Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
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1743 Replies |
Last: 7 min ago by Coke Bear
Not mine.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Don't give me a cop out answer. Give me the answer that reflects truthfully what is in your heart - would you be able to know on your own that according to Scripture, murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong, without being told so by a magisterium?
I can. So can every other rational Christian. How about you?
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Don't give me a cop out answer. Give me the answer that reflects truthfully what is in your heart - would you be able to know on your own that according to Scripture, murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong, without being told so by a magisterium?
I can. So can every other rational Christian. How about you?
I can't answer for what I would do without the upbringing that I had. I was raised theologically and morally conservative. While I strayed for a time in my youth, my beliefs on those issues remained the same. I don't see them ever changing.
But you're asking a very different question. You're asking whether I can know right from wrong on my own. A lot of people seem to think they can. The results are never good. I can't assume I'd be any better than anyone else.
That's not to say the Bible isn't clear. The problem is that fallen human beings can always find ways to delude themselves. We can say it's wrong to kill, except for brown people or the unborn. We can cite the rule with great enthusiasm while failing in its application. This is why you and a Bible all by yourself aren't enough.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Don't give me a cop out answer. Give me the answer that reflects truthfully what is in your heart - would you be able to know on your own that according to Scripture, murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong, without being told so by a magisterium?
I can. So can every other rational Christian. How about you?
I can't answer for what I would do without the upbringing that I had. I was raised theologically and morally conservative. While I strayed for a time in my youth, my beliefs on those issues remained the same. I don't see them ever changing.
But you're asking a very different question. You're asking whether I can know right from wrong on my own. A lot of people seem to think they can. The results are never good. I can't assume I'd be any better than anyone else.
That's not to say the Bible isn't clear. The problem is that fallen human beings can always find ways to delude themselves. We can say it's wrong to kill, except for brown people or the unborn. We can cite the rule with great enthusiasm while failing in its application. This is why you and a Bible all by yourself aren't enough.
So... you CAN'T know for yourself that murder, rape, and gay marriage are wrong according to Scripture?
Thank you for demonstrating the ridiculousness of the Roman Catholic position.
You and the most moral army in the world have the same Ten Commandments that I do. If you don't know it, how can I?BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Don't give me a cop out answer. Give me the answer that reflects truthfully what is in your heart - would you be able to know on your own that according to Scripture, murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong, without being told so by a magisterium?
I can. So can every other rational Christian. How about you?
I can't answer for what I would do without the upbringing that I had. I was raised theologically and morally conservative. While I strayed for a time in my youth, my beliefs on those issues remained the same. I don't see them ever changing.
But you're asking a very different question. You're asking whether I can know right from wrong on my own. A lot of people seem to think they can. The results are never good. I can't assume I'd be any better than anyone else.
That's not to say the Bible isn't clear. The problem is that fallen human beings can always find ways to delude themselves. We can say it's wrong to kill, except for brown people or the unborn. We can cite the rule with great enthusiasm while failing in its application. This is why you and a Bible all by yourself aren't enough.
So... you CAN'T know for yourself that murder, rape, and gay marriage are wrong according to Scripture?
Thank you for demonstrating the ridiculousness of the Roman Catholic position.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
Still not hearing an answer - based on your understanding of Scripture and guidance from others, would you be able to discern that your magisterium was wrong on your own?
Not necessarily. I would still have my opinions, but ultimately I'd be in the same position as anyone else relying on their own wisdom and that of their peers.
Don't give me a cop out answer. Give me the answer that reflects truthfully what is in your heart - would you be able to know on your own that according to Scripture, murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong, without being told so by a magisterium?
I can. So can every other rational Christian. How about you?
I can't answer for what I would do without the upbringing that I had. I was raised theologically and morally conservative. While I strayed for a time in my youth, my beliefs on those issues remained the same. I don't see them ever changing.
But you're asking a very different question. You're asking whether I can know right from wrong on my own. A lot of people seem to think they can. The results are never good. I can't assume I'd be any better than anyone else.
That's not to say the Bible isn't clear. The problem is that fallen human beings can always find ways to delude themselves. We can say it's wrong to kill, except for brown people or the unborn. We can cite the rule with great enthusiasm while failing in its application. This is why you and a Bible all by yourself aren't enough.
So... you CAN'T know for yourself that murder, rape, and gay marriage are wrong according to Scripture?
Thank you for demonstrating the ridiculousness of the Roman Catholic position.
You and the most moral army in the world have the same Ten Commandments that I do. If you don't know it, how can I?
Get some sleep. You're not making sense again.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"
Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"
Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.
So, by presenting the evidence that you were wrong, is this your admission?
No idea. Whatever you say, man.BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"
Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.
So, by presenting the evidence that you were wrong, is this your admission?
Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"
Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.
So, by presenting the evidence that you were wrong, is this your admission?
No idea. Whatever you say, man.
So you really don't see that you're representation of what I said was completely wrong?
You keep living up to your dense/dishonest reputation.
Discouraging. One day I really hope I can have an actual, honest conversation with you. Looks like I have to wait for another day.
Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
You put it there.
Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.
For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.
I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.
You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.
There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.
So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.
"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."
I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.
Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.
Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling
Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao
My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.
Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.
Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional
That was quite entertaining . Lmao
You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?
LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.
Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.
Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.
Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!
Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.
All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.
LOL. More projection.
I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?
Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.
Good luck!
Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.
Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.
I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.
Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.
Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.
More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.
If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.
Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.
1) never suddenly changed anything
2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?
3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.
You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory
4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived
Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice
Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith
Shared With extreme bravery…
Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?
Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.
So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?
"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven
Mary Mother of God
So there is such a thing as a sinless human? Paul and even Christ himself would be very surprised by that. And for those who aren't sinless, they'll go to this made up place called purgatory? A place never mentioned in scripture?
Can you tell me of an example of a sinless human in the Bible, other than Christ that is.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
" I guess that was a lie.
Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.
BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:Sam Lowry said:BusyTarpDuster2017 said:
Anyone want to try my question that's been dodged?
If the Roman Catholic/Orthodox "magisterium" were to declare that murder, rape, and gay marriage were now all blessed by God, could you determine for yourself that they were wrong? If so, then on what basis, and by what authority?
It's an easy question if you understand the idea of the magisterium. It isn't simply a person or group of people, but the teaching authority of the Church and the body of its authoritative teachings. They have already declared these things to be wrong. No contrary teaching would be magisterial.
Suppose they didn't already formally declare them to be wrong - or, they're declaring that while it was wrong before, it is no longer wrong now. What then would your answer be?
Sam? Did a light bulb finally go off?
The answer is that it wouldn't matter. Those doctrines have been settled by the ordinary magisterium, meaning the everyday teaching of the bishops in union with the pope. What was intrinsically wrong before will always be so.
Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the "ordinary magisterium" taught? What is your answer?
It would depend on my understanding of Scripture (which is itself a part of the ordinary magisterium) and the guidance of whatever group of believers I happened to associate myself with.
So you and your fellow believers you associate with are acting as your own magisterium.
Thank you. Bookmark.
If we weren't Catholic, yes, we would be.
You're welcome.
But you are. And your answers were as a Roman Catholic.
Thank you again.
My answers were to your hypothetical, in which I was not.
LOL. Poor try. You were constantly trying to defer to the magisterium, then the "ordinary magisterium", etc.
^^^ Folks, if these guys always have to resort to dishonest argumentation, what does that tell you about their views?
I mean you literally asked me what I would do were I not even aware of the magisterium.
No, I asked you if you could discern for yourself whether the magisterium's declaration was wrong even if you did not know the "ordinary magisterial teaching" on the topic. Stop lying. The forum can see for themselves. You're only digging your hole deeper.
In fact, it doesn't even matter at all whether you are a Catholic or not in this scenario. The question is ultimately asking you if you could personally discern whether murder, rape, and gay marriage were wrong based on Scripture for yourself. Catholic or not. Your answer is your answer whether you are a Catholic or not. It's entirely irrelevant.
How do you know the difference between what you discern for yourself and what you've been taught? I would suggest that you don't.
Why are you running away from the point? You said that I "literally" asked you what you would did if you "were not even aware of the magisterium" which was demonstrably false.
So did you lie, or are you just bad at keeping track of what's being said? Do you at least acknowledge that you are wrong here?
"Suppose you don't even know or are aware of what the 'ordinary magisterium' taught? What is your answer?"
Again, I was responding to the hypothetical above. I don't know what else you're looking for.
So, by presenting the evidence that you were wrong, is this your admission?
20 years on this board and I've never seen Sam admit he was wrong (despite the fact he's wrong the majority of the time). Too arrogant to ever admit he's been bested.
Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Mothra said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Yup, you could be his twin brother, ironically from the opposing side on this issue.
For the record, I am very much flawed and have said so in the past. The people who mock me for such admission are, I submit, equally flawed but completely unwilling to admit so, as their pride will not allow it.
I have also quoted Scripture and tried to gently remind certain malcontents of better options, but again their pride demands they punish anyone who presents an unpleasant truth in their presence.
You appear to be one of the more humble Protestant Christians on this board. Takes courage around here to admit that and for that I commend you.
There are several here that know the ways of the judgement of God and have pronounced said judgement many times. Mothra sent me to hell yet again today.
So, this is what you said to me right before I "pronounced judgment" on you.
"Your post above will likely play before your eyes as you hopefully head to Purgatory and the Catholics will pray for your soul."
I say this with all due respect - you are a really stupid person. I mean, really stupid. Anyone with such an incredible blind spot for their own behavior, while accusing others of doing exactly what they did the post prior, is just a moron.
Take a breath big guy. You prove yet again this is quite literally the most uneducated Protestant Christian board I post on.
Youre spiking a football by quoting me saying youre going to Heaven while also YET AGAIN resorting to junior high name calling
Thank you kind sir for YET AGAIN proving my point. Lmao
My sincere apologies for suggesting youre going to Heaven and that Catholics will pray for you (again, if you didnt know, which we shoukd all assume you dont, means you are NOT in hell). So yeah, the exact opposite of what you did and without calling you a single name too. Raise it up a little or just step aside.
Lmao. Thanks for the full throated chuckle reading this as I head off to pray to God and say a few Hail Marys.
Enjoy Divine Mercy Sunday. Prayers sir. Take a breath or something might pop if you keep getting too emotional
That was quite entertaining . Lmao
You've told me repeatedly for years that I am unsaved, and my only hope is purgatory, and you now allege this is a post in which you said I am going to Heaven?
LOL. As I said, you're an absolute lying moron and full of crap.
Lmao. Going full trump. Woke up just like you retired. This called S Y A with the name calling and emotional meltdown.
Simma down Buttercup. It's going to be ok. You're clearly misinformed but thats been noted for some time in these threads.
Happy Divine Mercy Sunday. Jesus I trust in you!
Time to disengage. You seem Unstable.
All the best and prayers always. Purgatory is your only path to Heaven. And you will be prayed for by Catholics even when in purgatory until purified.
LOL. More projection.
I am curious, why do you believe I am now saved? What makes you think I am going to Heaven, after years of pronouncing otherwise?
Let's see if you can express yourself cogently and unemotionally.
Good luck!
Ive disengaged from the emotional instability. Moving on. Prayers for your journey as always. Too risky engaging with people screaming and name calling at people versus calmly discussing their opinion of their interpretation versus 2,000 years of history.
Translation: I know what I just said is utterly false bull **** so instead of trying to defend my lie, I'll tuck tail and run.
I get it. If I lied with the impunity that you do, I'd probably tuck tail and run as well.
Trying to paper over your epic childish name calling no defense meltdown still i see. Will not engage with loose cannons capable of such.
Just own it big guy. The more wrong you are the more you emote. Same as always.
More obfuscation to distract from the fact what you said was utter bull ****, and you are unable to defend it.
If you get brave enough to explain why you now, suddenly believe I am destined for Heaven instead of Hades, let me know.
Yoooooooo internet keyboard warrior dude. Now that I've permitted a cooling off period I guess Ive mustered up some bravery lol. Why yall always do that silliness and abandon defense of your faith and ideals is eternally entertaining.
1) never suddenly changed anything
2) why are you seeking my opinion or approval of your eternal fate?
3) i would never judge anyone's eternal residence. No clue where you are heading. I hope to see everyone in Heaven some day. It's why I do what I do and pop into this confused den from time to time. That is up to God where you will head based on what you in your soul force Him to do.
You either go to hell, straight to Heaven if sinless or if God has deemed your temporal punishment as penance for your sins, or to Purgatory
4) in fact Ive argued here even someone who commits suicide or Hitler etc could be in Heaven. Fortunately for them as for you, my opinion on that matters not, but even one drop of Christ's blood is enough to save eternally every soul that has lived
Jesus' mercy is infinite as is his justice. We prefer his mercy over his justice
Go with God. Be well. Keep the faith
Shared With extreme bravery…
Btw do you know the differences of Hades, hell, limbo etc? The words in the creed of near 2,000 years and what words chosen and why that we say repeatedly?
Glad to hear I am not condemned to eternal damnation, as you suggested before.
So only people who are "sinless" go to Heaven? That's interesting. What sinless people do you know?
"Straight to Heaven" if sinless. Otherwise Purgatory and then to Heaven
Mary Mother of God
So there is such a thing as a sinless human? Paul and even Christ himself would be very surprised by that. And for those who aren't sinless, they'll go to this made up place called purgatory? A place never mentioned in scripture?
Can you tell me of an example of a sinless human in the Bible, other than Christ that is.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God.
" I guess that was a lie.
Mary Mother of God
To square your belief in this new religion you speak of you'd have to believe things for example like Jesus went to Heaven on Good Friday. Support that claim (without irrational childish name calling and hate
- just defense of your position)
historian said:
Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.
Jesus is God. Mary is Mother of Jesus. Mary is Mother of God. Simple. Otherwise you're left believing and teaching the human nature of Jesus is not God.
Always fascinating what Protestant Christians get hung up and emotional about. Much energy spent there on confusion. I'd recommend let it go and focus elsewhere on their faith and hope for the best. Focus on the common ground.
Youre also thinking on things that were discussed and settled nearly 2000 years ago and you're choosing the losing side.
historian said:
Mary isn't the mother of God, she was the human mother of the human Jesus. But Jesus Christ, "the Word become flesh", was present at the beginning and part of creation (John 1:1-3). God has always existed and thus had no mother. And no, I cannot explain the Trinity. Neither can anyone else. No one can understand God because He is God.
Very true. It really should obvious that God is the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
There is none higher than God.
"Mother of God" implies a blasphemy. Strange how some cannot see that.
Also, poor Joseph. Jesus was (and is) the Son of God, but Joseph was his father figure while Jesus grew up, and the head of household.
All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.
All that praise and attention for Mary, yet her husband Joseph gets shoved into a corner.
Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
You put it there.
No.
Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
You put it there.
No.
Of course you did, you wrote your own post, neh?
You're quoting the wrong person. The post was Freedombear's.Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
You put it there.
No.
Of course you did, you wrote your own post, neh?
Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:Sam Lowry said:Oldbear83 said:
Sam: " Mary Mother of God"
Odd signature you have there ...
Not mine.
You put it there.
No.
Of course you did, you wrote your own post, neh?
You're quoting the wrong person. The post was Freedombear's.
My apologies, you are correct.
You two do use many of the same arguments, but yes this was from Freedombear.
Still an odd way to sign a post.