4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

not exactly a relevant question, the more relevant question would be "can this state or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?"

---

Okay.
Can Michigan or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?
More relevant, can a political party that lost the election submit their alternate slate? Michigan Republicans did this without authority.

---

yes they can, sending contested slates of electors is not illegal there are protocols to rectify contested slates between Dec 16 and Jan 6th,

your clarity on the winner now was an assumption of who the winner was when the electors were sent(if the electors werent sent and the state overturned the original results, there is an issue.. if they send and the state doesnt change then you just scrap as outlines in the federal counting proceedure), your assumption they did without authority is just that.. they Interpreted a series of election rules different than you.

---

No, they can't send a document claiming the actual loser of the election was the winner. The Certificate of Votes comes from the State of Michigan and is certified by the governor after the votes are canvassed.

This group forged a Certificate of Votes, sent it to the Archives claiming to be legitimate. They didn't send it in case a court changed the outcome. If a court changed the result, that would be forwarded by the Satate of Michigan.

Check this affidavit:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23880299-fake-electors-affidavit

---

you filled in your arguement with things i didnt say.. awesome, i leave you to continue to argue with your self.

---

You read it & retreated

Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

not exactly a relevant question, the more relevant question would be "can this state or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?"

---

Okay.
Can Michigan or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?
More relevant, can a political party that lost the election submit their alternate slate? Michigan Republicans did this without authority.

---

yes they can, sending contested slates of electors is not illegal there are protocols to rectify contested slates between Dec 16 and Jan 6th,

your clarity on the winner now was an assumption of who the winner was when the electors were sent(if the electors werent sent and the state overturned the original results, there is an issue.. if they send and the state doesnt change then you just scrap as outlines in the federal counting proceedure), your assumption they did without authority is just that.. they Interpreted a series of election rules different than you.

---

No, they can't send a document claiming the actual loser of the election was the winner. The Certificate of Votes comes from the State of Michigan and is certified by the governor after the votes are canvassed.

This group forged a Certificate of Votes, sent it to the Archives claiming to be legitimate. They didn't send it in case a court changed the outcome. If a court changed the result, that would be forwarded by the Satate of Michigan.

Check this affidavit:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23880299-fake-electors-affidavit

---

you filled in your arguement with things i didnt say.. awesome, i leave you to continue to argue with your self.

---

You read it & retreated

---

nope, didnt read it.. read your argument and decided not to play your game where you tell me what I said and then tell me why what I said was wrong.

Enjoy your evening

4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

not exactly a relevant question, the more relevant question would be "can this state or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?"

---

Okay.
Can Michigan or any other state submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?
More relevant, can a political party that lost the election submit their alternate slate? Michigan Republicans did this without authority.

---

yes they can, sending contested slates of electors is not illegal there are protocols to rectify contested slates between Dec 16 and Jan 6th,

your clarity on the winner now was an assumption of who the winner was when the electors were sent(if the electors werent sent and the state overturned the original results, there is an issue.. if they send and the state doesnt change then you just scrap as outlines in the federal counting proceedure), your assumption they did without authority is just that.. they Interpreted a series of election rules different than you.

---

No, they can't send a document claiming the actual loser of the election was the winner. The Certificate of Votes comes from the State of Michigan and is certified by the governor after the votes are canvassed.

This group forged a Certificate of Votes, sent it to the Archives claiming to be legitimate. They didn't send it in case a court changed the outcome. If a court changed the result, that would be forwarded by the Satate of Michigan.

Check this affidavit:
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/23880299-fake-electors-affidavit

---

you filled in your arguement with things i didnt say.. awesome, i leave you to continue to argue with your self.

---

You read it & retreated

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nope, didnt read it.. read your argument

---

Obviously you did not read it. It is the affidavit laying out the facts.

I thought you were a fair broker

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors.

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution, which was manifestly not the case.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors.

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution, which was manifestly not the case.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

there is also a distinction between state election law and federal election law.. this a bigger birds nest and isnt cut and dry either way.

Fraud require harm.. there was none.

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors.

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution, which was manifestly not the case.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

there is also a distinction between state election law and federal election law.. this a bigger birds nest and isnt cut and dry either way.

Fraud require harm.. there was none.

---

In criminal law?

Osodecentx said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors.

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution, which was manifestly not the case.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

there is also a distinction between state election law and federal election law.. this a bigger birds nest and isnt cut and dry either way.

Fraud require harm.. there was none.

---

In criminal law?

---

must prove they gained something by the fraud or by the attempt.. if they argue it was a giant FU with nothing to gain, no fraud.

Its not cut and dry..

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Michigan indicts alleged plotters in fake elector scheme.

The allegations detailed in Nessel's affidavit are compelling: The Republican fake electors met clandestinely at the GOP headquarters, were not allowed to take in their phones and took an oath of secrecy. The Republicans falsely attested that they had met in the legislature and were "duly organized" and that they had proceeded in "the manner provided by law." That phony slate was then submitted to the U.S. Senate and to the National Archives.

A model prosecution memo recently released by Just Security, an online forum for analysis of U.S. policy on law, rights and security, described how Trump and his cronies organized Republicans in battleground states that Biden had won, including Michigan, "to sign and submit false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes, on behalf of their respective states, in the Electoral College for Donald Trump."

The memo described how the plan played out in Michigan:
In Michigan, according to the testimony of Laura Cox, the former leader of Michigan's Republican Party, an individual who claimed "he was working with the [Trump] campaign" was coordinating with so-called electors. … These fraudulent electors had a plan, which Cox described as "insane and inappropriate," to meet the day before the Electoral College was scheduled to meet and hide in Michigan's Capitol building overnight so they could later bolster their claim that their electoral ballot certificates were legitimate because they had fulfilled the requirement under Michigan law that electoral votes be cast in that building.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/18/michigan-charges-alleged-fake-electors/

---

the effort by Dems to prosecute this is actually quite alarming.

BOTH parties elect slates of electors for every presidential election. State statute defines which ones get to cast votes, and which don't, what are rules for each elector...'faithless electors," etc......

So an "alternate slate" is not a one-off thing. There are 50 alternate slates in every election. Having the alternate slate of electors in place and ready to vote should the state election be overturned is, well, alarming. It's defining common sense contingency planning as a criminal conspiracy.

---

Do other states submit their alternate slates to the Congress and the National Archives?

---

Why would that matter?

Preparing a contingency should one or more Electors be disqualified is insurrection?
(no).
Taking steps to eliminate potential procedural challenges to a contingency plan is insurrection?
(no)
Did their actions have any impact to undermine the certified Electoral Vote?
(no)
Could their actions have had any effect whatsoever without intervention of the Judiciary?
(no)

It's one thing for a prosecution to be so nakedly political, but this one actually seeks to criminalize redress of grievance..... "don't question our interpretation of rules on what we're doing or we'll make you pay....."

---

Read the affidavit & we'll discuss. None of what you said above happened

---

You have a reading comprehension problem.

The GOP electors, knowing there was ongoing litigation about what they sincerely believed to be election irregularities would not be completed before the date the MIchigan EC would meet, wanted to ensure that failure to comply with all requirements of Michigan statute would not render a substantively valid challenge vulnerable to failure on procedural grounds. So they executed an alternate Electoral Vote tally and sent it to WDC, where it would await adjudication by Senate and/or Courts. There was no specific legal prohibition against them doing so.

What they did is no different whatsoever than the "provisional ballot" process most states have in elections. One may cast a vote.....and work out the issue of eligibility later....in order to avoid missing election day, because law does have very specific rules about votes being cast BY election day. And Democrats are trying to make that a criminal act, as if the GOP electors were trying to surreptitiously substitute their EV for the certified, when such was most definitely not the case.

The prosecution is a legal theory quite a bit more contrived than the actions taken by the GOP Electors.

(note that the affidavit described exactly the "two slate" process I have mentioned here and elsewhere.)

---

Electoral College Provisional ballot? There is no "provisional ballot" for the EC. The Certified ballot must come through the legislature with the governor's signature. Even if the Michigan vote had been reversed the ballot forwarded directly to the National Archives would not have been valid. They were not in compliance with Michigan statues, but in violation of them.

The GOP electors were surreptitiously trying to steal the presidential election for Trump. The affidavit lays out their actions over pages of very detailed facts.

---

LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

---

"Fake Slates" should be your clue that you're promoting spin. Each state Biden won had TWO slates of electors ready to go on election day. Only one gets certified. What the other (uncertified) slate does is irrelevant, for the purpose of the election. They can disappear. They can meet once a week to eat barbecue and talk about the election or football, or eeling on Lake Erie, or whatever other nonsense people stupid enough to live in blue states want to do with their spare time. They can even meet and prepare to be ready cast their electoral votes should the certified slate be de-certified by the courts, if they want to. It's totally inconsequential. No law against it. Whatsoever. It's called political organizing, a protected right of association and speech under the First Amendment. None of that is fraud. You just don't like the speech, so like all your Democrat buddies, you're going to try to squelch it with whatever power you have available. Truth is, you need it to be fraud because you can't defeat one Donald Trump, who lives in your skull rent free. It's pitiful to see you caught up in such pathological psychosis.

And don't start your neverTrump BS about me being all-Trump all-the-time. I don't care who the nominee is. I"m going to vote for him/her. I with ***** mightily if it's that arrogant ass-hat Hutchinson, and I might be more or less excited about some than others, but otherwise I won't mind a bit because it's rather important we eject the current occupants of the WH. ANYONE on our side is better than what we have there.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Quote:

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LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

---

And don't start your neverTrump BS about me being all-Trump all-the-time. I don't care who the nominee is. I"m going to vote for him/her. I with ***** mightily if it's that arrogant ass-hat Hutchinson, and I might be more or less excited about some than others, but otherwise I won't mind a bit because it's rather important we eject the current occupants of the WH. ANYONE on our side is better than what we have there.

---

Total BS. You've been humping Trump for last few years. Always Trump All the Time. Biden needs Trump to be the nominee to have a chance and you Always Trumpers are abetting the effort

I agree that if you nominate anyone but Trump that person will be the better choice.

Yours truly, Never Trump

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

---

And don't start your neverTrump BS about me being all-Trump all-the-time. I don't care who the nominee is. I"m going to vote for him/her. I with ***** mightily if it's that arrogant ass-hat Hutchinson, and I might be more or less excited about some than others, but otherwise I won't mind a bit because it's rather important we eject the current occupants of the WH. ANYONE on our side is better than what we have there.

---

Total BS. You've been humping Trump for last few years. Always Trump All the Time. Biden needs Trump to be the nominee to have a chance and you Always Trumpers are abetting the effort

I agree that if you nominate anyone but Trump that person will be the better choice.

Yours truly, Never Trump

---

making an assessment which has been proven by events to have been accurate (this far) is hardly "always" anything.

Now, if you want to claim I'm "always Republican," that's fair. There is nothing on the Republican side which remotely approaches the depravity of the left. Except for in a few ways the neverTrump types, who always elevate self over principles.

whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

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They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

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If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

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again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

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Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

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Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

---

And don't start your neverTrump BS about me being all-Trump all-the-time. I don't care who the nominee is. I"m going to vote for him/her. I with ***** mightily if it's that arrogant ass-hat Hutchinson, and I might be more or less excited about some than others, but otherwise I won't mind a bit because it's rather important we eject the current occupants of the WH. ANYONE on our side is better than what we have there.

---

Total BS. You've been humping Trump for last few years. Always Trump All the Time. Biden needs Trump to be the nominee to have a chance and you Always Trumpers are abetting the effort

I agree that if you nominate anyone but Trump that person will be the better choice.

Yours truly, Never Trump

---

making an assessment which has been proven by events to have been accurate (this far) is hardly "always" anything.

Now, if you want to claim I'm "always Republican," that's fair. There is nothing on the Republican side which remotely approaches the depravity of the left. Except for in a few ways the neverTrump types, who always elevate self over principles.

---

So, people who won't vote for a candidate devoid of character are putting self over principle? LOL

You hump Trump and Paxton and say you are principled? That principle is Always Trump All the Time.

Trump led the GOP to defeats, many of them driven by his personal grievances, in 2018, 2020, 2021 and 2022. Add his Covid performance, the Jan. 6 riot, a $5 million civil jury verdict for sexual abuse, plus now a truly stupid alleged Mar-a-Lago coverup.
Yet Mr. Trump still expects the GOP will save him from his own recklessness by nominating him for the White House a third time. He wants Republican voters, as he does Messrs. Nauta and De Oliveira, to take the fall with him.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-indictment-documents-mar-a-lago-security-footage-carlos-de-oliveira-walt-nauta-a0061873?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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LOL Surreptitiously? They sent it certified mail to the NARA!!

In addition to the provisional ballot feature I noted, it's also possible that they simply wanted to make sure to document their discontent. Why else would they send it to the National Archives (who had no role to play in the election)

Further, the statute repeatedly cites "fraud" as the standard. The defense against that is exactly what I cited....an effort to ensure that, should the certified slate be tossed out by courts, a fully qualified slate of electors was ready to go. The idea that they intended to secretly substitute their duly elected slate in place of the certified slate is patently absurd.

The idea that sending a document to the National Archives is an effort to steal an election is the stupidest thing you've ever posted. Yet you buy into it because it satisfies your anger to see Democrats putting in jail for 20 years people guilty of, at bestm a misguided contingency effort, or at worstm a great big middle finger to the Democrats. Trump Derangement Syndrome on display.

---

They sent a fake document representing it as real.

Michigan procedure requires the Board of Canvassers to report election results to legislature. The governor then certifies it is correct and forwards it on to the National Archives and then to the President of the Senate (in this case Pence).

Even if a court had flipped the results, the vote of the fake electors would not have been valid.

Electoral College Provisional ballot? You're a hoot. LOL. You professional Republicans have a future in fiction writing. Your feelings aren't fact.

---

Not true. 14 of the 16 were the elected GOP electors. If the courts flipped the results, they would in fact be the electors attending the electoral college.

So how can proceeding to cast their votes IN CASE the courts overturned the election be construed as fraud? Did they attempt to substitute their names for the Democrat Electors?
No.
Their votes were submitted parallel to the certified slate.

Literally there is negative evidence of fraud at all in what they did. Democrats just don't like it, because it reminds everyone of the details of a contested election, which does have a negative effect on legitimacy. So they are criminalizing political activity. The consequences of this, along with the case being built against Trump are several large steps toward criminalizing the contest of election results as insurrection. You are being quite irresponsible for abetting such abuse of power.

---

If the courts flipped the results, the Republican electors may have ultimately been the electors casting votes for Michigan. The ballot would have to be submitted in the correct manner, not thrown over the transom by this ad hoc gathering of idiots.
But the courts did not and Biden was certified by the legislature and the governor to be the winner.

Republicans in Michigan signed and submitted false certificates claiming that they were the authorized to cast votes on behalf of their respective states in the Electoral College for Donald Trump. They may have a defense of relying on a lawyer's opinion.

No wonder Trump lawyers are disbarred and fined by courts after making preposterous claims and filings. "Provisional Electoral College" ballots?.

---

again. your argument criminalizes legal theory. There is nothing inherently fraudulent about taking steps to improve ones legal standing by using parallel process to avoid missing deadlines. Whether such would or would not have been recognized by courts is imponderable - but it is beyond dispute that 14 of the 16 were, in fact, elected as the GOP slate of electors. I agree

The argument of fraud presumes that their entire effort was an attempt to steal an election via surreptitious substitution which it was was.

I swear, dude, neverTrumpism corrodes the soul.

---

Always Trump All the Time doesn't mean you can ignore laws and the Constitution.. They did it in an attempt to steal Michigan for Trump.

There is no provision in the federal Constitution or state law for "Provisional Electoral College" votes. NONE!

---

Neither is there any prohibition, federal or state, against those electors doing exactly what they did. That's why Democrats in Michigan contrived fraud into their actions, even though there is so way their votes could have been used to steal Michigan for Trump.

Your case here is silly. They met and executed a document, then sent it to the National Archives, ergo it was insurrection (completely ignoring the fact that the document was never considered authentic by anyone involved in the certification of the EV at state or federal level).

The hate has devoured your brain.

---

Tell Rudy about the "Provisional Electoral Ballot" defense.

Three weeks ago, a legal ethics committee in Washington said he should be disbarred for his "unparalleled" attempts to help Mr. Trump overturn the 2020 election.
A few weeks earlier, Mr. Giuliani sat for a voluntary interview with prosecutors working for the special counsel, Jack Smith, answering questions about, among other things, a plan to create fake slates of pro-Trump electors in key swing states that Mr. Biden had won. And he could face charges in an investigation, led by the district attorney in Fulton County, into efforts to reverse Mr. Trump's 2020 loss in Georgia.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/07/26/us/politics/giuliani-georgia-election-workers.html

---

And don't start your neverTrump BS about me being all-Trump all-the-time. I don't care who the nominee is. I"m going to vote for him/her. I with ***** mightily if it's that arrogant ass-hat Hutchinson, and I might be more or less excited about some than others, but otherwise I won't mind a bit because it's rather important we eject the current occupants of the WH. ANYONE on our side is better than what we have there.

---

Total BS. You've been humping Trump for last few years. Always Trump All the Time. Biden needs Trump to be the nominee to have a chance and you Always Trumpers are abetting the effort

I agree that if you nominate anyone but Trump that person will be the better choice.

Yours truly, Never Trump

---

making an assessment which has been proven by events to have been accurate (this far) is hardly "always" anything.

Now, if you want to claim I'm "always Republican," that's fair. There is nothing on the Republican side which remotely approaches the depravity of the left. Except for in a few ways the neverTrump types, who always elevate self over principles.

---

So, people who won't vote for a candidate devoid of character are putting self over principle? LOL

You hump Trump and Paxton and say you are principled? That principle is Always Trump All the Time.

Trump led the GOP to defeats, many of them driven by his personal grievances, in 2018, 2020, 2021 and 2022. Add his Covid performance, the Jan. 6 riot, a $5 million civil jury verdict for sexual abuse, plus now a truly stupid alleged Mar-a-Lago coverup.
Yet Mr. Trump still expects the GOP will save him from his own recklessness by nominating him for the White House a third time. He wants Republican voters, as he does Messrs. Nauta and De Oliveira, to take the fall with him.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/donald-trump-indictment-documents-mar-a-lago-security-footage-carlos-de-oliveira-walt-nauta-a0061873?mod=opinion_lead_pos1

---

LOL "expects."

Expectations got nothing to do with it. Trump is earning his GOP support. As I predicted he would. neverTrumpers are furious they can't beat him, and they just can't take it. Forces the very people who criticize him for not pledging to support the GOP nominee to pledge not to support the GOP nominee (if it's a certain you know who). That's the most appealing part of Trump, the way he discredits his critics by revealing their vanities. That's no reason to vote for him, but it is nonetheless delicious to watch.

I am disappointed Desantis isn't doing better. Wouldn't mind at all if he won the primary. He would probably be more effective at the agenda I would want than Trump would. I expected (wanted) him to be the VP nominee, but if he doesn't improve his position, he may not get the nod. (queue here the boilerplate "he will not do it".....) Yeah, yeah, his supporters have to say that to fight against the self-fulfilling prophesy. But if he's offered, he will accept. Every one of those running will accept if offered. Except maybe Hutchinson. He's not a terribly serious guy.

Vivek will be fun to watch. I could get excited about that guy.

Before sentencing 61-year-old grandma Connie Meggs to 15 months in prison for her 18 minute nonviolent presence in the Capitol on January 6, Judge Amit Mehta said he “continues to struggle” with what happened that day.

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) August 30, 2023

A man just got 17 years in prison for tearing down a fence on January 6. Meanwhile a guy responsible for burning an entire police station to the ground during the BLM riots got only 4 years. No sane person thinks this is justice. pic.twitter.com/5HUh04x7uu

— Matt Walsh (@MattWalshBlog) August 31, 2023

Here is the fence shaking incident DOJ and Judge Tim Kelly have branded a federal crime of terrorism to “influence government.”

This is what a line prosecutor tried to compare to mass casualty events and use of WMDs.

Just when you think you’ve heard it all… pic.twitter.com/7V3uyAPQN8

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) August 31, 2023

Osodecentx said:

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Wangchung said:

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sombear said:

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BearN said:

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sombear said:

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Worst part of this to me is there are millions of Trumpers who do not believe or just don't know that this kind of stuff happened on J6. They truly buy into the peaceful protest/cops let everyone in narrative. Sad.

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Yes, this one person deserves prison. Worst part of this to me is there are millions of people like you who believe this proves everyone there that day did things like this. They truly buy into the insurrection and "worst thing in the history of this country" and that anyone there on Jan 6 should be locked up forever.

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Actually, I've posted more times than I can count that (1) it was not an insurrection, (2) Trump is not criminally liable, (3) the J6 committee/hearings were a joke, and (4) much of the sentencing is far out of whack.

Nice try though.

But J6 was a horrific day, and our former commander-in-chief was a selfish coward.

---

When people make references to Jan 6th as a peaceful protest and the like it is NOT an attempt
to convince you it was peaceful or mere tourists. It's a reference to how the 8 months of deadly democrat riots were covered by the media and referenced by democrats in comparison to the fake outrage over Jan 6th, which saw FAR less destruction and violence by literally every metric.

---

The BLM riots during that summer were outrageous and the perps should have been prosecuted.

However, you have an interesting approach to law enforcement. It seems to be the "what about" doctrine. That is, if every single crime isn't prosecuted then the Jan rioters shouldn't be prosecuted. If McCabe wasn't prosecuted then Trump can't be prosecuted for anything he does.

Where does it stop? Dems are saying since Trump isn't in prison Hunter can't be prosecuted.

---

It's amazing and entertaining where some people righteously decide "where it should stop" (suddenly)

A Proud Boys leader got 17 years in prison for “tearing down a fence” on J6

A New York lawyer got 15 months for firebombing a police car during the BLM riots

Does this seem like equal justice to you? pic.twitter.com/hLwbBvezRv

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 31, 2023

To whom is the tearful Rehl referring? Wait a minute!!

During his sentencing, a tearful Rehl struck a very different, remorseful tone, taking responsibility for his predicament repeatedly saying, "It's my fault." He also insisted: "I'm done peddling lies for other people that don't care about me."

Trump touts new T-shirt merch with Georgia mug shot in latest video

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/posts/110986361659563775

Redbrickbear said:

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A Proud Boys leader got 17 years in prison for “tearing down a fence” on J6

A New York lawyer got 15 months for firebombing a police car during the BLM riots

Does this seem like equal justice to you? pic.twitter.com/hLwbBvezRv

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 31, 2023

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The last couple years has demonstrated we have two standards of justice.

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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A Proud Boys leader got 17 years in prison for “tearing down a fence” on J6

A New York lawyer got 15 months for firebombing a police car during the BLM riots

Does this seem like equal justice to you? pic.twitter.com/hLwbBvezRv

— DC_Draino (@DC_Draino) August 31, 2023

---

The last couple years has demonstrated we have two standards of justice.

---

The last 250 years have demonstrated that.

Consider that former Weatherman Laura Whitehorn of M19CO was sentenced to 20 years in prison for bombing the US Capitol, three military installations in Washington DC, and four sites in New York City.

She was released on parole after just 14 years. https://t.co/dxOnHIv6Hm

— Lafayette Lee (@Partisan_O) September 1, 2023

Susan Rosenberg was also a member of M19, the May 19th Communist Organization.

Rosenberg was pardoned by Clinton on his last day of office. She was supposed to serve 75 years for bombing the Capitol in the early '80s. Her office is in Berkeley, California. She is the VP of… https://t.co/TD753SJSiJ

— Liberty Belle (@ArmisDei) September 2, 2023

Ethan Nordean. Walking past police on January 6.

Now branded a domestic terrorist by Judge Tim Kelly and sentenced to 18 years in prison pic.twitter.com/yfid82jBqo

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) September 2, 2023

State of the American injustice system. pic.twitter.com/3yMPbHxzwi

— Steven Steele (@MrStevenSteele) September 1, 2023

Redbrickbear said:

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Ethan Nordean. Walking past police on January 6.

Now branded a domestic terrorist by Judge Tim Kelly and sentenced to 18 years in prison pic.twitter.com/yfid82jBqo

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) September 2, 2023

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Wasn't Nordean the one who breached the Capitol by using a shield forcefully then from a policeman to break a window? Then he used a walk talkie to report the breach to the other insurrectionists.

The judge who sentenced him was appointed by Trump

Osodecentx said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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Ethan Nordean. Walking past police on January 6.

Now branded a domestic terrorist by Judge Tim Kelly and sentenced to 18 years in prison pic.twitter.com/yfid82jBqo

— Julie Kelly 🇺🇸 (@julie_kelly2) September 2, 2023

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Wasn't Nordean the one who breached the Capitol by using a shield forcefully then from a policeman to break a window? Then he used a walk talkie to report the breach to the other insurrectionists.

The judge who sentenced him was appointed by Trump

---

The point is not did these individuals engage in unlawful behavior or is the Federal judge appointed by Obama or Trump.

It's that rioters during the summer of BLM are getting two year sentences for throwing Molotov cocktails at police cars, attacking court houses, assaulting officers, and even setting pubic elementary schools on fire.

Jan 6th defendants are getting 17 years in some cases.

There is a massive disparity in sentencing and prosecutorial initiative here….