing, you seem convinced anyone that believes that MAGA is bad for the future of the GOP is trying to move the Party left? I don't get that.

• Trying to open the party to be more inclusive,
• Trying to have the party by less dark,
• Trying to get away from fear politics,
• Trying to get back to a Reagan-esque view of the world?

All guilty as charged, but further left? No. Policies are fine (Granted, there are always tweaks including whether to work more within the system or blow it up. ), it is the way that the MAGA group operates that is the problem.

GOP has some nice winners, Trump attacks them and tries to discredit them. That summarized the problem to me. There is no Team GOP, either you are Trump or you will be attacked and discredited. That is not the conservative Party I signed up for.

---

I don't have to argue that MAGA is more inclusive, data show it. Look at the demographic shifts in party support that have occurred since Trump entered politics. Sustained gains in constituencies traditionally problematic for the GOP. The fundamental macro-dynamic is that upper-class whites are moving left, while working class whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians are all moving right....double digit moves toward the GOP the last three cycles. There is a realignment happening that will shatter the Dem coalition.

Similarly, the GOP does not have a problem with dark, fearful messaging. It's the Democrats who are talking about their opponents being proto-fascists, this-or-that-aphobes, etc...."threat to democracy." Politics is a tough game, and when times are hard, the politics tend to get tougher. Somebody has to be held accountable for the difficulties we're in. The time for the uplifting messages are when times are good. (and what part of "where woke comes to die" fits the "shining city on the hill" imagery?)

Trump has a very Reaganesque view of the world - American Exceptionalism. What he does not have is the disarming, folksy delivery. He's a brass knuckles New Yorker who pokes back. The messaging is unequal, or perhaps undisciplined is a better word. In any event, it is certainly jarring to those of us who came of age in the Reagan years, but Trump very much fights for American Exceptionalism and uses the word "our" a lot in positive messaging. It's why he has such appeal in blue-collarville.

Trump's attacks the day after the election were just campaigning. And I think they harmed him a bit. Negative campaigning almost always does have collateral damage. But they were necessary to let everyone know that he was not going to take sole blame for the outcome. Other hands were more directly involved, and those other hands would get burned, too if they wanted to play the blame game. A week later, and we are not seeing public spats. The battle for control of the party is mostly back where it belonged - below the surface. Could he have done it better? Sure. One can always hindsight stuff like that. But it was definitely effective. He threw down the gauntlet: "Ok, Mitch, do you really want to have this fight now, today? before you're re-elected as Leader? How much blood do you want on your suit, buddy?" And the waters now are calm. No victors or incumbents are engaging in the neverTrump nonsense. The ripples only visible in the chattering classes.

Trump is a survivor. Do not miscalculate that he will just fade away. He will be a very, very tough out.

whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

---

Well, you did send Cheney money, and she did use it to help defeat some of those candidates you didn't like, so don't try to hide behind platitudes of disappointment.

Our candidates weren't the problem. They were outspent by as much as 10-1, in no small part because our Senate Leader signaled to the donor class that there was a problem with candidate quality. Far greater critique could be made of Democrat candidates: Pale reflections like Murray, Hobbs, Hassan; wild eyed ideologues like Barnes and Warnock; and on what candidate could Fetterman be considered (by Republicans) a superior candidate to a well-spoken world-famous doctor like Oz? ALL of those equally (or more) flawed candidates were beatable had we had proper and well-funded campaign plans.

Excerpt from excellent article at link:
"The anti-right narrative is a remarkable thing: when a candidate Trump supported lost, like Oz in PA, it was Trump's fault; when a candidate Trump opposed lost, like Joe O'Dea in CO, it was Trump's fault. When a candidate Trump supported won, like Vance in OH, pundits discounted the victory; when a candidate Trump opposed won, like Kemp in GA, the same pundits found it enormously significant. DeSantis's nearly 20-point margin of victory in FL, a big win for the right, was mostly hyped as a defeat for Trump, even though FL is Trump's home base."
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/this-election-was-no-loss-for-trump/

To that last observation about DeSantis, we must note uncontestable facts: DeSantis was a founding member of the "Freedom Caucus" in the House. you know, the place where the MTG-types plot & plan how to move the GOP caucus rightward. Further, Desantis literally owes his first election victory to Trump, whose endorsement elevated him out of a crowded primary field. So Trump's endorsements are hardly a badge of dishonor. And we cannot ignore that DeSantis is not anti-MAGA. He's proto-Maga. Not a rejection of the original, but a new, improved version of it. Finally a word about last Tuesday that is material but thus far overlooked: I'm as excited as anyone about the DeSantis victory. But what was the quality of the candidate he faced? A grey'd out shape-shifter who is now 3 wins, 5 losses in statewide races run on the ticket of both parties - neither liberal enough to enervate Dems,nor conservative enough to enervate conservatives. How many "notional points" did he add to DeSantis's win total? (answer: probably more than the notional "-2.something points" sombear's WDC connections indicated applied to GOP senate candidates.) So yes, Desantis's victory was impressive and cannot be said he beat up on a teddy bear. But neither was it a clash of titans....

Here's the cold hard reality:
There were wins and losses last Tuesday.
Establishment Republicans made no progress in moving the GOP leftward.
The realignment of the GOP as a multi-racial working class party continues.
It cannot be stopped.
Ball is in your court.

---

I am confused with one thing, you seem convinced anyone that believes that MAGA is bad for the future of the GOP is trying to move the Party left? I don't get that.

• Trying to open the party to be more inclusive,
• Trying to have the party by less dark,
• Trying to get away from fear politics,
• Trying to get back to a Reagan-esque view of the world?

All guilty as charged, but further left? No. Policies are fine (Granted, there are always tweaks including whether to work more within the system or blow it up. ), it is the way that the MAGA group operates that is the problem.

GOP has some nice winners, Trump attacks them and tries to discredit them. That summarized the problem to me. There is no Team GOP, either you are Trump or you will be attacked and discredited. That is not the conservative Party I signed up for.

---

I don't have to argue that MAGA is more inclusive, data show it. Look at the demographic shifts in party support that have occurred since Trump entered politics. Sustained gains in constituencies traditionally problematic for the GOP. The fundamental macro-dynamic is that upper-class whites are moving left, while working class whites, blacks, hispanics, and asians are all moving right....double digit moves toward the GOP the last three cycles. There is a realignment happening that will shatter the Dem coalition.

Similarly, the GOP does not have a problem with dark, fearful messaging. It's the Democrats who are talking about their opponents being proto-fascists, this-or-that-aphobes, etc...."threat to democracy." Politics is a tough game, and when times are hard, the politics tend to get tougher. Somebody has to be held accountable for the difficulties we're in. The time for the uplifting messages are when times are good. (and what part of "where woke comes to die" fits the "shining city on the hill" imagery?)

Trump has a very Reaganesque view of the world - American Exceptionalism. What he does not have is the disarming, folksy delivery. He's a brass knuckles New Yorker who pokes back. The messaging is unequal, or perhaps undisciplined is a better word. In any event, it is certainly jarring to those of us who came of age in the Reagan years, but Trump very much fights for American Exceptionalism and uses the word "our" a lot in positive messaging. It's why he has such appeal in blue-collarville.

Trump's attacks the day after the election were just campaigning. And I think they harmed him a bit. Negative campaigning almost always does have collateral damage. But they were necessary to let everyone know that he was not going to take sole blame for the outcome. Other hands were more directly involved, and those other hands would get burned, too if they wanted to play the blame game. A week later, and we are not seeing public spats. The battle for control of the party is mostly back where it belonged - below the surface. Could he have done it better? Sure. One can always hindsight stuff like that. But it was definitely effective. He threw down the gauntlet: "Ok, Mitch, do you really want to have this fight now, today? before you're re-elected as Leader? How much blood do you want on your suit, buddy?" And the waters now are calm. No victors or incumbents are engaging in the neverTrump nonsense. The ripples only visible in the chattering classes.

Trump is a survivor. Do not miscalculate that he will just fade away. He will be a very, very tough out.

---

You keep talking facts and data That is totally separate from reality. Perception and the use of the media is working AGAINST MAGA. It is political death for candidates to align with MAGA going forward. Policies may be the same, but if you come out for Trump you are in trouble with moderates, independents and women. I have talked to people who have run and won last week. Trump's antics have basically taken all the facts you mention and made them moot. Best case for the GOP is to be conservative but not be seen as being a die hard Trump or MAGA. Watch, you are going to see a distancing... He did it to himself, Trump is his own worst enemy.

whiterock said:

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RMF5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Trump's failure is complete. She was his darling. Attended a number of her rallies, and really threw his weight behind her. And she was a gifted and smart communicator, going up against a milquetoast Dem. But she had to sell her soul to get his approval, spouting his election nonsense. And that cost her.

Just proves Trump's toxicity. Hopefully, this is the nail in his coffin.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2022-election/democrat-katie-hobbs-defeats-maga-favorite-kari-lake-high-stakes-race-rcna55172

---

McCain wing of the AZ Republicans win another one for the Democrats. They will keep doing it (crossing over to vote D). until they can wrest control of the party back from the (much larger) conservative wing of the party.

---

Perhaps Kari Lake arguing for a bigger tent, as opposed to parroting Trump's conspiracy theories, would have helped her gain the slim margin she needed to win in AZ. But not only did she bend knee to Trump, she also alienated McCain voters with her comments about him.

I don't disagree with you about McCain or his supporters, but she (and Trump) must share a lot of the blame for this one.

---

"success has many fathers and failure is an orphan."

Plenty of blame to go around but in fairness we cannot absolve the Oso/Cheney faction for actively assisting the enemy. Incompetence is one thing, but purposely assisting the enemy while we are in a struggle with them has to be called out for what it is.

That's a silver lining for Desantis. The new guy can side step all the old trenches and wads of razor wire from past conflicts within the party. Old station but new tracks and new train…..

---

I'm Independent, not a faction of the Republican Party. I am disappointed in Cheney's support of Democrats; I wish she wouldn't. I take ownership.

I'm waiting for you to take ownership of a disastrous slate of candidates, your number was 55; you'll be lucky to hold what you have. Instead, you double down on your Dear Leader. You're posting like a Republican precinct chairman in Bum****.

Highest inflation in 40 years
Worst border crisis in history
Most unpopular president since Truman (Biden approval around 40%)
75% of voters say country is going in the wrong direction
Worst crime wave since the 90s

Yet voters looked at the Trump recruited candidates and said "no". Why?

---

Well, you did send Cheney money, and she did use it to help defeat some of those candidates you didn't like, so don't try to hide behind platitudes of disappointment.

Our candidates weren't the problem. They were outspent by as much as 10-1, in no small part because our Senate Leader signaled to the donor class that there was a problem with candidate quality. Far greater critique could be made of Democrat candidates: Pale reflections like Murray, Hobbs, Hassan; wild eyed ideologues like Barnes and Warnock; and on what candidate could Fetterman be considered (by Republicans) a superior candidate to a well-spoken world-famous doctor like Oz? ALL of those equally (or more) flawed candidates were beatable had we had proper and well-funded campaign plans.

Excerpt from excellent article at link:
"The anti-right narrative is a remarkable thing: when a candidate Trump supported lost, like Oz in PA, it was Trump's fault; when a candidate Trump opposed lost, like Joe O'Dea in CO, it was Trump's fault. When a candidate Trump supported won, like Vance in OH, pundits discounted the victory; when a candidate Trump opposed won, like Kemp in GA, the same pundits found it enormously significant. DeSantis's nearly 20-point margin of victory in FL, a big win for the right, was mostly hyped as a defeat for Trump, even though FL is Trump's home base."
https://spectatorworld.com/topic/this-election-was-no-loss-for-trump/

To that last observation about DeSantis, we must note uncontestable facts: DeSantis was a founding member of the "Freedom Caucus" in the House. you know, the place where the MTG-types plot & plan how to move the GOP caucus rightward. Further, Desantis literally owes his first election victory to Trump, whose endorsement elevated him out of a crowded primary field. So Trump's endorsements are hardly a badge of dishonor. And we cannot ignore that DeSantis is not anti-MAGA. He's proto-Maga. Not a rejection of the original, but a new, improved version of it. Finally a word about last Tuesday that is material but thus far overlooked: I'm as excited as anyone about the DeSantis victory. But what was the quality of the candidate he faced? A grey'd out shape-shifter who is now 3 wins, 5 losses in statewide races run on the ticket of both parties - neither liberal enough to enervate Dems,nor conservative enough to enervate conservatives. How many "notional points" did he add to DeSantis's win total? (answer: probably more than the notional "-2.something points" sombear's WDC connections indicated applied to GOP senate candidates.) So yes, Desantis's victory was impressive and cannot be said he beat up on a teddy bear. But neither was it a clash of titans....

Here's the cold hard reality:
There were wins and losses last Tuesday.
Establishment Republicans made no progress in moving the GOP leftward.
The realignment of the GOP as a multi-racial working class party continues.
It cannot be stopped.
Ball is in your court.

---

I am confused with one thing, you seem convinced anyone that believes that MAGA is bad for the future of the GOP is trying to move the Party left? I don't get that.

• Trying to open the party to be more inclusive,
• Trying to have the party by less dark,
• Trying to get away from fear politics,
• Trying to get back to a Reagan-esque view of the world?

All guilty as charged, but further left? No. Policies are fine (Granted, there are always tweaks including whether to work more within the system or blow it up. ), it is the way that the MAGA group operates that is the problem.

GOP has some nice winners, Trump attacks them and tries to discredit them. That summarized the problem to me. There is no Team GOP, either you are Trump or you will be attacked and discredited. That is not the conservative Party I signed up for.

---

Trump is a survivor. Do not miscalculate that he will just fade away. He will be a very, very tough out.

---

You make a lot of well-thought out decent points, but I really don't get your reasoning here, and your track record on predictions is pretty abysmal.

Trump lost the 2020 election handily to a geriatric patient with no good ideas. The candidates he really threw his weight behind performed poorly in 2022. Yes, I know you would like to blame that all on funding, but it's interesting that "funding" hurt Trump's sycophants much worse than it hurt non-sycophants. In fact, despite your now stated excuse of lack of funding being the reason Trump's candidates were defeated, you told us just a couple of weeks ago there would be a red wave, and that someone like Kari Lake could replace DeSantis as the GOP wunderkind and be a potential VP. Now we know how that turned out. No wave, and Lake got beaten by a frumpy Democrat who was too scared to debate her. Yet again another bad prediction. In fact, as of late, I am having difficulty remembering the last time one of your predictions has proven right.

Tell us, why should we believe your prediction that Trump will be a tough out, and should get the party nod over other candidates given your less than stellar track record at predicting these things? He lost in 2020, and that was before the election denying nonsense and myriad of legal issues. All of the polls show he is much less popular now than he was then. Hell, his own children apparently don't even want him to run. What makes you think a guy his age, with his track record, and inability to control his worse impulses, who is a loser in the last election, is all the sudden going to find his mojo again at the ripe old age of 76? And if he does get the nod and runs again and loses handily, what is your excuse going to be next time after you inaccurately predict another win for Trump?

There is no denying Trump did some good things, and helped the Republican Party's demographic problem. I think his populist bent is something the party can build on to form a bigger tent, and generally agree with your opinion of the establishment Republicans and neocons (they're terrible). But Trump hasn't won anything since 2016. He caught lightning in a bottle running against a terrible candidate. We would have to completely ignore his track record since then to buy what you're selling.

He fought a good fight, but in the end, our dear friend Mothra is exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of one of the worst epidemics of our age. Just goes to show that even the best of us are not immune to this terrible disease. I am sorry to report that he has fallen victim to TDS.

BearN said:

---

He fought a good fight, but in the end, our dear friend Mothra is exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of one of the worst epidemics of our age. Just goes to show that even the best of us are not immune to this terrible disease. I am sorry to report that he has fallen victim TDS.

---

Trump has been a victim of TDS since he lost his re election bid in 2020 .

And his case is about to go viral.......very publicly.

Canada2017 said:

---

BearN said:

---

He fought a good fight, but in the end, our dear friend Mothra is exhibiting all the tell-tale signs of one of the worst epidemics of our age. Just goes to show that even the best of us are not immune to this terrible disease. I am sorry to report that he has fallen victim TDS.

---

Trump has been a victim of TDS since he lost his re election bid in 2020 .

And his case is about to go viral.......very publicly.

---

Still better than the finest Democrat

but yes, I pray he doesn't make it past the primaries