Oldbear83 said:

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BTD clone: "Thats not judging. Thats informative and stating the facts. Judging me and others wont change thise facts".

Almost word for word the same behavior.

Pharisees come in many colors, it seems.

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What's BTD? Baptist Theological Deity?


From the name caller that wont defend their points. It is a dying faith that that appeared a few hundred years ago with no basis in any documented beliefs ither than youre being your own pope

Oops. Is that name calling?

Your best argument has been calling people perjoratives and then redefining terms when you don't have a cogent argument. Weak sauce.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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historian said:

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So was Jesus speaking in Hebrew or Aramaic while on the cross? The book of Genesis was originally in Hebrew but Aramaic was more common at the time of Christ. One of His statements from the cross was Aramaic, as the gospels say so explicitly (when he quoted the Psalm).

Regardless, there is nothing in scripture that suggests the worship of Mary. She was still human and a sinner. Worshipping her would be idolatry which is expressly prohibited over and over again in the scriptures.

We can honor her as an honored woman chosen by God for a special purpose in much the same way we honor Moses, David, or Ruth. But that's as far as it goes.

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Yeah nobody worships her. The eastern orthodox make the sign of the cross before any intercession lol

We can ask her to pray for us because the prayers of the righteous availeth much and those in Christ are alive. That same logic, rejected consistently, would forbid asking any Christian to pray on your behalf. And no serious Protestant believes that.

Who has been more glorified by God, more sanctified by grace, more united to Christ? If the prayers of a righteous man availeth much, what shall we say of the prayers of the one whom the angel greeted as "full of grace," whom Elizabeth called "blessed among women," and whom the Holy Spirit overshadowed such that she bore God in the flesh?

God is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for all live to Him" (Luke 20:38). The saints are not annihilated at death. They are more alive than we are. They stand before the throne of the Lamb (Revelation 7), they cry out in intercession (Revelation 6:9-10), they are aware of what transpires on earth (Luke 15:7, 10; Hebrews 12:1).

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Totally unsupported and unbiblical schlock, mischaracterizing verses that in no way support the practice you are defending.

There are no verses that suggest, much less state, praying to humans.

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You claim asking Mary to pray for us is "praying to humans." But you ask living humans to pray for you constantly. The only way to reject Marian intercession on those grounds is to also reject asking your pastor, your mother, or anyone else to intercede. If your objection is that she's dead, that's the argument that was already answered: God is not the God of the dead but of the living (Luke 20:38), and the saints in Revelation 5:8 are explicitly depicted presenting the prayers of the faithful before God's throne. That's not eisegesis. That's the text.

On "no verses support praying to humans": Revelation 6:9-10 shows the martyrs under the altar crying out, aware of earthly events. Revelation 5:8 shows the elders offering up the prayers of the saints. Hebrews 12:1 places us surrounded by the cloud of witnesses. You need to actually exegete these passages, not wave them away.

Why does death sever the communion of saints for you when Scripture nowhere teaches that, and when the living Church has never believed it?

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It's honestly incredible to me that you would compare praying to a dead person to asking a brother or sister in Christ to pray for you.

Apples to bowling balls. What an absurd comparison.

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You see, when you die as a Protestant Christian, you gone. Completely severed. Worm food. NADA. Zilch. So sad All those Bible verses to the contrary and even those in the books they removed from the Bible that were inconvenient. They simply ignore like a fart in the wind They become at death it seems.

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Irrelevant comment to the topic of hand. But as usual, you are having difficulty coming up with a cogent retort, so you resort to insults.

You are going to be quite surprised on the day of judgment, and not in a good way.

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And there it is. The Protestant Christian wirh such pride and hubris and judgement of souls. They can't help themselves. Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to
Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul. We don't judge. We leave it to the Just Judge.

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You project more than any poster on this board. Constantly engage in prideful personal attacks on others, and then try to play the victim and good guy when given a taste of your own medicine.

I hope you find Jesus - the real Jesus - before it's too late. It's going to be quite hot where you're headed.

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Nah. You project nonstop and loudest when wrong. Stick to teying to defend your position versus judging souls.

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So in other words don't do what you do

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The only ones name calling and getting emotional are there to be seen. Defend a position. Otherwise you just waste disk space.

Oldbear83 said:

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BTD clone: "Thats not judging. Thats informative and stating the facts. Judging me and others wont change thise facts".

Almost word for word the same behavior.

Pharisees come in many colors, it seems.

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See, I don't get this kind of thinking. If it's "Pharisee" to judge that a person's belief system is unbiblical and anti-gospel, and thus leading that person to Hell, then Jesus and his apostles are the most Pharisee of us all.

The problem with FreedomBear, is that his "facts" and thus his "judgement" are just wrong, and painfully so, and that's been demonstrated repeatedly. But that doesn't mean that judging people's beliefs based on Scripture, history, facts, and logic to be wrong and thus sending them to Hell, is wrong or "Pharisee", as if it's something Christians should not do. In fact, it's what Christians ARE SUPPOSED to believe, AND do. Otherwise, what's the point of the gospel and Christianity?

If you don't think FreedomBear's beliefs, or any other Roman Catholic's beliefs that are in line with the official teaching of their church does indeed lead them to Hell, then I have to ask - what is it that YOU really believe in?

Oldbear83 said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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" It's going to be quite hot where you're headed."

Assuming you don't mean Arizona, a statement like that to a believing Christian is also judgmental and does not serve our Lord, methinks.

Keep in mind I share your opinion on the issue being discussed. It's just that none of us humans gets to wield that gavel when souls are the focus.

There is a difference between sowing seed, and throwing it into someone's face.

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Just wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. He already announced eternal damnation on me

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Asked Jesus about that. He laughed and told me no one here has that authority, please try to act like we all serve the same Father.

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And the Protestant Christian fracturing continues….

Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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" It's going to be quite hot where you're headed."

Assuming you don't mean Arizona, a statement like that to a believing Christian is also judgmental and does not serve our Lord, methinks.

Keep in mind I share your opinion on the issue being discussed. It's just that none of us humans gets to wield that gavel when souls are the focus.

There is a difference between sowing seed, and throwing it into someone's face.

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Just wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. He already announced eternal damnation on me

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Asked Jesus about that. He laughed and told me no one here has that authority, please try to act like we all serve the same Father.

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And the Protestant Christian fracturing continues….

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Not at all <chuckle>.

You might as reasonably contend that a debate means all discussing the issue are enemies. Which is to say, projection.

Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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" It's going to be quite hot where you're headed."

Assuming you don't mean Arizona, a statement like that to a believing Christian is also judgmental and does not serve our Lord, methinks.

Keep in mind I share your opinion on the issue being discussed. It's just that none of us humans gets to wield that gavel when souls are the focus.

There is a difference between sowing seed, and throwing it into someone's face.

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Just wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. He already announced eternal damnation on me

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Asked Jesus about that. He laughed and told me no one here has that authority, please try to act like we all serve the same Father.

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And the Protestant Christian fracturing continues….

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Not at all <chuckle>.

You might as reasonably contend that a debate means all discussing the issue are enemies. Which is to say, projection.

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40,000 faiths from the one true faith. What chance does one have?

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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" It's going to be quite hot where you're headed."

Assuming you don't mean Arizona, a statement like that to a believing Christian is also judgmental and does not serve our Lord, methinks.

Keep in mind I share your opinion on the issue being discussed. It's just that none of us humans gets to wield that gavel when souls are the focus.

There is a difference between sowing seed, and throwing it into someone's face.

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Just wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. He already announced eternal damnation on me

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Asked Jesus about that. He laughed and told me no one here has that authority, please try to act like we all serve the same Father.

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And the Protestant Christian fracturing continues….

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Not at all <chuckle>.

You might as reasonably contend that a debate means all discussing the issue are enemies. Which is to say, projection.

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40,000 faiths from the one true faith. What chance does one have?

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At the risk of offending, I submit that there are a number of people calling themselves Roman Catholic and Christian who will be very unhappy when they stand before Christ. Just as there are a number of Southern Baptists. Episcopalians, Unitarians, and so on, who find themselves other than what they imagine on that day.

Even in the Old Testament, there are accounts of non-Israelites who pleased God with their faith and service. And even though Jesus plainly said in Matthew that He was there only for the lost sheep of Israel, he showed mercy and grace on many who asked Him who were not Jews. Indeed, Jesus had great praise for a Roman Centurion whose faith impressed Him.

Doctrine is a very good tool to help us grow in faith. But none of us should pretend we are the Master, or that we perfectly reflect His example or teaching. That's part of why the Church is community, and why we care not only to correct errors if we see them, but also why we encourage one another and commend others when they hit the mark.

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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" It's going to be quite hot where you're headed."

Assuming you don't mean Arizona, a statement like that to a believing Christian is also judgmental and does not serve our Lord, methinks.

Keep in mind I share your opinion on the issue being discussed. It's just that none of us humans gets to wield that gavel when souls are the focus.

There is a difference between sowing seed, and throwing it into someone's face.

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Just wanting him to get a taste of his own medicine. He already announced eternal damnation on me

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Asked Jesus about that. He laughed and told me no one here has that authority, please try to act like we all serve the same Father.

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And the Protestant Christian fracturing continues….

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Not at all <chuckle>.

You might as reasonably contend that a debate means all discussing the issue are enemies. Which is to say, projection.

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40,000 faiths from the one true faith. What chance does one have?

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At the risk of offending, I submit that there are a number of people calling themselves Roman Catholic and Christian who will be very unhappy when they stand before Christ. Just as there are a number of Southern Baptists. Episcopalians, Unitarians, and so on, who find themselves other than what they imagine on that day.

Even in the Old Testament, there are accounts of non-Israelites who pleased God with their faith and service. And even though Jesus plainly said in Matthew that He was there only for the lost sheep of Israel, he showed mercy and grace on many who asked Him who were not Jews. Indeed, Jesus had great praise for a Roman Centurion whose faith impressed Him.

Doctrine is a very good tool to help us grow in faith. But none of us should pretend we are the Master, or that we perfectly reflect His example or teaching. That's part of why the Church is community, and why we care not only to correct errors if we see them, but also why we encourage one another and commend others when they hit the mark.

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100%. This is spoken of ad nauseum throughout the history of the church . We are in a journey and should always be open to learning and better understanding the faith.

As even Jesus said in for example Matthew:

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day: Lord, Lord, have not we prophesied in thy name, and cast out devils in thy name, and done many miracles in thy name?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity.

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

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So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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I know you and Busty don't get along, but you're selling him way short to put him in the same category.

Freedom has trouble stringing two sentences together. The man can't express a cogent thought most of the time.

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.

There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.

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So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.

"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."

I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.

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Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.

Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling

Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao

My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.

Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.

Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional

That was quite entertaining . Lmao

Mothra said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.

For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.

I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.

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I know you and Busty don't get along, but you're selling him way short to put him in the same category.

Freedom has trouble stringing two sentences together. The man can't express a cogent thought most of the time.

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The extreme irony of OldBear's assertion that I'M FreedomBear's twin brother when OldBear is his carbon copy....

I have not known another person on this forum with the clockwork tendency to project exactly what he does onto other people and play the victim when he is called out, than OldBear. Even his calling me Freedom's twin brother is a pure projection in of itself. That's why I think he shares the dubious distinction that you crowned Freedom with. They are literally cut from the same cloth.