common sense and some basic spending discipline - what a concept!FLBear5630 said:Which shows what?william said:
Come on, you can put a lot of big numbers in the small pile... You can't be this simplistic.
It doesn't show anything. It says keep funding the Govt as is and removes the debt ceiling. It does absolutely nothing but give Trump a path to spending more. And you guys are cheering. If Biden did this you would be calling for civil war.william said:common sense and some basic spending discipline - what a concept!FLBear5630 said:Which shows what?william said:
Come on, you can put a lot of big numbers in the small pile... You can't be this simplistic.
- el KKM
{ sipping coffee }
{ eating donuts }
Go Bears!
ScottS said:
Notice liberals don't care about the debt UNLESS they think they can score political points. It was Trump that teamed up with DOGE not Biden or Obama etc.
FLBear5630 said:
By the way, look at the passed bill.
"Under the proposal, the 118-page bill contains most of the provisions that were put in place in the bipartisan bill that was agreed to on Wednesday. The bill includes $100 billion for disaster aid, $30 billion for farmers and a one-year extension of the farm bill, provisions that were under heavy debate prior to this week's votes."
So, it was all a move to get the Debt Ceiling lifted for Donald. In the end, the 118 pages they still passed to pork. You guys really think Trump is going to reduce spending? Reallocate, yes. Reduce for the American people, no way. Musk is going to make out like a bandit on this 4 year cycle.
Don't disagree. The big question is where the reallocation goes. I will make you a friendly wager that Trump runs up more debt and his budgets are bigger than Bidens. Rationalized that Biden caused so much damage it is going to get worse before it gets better. Other items -nein51 said:FLBear5630 said:
By the way, look at the passed bill.
"Under the proposal, the 118-page bill contains most of the provisions that were put in place in the bipartisan bill that was agreed to on Wednesday. The bill includes $100 billion for disaster aid, $30 billion for farmers and a one-year extension of the farm bill, provisions that were under heavy debate prior to this week's votes."
So, it was all a move to get the Debt Ceiling lifted for Donald. In the end, the 118 pages they still passed to pork. You guys really think Trump is going to reduce spending? Reallocate, yes. Reduce for the American people, no way. Musk is going to make out like a bandit on this 4 year cycle.
If we can simply halt the increase in spending that's a huge win. It's not great but it's one hell of a lot better than we have been doing.
If reallocating funds eliminates increasing funds then it's worthwhile.
nein51 said:
Maybe. Some of that spending was already going to happen because it's the future.
I don't think EVs will be on that list. Consumer pushback has really cratered sales. I doubt you'll see much spending there.
Space you could be correct.
Again, no one should believe anyone is benevolent. Like no politician, of any party, ever.
FLBear5630 said:Don't disagree. The big question is where the reallocation goes. I will make you a friendly wager that Trump runs up more debt and his budgets are bigger than Bidens. Rationalized that Biden caused so much damage it is going to get worse before it gets better. Other items -nein51 said:FLBear5630 said:
By the way, look at the passed bill.
"Under the proposal, the 118-page bill contains most of the provisions that were put in place in the bipartisan bill that was agreed to on Wednesday. The bill includes $100 billion for disaster aid, $30 billion for farmers and a one-year extension of the farm bill, provisions that were under heavy debate prior to this week's votes."
So, it was all a move to get the Debt Ceiling lifted for Donald. In the end, the 118 pages they still passed to pork. You guys really think Trump is going to reduce spending? Reallocate, yes. Reduce for the American people, no way. Musk is going to make out like a bandit on this 4 year cycle.
If we can simply halt the increase in spending that's a huge win. It's not great but it's one hell of a lot better than we have been doing.
If reallocating funds eliminates increasing funds then it's worthwhile.
US Govt will put more into EVs, Space, biomed and satellite communications.
Space Force will need a huge increase in funding.
Relaxed SEC rules on the financial markets, especially disclosure
That is my guess for the agenda coming up.
And you guys aren't? Cut Govt, Cut Govt Cut Govt.... You guys say the same **** over and over.Malbec said:FLBear5630 said:Don't disagree. The big question is where the reallocation goes. I will make you a friendly wager that Trump runs up more debt and his budgets are bigger than Bidens. Rationalized that Biden caused so much damage it is going to get worse before it gets better. Other items -nein51 said:FLBear5630 said:
By the way, look at the passed bill.
"Under the proposal, the 118-page bill contains most of the provisions that were put in place in the bipartisan bill that was agreed to on Wednesday. The bill includes $100 billion for disaster aid, $30 billion for farmers and a one-year extension of the farm bill, provisions that were under heavy debate prior to this week's votes."
So, it was all a move to get the Debt Ceiling lifted for Donald. In the end, the 118 pages they still passed to pork. You guys really think Trump is going to reduce spending? Reallocate, yes. Reduce for the American people, no way. Musk is going to make out like a bandit on this 4 year cycle.
If we can simply halt the increase in spending that's a huge win. It's not great but it's one hell of a lot better than we have been doing.
If reallocating funds eliminates increasing funds then it's worthwhile.
US Govt will put more into EVs, Space, biomed and satellite communications.
Space Force will need a huge increase in funding.
Relaxed SEC rules on the financial markets, especially disclosure
That is my guess for the agenda coming up.
Trump: The new one is President Trump has ceded the presidency to Elon Musk. No, that's not happening. pic.twitter.com/wTeDA06muo
— Acyn (@Acyn) December 22, 2024
assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?FLBear5630 said:Smart, if you have the resources I would long all of Elon's stuff. We have turned the Nation over to him and being the wolf that he is h will set up a very favorable situation for his businesses. He is sort of a mix of Howard Hughes and now Rockefeller/Carnagie. He has really masterfully taken over.J.R. said:that's why I'm long Tesla, even being in the O&G business.FLBear5630 said:Watch what comes out of this, Musk is going to fund his companies through the Fed. I would bet on Neuro-link, SpaceX and Starlink as the big winners money-wise. SpaceX, Neuro-link and Tesla on regulations.J.R. said:
Trumpy Bear now calling for the elimination of the debt ceiling. Now, that's conservative. Between adding to the out of control debt and slapping dumb taxes on Canda and Mexico ....hum
T
This time. Slippery slope. Soros and Musk are dead wrong. You want to talk about threat to Democracy? Quid pro quo or we will primary you with a billion dollars?whiterock said:assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?FLBear5630 said:Smart, if you have the resources I would long all of Elon's stuff. We have turned the Nation over to him and being the wolf that he is h will set up a very favorable situation for his businesses. He is sort of a mix of Howard Hughes and now Rockefeller/Carnagie. He has really masterfully taken over.J.R. said:that's why I'm long Tesla, even being in the O&G business.FLBear5630 said:Watch what comes out of this, Musk is going to fund his companies through the Fed. I would bet on Neuro-link, SpaceX and Starlink as the big winners money-wise. SpaceX, Neuro-link and Tesla on regulations.J.R. said:
Trumpy Bear now calling for the elimination of the debt ceiling. Now, that's conservative. Between adding to the out of control debt and slapping dumb taxes on Canda and Mexico ....hum
T
I know what City Managers do. Tough job. Not only do they have real work to do, they have to manage the sensitivities of Mayors & Councilmen. They have to know where is the Overton Window on the Council. And they have to "guide" stuff thru that window. That involves "dialogue." Same dynamics exist on school boards, commissioners courts, etc..... Wheedling & politicking & arranging the landscape to facilitate the agenda is just the way the world works, buddy. In both the private and public sector. We judge leaders/managers on outcomes. Not saying means don't matter, but it sure doesn't matter how clean your system is if you have $40T in debt and structural $2T annual deficits. The outcome is horrible. We have to get the outcome where it needs to be, first. And if I'm working that problem, I'm damned sure not going to exclude people from my team who might benefit from fixing the problem. If I did that, my team wouldn't be worth much.FLBear5630 said:This time. Slippery slope. Soros and Musk are dead wrong. You want to talk about threat to Democracy? Quid pro quo or we will primary you with a billion dollars?whiterock said:assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?FLBear5630 said:Smart, if you have the resources I would long all of Elon's stuff. We have turned the Nation over to him and being the wolf that he is h will set up a very favorable situation for his businesses. He is sort of a mix of Howard Hughes and now Rockefeller/Carnagie. He has really masterfully taken over.J.R. said:that's why I'm long Tesla, even being in the O&G business.FLBear5630 said:Watch what comes out of this, Musk is going to fund his companies through the Fed. I would bet on Neuro-link, SpaceX and Starlink as the big winners money-wise. SpaceX, Neuro-link and Tesla on regulations.J.R. said:
Trumpy Bear now calling for the elimination of the debt ceiling. Now, that's conservative. Between adding to the out of control debt and slapping dumb taxes on Canda and Mexico ....hum
T
Small donors, county-level donors, do that. So do grassroots activists. That's politics. Not all donors are terribly ideological or partisan. That is more true for the big Waco donors than is the case elsewhere. But one of the most partisan-agnostic of them once told former US Rep Chet Edwards they'd sponsor primary/general challengers if Chet voted for the "Card Check" union bill. This donor said that as he was writing a max-donation check for the 20th time. And Chet voted against it, in so doing voting the interests of his district (a strong majority of which opposed the bill). It was a case of a donor advocating a policy that would benefit benefit all businesses in the district and which 2/3 of the voters in the district supported. Chet was only leaning toward voting for it for partisan reasons, national reasons. You could burn that donor at the stake because he had a business which also benefited from defeat of the bill, rather than telling him thank you for preventing Chet from passing legislation to help Democrat cronies (unions).
How about solving some of the problems, like the border before going the "Trust us" route. He has done nothing yet but appoint his friends, family and taken part in threatening Congress.
are you not watching what is happening before your eyes? Inauguration is a month away and dude is already solving problems.
Sorry, my training is in City Mgt, you will not get me to sign on to this rampant cronyism. We fought against this crap under TDR.
There's been no cronyism since TDR?
I think the difference is that Musk has the money, the forum and celebrity to do it. The public X comments give the perception that Musk is running things, Trump has ceded power and the big one how does this impact his companies and billions of Govt contracts? Then Trump adding in the Debt Ceiling. At the very least there is a perception issue. I am not naive, I know it happens, just has to be a cleaner way.whiterock said:I know what City Managers do. Tough job. Not only do they have real work to do, they have to manage the sensitivities of Mayors & Councilmen. They have to know where is the Overton Window on the Council. And they have to "guide" stuff thru that window. That involves "dialogue." Same dynamics exist on school boards, commissioners courts, etc..... Wheedling & politicking & arranging the landscape to facilitate the agenda is just the way the world works, buddy. In both the private and public sector. We judge leaders/managers on outcomes. Not saying means don't matter, but it sure doesn't matter how clean your system is if you have $40T in debt and structural $2T annual deficits. The outcome is horrible. We have to get the outcome where it needs to be, first. And if I'm working that problem, I'm damned sure not going to exclude people from my team who might benefit from fixing the problem. If I did that, my team wouldn't be worth much.FLBear5630 said:This time. Slippery slope. Soros and Musk are dead wrong. You want to talk about threat to Democracy? Quid pro quo or we will primary you with a billion dollars?whiterock said:assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?FLBear5630 said:Smart, if you have the resources I would long all of Elon's stuff. We have turned the Nation over to him and being the wolf that he is h will set up a very favorable situation for his businesses. He is sort of a mix of Howard Hughes and now Rockefeller/Carnagie. He has really masterfully taken over.J.R. said:that's why I'm long Tesla, even being in the O&G business.FLBear5630 said:Watch what comes out of this, Musk is going to fund his companies through the Fed. I would bet on Neuro-link, SpaceX and Starlink as the big winners money-wise. SpaceX, Neuro-link and Tesla on regulations.J.R. said:
Trumpy Bear now calling for the elimination of the debt ceiling. Now, that's conservative. Between adding to the out of control debt and slapping dumb taxes on Canda and Mexico ....hum
T
Small donors, county-level donors, do that. So do grassroots activists. That's politics. Not all donors are terribly ideological or partisan. That is more true for the big Waco donors than is the case elsewhere. But one of the most partisan-agnostic of them once told former US Rep Chet Edwards they'd sponsor primary/general challengers if Chet voted for the "Card Check" union bill. This donor said that as he was writing a max-donation check for the 20th time. And Chet voted against it, in so doing voting the interests of his district (a strong majority of which opposed the bill). It was a case of a donor advocating a policy that would benefit benefit all businesses in the district and which 2/3 of the voters in the district supported. Chet was only leaning toward voting for it for partisan reasons, national reasons. You could burn that donor at the stake because he had a business which also benefited from defeat of the bill, rather than telling him thank you for preventing Chet from passing legislation to help Democrat cronies (unions).
How about solving some of the problems, like the border before going the "Trust us" route. He has done nothing yet but appoint his friends, family and taken part in threatening Congress.
are you not watching what is happening before your eyes? Inauguration is a month away and dude is already solving problems.
Sorry, my training is in City Mgt, you will not get me to sign on to this rampant cronyism. We fought against this crap under TDR.
There's been no cronyism since TDR?
Team Trump is headed in the right direction, making positive impact before it even takes office. Curiously, Trump is still a month away from even being in power, and we already have completely unhinged claims that Teapot Dome is running amok. The neverTrumpers can be profoundly deranged at times.
Moderates accomplish derangement much more often than they get credit for, too......FLBear5630 said:I think the difference is that Musk has the money, the forum and celebrity to do it. The public X comments give the perception that Musk is running things, Trump has ceded power and the big one how does this impact his companies and billions of Govt contracts?whiterock said:I know what City Managers do. Tough job. Not only do they have real work to do, they have to manage the sensitivities of Mayors & Councilmen. They have to know where is the Overton Window on the Council. And they have to "guide" stuff thru that window. That involves "dialogue." Same dynamics exist on school boards, commissioners courts, etc..... Wheedling & politicking & arranging the landscape to facilitate the agenda is just the way the world works, buddy. In both the private and public sector. We judge leaders/managers on outcomes. Not saying means don't matter, but it sure doesn't matter how clean your system is if you have $40T in debt and structural $2T annual deficits. The outcome is horrible. We have to get the outcome where it needs to be, first. And if I'm working that problem, I'm damned sure not going to exclude people from my team who might benefit from fixing the problem. If I did that, my team wouldn't be worth much.FLBear5630 said:This time. Slippery slope. Soros and Musk are dead wrong. You want to talk about threat to Democracy? Quid pro quo or we will primary you with a billion dollars?whiterock said:
assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?
Small donors, county-level donors, do that. So do grassroots activists. That's politics. Not all donors are terribly ideological or partisan. That is more true for the big Waco donors than is the case elsewhere. But one of the most partisan-agnostic of them once told former US Rep Chet Edwards they'd sponsor primary/general challengers if Chet voted for the "Card Check" union bill. This donor said that as he was writing a max-donation check for the 20th time. And Chet voted against it, in so doing voting the interests of his district (a strong majority of which opposed the bill). It was a case of a donor advocating a policy that would benefit benefit all businesses in the district and which 2/3 of the voters in the district supported. Chet was only leaning toward voting for it for partisan reasons, national reasons. You could burn that donor at the stake because he had a business which also benefited from defeat of the bill, rather than telling him thank you for preventing Chet from passing legislation to help Democrat cronies (unions).
How about solving some of the problems, like the border before going the "Trust us" route. He has done nothing yet but appoint his friends, family and taken part in threatening Congress.
are you not watching what is happening before your eyes? Inauguration is a month away and dude is already solving problems.
Sorry, my training is in City Mgt, you will not get me to sign on to this rampant cronyism. We fought against this crap under TDR.
There's been no cronyism since TDR?
Team Trump is headed in the right direction, making positive impact before it even takes office. Curiously, Trump is still a month away from even being in power, and we already have completely unhinged claims that Teapot Dome is running amok. The neverTrumpers can be profoundly deranged at times.
Well, that's what blue media wants you to think. Reality is, Musk has no power whatsoever beyond whatever Trump delegates to him, which at this point is limited to running a Presidential commission on reducing waste & inefficiency in Government. Such has been done several times by admins on both sides of the aisle. No reason to suspect this one is any different.
Then Trump adding in the Debt Ceiling. At the very least there is a perception issue. I am not naive, I know it happens, just has to be a cleaner way.
Since when has politics ever been "clean?" (in any meaningful sense of the term).
The way it went down on the CR, caused a big perception issue and gave the Dems ammo. I just want the guy to do what he said on the Border and China, not to get side tracked with this stuff.
He doesn't want Dems to have debt limit as a hammer to use against him in future budget negotiations. That seems eminently prudent to me.
Everyone can be profoundly deranged at times! Never Trumpers to MAGA, there is no monololy on derangement!
Don't we all!whiterock said:Moderates accomplish derangement much more often than they get credit for, too......FLBear5630 said:I think the difference is that Musk has the money, the forum and celebrity to do it. The public X comments give the perception that Musk is running things, Trump has ceded power and the big one how does this impact his companies and billions of Govt contracts?whiterock said:I know what City Managers do. Tough job. Not only do they have real work to do, they have to manage the sensitivities of Mayors & Councilmen. They have to know where is the Overton Window on the Council. And they have to "guide" stuff thru that window. That involves "dialogue." Same dynamics exist on school boards, commissioners courts, etc..... Wheedling & politicking & arranging the landscape to facilitate the agenda is just the way the world works, buddy. In both the private and public sector. We judge leaders/managers on outcomes. Not saying means don't matter, but it sure doesn't matter how clean your system is if you have $40T in debt and structural $2T annual deficits. The outcome is horrible. We have to get the outcome where it needs to be, first. And if I'm working that problem, I'm damned sure not going to exclude people from my team who might benefit from fixing the problem. If I did that, my team wouldn't be worth much.FLBear5630 said:This time. Slippery slope. Soros and Musk are dead wrong. You want to talk about threat to Democracy? Quid pro quo or we will primary you with a billion dollars?whiterock said:
assuming you are correct (which of course you are not), wouldn't this be an improvement over the Soros led policies of the Biden/Obama eras?
Small donors, county-level donors, do that. So do grassroots activists. That's politics. Not all donors are terribly ideological or partisan. That is more true for the big Waco donors than is the case elsewhere. But one of the most partisan-agnostic of them once told former US Rep Chet Edwards they'd sponsor primary/general challengers if Chet voted for the "Card Check" union bill. This donor said that as he was writing a max-donation check for the 20th time. And Chet voted against it, in so doing voting the interests of his district (a strong majority of which opposed the bill). It was a case of a donor advocating a policy that would benefit benefit all businesses in the district and which 2/3 of the voters in the district supported. Chet was only leaning toward voting for it for partisan reasons, national reasons. You could burn that donor at the stake because he had a business which also benefited from defeat of the bill, rather than telling him thank you for preventing Chet from passing legislation to help Democrat cronies (unions).
How about solving some of the problems, like the border before going the "Trust us" route. He has done nothing yet but appoint his friends, family and taken part in threatening Congress.
are you not watching what is happening before your eyes? Inauguration is a month away and dude is already solving problems.
Sorry, my training is in City Mgt, you will not get me to sign on to this rampant cronyism. We fought against this crap under TDR.
There's been no cronyism since TDR?
Team Trump is headed in the right direction, making positive impact before it even takes office. Curiously, Trump is still a month away from even being in power, and we already have completely unhinged claims that Teapot Dome is running amok. The neverTrumpers can be profoundly deranged at times.
Well, that's what blue media wants you to think. Reality is, Musk has no power whatsoever beyond whatever Trump delegates to him, which at this point is limited to running a Presidential commission on reducing waste & inefficiency in Government. Such has been done several times by admins on both sides of the aisle. No reason to suspect this one is any different.
Then Trump adding in the Debt Ceiling. At the very least there is a perception issue. I am not naive, I know it happens, just has to be a cleaner way.
Since when has politics ever been "clean?" (in any meaningful sense of the term).
The way it went down on the CR, caused a big perception issue and gave the Dems ammo. I just want the guy to do what he said on the Border and China, not to get side tracked with this stuff.
He doesn't want Dems to have debt limit as a hammer to use against him in future budget negotiations. That seems eminently prudent to me.
Everyone can be profoundly deranged at times! Never Trumpers to MAGA, there is no monololy on derangement!
This is a good example of why we should give the U.S. government access to no more money than we absolutely have to https://t.co/KX1Q5ITvn9
— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) December 23, 2024
Redbrickbear said:This is a good example of why we should give the U.S. government access to no more money than we absolutely have to https://t.co/KX1Q5ITvn9
— Mike Lee (@BasedMikeLee) December 23, 2024
Elon Musk wants to ‘delete’ Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. But the agency has returned more than $19 billion in cash to people who have been scammed by financial institutions https://t.co/z527hBqVtZ
— EssenViews (@essenviews) December 24, 2024
Your understanding of the situation is upside-down and backwards.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 25, 2024
OF COURSE my companies and I would prefer to hire Americans and we DO, as that is MUCH easier than going through the incredibly painful and slow work visa process.
HOWEVER, there is a dire shortage of extremely…
The full answer here is complex.
— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) December 25, 2024
The outcome of any given company is the vector sum of the people within it. Improve the alignment of the individual vectors and their amplitude and the outcome will improve accordingly.
Humans can be thought of as hardware (inherent talent)…
