https://gop.com/video/12-minutes-of-democrats-denying-election-results/Wrecks Quan Dough said:
When do we start indicating people for trying to overturn 2016?
Here is a long list of idiots who qualify.
Trump charged by Justice Department for efforts to overturn 2020 election
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568 Replies |
Last: 2 yr ago by Jack Bauer
Here is a long list of idiots who qualify.
I am not sure all attorneys will agree. There are those that believe the indictment is valid and needs to happen. Will be interesting to see how it plays out.Doc Holliday said:Any lawyer with a modicum of integrity would agree that the Smith indictment is a pile of garbage. It's about on par with the fake Raccoon Dog paper on Covid's origin. Yet, no one is going to tell 50 percent of the public. For them, this will be narrative for the next 18 months: pic.twitter.com/taAR6p8cUS
— Hans Mahncke (@HansMahncke) August 2, 2023
With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
Is this guy trying to be a comedian?
Michael Beschloss went further and compared January 6th to the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11: "Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy, tried to destroy our system." pic.twitter.com/2AhvFs6ynX
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) August 2, 2023
I'm tired of the overreaching hyperbole. You'd think adults would know betterJack Bauer said:
Is this guy trying to be a comedian?Michael Beschloss went further and compared January 6th to the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11: "Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy, tried to destroy our system." pic.twitter.com/2AhvFs6ynX
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) August 2, 2023
Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
Adults are no longer in charge in an age of weak men.Osodecentx said:I'm tired of the overreaching hyperbole. You'd think adults would know betterJack Bauer said:
Is this guy trying to be a comedian?Michael Beschloss went further and compared January 6th to the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11: "Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy, tried to destroy our system." pic.twitter.com/2AhvFs6ynX
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) August 2, 2023
These are grown children.
Jack Bauer said:
Is this guy trying to be a comedian?Michael Beschloss went further and compared January 6th to the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11: "Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy, tried to destroy our system." pic.twitter.com/2AhvFs6ynX
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) August 2, 2023
Michael Beschloss is a good example of the extreme ideological nature of modern historians.
He is also a Presidential/Executive power sycophant so its strange to see him not sucking the chrome off the Presidential seal...but since its Trump in this case he has finally found some Presidential over step that he is against.
The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
[Here we go again. More Trump indictments. Before we get going, I will remind you that I believe a) that Joe Biden, for whom I did not vote, won the election, and b) that Trump behaved utterly disgracefully in the post-election aftermath, especially on January 6, and that I supported his second impeachment over that.
And yet, I find myself where about half of the American people are: so disgusted with the ruling class and institutions of American society that I can at least contemplate voting for a dirtbag like Donald Trump as someone who is corrupt, but less so than the incumbent president, who will be on the 2024 ballot. My unshakable belief is that if 2024 is a second Trump-Biden showdown, then the only real choice is between which form of wretched decline America will take.
First, let's look at the indictment. The New York Times has posted the full text, with annotations by its reporters explaining key passages. There's no way around it: Trump behaved with reckless disregard for the practices foundational to our democracy. Reading it as a layman, the only real defense he seems to have against many (maybe all?) of these charges is that he is such a narcissist out of touch with reality that he did not believe all the people gathered around him who said there was no serious evidence of meaningful election fraud. In fact, as I read further, the recollection of the facts in the case made me physically uncomfortable, with the brazenness of Trump's lies and machinations laid bare. So many of these details slipped my memory. The prosecution brings them all back into focus.
Reading it, you realize how the integrity of the election depended to a significant degree on the refusal of some elected state officials pro-Trump Republicans to live by Trump's lies. That is, they put their duty to the truth, and to the public good, over their loyalty to a corrupt chief executive who had behind him the power of a mob.
Here's an example of the annotation, which shows you the level of helpful detail it provides....
You can read the whole thing for yourself. It is sickening. But does it amount to criminality? The editors at National Review don't think so. They acknowledge that Trump behaved disgustingly, but say that building a criminal case on his actions is flimsy. You don't have to be a legal expert to wonder how on earth they are going to make stick a violation of federal civil rights law stick to Trump (the theory is that by trying to obviate some votes, Trump broke civil rights law a sign that the prosecutor is throwing whatever he can at Trump, hoping to make it stick).
I'm going to have to go deeper into the indictment and its allegations before I can form a confident opinion on it. But one thing is clear to me now: Donald Trump is a cretin who should never have risen so high in American public life. The fact that he has done so, and might take back the White House, is a giant flashing neon sign of our nation's decadence.
And yet, the question that so many elites never seem to ask themselves: why is it that despite everything we know about Trump, half the country prefers him as president to Joe Biden?
You can say, "people are stupid," or "people have been tricked," or whatever. There's some of that, surely. But that is too self-serving. I ask myself: why, despite everything I know and believe about Trump's corruption, would I consider voting for him as the lesser of two great evils?
Joe Biden is in fact a good symbol of the corruption of the American ruling class. He has spent his entire life near the pinnacle of power in the imperial city. As president, he has never been particularly popular, but he has been a lot more effective than you would think, because he knows how to use power. This is something Trump diehards refuse to understand: owning the libs is no substitute for effective conservative governance. Joe Biden doesn't stiffen the giblets of liberals like Obama did, but he gets things done. If I were a liberal, I would be grateful for that.
He might be a senescent, woke ambulatory cabbage, but he makes things happen. Once upon a time, you might have thought a center-left guy like Joe Biden would govern with moderation. Nope. He has gone all-out to institutionalize transgender radicalism, and the destructive lies of critical race theory. On the social conservatism front, which is what I care most about, it is hard to imagine any Democratic president delivering more results for progressives.
The transformation of the US military into a woke institution began under Barack Obama, was not impeded by the clueless and buffoonish Trump, and resumed under Joe Biden. Now, as you have seen, only 60 percent of Americans report confidence in the military. Just this week, a friend down South e-mailed to tell me that his high school senior son, a kid who has very high test scores and a GPA, and who has dreamed of attending a service academy since junior high days, has decided not to apply to a service academy. Why not? He told his father he doesn't trust the government.
This summer, the young man participated in a Coast Guard program for potential recruits. He was not picked to come to the in-person program, but he joined 99 other young men in being invited to take the online version of the program. Every one of the online, second-class participants were white and male. My friend said looking at the Instagram promotional shots of earlier in-person classes of this same program revealed not a single white face. Such is the "diversity and inclusion" of the woke military. I know this family, and I know that they are Christians, and have close black friends. But they did not raise a fool in this boy. He knows that his government and its institutions are now set to discriminate against people like him, because of their race and sex.
It is also the case that his government behaves recklessly with regard to war. Did you see the story yesterday in the Financial Times (probably not; it's paywalled) revealing that Ukraine goes through 8,000 artillery shells daily, but the US can only manufacture 24,000 per month. The US is now scrambling to find ammo for Ukraine once the cluster bombs we're giving them run out. Heaven help us if the United States has to fight a war in its actual national interest before we can restock our own ammunition larder. Washington not just Joe Biden and the Democrats, but all official Washington has directed NATO into a debilitating conflict with Russia, one that could have been avoided...] -Rod Dreher
And yet, I find myself where about half of the American people are: so disgusted with the ruling class and institutions of American society that I can at least contemplate voting for a dirtbag like Donald Trump as someone who is corrupt, but less so than the incumbent president, who will be on the 2024 ballot. My unshakable belief is that if 2024 is a second Trump-Biden showdown, then the only real choice is between which form of wretched decline America will take.
First, let's look at the indictment. The New York Times has posted the full text, with annotations by its reporters explaining key passages. There's no way around it: Trump behaved with reckless disregard for the practices foundational to our democracy. Reading it as a layman, the only real defense he seems to have against many (maybe all?) of these charges is that he is such a narcissist out of touch with reality that he did not believe all the people gathered around him who said there was no serious evidence of meaningful election fraud. In fact, as I read further, the recollection of the facts in the case made me physically uncomfortable, with the brazenness of Trump's lies and machinations laid bare. So many of these details slipped my memory. The prosecution brings them all back into focus.
Reading it, you realize how the integrity of the election depended to a significant degree on the refusal of some elected state officials pro-Trump Republicans to live by Trump's lies. That is, they put their duty to the truth, and to the public good, over their loyalty to a corrupt chief executive who had behind him the power of a mob.
Here's an example of the annotation, which shows you the level of helpful detail it provides....
You can read the whole thing for yourself. It is sickening. But does it amount to criminality? The editors at National Review don't think so. They acknowledge that Trump behaved disgustingly, but say that building a criminal case on his actions is flimsy. You don't have to be a legal expert to wonder how on earth they are going to make stick a violation of federal civil rights law stick to Trump (the theory is that by trying to obviate some votes, Trump broke civil rights law a sign that the prosecutor is throwing whatever he can at Trump, hoping to make it stick).
I'm going to have to go deeper into the indictment and its allegations before I can form a confident opinion on it. But one thing is clear to me now: Donald Trump is a cretin who should never have risen so high in American public life. The fact that he has done so, and might take back the White House, is a giant flashing neon sign of our nation's decadence.
And yet, the question that so many elites never seem to ask themselves: why is it that despite everything we know about Trump, half the country prefers him as president to Joe Biden?
You can say, "people are stupid," or "people have been tricked," or whatever. There's some of that, surely. But that is too self-serving. I ask myself: why, despite everything I know and believe about Trump's corruption, would I consider voting for him as the lesser of two great evils?
Joe Biden is in fact a good symbol of the corruption of the American ruling class. He has spent his entire life near the pinnacle of power in the imperial city. As president, he has never been particularly popular, but he has been a lot more effective than you would think, because he knows how to use power. This is something Trump diehards refuse to understand: owning the libs is no substitute for effective conservative governance. Joe Biden doesn't stiffen the giblets of liberals like Obama did, but he gets things done. If I were a liberal, I would be grateful for that.
He might be a senescent, woke ambulatory cabbage, but he makes things happen. Once upon a time, you might have thought a center-left guy like Joe Biden would govern with moderation. Nope. He has gone all-out to institutionalize transgender radicalism, and the destructive lies of critical race theory. On the social conservatism front, which is what I care most about, it is hard to imagine any Democratic president delivering more results for progressives.
The transformation of the US military into a woke institution began under Barack Obama, was not impeded by the clueless and buffoonish Trump, and resumed under Joe Biden. Now, as you have seen, only 60 percent of Americans report confidence in the military. Just this week, a friend down South e-mailed to tell me that his high school senior son, a kid who has very high test scores and a GPA, and who has dreamed of attending a service academy since junior high days, has decided not to apply to a service academy. Why not? He told his father he doesn't trust the government.
This summer, the young man participated in a Coast Guard program for potential recruits. He was not picked to come to the in-person program, but he joined 99 other young men in being invited to take the online version of the program. Every one of the online, second-class participants were white and male. My friend said looking at the Instagram promotional shots of earlier in-person classes of this same program revealed not a single white face. Such is the "diversity and inclusion" of the woke military. I know this family, and I know that they are Christians, and have close black friends. But they did not raise a fool in this boy. He knows that his government and its institutions are now set to discriminate against people like him, because of their race and sex.
It is also the case that his government behaves recklessly with regard to war. Did you see the story yesterday in the Financial Times (probably not; it's paywalled) revealing that Ukraine goes through 8,000 artillery shells daily, but the US can only manufacture 24,000 per month. The US is now scrambling to find ammo for Ukraine once the cluster bombs we're giving them run out. Heaven help us if the United States has to fight a war in its actual national interest before we can restock our own ammunition larder. Washington not just Joe Biden and the Democrats, but all official Washington has directed NATO into a debilitating conflict with Russia, one that could have been avoided...] -Rod Dreher
Harrison Bergeron said:Let's just make it official and codify two standards of justice:Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
- Republicans trying to overturn elections - criminal
- Democrats trying to overturn elections - fighting for "democracy"
If you have a proof of a Dem pressuring state officials to throw out votes, create votes or placing poll workers lives at risk, let's work together to have them prosecuted. This doesn't have to be you versus me.
If Biden or anyone loses Texas and then pushes for alternate electors or singles out central Texas as frauds in effect disenfranchising those voters, let's work together. I'd find that unacceptable.
Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.
His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.
I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.
Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
It is sickening and disqualifying, but I don't think it is criminal.Redbrickbear said:
You can read the whole thing for yourself. It is sickening. But does it amount to criminality? The editors at National Review don't think so. They acknowledge that Trump behaved disgustingly, but say that building a criminal case on his actions is flimsy. You don't have to be a legal expert to wonder how on earth they are going to make stick a violation of federal civil rights law stick to Trump (the theory is that by trying to obviate some votes, Trump broke civil rights law a sign that the prosecutor is throwing whatever he can at Trump, hoping to make it stick).
All true and everyone in DC knows it.Forest Bueller_bf said:The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
You're insane if you believe our judicial system is sound and fair.Mitch Blood Green said:So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.
I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.
IF GUILTY (Capitals), this would rival Watergate.Osodecentx said:I'm tired of the overreaching hyperbole. You'd think adults would know betterJack Bauer said:
Is this guy trying to be a comedian?Michael Beschloss went further and compared January 6th to the Civil War, Pearl Harbor, and 9/11: "Donald Trump, just like those other threats to American democracy, tried to destroy our system." pic.twitter.com/2AhvFs6ynX
— Julio Rosas (@Julio_Rosas11) August 2, 2023
If NOT GUILTY, there will need to be some SERIOUS Congressional Oversight and changes.
Either way, this will be big. Not Pearl Harbor!
Forest Bueller_bf said:The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
If a trial happens in this DC jurisdiction, a "guilty" verdict will be a foregone conclusion from the outset and the proceedings will be on par with an average Stalinistic style show trial. Trump will have about as much of a shot at a fair trial as a prominent Jew would have standing trial before a nazi judge and a nazi jury.
Mitch Blood Green said:Harrison Bergeron said:Let's just make it official and codify two standards of justice:Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
- Republicans trying to overturn elections - criminal
- Democrats trying to overturn elections - fighting for "democracy"
If you have a proof of a Dem pressuring state officials to throw out votes, create votes or placing poll workers lives at risk, let's work together to have them prosecuted. This doesn't have to be you versus me.
If Biden or anyone loses Texas and then pushes for alternate electors or singles out central Texas as frauds in effect disenfranchising those voters, let's work together. I'd find that unacceptable.
Democratic lawmakers have objected to election outcomes on several occasions, including in 2001 and 2005, and as recently as 2017.
Doc Holliday said:You're insane if you believe our judicial system is sound and fair.Mitch Blood Green said:So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.
I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.
It's more fair for rich white guys.
JOE BIDEN 2013: "Gore was elected president"
HILLARY CLINTON 2019: Trump is an 'illegitimate president'
My God - it's like PEARL HARBOR!!!!!!!!!!!
HILLARY CLINTON 2019: Trump is an 'illegitimate president'
My God - it's like PEARL HARBOR!!!!!!!!!!!
Johnny Bear said:Forest Bueller_bf said:The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
If a trial happens in this DC jurisdiction, a "guilty" verdict will be a foregone conclusion from the outset and the proceedings will be on par with an average Stalinistic style show trial. Trump will have about as much of a shot at a fair trial as a prominent Jew would have standing trial before a nazi judge and a nazi jury.
Several Republicans have been found NG in DC federal court
Nope.Doc Holliday said:
Its based entirely on First Amendment protected speech.
A lot of this indictment is people telling Trump that something isn't true and him being his autistic self and believing it anyways.
No DC judge or jury is going to stop it and they're going to throw him in jail. Its not maybe, it will happen.
This will divide the country like you've never seen.
Criminal conspiracy is NOT protected speech.
Smith will show that Trump knew he lost but kept all this up.
Read the indictment.
It's encouraging that this is happening.TexasScientist said:
Trump charged by Justice Department for efforts to overturn his 2020 presidential election loss
https://apnews.com/article/trump-indicted-jan-6-investigation-special-counsel-debb59bb7a4d9f93f7e2dace01feccdc?user_email=02e8f656bddab4002ee87ec45dd8d2bd222f897a064b6ef190cdfa3bf018e584&utm_medium=Afternoon_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=AfternoonWire_Aug1_2023&utm_term=Afternoon%20Wire
BY ERIC TUCKER
Updated 4:45 PM CDT, August 1, 2023
Donald Trump was charged Tuesday in a Justice Department investigation into his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in the run-up to the violent riot by his supporters at the U.S. Capitol.
The charges include conspiracy to defraud the United States government and witness tampering.
The indictment, the third criminal case brought against the former president as he seeks to reclaim the White House in 2024, follows a long-running federal investigation into schemes by Trump and his allies to subvert the peaceful transfer of power and keep him in office despite a decisive loss to Joe Biden.
Even in a year of rapid-succession legal reckonings for Trump, Tuesday's criminal case was especially stunning in its allegations that a former president assaulted the underpinnings of democracy in a frantic and ultimately failed effort to cling to power.
Federal prosecutors say Donald Trump was "determined to remain in power" in conspiracies that targeted a "bedrock function of the United States federal government: the nation's process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election."
Trump is due in court on Thursday before U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan.
The criminal case comes while Trump leads the field of Republicans vying to capture their party's presidential nomination. It is sure to be dismissed by the former president and his supporters and even some of his rivals as just another politically motivated prosecution. Yet the charges stem from one of the most serious threats to American democracy in modern history.
They focus on the turbulent two months after the November 2020 election in which Trump refused to accept his loss and spread lies that victory was stolen from him. The turmoil resulted in the U.S. Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021, when Trump loyalists violently broke into the building, attacked police officers and disrupted the congressional counting of electoral votes.
In between the election and the riot, Trump urged local election officials to undo voting results in their states, pressured former Vice President Mike Pence to halt the certification of electoral votes and falsely claimed that the election had been stolen a notion repeatedly rejected by judges.
The indictment had been expected since Trump said in mid-July that the Justice Department informed him he was a target of its long-running Jan. 6 investigation. A bipartisan House committee that spent months investigating the run-up to the Capitol riot also recommended prosecuting Trump on charges, including aiding an insurrection and obstructing an official proceeding.
The mounting criminal cases against Trump not to mention multiple civil cases are unfolding in the heat of the 2024 race. A conviction in this case, or any other, would not prevent Trump from pursuing the White House or serving as president.
In New York, state prosecutors have charged Trump with falsifying business records about a hush money payoff to a porn actor before the 2016 election. The trial begins in late March.
In Florida, the Justice Department has brought more than three dozen felony counts against Trump accusing him of illegally possessing classified documents after leaving the White House and concealing them from the government. The trial begins in late May.
The latest federal indictment against Trump focuses heavily on actions taken in Washington, and the trial will be held there, in a courthouse located between the White House he once occupied and the Capitol his supporters once stormed. No trial date has been set.
Prosecutors in Georgia are investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to reverse his election loss to Biden there in 2020. The district attorney of Fulton County is expected to announce a decision on whether to indict the former president in early August.
The investigation of Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election was led by Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith. His team of prosecutors has questioned senior Trump administration officials before a grand jury in Washington, including Pence and top lawyers from the Trump White House.
Rudy Giuliani, a Trump lawyer who pursued post-election legal challenges, spoke voluntarily to prosecutors as part of a proffer agreement, in which a person's statements can't be used against them in any future criminal case that is brought.
Prosecutors also interviewed election officials in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere who came under pressure from Trump and his associates to change voting results in states won by Biden, a Democrat.
Focal points of the Justice Department's election meddling investigation included the role played by some of Trump's lawyers, post-election fundraising, a chaotic December 2020 meeting at the White House in which some Trump aides discussed the possibility of seizing voting machines and the enlistment of fake electors to submit certificates to the National Archives and Congress falsely asserting that Trump, not Biden, had won their states' votes.
Trump has been trying to use the mounting legal troubles to his political advantage, claiming without evidence on social media and at public events that the cases are being driven by Democratic prosecutors out to hurt his 2024 election campaign.
The indictments have helped his campaign raise millions of dollars from supporters, though he raised less after the second than the first, raising questions about whether subsequent charges will have the same impact.
A fundraising committee backing Trump's candidacy began soliciting contributions just hours after the ex-president revealed he was the focus of the Justice Department's Jan. 6 investigation, casting it as "just another vicious act of Election Interference on behalf of the Deep State to try and stop the Silent Majority from having a voice in your own country."
Attorney General Merrick Garland last year appointed Smith, an international war crimes prosecutor who also led the Justice Department's public corruption section, as special counsel to investigate efforts to undo the 2020 election and Trump's retention of hundreds of classified documents at his Palm Beach, Florida, home, Mar-a-Lago. Although Trump has derided him as "deranged" and suggested that he is politically motivated, Smith's past experience includes overseeing significant prosecutions against high-profile Democrats.
The Justice Department's investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election began well before Smith's appointment, proceeding alongside separate criminal probes into the Jan. 6 rioters themselves.
More than 1,000 people have been charged in connection with the insurrection, including some with seditious conspiracy.
Even Trump isn't above the law, though he thinks he is.
Hopefully, trial will happen before the general election.
When Trump is acquitted, will the Left collectively self-immolate so that the nation can go back to being a Free Nation under the Rule of One Set of Laws?C. Jordan said:It's encouraging that this is happening.TexasScientist said:
Trump charged by Justice Department for efforts to overturn his 2020 presidential election loss
https://apnews.com/article/trump-indicted-jan-6-investigation-special-counsel-debb59bb7a4d9f93f7e2dace01feccdc?user_email=02e8f656bddab4002ee87ec45dd8d2bd222f897a064b6ef190cdfa3bf018e584&utm_medium=Afternoon_Wire&utm_source=Sailthru&utm_campaign=AfternoonWire_Aug1_2023&utm_term=Afternoon%20Wire
BY ERIC TUCKER
Updated 4:45 PM CDT, August 1, 2023
Donald Trump was charged Tuesday in a Justice Department investigation into his efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 presidential election in the run-up to the violent riot by his supporters at the U.S. Capitol.
The charges include conspiracy to defraud the United States government and witness tampering.
The indictment, the third criminal case brought against the former president as he seeks to reclaim the White House in 2024, follows a long-running federal investigation into schemes by Trump and his allies to subvert the peaceful transfer of power and keep him in office despite a decisive loss to Joe Biden.
Even in a year of rapid-succession legal reckonings for Trump, Tuesday's criminal case was especially stunning in its allegations that a former president assaulted the underpinnings of democracy in a frantic and ultimately failed effort to cling to power.
Federal prosecutors say Donald Trump was "determined to remain in power" in conspiracies that targeted a "bedrock function of the United States federal government: the nation's process of collecting, counting and certifying the results of the presidential election."
Trump is due in court on Thursday before U.S. District Judge Tanya Chutkan.
The criminal case comes while Trump leads the field of Republicans vying to capture their party's presidential nomination. It is sure to be dismissed by the former president and his supporters and even some of his rivals as just another politically motivated prosecution. Yet the charges stem from one of the most serious threats to American democracy in modern history.
They focus on the turbulent two months after the November 2020 election in which Trump refused to accept his loss and spread lies that victory was stolen from him. The turmoil resulted in the U.S. Capitol riot on Jan. 6, 2021, when Trump loyalists violently broke into the building, attacked police officers and disrupted the congressional counting of electoral votes.
In between the election and the riot, Trump urged local election officials to undo voting results in their states, pressured former Vice President Mike Pence to halt the certification of electoral votes and falsely claimed that the election had been stolen a notion repeatedly rejected by judges.
The indictment had been expected since Trump said in mid-July that the Justice Department informed him he was a target of its long-running Jan. 6 investigation. A bipartisan House committee that spent months investigating the run-up to the Capitol riot also recommended prosecuting Trump on charges, including aiding an insurrection and obstructing an official proceeding.
The mounting criminal cases against Trump not to mention multiple civil cases are unfolding in the heat of the 2024 race. A conviction in this case, or any other, would not prevent Trump from pursuing the White House or serving as president.
In New York, state prosecutors have charged Trump with falsifying business records about a hush money payoff to a porn actor before the 2016 election. The trial begins in late March.
In Florida, the Justice Department has brought more than three dozen felony counts against Trump accusing him of illegally possessing classified documents after leaving the White House and concealing them from the government. The trial begins in late May.
The latest federal indictment against Trump focuses heavily on actions taken in Washington, and the trial will be held there, in a courthouse located between the White House he once occupied and the Capitol his supporters once stormed. No trial date has been set.
Prosecutors in Georgia are investigating efforts by Trump and his allies to reverse his election loss to Biden there in 2020. The district attorney of Fulton County is expected to announce a decision on whether to indict the former president in early August.
The investigation of Trump's efforts to overturn the 2020 election was led by Justice Department special counsel Jack Smith. His team of prosecutors has questioned senior Trump administration officials before a grand jury in Washington, including Pence and top lawyers from the Trump White House.
Rudy Giuliani, a Trump lawyer who pursued post-election legal challenges, spoke voluntarily to prosecutors as part of a proffer agreement, in which a person's statements can't be used against them in any future criminal case that is brought.
Prosecutors also interviewed election officials in Georgia, Wisconsin, Michigan and elsewhere who came under pressure from Trump and his associates to change voting results in states won by Biden, a Democrat.
Focal points of the Justice Department's election meddling investigation included the role played by some of Trump's lawyers, post-election fundraising, a chaotic December 2020 meeting at the White House in which some Trump aides discussed the possibility of seizing voting machines and the enlistment of fake electors to submit certificates to the National Archives and Congress falsely asserting that Trump, not Biden, had won their states' votes.
Trump has been trying to use the mounting legal troubles to his political advantage, claiming without evidence on social media and at public events that the cases are being driven by Democratic prosecutors out to hurt his 2024 election campaign.
The indictments have helped his campaign raise millions of dollars from supporters, though he raised less after the second than the first, raising questions about whether subsequent charges will have the same impact.
A fundraising committee backing Trump's candidacy began soliciting contributions just hours after the ex-president revealed he was the focus of the Justice Department's Jan. 6 investigation, casting it as "just another vicious act of Election Interference on behalf of the Deep State to try and stop the Silent Majority from having a voice in your own country."
Attorney General Merrick Garland last year appointed Smith, an international war crimes prosecutor who also led the Justice Department's public corruption section, as special counsel to investigate efforts to undo the 2020 election and Trump's retention of hundreds of classified documents at his Palm Beach, Florida, home, Mar-a-Lago. Although Trump has derided him as "deranged" and suggested that he is politically motivated, Smith's past experience includes overseeing significant prosecutions against high-profile Democrats.
The Justice Department's investigation into the efforts to overturn the 2020 election began well before Smith's appointment, proceeding alongside separate criminal probes into the Jan. 6 rioters themselves.
More than 1,000 people have been charged in connection with the insurrection, including some with seditious conspiracy.
Even Trump isn't above the law, though he thinks he is.
Hopefully, trial will happen before the general election.
I believe in the jury system, I don't believe in partisan or partial jury members.Mitch Blood Green said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
So you don't believe in the jury system? If he didn't do it, he won't be found guilty.
His problem won't be DC. It'll be Republican eye witnesses.
I think you'll be calling them "RINOs" instead of patriots.
Trump has about as much chance in this jurisdiction as a black man in 1950 Alabama had to get an impartial jury.
It's not the system I have issue with, it's the biased people involved that are injected into the system that I have concern with.
https://gop.com/video/12-minutes-of-democrats-denying-election-results/C. Jordan said:Nope.Doc Holliday said:
Its based entirely on First Amendment protected speech.
A lot of this indictment is people telling Trump that something isn't true and him being his autistic self and believing it anyways.
No DC judge or jury is going to stop it and they're going to throw him in jail. Its not maybe, it will happen.
This will divide the country like you've never seen.
Criminal conspiracy is NOT protected speech.
Smith will show that Trump knew he lost but kept all this up.
Read the indictment.
These folks all knew they had lost but still prattled on about Trump and others being an illegitimate president.
This missive came out as Trump was being inaugurated. I wonder who was behind it. Even though they knew Trump had won.Quote:
"The nation is now witnessing a massive corruption of the presidency, far worse than Watergate," the campaign's website says. "From the moment he assumed the office, President Donald Trump has been in direct violation of the U.S. Constitution. The President is not above the law. We will not allow President Trump to profit from the presidency at the expense of our democracy."
Two civil rights groups trying to boot President Donald Trump from the nation's highest office have launched an online campaign to get the brand new commander-in-chief impeached.
Their website, www.impeachdonaldtrumpnow.org, went live on Friday just as Trump was officially sworn in. It is run by two groups, Free Speech for People and RootsAction, which believe Trump's possible conflicts of interest are grounds for his ouster, the Washington Post reports.
It has Clinton footprints all over it.
Osodecentx said:Johnny Bear said:Forest Bueller_bf said:The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
If a trial happens in this DC jurisdiction, a "guilty" verdict will be a foregone conclusion from the outset and the proceedings will be on par with an average Stalinistic style show trial. Trump will have about as much of a shot at a fair trial as a prominent Jew would have standing trial before a nazi judge and a nazi jury.
Several Republicans have been found NG in DC federal court
"Several Republicans" aren't Trump. Give me a break.
ThankfullyJohnny Bear said:Osodecentx said:Johnny Bear said:Forest Bueller_bf said:The trial needs to be moved to a different jurisdiction. No way in hell Trump gets a fair trial.Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
The people in this jurisdiction and the Judge will be chomping at the bit to hand down a guilty verdict.
If a trial happens in this DC jurisdiction, a "guilty" verdict will be a foregone conclusion from the outset and the proceedings will be on par with an average Stalinistic style show trial. Trump will have about as much of a shot at a fair trial as a prominent Jew would have standing trial before a nazi judge and a nazi jury.
Several Republicans have been found NG in DC federal court
"Several Republicans" aren't Trump.
Then you're gonna have to charge Pence too...C. Jordan said:Nope.Doc Holliday said:
Its based entirely on First Amendment protected speech.
A lot of this indictment is people telling Trump that something isn't true and him being his autistic self and believing it anyways.
No DC judge or jury is going to stop it and they're going to throw him in jail. Its not maybe, it will happen.
This will divide the country like you've never seen.
Criminal conspiracy is NOT protected speech.
Smith will show that Trump knew he lost but kept all this up.
Read the indictment.
Also strange how Smith has built his case around Pence's various recollections of what Trump is supposed to have said about stuff but somehow Smith forgot to mention that Pence himself caused most of the damage by raising false hopes with his pre-J6 speech?pic.twitter.com/CnUJbipZ3t https://t.co/Iz28q33xS4
— Hans Mahncke (@HansMahncke) August 2, 2023
Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
You seem perfectly happy that the Left has turned the national capitol district into a one party ruled town.
One where conservatives have no shot of getting a fair trial.
But the National capitol district is where all Americans have a right to visit and to PROTEST against our increasingly tyrannical Federal super state.
Staging a protest against a national election at the Wyoming state house is a waste of time.
All power is in D.C.
Jan 6th, was not a protest. They stormed the Capital. That is a bit different.Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
You seem perfectly happy that the Left has turned the national capitol district into a one party ruled town.
One where conservatives have no shot of getting a fair trial.
But the National capitol district is where all Americans have a right to visit and to PROTEST against our increasingly tyrannical Federal super state.
Staging a protest against a national election at the Wyoming state house is a waste of time.
All power is in D.C.
If they simply convened outside there would have been no arrests.
FLBear5630 said:Jan 6th, was not a protest. They stormed the Capital. That is a bit different.Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
You seem perfectly happy that the Left has turned the national capitol district into a one party ruled town.
One where conservatives have no shot of getting a fair trial.
But the National capitol district is where all Americans have a right to visit and to PROTEST against our increasingly tyrannical Federal super state.
Staging a protest against a national election at the Wyoming state house is a waste of time.
All power is in D.C.
If they simply convened outside there would have been no arrests.
They entered a public tax payer owned building? Now that is a major crime.
Americans need to understand that government buildings are like Imperial palaces...they are off limits to vassals/peasants.
Not to mention they have charged at least 1,000 people for daring to enter the United States Capitol building. And many have been held since then in near solitary confinement in a D.C. prison since that event.
[those being held pretrial are "not allowed to see their families, many times are not allowed to see their attorneys" and that "the food has been a major complaint. There's been complaints of it tasting like cleaner."]
[The detainees list several issues. The conditions allegedly include no religious services or visitations by family, "black mold" and "worms" on the jail's walls and in food, abuse by guards, and vaccine requirements for visits and other services.]
It was closed. The Capitol Police closed it and told them it was closed. The stormed the doors and attacked Congressional Chambers. They scaled the walls. That is not legal. I watched it on TV.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Jan 6th, was not a protest. They stormed the Capital. That is a bit different.Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
You seem perfectly happy that the Left has turned the national capitol district into a one party ruled town.
One where conservatives have no shot of getting a fair trial.
But the National capitol district is where all Americans have a right to visit and to PROTEST against our increasingly tyrannical Federal super state.
Staging a protest against a national election at the Wyoming state house is a waste of time.
All power is in D.C.
If they simply convened outside there would have been no arrests.
They entered a public tax payer owned building? Now that is a major crime.
Americans need to understand that government buildings are like Imperial palaces...they are off limits to vassals/peasants.
Not to mention they have charged at least 1,000 people for daring to enter the United States Capitol building. And many have been held since then in near solitary confinement in a D.C. prison since that event.
[those being held pretrial are "not allowed to see their families, many times are not allowed to see their attorneys" and that "the food has been a major complaint. There's been complaints of it tasting like cleaner."]
[The detainees list several issues. The conditions allegedly include no religious services or visitations by family, "black mold" and "worms" on the jail's walls and in food, abuse by guards, and vaccine requirements for visits and other services.]
FLBear5630 said:It was closed. The Capitol Police closed it and told them it was closed. The stormed the doors and attacked Congressional Chambers. They scaled the walls. That is not legal. I watched it on TV.Redbrickbear said:FLBear5630 said:Jan 6th, was not a protest. They stormed the Capital. That is a bit different.Redbrickbear said:Mitch Blood Green said:Redbrickbear said:Doc Holliday said:With a Jury pull in an area that's 86% hardcore democrat and an Obama appointed Judge who gave unwarranted jail sentences to J6 trespassers, the likelihood of conviction and jail time is high.Mitch Blood Green said:
I don't think Trump goes to jail but I think k he gets convicted because, he did that ***** He attempted to invalidate the vote of millions of Americans.
We saw it.
I think he gets convicted. He loses 2024. He appeals. He runs in 2028. He doesn't go away. This is a trilogy.
In the last election D.C. went for Joe Biden 92.15%....Trump only got 5.4% there
Our national capital is one of the most uneven and partisan cities in the entire Union.
To give you some example in San Francisco the vote only went 85% for Biden in the last election.
D.C. is not just partisan....its the most hyper partisan place in the entire USA.
From where I'm sitting, if you don't want to be charged with connoting a crime in a city, don't commit a crime in a city.
They could have attached the Georgia of Wyoming state house. Then he'd have a more favorable jury pool.
You seem perfectly happy that the Left has turned the national capitol district into a one party ruled town.
One where conservatives have no shot of getting a fair trial.
But the National capitol district is where all Americans have a right to visit and to PROTEST against our increasingly tyrannical Federal super state.
Staging a protest against a national election at the Wyoming state house is a waste of time.
All power is in D.C.
If they simply convened outside there would have been no arrests.
They entered a public tax payer owned building? Now that is a major crime.
Americans need to understand that government buildings are like Imperial palaces...they are off limits to vassals/peasants.
Not to mention they have charged at least 1,000 people for daring to enter the United States Capitol building. And many have been held since then in near solitary confinement in a D.C. prison since that event.
[those being held pretrial are "not allowed to see their families, many times are not allowed to see their attorneys" and that "the food has been a major complaint. There's been complaints of it tasting like cleaner."]
[The detainees list several issues. The conditions allegedly include no religious services or visitations by family, "black mold" and "worms" on the jail's walls and in food, abuse by guards, and vaccine requirements for visits and other services.]
Let be clear...there is a major debate to have if public tax payer owned buildings....especially the United States capitol... have a right to be close to the public at all.
Heck even closing the Senate and House chambers to the people is itself a very questionable act.
Its why we have public galleries in the Chambers so the general public can keep an eye on what the politicians are doing.
The Floor of those chambers of course belongs to the two representative bodies....who may restrict access so that work/debate can take place...but the building itself belongs to the People.