Oldbear83 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Worship God alone.

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Posting this again, since at least one seems to have missed my thoughts on the topic.

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Maybe you're the one missing something? That your post doesn't answer the question?

Again - clarity and truth.

Oldbear83 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Worship God alone.

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Posting this again, since at least one seems to have missed my thoughts on the topic.

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Nonsensical statement that nonody understands. Hes talking to Muslims? Mormons? Encouraging protesters?

BUDOS made an excellent post, and cited relevant Scripture in support of it.

Why aren't we discussing that Scripture?

Oldbear83 said:

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BUDOS made an excellent post, and cited relevant Scripture in support of it.

Why aren't we discussing that Scripture?

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Why aren't you and Budos answering what any Christian wouldn't ever have a problem answering? It's quite revealing.

There has been some talk about the fruit of being a Christian.

Thing is, good fruit should be of good flavor and fresh.

Sour or bitter fruit has no worth.

Paul had a few things to say about the fruits of Christianity.

Oldbear83 said:

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There has been some talk about the fruit of being a Christian.

Thing is, good fruit should be of good flavor and fresh.

Sour or bitter fruit has no worth.

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Isn't the repeated failure/unwillingness to defend God's honor by recognizing and calling out clear heresy and idolatry, an example of the sour and bitter fruit you speak of?

Let alone not even knowing the gospel?

I mean, come on folks, let's have some awareness of your own selves here.
Clarity and truth, in boldness, are fruits of the Spirit.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Galatians 5:22

" For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,[e] 10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, 12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light."

Colossians 1:9-12

"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere."

James 3:17

Thanks for sharing. This is what I was thinking about, especially the passages in Galatians & Colossians. IIRC, there is something in Romans as well.

historian said:

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Thanks for sharing. This is what I was thinking about, especially the passages in Galatians & Colossians. IIRC, there is something in Romans as well.

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Yes there is. Frankly, Paul makes clear how we are to present the Gospel:

"Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

That is, we serve the Gospel by making it relevant to the people who hear it, and making it appealing.

With patience, not threats.

With visible joy, not anger.

With humility, not the arrogance of thinking we are better than those we hope to persuade.

Oldbear83 said:

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"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law."

Galatians 5:22

" For this reason, since the day we heard about you, we have not stopped praying for you. We continually ask God to fill you with the knowledge of his will through all the wisdom and understanding that the Spirit gives,[e] 10 so that you may live a life worthy of the Lord and please him in every way: bearing fruit in every good work, growing in the knowledge of God, 11 being strengthened with all power according to his glorious might so that you may have great endurance and patience, 12 and giving joyful thanks to the Father, who has qualified you to share in the inheritance of his holy people in the kingdom of light."

Colossians 1:9-12

"But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere."

James 3:17

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Guys.... the fruit of the Spirit is most certainly NOT all this "joy, peace, kindness, being considerate" if you are not saying what is true and without clarity. If you are telling or encouraging false things, especially a wrong gospel, then no matter how kind and loving you think you're being, it isn't from the Spirit, it is from the Devil. Some of the nicest, gentlest, peace-loving and patient people are Mormons, Buddhists, and even Muslims.

Remember, Satan can present himself as an angel of light.

Oldbear83 said:

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historian said:

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Thanks for sharing. This is what I was thinking about, especially the passages in Galatians & Colossians. IIRC, there is something in Romans as well.

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Yes there is. Frankly, Paul makes clear how we are to present the Gospel:

"Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law. To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings."

1 Corinthians 9:19-23

That is, we serve the Gospel by making it relevant to the people who hear it, and making it appealing.

With patience, not threats.

With visible joy, not anger.

With humility, not the arrogance of thinking we are better than those we hope to persuade.

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.... but who is making "threats"? Who is "thinking they are better than those we're hoping to persuade"?

Is LYING and projection about what other people are doing just to save your own face - is that from the Holy Spirit?

Isn't righteous anger from the Holy Spirit if it protects God's honor and shames idolatry and heresy? Isn't cowering from doing so showing that one does NOT have the Holy Spirit?

And shouldn't you know the gospel correctly, which you demonstrated in another thread that you didn't, before you worry about how you present it? Let alone preach down to others about it?

It is fascinating that a general discussion about the Apostle Paul's call to humility, patience, and visible joy felt like a personal attack to you. Oldbear83 didn't name anyone; you inserted yourself into that description.

Scripture warns heavily against the type of arrogance that uses 'righteous anger' as a mask for personal pride and discord. If a reminder to share the Gospel with humility and patience angers you, that is a heart issue between you and Godnot a theological error on our part.
It preferred that this dialogue dialogue here in peace. If you cannot engage without fabrications and hostility, you are welcome to find another thread.

BUDOS said:

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It is fascinating that a general discussion about the Apostle Paul's call to humility, patience, and visible joy felt like a personal attack to you. Oldbear83 didn't name anyone; you inserted yourself into that description.

Scripture warns heavily against the type of arrogance that uses 'righteous anger' as a mask for personal pride and discord. If a reminder to share the Gospel with humility and patience angers you, that is a heart issue between you and Godnot a theological error on our part.
It preferred that this dialogue dialogue here in peace. If you cannot engage without fabrications and hostility, you are welcome to find another thread.

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It's obvious who he's referring to. He's said this many times about me in previous posts. He's employing the same tactic he's always used (which is the SAME tactic you use by the way) which is to attack the personal qualities of a person when he can't argue against the substance. This is literally known by pretty much every regular in this forum. And much like you, he's doing it in an indirect, passive-aggressive way so that he can say, like you're saying now, that he "never said I was talking about you". But let's not be dumb and dishonest here, okay? Or maybe that's what you are?

No one is using "righteous anger as a cover for pride and discord". That's YOUR projection. That's YOUR LIE in a feeble attempt at misdirection away from your glaring failure/inability to call out obvious heresy and idolatry. No one is "angry" at the call to share the gospel with humility and patience. That's YOUR "out" from having to answer the simple question I posed, a question that NO TRUE CHRISTIAN WOULD EVER HAVE A PROBLEM ANSWERING, but since you and OldBear do, then it is revealing that something is VERY, VERY WRONG with you and OldBear. I'm just shining light on it and exposing it, and understandibly, the darkness hates to be exposed by light, and reacts in the exact way you and OldBear are reacting - by avoiding all clarity and truth in order to stay in the dark, and attacking anyone who dares expose it.

No one is believing your charge that I'm making "fabrications" and "engaging in hostility". They are not that dumb, and you are not that smart to be able to gas light them. I simply asked a question, with nothing of the "tone" or "hostility" that you've constantly lied about. And everyone can see that you don't want to answer it, which is quite revealing. The negative energy that you're sending my way, I'm simply returning it back to you. You obviously don't want a "civil discussion".

The bottom line, which you're trying to escape but can't, is that you've been exposed.

BTD,
The irony of you claiming to expose 'darkness' while treating good people with such consistent arrogance and disdain is staggering. You aren't protecting God's honor; you are just a bully hiding behind a Bible, looking down on others from a high horse you built for yourself.

Your posts are a perfect modern execution of Luke 18:9confident in your own righteousness while looking down on everyone else with contempt. Jesus had plenty to say about religious hypocrites who stood around projecting their own holiness while treating others with disdain. You are a textbook modern Pharisee.

It must be exhausting to constantly look down on everyone, convinced you are the only 'true Christian' in the room. Your predictable pattern of demeaning others, rewriting history, and throwing spiritual tantrums when called out has grown incredibly tiresome. Everyone here sees your 'righteous anger' for exactly what it is: a fragile ego that lashes out whenever it is challenged. Frankly, it's just sad.

You aren't fooling anyone, BTD. I am entirely finished indulging your toxic behavior because you have absolutely nothing of value or grace to offer. Go ahead and type out your next angry block of text to save faceI know your ego desperately needs the last wordbut I am done giving your hostility a platform. At least for now. Have the night you deserve."

BUDOS said:

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BTD,
The irony of you claiming to expose 'darkness' while treating good people with such consistent arrogance and disdain is staggering. You aren't protecting God's honor; you are just a bully hiding behind a Bible, looking down on others from a high horse you built for yourself.

Your posts are a perfect modern execution of Luke 18:9confident in your own righteousness while looking down on everyone else with contempt. Jesus had plenty to say about religious hypocrites who stood around projecting their own holiness while treating others with disdain. You are a textbook modern Pharisee.

It must be exhausting to constantly look down on everyone, convinced you are the only 'true Christian' in the room. Your predictable pattern of demeaning others, rewriting history, and throwing spiritual tantrums when called out has grown incredibly tiresome. Everyone here sees your 'righteous anger' for exactly what it is: a fragile ego that lashes out whenever it is challenged. Frankly, it's just sad.

You aren't fooling anyone, BTD. I am entirely finished indulging your toxic behavior because you have absolutely nothing of value or grace to offer. Go ahead and type out your next angry block of text to save faceI know your ego desperately needs the last wordbut I am done giving your hostility a platform. At least for now. Have the night you deserve."

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No one treated anyone with "arrogance" and "disdain". No one is being "confident in their own righteousness". No one is "looking down on everyone". There hasn't been any "toxic" behavior. All with the exception, that it's all been coming FROM YOU in your responses to my simple question. EVERYONE KNOWS this is just a tactic to avoid the issue, which by now, has become glaringly obvious to everyone. You are constantly inserting thoughts and motivations in others' hearts, while I'm judging the content and substance of what you say in this forum, or what you revealingly don't say. People know and can see the difference. Your attempts at misdirection are falling flat.

NO ONE has forgotten that you still aren't answering the question, which NO TRUE CHRISTIAN WOULD EVER HAVE A PROBLEM ANSWERING WITH CLARITY AND TRUTH. Like I said, you've been exposed.

BTD doesn't understand Catholicism, but he is sincerely trying to tell the truth as he sees it. I can't fault him for that.

The reason we know Jesus has no brothers and sisters (from the same Womb) is from his own Words

A Bible thats falling apart is usually owned by someone who isnt.

Fre3dombear said:

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The reason we know Jesus has no brothers and sisters (from the same Womb) is from his own Words

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If you are standing on the verse I think you are, then you are also claiming Jesus said He has no mother.

Sam Lowry said:

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BTD doesn't understand Catholicism

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Everyone can see that I'm literally quoting your church's own popes, Doctors, official prayers, and catechisms.

No one is buying your gas lighting.

And ironically, based on some of your most recent comments, it appears that YOU are the one who doesn't understand, or at least believe in, Roman Catholicism. Which if true, I see as a good thing.

BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BTD doesn't understand Catholicism

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Everyone can see that I'm literally quoting your church's own popes, Doctors, official prayers, and catechisms.

No one is buying your gas lighting.

And ironically, based on some of your most recent comments, it appears that YOU are the one who doesn't understand, or at least believe in, Roman Catholicism. Which if true, I see as a good thing.

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Quoting and understanding aren't the same thing.

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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The reason we know Jesus has no brothers and sisters (from the same Womb) is from his own Words

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If you are standing on the verse I think you are, then you are also claiming Jesus said He has no mother.

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Here are some specific New Testament passages and verses that refer to the brothers and sisters of Jesus which may help contribute to the discussion.
The Gospels: Naming the Siblings and Hometown Reactions
These are some verses where Jesus's specific brothers are named and his sisters are directly mentioned:

• Mark 6:3: "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary and brother of James and Joses and Judas and Simon? And are not his sisters here with us?"
• Matthew 13:5556: "Is not this the carpenter's son? Is not his mother called Mary? And are not his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? And all his sisters, are they not all with us?"

The Gospels: Family Travel and Interactions
There are also some verses which seem to document the family traveling together or attempting to see Jesus during his public ministry:

• John 2:12: "After this he went down to Capernaum, with his mother and his brothers and his disciples, and they stayed there for a few days."
• John 7:35: This passage notes tension within the family: "So his brothers said to him, 'Leave here and go to Judea...' For not even his brothers believed in him."
• Matthew 12:4647 (also in Mark 3:31 and Luke 8:19): "While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him."

Early Church Records & Letters from Paul
Following the crucifixion and resurrection, the text tracks his brothers remaining with the early community of believers:

• Acts 1:14: Gathering just before Pentecost: "All these with one accord were devoting themselves to prayer, together with the women and Mary the mother of Jesus, and his brothers."
• Galatians 1:19: Paul describing his visit to Jerusalem: "But I saw none of the other apostles except James the Lord's brother."
• 1 Corinthians 9:5: Paul defending his rights as an apostle: "Do we not have the right to take along a believing wife, as do the other apostles and the brothers of the Lord and Cephas?"

This is insane.

"It's not gimmicky, it's godly. If you ever go to church and find yourself bored, blame the communicator, the pastor, don't blame God."

Megachurch pastor responds to folks criticizing him for driving a Rolls Royce on stage for a church sermon illustration. pic.twitter.com/mNaxogGG8P

— Protestia (@Protestia) September 30, 2026

Sam Lowry said:

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BusyTarpDuster2017 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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BTD doesn't understand Catholicism

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Everyone can see that I'm literally quoting your church's own popes, Doctors, official prayers, and catechisms.

No one is buying your gas lighting.

And ironically, based on some of your most recent comments, it appears that YOU are the one who doesn't understand, or at least believe in, Roman Catholicism. Which if true, I see as a good thing.

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Quoting and understanding aren't the same thing.

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Everyone's read the quotes. There isn't any special understanding required. People aren't dumb enough to buy your gas lighting.

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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The reason we know Jesus has no brothers and sisters (from the same Womb) is from his own Words

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If you are standing on the verse I think you are, then you are also claiming Jesus said He has no mother.

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Please show your work

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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The reason we know Jesus has no brothers and sisters (from the same Womb) is from his own Words

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If you are standing on the verse I think you are, then you are also claiming Jesus said He has no mother.

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Please show your work

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First you show what you called 'his own Words'. I will then either agree with you, or explain why you are wrong.