D. C. Bear said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

You white guys aren't listening. No one is saying your whiteness gave you a damn thing. It simply means you have white skin and get treated diiferently than those with black skin.
I have blood yesterday and my technician was black. I asked if she experienced racism at her place of work. She said, "Some clients in the waiting room see her and say to the receptionist 'Can I have someone other than the black girl.'"
She was funny, personable, professional and informative. Those waiting room people saw only black skin. White privilege is a thing. It's simply being treated different than black folk for your white skin.

---

Lol. That is exactly what the word privilege means. Getting something.

You even defined the word and yet still claim it doesn't mean that in the phrase white privilege.

---

. What? Your belief that there is no white privileged is a lie.
"A lie cannot live." MLK

---

White privilege is a lie. If it was true you would have provided some evidence by now.

---

What some people call "white privilege" is just ordinary racism.

---

So should we be discussing "black privilege" then?

And what kind of "privilege" would it be that's leading to blacks murdering blacks in Chicago war zones?

Serious questions

Quote:

---

Have you not once in your ******* life asked why blacks commit so many crimes and murders despite being 12% of the population?

I mean good god son, wake up. You are AFRAID to tackle the truth. Scared to death.

The (shadowed in a store or stopped randomly by police) matches the behavior.

FIX THE BEHAVIOR!

Your narrative assumes that white cops are more suspect and likely to be racist...that's asinine and there is no data for it.

---

Committing more crimes might explain why blacks are more likely to be arrested. It doesn't explain why they're more likely to be prosecuted, convicted, imprisoned, etc.

I suppose you have a point? In which case I missed it.
"Get out much."

The basic premise of white privilege is simple. You guys were born with white skin.
What's so hard to accept?

Florda_mike said:

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D. C. Bear said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Waco1947 said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

You white guys aren't listening. No one is saying your whiteness gave you a damn thing. It simply means you have white skin and get treated diiferently than those with black skin.
I have blood yesterday and my technician was black. I asked if she experienced racism at her place of work. She said, "Some clients in the waiting room see her and say to the receptionist 'Can I have someone other than the black girl.'"
She was funny, personable, professional and informative. Those waiting room people saw only black skin. White privilege is a thing. It's simply being treated different than black folk for your white skin.

---

Lol. That is exactly what the word privilege means. Getting something.

You even defined the word and yet still claim it doesn't mean that in the phrase white privilege.

---

. What? Your belief that there is no white privileged is a lie.
"A lie cannot live." MLK

---

White privilege is a lie. If it was true you would have provided some evidence by now.

---

What some people call "white privilege" is just ordinary racism.

---

So should we be discussing "black privilege" then?

And what kind of "privilege" would it be that's leading to blacks murdering blacks in Chicago war zones?

Serious questions

---

Is that supposed to have meaning?

Waco1947 said:

---

The basic premise of white privilege is simple. You guys were born with white skin.
What's so hard to accept?

---

It goes against the definition of the word privilege.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Quote:

---

Have you not once in your ******* life asked why blacks commit so many crimes and murders despite being 12% of the population?

I mean good god son, wake up. You are AFRAID to tackle the truth. Scared to death.

The (shadowed in a store or stopped randomly by police) matches the behavior.

FIX THE BEHAVIOR!

Your narrative assumes that white cops are more suspect and likely to be racist...that's asinine and there is no data for it.

---

Committing more crimes might explain why blacks are more likely to be arrested. It doesn't explain why they're more likely to be prosecuted, convicted, imprisoned, etc.

---

Yes it does. Recidivism.

what he means is that black people are just lazy and shiftless and therefore more prone to criminal behavior.....


they are just Natural Born Criminals....


Golem's white supremacist view of the world

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

---

self fulfilling prophecy....

white society expects more crime from minorities so they look for it there at a higher rate, so they find it at a higher rate

JusHappy2BeHere said:

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what he means is that black people are just lazy and shiftless and therefore more prone to criminal behavior.....


they are just Natural Born Criminals....


Golem's white supremacist view of the world

---

LOL!!!! You're an idiot.

You are good at making shlt up though.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

---

Yes, Recidivism explains different outcomes. See the three strikes rule as an example.

JusHappy2BeHere said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

---

self fulfilling prophecy....

white society expects more crime from minorities so they look for it there at a higher rate, so they find it at a higher rate

---

For victimless crimes, yes. Doesn't work that way with violent and property crimes.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

---

No more prone to recidivism because of profiling.

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The basic premise of white privilege is simple. You guys were born with white skin.
What's so hard to accept?

---

It goes against the definition of the word privilege.

---

Ahhh No. the privilege is white skin which is an advantage in our culture.

Please promise me White Guys that you would try to understand racism from a black point of view. Tell me about your homework.
Tommy, let me repeat. Have done your homework?
first and foremost talk to actual blacks and read black authors and treat blacks with respect and actually listen to their concerns.
And this may sound silly but watch
1) The Butler
2) Selma
3) 12 Years a Slave
4) Django
5) Hidden Figures
6) Amistead
7) Black Panther (Yep)
volunteer Habitat for Humanity with and for black families
Read Te'Nehisis Coates "First White President" Essay The Atlantic
After your homework maybe you'll get WP.

Waco1947 said:

---

Please promise me White Guys that you would try to understand racism from a black point of view. Tell me about your homework.
Tommy, let me repeat. Have done your homework?
first and foremost talk to actual blacks and read black authors and treat blacks with respect and actually listen to their concerns.
And this may sound silly but watch
1) The Butler
2) Selma
3) 12 Years a Slave
4) Django
5) Hidden Figures
6) Amistead
7) Black Panther (Yep)
volunteer Habitat for Humanity with and for black families
Read Te'Nehisis Coates "First White President" Essay The Atlantic
After your homework maybe you'll get WP.

---

Are you black?

Simple yes or no?

Waco1947 said:

---

After your homework maybe you'll get WP.

---

I want me some White Privilege but I don't like homework. Isn't there some place I can sign up and it is simply handed to me?

What does it matter FM ?

The poor old fella claims to be a 'minister' yet feverishly supports abortion , possesses insight into which parts of Scripture are 'correct' and insists everyone associated with Anglo culture is inherently racist.

Just smile at this yoyo's ramblings while thanking God you don't have to share his bed bugs.

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Statistically they are more prone to serious criminal behavior. But recidivism doesn't explain different outcomes with the same behavior and history.

Here we see that denialism is prevalent on both sides of the issue.

---

No more prone to recidivism because of profiling.

---

Blacks commit homicide at a rate 7 to 8 times higher than whites. That is a fact that can't be explained by profiling.

Waco1947 said:

---

cowboycwr said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

The basic premise of white privilege is simple. You guys were born with white skin.
What's so hard to accept?

---

It goes against the definition of the word privilege.

---

Ahhh No. the privilege is white skin which is an advantage in our culture.

---

How? Please provide specific examples and facts. Not the walking around thing you claim but actual advantages.

Like how a poor white person on welfare is "privileged."

Waco1947 said:

---

Please promise me White Guys that you would try to understand racism from a black point of view. Tell me about your homework.
Tommy, let me repeat. Have done your homework?
first and foremost talk to actual blacks and read black authors and treat blacks with respect and actually listen to their concerns.
And this may sound silly but watch
1) The Butler
2) Selma
3) 12 Years a Slave
4) Django
5) Hidden Figures
6) Amistead
7) Black Panther (Yep)
volunteer Habitat for Humanity with and for black families
Read Te'Nehisis Coates "First White President" Essay The Atlantic
After your homework maybe you'll get WP.

---

1) Historical fiction- not the way the world is anymore
2) Historical- not the way the world is
3) even older historical movie
4) fiction- not a single shred of truth in the movie
5) historical- not the way the world is
6) oldest historical event on the list
7) complete fiction with made up countries where political points are thrown in to fire up the liberals into watching the movie.


So yeah none of that explains what white privilege is, how it exists today in 2018, or how a white person on welfare is privileged.

Did some quick catch-up on this thread this morning, and I think many people (on both sides of this argument) have obfuscated the point.

I think before throwing around the "advantages" of white privilege or what "white privilege" means in the 21st Century, it's important that everyone gets on the same page as to whether it exists or not. If we cannot agree on it's existence, then we can never hope to agree on how to respond to it.

My question for the white people on this board (of which I am one), is, have you ever been in a room where you were the only white person, or one of the few white people? A situation where you were clearly the minority in the room. Maybe this was on a mission trip, or at a sporting event, or in a part of town you don't usually frequent. In that moment of being the minority, did you notice? I'm sure you did.

Now, consider the last time you were the majority in a space, where nearly all of the people around you were the same color as you. Did you notice that fact then? I'm sure you didn't explicitly consider your majority position last time you went to church, or the grocery store, or the park with your kids. It didn't cross your mind that everyone around you looked like you.

Now, consider the life of an African American, or a Hispanic American, etc. That flicker of acknowledgment that you felt when you were the minority in the room is something they consider and feel every single day. Not just in isolated situations, but as their constant reality. There is a consistent acknowledgment (or maybe even discomfort) there that we white people, as the majority in the country we live in, are never forced to grapple with in more than the most isolated and brief of situations.

If we can acknowledge that this phenomenon exists, then we really have no choice but to acknowledge that we, as the majority in the United States, experience a certain privilege that goes along with that. Now, what that means or doesn't mean in regards to policy, employment, police activity, etc. can be a different discussion.

Maybe painting it in that light, rather than being accusatory towards each other, can help bring the conversation together in agreement. I'm not saying that all white people have it easy, or that all non-white people have it difficult, but I think it's impossible to deny that privilege, at least in some form, exists.

stargell_bello said:

---

Did some quick catch-up on this thread this morning, and I think many people (on both sides of this argument) have obfuscated the point.

I think before throwing around the "advantages" of white privilege or what "white privilege" means in the 21st Century, it's important that everyone gets on the same page as to whether it exists or not. If we cannot agree on it's existence, then we can never hope to agree on how to respond to it.

My question for the white people on this board (of which I am one), is, have you ever been in a room where you were the only white person, or one of the few white people? A situation where you were clearly the minority in the room. Maybe this was on a mission trip, or at a sporting event, or in a part of town you don't usually frequent. In that moment of being the minority, did you notice? I'm sure you did.

Now, consider the last time you were the majority in a space, where nearly all of the people around you were the same color as you. Did you notice that fact then? I'm sure you didn't explicitly consider your majority position last time you went to church, or the grocery store, or the park with your kids. It didn't cross your mind that everyone around you looked like you.

Now, consider the life of an African American, or a Hispanic American, etc. That flicker of acknowledgment that you felt when you were the minority in the room is something they consider and feel every single day. Not just in isolated situations, but as their constant reality. There is a consistent acknowledgment (or maybe even discomfort) there that we white people, as the majority in the country we live in, are never forced to grapple with in more than the most isolated and brief of situations.

If we can acknowledge that this phenomenon exists, then we really have no choice but to acknowledge that we, as the majority in the United States, experience a certain privilege that goes along with that. Now, what that means or doesn't mean in regards to policy, employment, police activity, etc. can be a different discussion.

Maybe painting it in that light, rather than being accusatory towards each other, can help bring the conversation together in agreement. I'm not saying that all white people have it easy, or that all non-white people have it difficult, but I think it's impossible to deny that privilege, at least in some form, exists.

---

Your assumption is that because whites are the majority that non whites must feel some kind of negativity or pain because there isn't enough people that have dark skin around them.

For this to be true, you would have to believe that races are inherently different from one another and behavior is akin to DNA.

I call that racism.

This argument boils down to two things:

MLK Jr and civil rights view of race vs. Postmodernist view of race.

One tries to judge the individual, the other judges the group.

Postmodernists create racism. Race culture is real, but we should strive to judge people by their character and not their skin color.

stargell_bello said:

---

Did some quick catch-up on this thread this morning, and I think many people (on both sides of this argument) have obfuscated the point.

I think before throwing around the "advantages" of white privilege or what "white privilege" means in the 21st Century, it's important that everyone talks about beto .

---

Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

stargell_bello said:

---

Did some quick catch-up on this thread this morning, and I think many people (on both sides of this argument) have obfuscated the point.

I think before throwing around the "advantages" of white privilege or what "white privilege" means in the 21st Century, it's important that everyone gets on the same page as to whether it exists or not. If we cannot agree on it's existence, then we can never hope to agree on how to respond to it.

My question for the white people on this board (of which I am one), is, have you ever been in a room where you were the only white person, or one of the few white people? A situation where you were clearly the minority in the room. Maybe this was on a mission trip, or at a sporting event, or in a part of town you don't usually frequent. In that moment of being the minority, did you notice? I'm sure you did.

Now, consider the last time you were the majority in a space, where nearly all of the people around you were the same color as you. Did you notice that fact then? I'm sure you didn't explicitly consider your majority position last time you went to church, or the grocery store, or the park with your kids. It didn't cross your mind that everyone around you looked like you.

Now, consider the life of an African American, or a Hispanic American, etc. That flicker of acknowledgment that you felt when you were the minority in the room is something they consider and feel every single day. Not just in isolated situations, but as their constant reality. There is a consistent acknowledgment (or maybe even discomfort) there that we white people, as the majority in the country we live in, are never forced to grapple with in more than the most isolated and brief of situations.

If we can acknowledge that this phenomenon exists, then we really have no choice but to acknowledge that we, as the majority in the United States, experience a certain privilege that goes along with that. Now, what that means or doesn't mean in regards to policy, employment, police activity, etc. can be a different discussion.

Maybe painting it in that light, rather than being accusatory towards each other, can help bring the conversation together in agreement. I'm not saying that all white people have it easy, or that all non-white people have it difficult, but I think it's impossible to deny that privilege, at least in some form, exists.

---

Wow.

that is a lot of words to say nothing.

So white privilege is now being the only white person in a crowd and noticing it?

Today at work I have already been in 2 different meetings where I was a minority. I didn't feel uncomfortable, scared, alone, etc. I felt AT WORK. With coworkers and other people in a meeting.

Race had no impact on any part of the meeting.

So like I said your post was a bunch of words that got no where and showed nothing.

stargell_bello said:

---

Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

---

Oh look another long winded post that in the end is trash.

I will ask the same question I asked at the beginning of the thread and no one has been able to answer.

Where is the privilege for a white person on welfare?

And please try to respond with evidence- not some sermon given by a pastor that says nothing and is just full of opinion.

And limit your post to like 50 words or less since it is clear after 10 words of your post that it is full of crap.

stargell_bello said:

---

Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

---

Privilege = You or your ancestors did not earn the rights you have today.
You're applying this to an entire race of people.

The idea that you can target an entire ethnic group with a "crime" for existing is absolutely abhorrent.

Pushing the term white privilege makes non whites believe that ALL whites are getting a one up in life:
The movement beyond that is to punish, demonize and make life harder for whites: that's how this ends.

It may not be how you want it to end...but it's what human nature leads to.

and history proves it. Soviet communists who exercised this EXACT line of thinking towards Kulaks (farmers). These collectivists (same types that push white privilege) killed, raped and robbed all the Kulaks because they insisted that because they showed signs of wealth that they were criminals and robbers.

Same thing is happening in Africa today because a group perceived another group as beneficiaries of privilege.

You can say it's about being aware all you want...but demonizing whites is the reality of what is going to happen by pushing this.

Collectively held guilt at the level of the individual is dangerous: if you're looking to stir up trouble in, then keep pushing white privilege.

Eventually you as a white person will be looked down upon.
"you have no say in this conversation because you're white and can't possibly understand"
"you have a nice house only because you're white and not because you worked hard"
"Your existence is making me uncomfortable, can you please leave the room".

You want this?

cowboycwr said:

---

stargell_bello said:

---

Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

---

Oh look another long winded post that in the end is trash.

I will ask the same question I asked at the beginning of the thread and no one has been able to answer.

Where is the privilege for a white person on welfare?

And please try to respond with evidence- not some sermon given by a pastor that says nothing and is just full of opinion.

And limit your post to like 50 words or less since it is clear after 10 words of your post that it is full of crap.

---

It is clear from your previous posts on this thread and others like it that your mind is and has been very much made up. You were not who my posts on this thread were at any point directed towards. I think it's possible to have civil discourse on this topic without dissolving into name-calling and gaslighting, but alas.

Thanks. Now I know Matt Chandler is a lying piece of dog s#|t and The Village 'church' is just a collection of other pieces of dog $#|t who are into virtue signaling to their leftist pals.

And 'gaslighting' is just the most recent inane leftist accusation when they can't handle facts. You are likely either jinx or cinque.

cowboycwr said:

---

stargell_bello said:

---

Did some quick catch-up on this thread this morning, and I think many people (on both sides of this argument) have obfuscated the point.

I think before throwing around the "advantages" of white privilege or what "white privilege" means in the 21st Century, it's important that everyone gets on the same page as to whether it exists or not. If we cannot agree on it's existence, then we can never hope to agree on how to respond to it.

My question for the white people on this board (of which I am one), is, have you ever been in a room where you were the only white person, or one of the few white people? A situation where you were clearly the minority in the room. Maybe this was on a mission trip, or at a sporting event, or in a part of town you don't usually frequent. In that moment of being the minority, did you notice? I'm sure you did.

Now, consider the last time you were the majority in a space, where nearly all of the people around you were the same color as you. Did you notice that fact then? I'm sure you didn't explicitly consider your majority position last time you went to church, or the grocery store, or the park with your kids. It didn't cross your mind that everyone around you looked like you.

Now, consider the life of an African American, or a Hispanic American, etc. That flicker of acknowledgment that you felt when you were the minority in the room is something they consider and feel every single day. Not just in isolated situations, but as their constant reality. There is a consistent acknowledgment (or maybe even discomfort) there that we white people, as the majority in the country we live in, are never forced to grapple with in more than the most isolated and brief of situations.

If we can acknowledge that this phenomenon exists, then we really have no choice but to acknowledge that we, as the majority in the United States, experience a certain privilege that goes along with that. Now, what that means or doesn't mean in regards to policy, employment, police activity, etc. can be a different discussion.

Maybe painting it in that light, rather than being accusatory towards each other, can help bring the conversation together in agreement. I'm not saying that all white people have it easy, or that all non-white people have it difficult, but I think it's impossible to deny that privilege, at least in some form, exists.

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Wow.

that is a lot of words to say nothing.

So white privilege is now being the only white person in a crowd and noticing it?

Today at work I have already been in 2 different meetings where I was a minority. I didn't feel uncomfortable, scared, alone, etc. I felt AT WORK. With coworkers and other people in a meeting.

Race had no impact on any part of the meeting.

So like I said your post was a bunch of words that got no where and showed nothing.

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Just like hope and change. Some saps will fall for anything.

Doc Holliday said:

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stargell_bello said:

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Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

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Privilege = You or your ancestors did not earn the rights you have today.
You're applying this to an entire race of people.

The idea that you can target an entire ethnic group with a "crime" for existing is absolutely abhorrent.

Pushing the term white privilege makes non whites believe that ALL whites are getting a one up in life:
The movement beyond that is to punish, demonize and make life harder for whites: that's how this ends.

It may not be how you want it to end...but it's what human nature leads to.

and history proves it. Soviet communists who exercised this EXACT line of thinking towards Kulaks (farmers). These collectivists (same types that push white privilege) killed, raped and robbed all the Kulaks because they insisted that because they showed signs of wealth that they were criminals and robbers.

You can say it's about being aware all you want...but demonizing whites is the reality of what is going to happen by pushing this.

Collectively held guilt at the level of the individual is dangerous: if you're looking to stir up trouble in, then keep pushing white privilege.

Eventually you as a white person will be looked down upon.
"you have no say in this conversation because you're white and can't possibly understand"
"you have a nice house only because you're white and not because you worked hard"
"Your existence is making me uncomfortable, can you please leave the room".

You want this?

---

Whew, a lot of mischaracterization in this post. I count 3, maybe 4 straw men. I expected a bit more banter before being accused of being a Communist

stargell_bello said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

stargell_bello said:

---

Okay I'll bite.

If you disagree with me, maybe this quote from a sermon that Matt Chandler (Pastor of The Village Church) gave after the events in Ferguson can explain my point better than I. I think this quote rebuts your first argument well.

"The challenge with white privilege is that most white people cannot see it. We assume that the experiences and opportunities afforded to us are the same afforded to others. Sadly, this simply isn't true. Privileged people can fall into the trap of universalizing experiences and laying them across other people's experiences as an interpretive lens What is so deceptive about white privilege is that it is different from blatant racism or bias. A privileged person's heart may be free from racist thoughts or biased attitudes, but may still fail to see how the very privilege afforded to him or her shapes how he or she interprets and understands the situations and circumstances of people without privilege."

Pretty interesting. Claiming white privilege exists doesn't mean I'm racist. It doesn't mean you're racist. It simply means that just because we have never been affected by something, doesn't mean that everyone else has been unaffected in the exact same way. It's acknowledging that others might experience something that we have a bit of a blind spot to.

I don't think your claim that the racism of today is a direct result of postmodernity holds water. That is an argument that I have seen Glenn Beck (among others) make but I simply don't think that's a fair charge. Race in America has a very specific history, and to blame any type of strife we find today on a post-WW2 ideological movement seems flippant. I'm certain that we can agree that over the course of history, and certainly over the past 500 years or so of "modernity", of which post-modernity is a direct response to, MLK and the Civil Rights movement occurred very very recently, so to assume that the problems that may have existed before the Civil Rights movement and certainly existed for the majority of the European experience in North America only exist now because of a relatively recent movement seems to be discounting the context of a greater issue.

I make this argument as a political conservative, as a comfortable American with white skin, not because of any political or racial affiliation, but simply because I think that the heart of Jesus was for the "other", on earth he considered the plight of the other first and foremost, and so in our pursuit of Christ-likeness it is in our best interest to do so as well.

---

Privilege = You or your ancestors did not earn the rights you have today.
You're applying this to an entire race of people.

The idea that you can target an entire ethnic group with a "crime" for existing is absolutely abhorrent.

Pushing the term white privilege makes non whites believe that ALL whites are getting a one up in life:
The movement beyond that is to punish, demonize and make life harder for whites: that's how this ends.

It may not be how you want it to end...but it's what human nature leads to.

and history proves it. Soviet communists who exercised this EXACT line of thinking towards Kulaks (farmers). These collectivists (same types that push white privilege) killed, raped and robbed all the Kulaks because they insisted that because they showed signs of wealth that they were criminals and robbers.

You can say it's about being aware all you want...but demonizing whites is the reality of what is going to happen by pushing this.

Collectively held guilt at the level of the individual is dangerous: if you're looking to stir up trouble in, then keep pushing white privilege.

Eventually you as a white person will be looked down upon.
"you have no say in this conversation because you're white and can't possibly understand"
"you have a nice house only because you're white and not because you worked hard"
"Your existence is making me uncomfortable, can you please leave the room".

You want this?

---

Whew, a lot of mischaracterization in this post. I count 3, maybe 4 straw men. I expected a bit more banter before being accused of being a Communist

---

I did not accuse you of being a communist.

What I am telling you is that pushing white privilege and expecting it to create peace or improve society is delusional. It will have the opposite effect that you intend.

Just look at what is happening in Africa today because a group perceived another group as beneficiaries of privilege.

I think comparing Soviet Russia or unrest in Africa to the simple idea that being a member of a majority can afford us certain comforts that those in the minority do not share is a false analogy.