Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
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Last: 5 hrs ago by Mothra
FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:FLBear5630 said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.
So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?
Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.
Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.
Thanks in advance.
Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."
If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.
Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
So in none of these verses does scripture describe Mary as queen, much less say she should be honored on equal footing with the lord.
You're just making crap up at this point. It's kind of evil what you're doing actually.
Oops. And defeat has been ceded once one goes "ummm youre kinda evil" lmao and "ummm youre bad at debate" but with zero response as always. Youre being lapped.
Mothra said:FLBear5630 said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
So in none of these verses does scripture describe Mary as queen, much less say she should be honored on equal footing with the lord.
You're just making crap up at this point. It's kind of evil what you're doing actually.
Evil?
You keep hanging onto Scripture alone. Catholics do not subscribe to Scripture alone. So, what is your point in continuing to ask for the same thing? There are scriptures that various people on here have identified that support the position that the Catholic Church takes. If you are looking for a verbatim translation, you are not going to find it.
The question I have with your line of thinking is - Is the Bible supposed to be taken literally? Was there a Mustard Tree? Where is the field that the person buried their talents? How do you bury your talents? Jesus was a Lamb? Or was he a loaf of bread? I thought he was a Carpenter not a Shepard? The crown of 12 stars was not really a crown.
Confusing, but they must exist exactly as written as we know the Gospels are literal and only meant to be taken that way? You have told us so, if it is not in the Bible exactly as written it is not true.
The problem with interjecting yourself in a conversation is you don't understand the context. That is exactly what happened here.
If you will read the conversation between myself and Freedom, you will see that he claims that the "exact words of scripture" support the position that Mary is queen and should be honored on an equal footing with the Lord.
Yes, I am very much aware the Catholics use extra scripture sources to come up with their misguided beliefs. If you would've read this entire post, you would've seen me make that point on the number of occasions. That is not in dispute.
Please post link of me (or anyone here) saying "mary should be honored on an equal footing with the Lord". Ill hang up and listen.
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Nowhere in those verses does Jesus call Mary a Queen, nor ever tell anyone to pray to her.
Kind of a big problem there .
Pfffft nah. Your logic breaks down hundreds of times. Great job Luther. Confusing some to their own demise
But even Luther venerated Mary greatly. You gots some swiss cheese with all your logic holes
So let's review for those scoring at home:
I noted that Scripture does not make Mary a Queen, nor does Jesus ever tell us to pray to her.
Fre3dombear responded as follows:
'Pfffft nah.'
Empty expletive, non-substantial.
'Your logic breaks down hundreds of times.'
Unsupported claim, and no clear applicability to my statement. Fre3dombear does not even dispute my points.
'Great job Luther.'
Apparently an attempt at a personal insult, always telling in religious debates.
'Confusing some to their own demise'
Not sure what he is even trying to say. Is F3 claiming failing to pray to Mary is a threat to one's soul?
Strange.
'But even Luther venerated Mary greatly.'
Goalpost move. Praying to someone is a really, really bad idea consistently prohibited in Scripture,
And many Protestants, including me, respect and admire Mary. We just don't confuse her with Christ.
'You gots some swiss cheese with all your logic holes '
A mild and frankly weak personal insult again, and once again lacking any valid context or cogency.
Can't award any points. Complete miss there, Fre3dombear.
Much effort put into this post accomplishing nothing disputing nothing and sharing nothing more than your opinion. You debate as well as Mothra
Youre following an invented faith thats barely 500 years old. Zero tradition or church father writings point to any writings before Luther wanted to bed a nun. Much to ponder there for you. AND even he would disagree with the concoction the for profit bible study guys have led you to in skinny jeans.
Forest Bueller III said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Amen.
There is one name under heaven by which we are saved. That name is Jesus Christ.
Welp, that changes everything to something nobody is disputing.
ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:
King Charles mother was Queen Elizabeth. (sorry, couldn't resist)
We are using man-made titles, good point. How else would you describe to men (men/women/children)?
Jesus consistently spoke in parables and used analogous methods to convey a point. If you took Jesus literally you would think he was a farmer talking of livestock, mustard trees, and fields. But, those that listen know he was talking of more.
Building off of John 19? How would those in the times of Rome and Kings describe honoring someone? Calling them royalty, perhaps? How would you get that point across, 1500-2000 years ago?
Is it so outlandish that the used the term "Queen"? The point was to get people to understand and at the time most were uneducated. Not to speak as the Pharisees that only they could understand.
Any prayer I have ever heard, 62 years a Catholic, is as an intermediary, which by definition is below the top. A concept that is as old as time and is even described in the Bible with Herod's wife interceding on Chris's behalf. There was no illusion that she was an equal with Pilate.
As ALL the Catholics on here have told you, we do not put Mary on the same level as Jesus or God. We should know.
This conversation brings up some very interesting points. How literal is the Bible? If Jesus spoke in parables to get across messages, should it meant to be taken literal. For that matter, the same with the "man-made" titles? How literal? Do you really think that people think there is a throne like on earth in heaven? Maybe it is a form we can understand?
But, I have a tendency to be a bit more abstract and think in concepts, not literal interpretation.
Sorry.
I said Charles but I was thinking of his son who will be King but his mother was only a princess.
The point is that none of this matters as there is no scripture anywhere which states that the Kingdom of God has a queen.
Some parts of the Bible are parables. Jesus spoke in parables, but he also made it clear when he was talking in parables.
Other parts are not parables. The scriptures describe throne in heaven for God, Jesus and the elders. It does not say that these descriptions are parables, so yes... i do believe that there will be a throne in heaven.
I have talked with many Catholics over many decades, and many of them have said that they were taught that Mary has a thrown in heaven right next to Jesus.
These are the kinds of things that are taught in many catholic schools.
To your point Mary being an intermediary, the Bible makes it very clear that we have only one intermediary and that is Jesus.
1 Timothy 2:5
John 14:6
Hebrews 9:15
Galatians 3: 19-20
There are so many verses which make it very clear that Jesus is our mediator, and not a single one that makes an exception for Mary to also be our mediator too.
I know you have said that you hate Paul, but Peter himself instructed the early Christians to obey his letters, and he even called them scriptures.
2 Peter 3:15-16 NIV
[15] Bear in mind that our Lord's patience means salvation, just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him. [16] He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction.
You Catholics like to falsely claim that Peter was the first pope, and yet you also like to ignore much of Paul's letters even though your "first pope" tells you otherwise.
I was teasing about King Charles, I get the point.
This all reminds me of a joke a the Pastor of the convent told me years ago in Amarillo where we used to go to mass.
"A man arrives at the gates of heaven. St. Peter asks, "Religion?"
The man says, "Catholic." St. Peter looks down his list, and says, "Go to room 24, but be very quiet as you pass room 8."
Another man arrives at the gates of heaven. "Religion?"
"Jewish."
"Go to room 18, but be very quiet as you pass room 8."
A third man arrives at the gates. "Religion?"
"Moslem."
"Go to room 11, but be very quiet as you pass room 8."
The man says, "I can understand there being different rooms for different religions, but why must I be quiet when I pass room 8?"
St. Peter tells him, "Well the Protestants are in room 8, and they think they're the only ones here."
I have heard it different ways, but you get the point. We all think we are right. Some just are a bit more inclusive than others. I Have Wisconsin Synod Lutheran in-laws for 40 years now, they make you look like BWA (using a group you may know that is very liberal).
If you want inclusivity, then Hell is your place. No one is turned away from Hell... they accept everyone.
In contrast, the scriptures make it very clear that only a few will find the path to Heaven.
I think it is telling that you include the Muslims. I know that the catechisms teach you that Muslims will be in Heaven, but that is just a total lie. One cannot be a Muslim without believing that Jesus was NOT the Son of God, nor did he die on the cross, nor did he rise from the dead. It is impossible to be a Muslim and be saved, despite what the magisterium might tell you.
Heaven is not about inclusivity. It is about the faithful followers of Jesus, and no others will be there.
The ignorance in this thread with absurd levels of confidence is something to behold. Now youre speaking of catechism? Practicing Muslims will reach salvation? Comical
ShooterTX said:FLBear5630 said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
So in none of these verses does scripture describe Mary as queen, much less say she should be honored on equal footing with the lord.
You're just making crap up at this point. It's kind of evil what you're doing actually.
Evil?
You keep hanging onto Scripture alone. Catholics do not subscribe to Scripture alone. So, what is your point in continuing to ask for the same thing? There are scriptures that various people on here have identified that support the position that the Catholic Church takes. If you are looking for a verbatim translation, you are not going to find it.
The question I have with your line of thinking is - Is the Bible supposed to be taken literally? Was there a Mustard Tree? Where is the field that the person buried their talents? How do you bury your talents? Jesus was a Lamb? Or was he a loaf of bread? I thought he was a Carpenter not a Shepard? The crown of 12 stars was not really a crown.
Confusing, but they must exist exactly as written as we know the Gospels are literal and only meant to be taken that way? You have told us so, if it is not in the Bible exactly as written it is not true.
Every protestant knows that there are parts of the Bible that are parables and others that are imagery. It is important to study to understand the meaning behind the imagery.
But that is not the same as saying that Jesus said one thing, but He meant the complete opposite. Jesus said that He is the only way to the Father, and you would have us believe that what He actually meant is that there are many paths to the Father.
You may think that you are saying that the Bible isn't literal, but what you are actually doing is accusing Jesus of being a liar. It is one thing to interpret & understand a parable, but it is something totally different to say that Jesus was saying the exact opposite of what He stated in His own words.
In fact youre making our point. Protestants have near 40,000 "ways to the father". Even in this very thread of 10 geniuses theres probably 10 ways in which you believe you each are doing the faith exactly as Jesus instructed and in saying "I believe " are in your merry way to Heaven. Simple. Easy peasy lemon squeazy.
. That is the main issue with protestantism. Every next building you walk into has their own spin on it with a guy hoping to Preach his way to fortunes and feeding his family.
Zero chance any could know they are right as its just based in someone cracking open the book and speaking out what they think
Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
This post is amazing.
Every church worthy of the name says you have to believe in Christ, confess your sins, and accept Jesus as Lord.
Not sure how F3 gets 40k different ways.
Maybe he could name some of those 'different ways to the Father' he sees promoted.
Every church worthy of the name says you have to believe in Christ, confess your sins, and accept Jesus as Lord.
Not sure how F3 gets 40k different ways.
Maybe he could name some of those 'different ways to the Father' he sees promoted.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
Win votes? Best of luck in your campaign.
No Catholic disputes this. Try again.
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
Win votes? Best of luck in your campaign.
No Catholic disputes this. Try again.
You just posted that Protestants have 'forty thousand' other ways, on no evidence, while ignoring the post pointing out that your pope thinks Muslims can go to Heaven without becoming Christians.
So did someone hack your account and post in your place?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
There are not over a hundred people in the United States who hate the Catholic Church. There are millions, however, who hate what they wrongly believe to be the Catholic Churchwhich is, of course, quite a different thing... If the Church taught or believed any one of these things [common misconceptions, like adoring statues or granting permission to sin], it should be hated, but the fact is that the Church does not believe nor teach any one of them.
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
Win votes? Best of luck in your campaign.
No Catholic disputes this. Try again.
You just posted that Protestants have 'forty thousand' other ways, on no evidence, while ignoring the post pointing out that your pope thinks Muslims can go to Heaven without becoming Christians.
So did someone hack your account and post in your place?
The Catholic church does not teach you can be muslim and go to heaven or jewish and frankly protestant given many of the things protestants deny that Jesus said and what they believe
How God sorts that out i dont know as it is up to Him to judge, but i do know what the Catholic faith says on these matters.
You should read further if someone wrongly taught you this. It is incorrect.
The 40,000 protestant faiths is something protestants have to reconcile for themselves. Thats not an issue for me personally. I can only try to help them.
"No evidence"? - these numbers are widely available from many many sources. Or one could just drive around town and look. Each of them "knowing" they are right
There isn't a single, agreed-upon number, but estimates range from hundreds to tens of thousands of Protestant denominations worldwide, with figures like over 45,000 or around 200-300 major groups, depending heavily on how "denomination" is defined
#receipts
Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
There is no Queen in heaven. Jesus is Lord & King alone.
There is no reason to believe Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus because there never was a reason for her to do so. In fact, that would have violated God's command. Also, the gospels make clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters, some of whom are named.
Lastly, Christian's have no reason to pray to anyone but God (Father, Son or Spirit) and no reason to expect an answer from anyone else. Prayer is an act of worship and praying to someone other than God is a form of idolatry.
“Incline my heart to your testimonies, and not to selfish gain!”
Psalm 119:36
Psalm 119:36
historian said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
There is no Queen in heaven. Jesus is Lord & King alone.
There is no reason to believe Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus because there never was a reason for her to do so. In fact, that would have violated God's command. Also, the gospels make clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters, some of whom are named.
Lastly, Christian's have no reason to pray to anyone but God (Father, Son or Spirit) and no reason to expect an answer from anyone else. Prayer is an act of worship and praying to someone other than God is a form of idolatry.
You guys sure out a lot of time in to stuff that can't be proven or have little impact on your lives.
LOL at a guy ignoring important thread posts, repeats his bias as if it was established fact, then has the arrogance to hashtag 'receipts' as if he proved anything.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
Win votes? Best of luck in your campaign.
No Catholic disputes this. Try again.
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
[url=https://www.usccb.org/committees/ecumenical-interreligious-affairs/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-islam]Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam | USCCB
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet,"
Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
[/url]There are many more Vatican statements in the same sentiment.
But sure, blame the Protestant churches for what you teach.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Pretty sure Paul never meant 'deny the Gospel in order to win votes'.
It's like RC's think Jesus didn't mean it when He said 'no man comes to the Father but by Me'
Win votes? Best of luck in your campaign.
No Catholic disputes this. Try again.
Second Vatican Council, Lumen Gentium 16, November 21, 1964
"But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place among whom are the Muslims: these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day."
[url=https://www.usccb.org/committees/ecumenical-interreligious-affairs/vatican-council-and-papal-statements-islam]Vatican Council and Papal Statements on Islam | USCCB
"The Church has also a high regard for the Muslims. They worship God, who is one, living and subsistent, merciful and almighty, the Creator of heaven and earth (Cf. St. Gregory VII, Letter III, 21 to Anazir [Al-Nasir], King of Mauretania PL, 148.451A.), who has spoken to men. They strive to submit themselves without reserve to the hidden decrees of God, just as Abraham submitted himself to God's plan, to whose faith Muslims eagerly link their own. Although not acknowledging him as God, they venerate Jesus as a prophet,"
Second Vatican Council, Nostra Aetate 3, October 28, 1965
[/url]There are many more Vatican statements in the same sentiment.
But sure, blame the Protestant churches for what you teach.
Like a good Protestant youll snag one sentence out of a million and think youve figured something out.
Catholic church is clear muslims cant make it to Heaven as the only way is through Jesus Christ. If you keep Reading youll find it. Clear as day.
Oldbear83 said:
LOL at a guy ignoring important thread posts, repeats his bias as if it was established fact, then has the arrogance to hashtag 'receipts' as if he proved anything.
"Important thread posts"? Lmao. According to whom?
#receipts. You only have to read but your bias blinds you. Common problem Around here with the things yall obsess over
Its all in plain sight for you but many have eyes but cannot see.
Oldbear83 said:
Every church worthy of the name says you have to believe in Christ, confess your sins, and accept Jesus as Lord.
Son, you sin more than you know. I sincerely hope you will repent and turn back to Christ, who alone can save you.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
historian said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
There is no Queen in heaven. Jesus is Lord & King alone.
There is no reason to believe Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus because there never was a reason for her to do so. In fact, that would have violated God's command. Also, the gospels make clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters, some of whom are named.
Lastly, Christian's have no reason to pray to anyone but God (Father, Son or Spirit) and no reason to expect an answer from anyone else. Prayer is an act of worship and praying to someone other than God is a form of idolatry.
Please state your proof of Mary not being ever virgin? Which command of God would she have violated?
Oldbear83 said:
Son, you sin more than you know. I sincerely hope you will repent and turn back to Christ, who alone can save you.
Son? Lmao. I have a daddy and you dam sure aint him bro
Now you judge me? Careful. Dont let your emotions and doubt get the best of you. Calm down. Breathe. Slowly.
If you werent so Clearly ignorant, given your very words, youd know any Catholic knows only Christ can save them so great job stating the obvious. Fools abound here clearly. Which of course speaks to the muslim ignorance above
yep, and Abraham called Lot his brother.. but they werent brothers. They term in hebrew can refer to family other than brothers.historian said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
There is no Queen in heaven. Jesus is Lord & King alone.
There is no reason to believe Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus because there never was a reason for her to do so. In fact, that would have violated God's command. Also, the gospels make clear that Jesus had brothers and sisters, some of whom are named.
Lastly, Christian's have no reason to pray to anyone but God (Father, Son or Spirit) and no reason to expect an answer from anyone else. Prayer is an act of worship and praying to someone other than God is a form of idolatry.
Maybe these brothers and sisters of Jesus are actually cousins
Mary the wife of Clopas is the sister of Mary the mother of Jesus..
Matthew 27:55-56 lists Mary the mother of James and Joseph but does not list the others or Jesus. The two listed in Matthew are two listed in Mark 6:3
John 19:25 and matthew 27:55-56 both are of the same time where john 19 lists mary wife of clopas which may be the Mary listed in matthew 27 as there is no listing in Matthew referencing this mary as the mother of Jesus.
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Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much anger and spite in that post, son.
You just might want to mention your posts' verbiage to your priest next confession.
You just might want to mention your posts' verbiage to your priest next confession.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo much anger and spite in that post, son.
You just might want to mention your posts' verbiage to your priest next confession.
Zero anger or emotion (well from me at least. Clearly ive struck a nerve with you). . Just knowledge bombs dropping. The name calling is coming from you with the "son" nonsense. You sound like an old boomer stuck in a blindness you still have time to turn away from.
While i attend confession regularly but not as regularly as i partake the body and blood of my Lord and Savior including today, i Will certainly remember to Pray for you and ask a blessing for your judging me and us lowly Catholics
Now, care to make a coherent argument or does calling people son give you the mental
Masturbation you need to Feel accomplished?
Ah, more lies/insults/condescension from our resident Caiaphas.
The Lord will prevail, nonetheless.
The Lord will prevail, nonetheless.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
https://t.co/pDAUWFHh1R pic.twitter.com/BnbXiCJNWi
— Adrian F. Pascal 🇻🇦 (@deusimpera) January 11, 2026
Oldbear83 said:
Ah, more lies/insults/condescension from our resident Caiaphas.
The Lord will prevail, nonetheless.
From the guy or gal name calling someone "son".
Blind angry old fool it appears. Keep up the name calling though. Winning arguments there. Once one has lost the name calling begins
Protestants project what they think Catholics do
As "earning " When in fact we just trying to be "obeying"
As "earning " When in fact we just trying to be "obeying"
Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.
It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2
ShooterTX
ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:FLBear5630 said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:BUDOS said:
Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.
Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.
Yep and only one is the Queen
Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.
Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.
You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose
I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.
Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.
And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.
I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.
I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.
Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.
. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:
Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."
This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.
Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.
Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.
You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?
Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.
Just more scripture to consider.
As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.
I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know
You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.
Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.
Thanks in advance.
Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.
You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.
Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"
Deflect ^3
Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers
Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."
Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?
Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)
A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there
Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.
I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.
Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...
It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22
Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.
It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2
Or maybe you can take Catholics at their word that they don't worship Mary as you say they do. I do not tell you what your believes are and how wrong they are.