Texas Independence Referendum Act filed in Texas House

44,625 Views | 574 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by TexasScientist
Oldbear83
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quash said:

Rawhide said:

Texas doesn't need to secede. Eventually, it would just in end up in the same exact spot we are now.

The United States just needs....

1) To kick out California and New York. Go ahead and throw in Oregon too.

or

2) Term limits for ALL politicians every where all the time. Same goes for the bureaucrats that have sucked the life out of this country by being there 40 years... term limits for all appointees.

Problem solved. Either way.
Once you go full authoritarian all kinds of solutions are on the table.

Never go full authoritarian.
RDJ's version was much funnier.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

The one thing in common between the riots by the Left and the Jan 6 incident, is that Trump was not at fault for any of them.


Dish up some more alternate reality for yourself. Trump called them to DC for the 6th, told them it would be wild, pumped them up in his speech, after Jr., Giuliani et al warmed them up, then sent them on their way telling them he would be there with them. If Trump hadn't have called them to DC it would not have happened.
Texasjeremy
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https://tnm.me/news/tnm-news/recap-of-washington-expose-interview-with-daniel-miller/

In a recent interview with Brad Wilson, Larry Ward and Carter Clews from the Washington Expos, Daniel Miller, President of the Texas Nationalist Movement discussed the growing support for TEXIT a grassroots movement sweeping across the state seeking a vote on Texas independence.

The Texas Nationalist Movement started in 2005 with the purpose of securing the political, cultural, and economic independence of Texas. Mr. Miller describes the goal of the movement as "BREXIT with less Tea". The host of Washington Expos labeled Texas "as the last, best hope for those of us who believe in personal freedom."

Political support within the Texas legislature is growing. Texans are pressuring their legislators to take a stand on the issue, and in the last few weeks, more politicians have come out in support of HB 1359. This bill otherwise known as the Texas Independence Referendum Act proposes a referendum to Texas voters on the question of whether or not the state should leave the Union and become its own independent republic.

Over the years, Texas politicians have paid lip service to the idea when it served their purposes. Current Texas Governor Greg Abbott hinted at lukewarm support on the campaign trail but once in office he backed away from the issue. As attorney general, Abbott had the opportunity to move forward with the proposal but decided against it for fear of how it would affect his chances in his impending run for governor.

Many in Washington have directed vehement insults at those in support of TEXIT, labeling them as traitors and cowards, but this only highlights their lack of understanding of the US Constitution. There are many powers held specifically by the federal government (such as coining money and going to war), and many things that states are prohibited from doing leaving [the union] is not on that list," says Mr. Miller. All states in the union have the right to leave, not just Texas. But for Texas, the goal is just a bit easier.

Mr. Miller points out specific wording in the Texas Constitution that validates the movement. "According to the Texas Constitution, Article 1: Section 1, Texas is a free and independent state and the perpetuity of the Union depends upon the preservation of the right of local self-government, unimpaired to all the States. In Article 1: Section 2, it states, "all political power is inherent in the people and they have at all times the inalienable right to alter, reform or abolish their government in such a manner as they may think expedient." This wording of the document gives the citizens of Texas the power to change their government and political relationships as they see fit. "We don't have to ask permission."

When asked by the host, "Some people want to know why do you hate the United States?", Daniel Miller responded by pointing out that Texans who support secession do not hate the United States. The country was founded on principles of a constitutional republic, liberty, and God given inalienable rights. Who hates that? What we're not okay with is the abomination of a federal government that is no longer representative of the principles this country was founded on. It keeps Texans underneath 180,000 pages of federal laws, rules and regulations administered by two and a half million unelected bureaucrats that essentially force us to overpay anywhere from $103 to $160 billion annually into the federal system.

Another question posed by the host was "How do you see this unfolding? What do you think the federal government's gonna do if the people of Texas really do voteto once again become a separate independent nation?" The fear seems to be that there will be a new "civil war" to prevent Texas from leaving the union. Mr. Miller points out that at the end of World War II, there were 51 recognized nations in the world, and at present there are 192. Most of these new countries formed peacefully, and there is no reason to expect that a peaceful dissolution of the current relationship between Texas and the United States will be any different.

Regardless of what the response of the federal government will be, this is something Texas needs to do. We want to do this in a peaceful political process like the Scottish 2014 and BREXIT a few years later. "In accordance with our Constitution, let the people of Texas go to the polls and (after a free, fair, and full debate) vote on whether or not we should reassert our status as an independent nation."

If the federal government retaliates after a fair vote by the people of Texas, what does that say about the relationship between Texas and the United States? "You have to ask yourself, what are they retaliating against? Is that the kind of political union that we want to live in? One where we have to live in fear of a violent reprisal because we voted incorrectly? If that's the case, they've made the TEXIT case for us. We definitely can't stay."
Oldbear83
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You're bitter, delusional and wrong.


That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
quash
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Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



He's factual, factual, and factual.

Love those special people.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
LIB,MR BEARS
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quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



He's factual, factual, and factual.

Love those special people.
a perfect example of why there are so few white rape artist.

Substantial
Natural
Contractual
Satchel
Oldbear83
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quash said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



He's factual, factual, and factual.

Love those special people.
I see you live in his demented world.

God help you.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Oldbear83
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TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
TexasScientist
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Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Oldbear83
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TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Repeating a false assertion does not improve its veracity.

But we are diverging from the topic.


One thing I wonder about, is what those crime cartels would do if Texas became an independent state.

I think the Republic of Texas would be far less intimidating to a cartel than the United States Marine Corps. Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
whiterock
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Booray said:

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.


And then there's the preponderance of people in favor of having a vote on secession as nothing more than a way to scream Foxtrot Uniform to the cultural revolution coastal elites are so preoccupied with.

This is a pretty simple dynamic at play and you're working way too hard to ignore it.
Thee University
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Oldbear83 said:


I think the Republic of Texas would be far less intimidating to a cartel than the United States Marine Corps. Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Properly motivating some of the good ole boys who dot the landscape of Texas and then organizing our natural born killers we have in state the cartel would be far more worried about these home grown mercenaries.

The Marine Corp has to "play by the rules".
"So often times it happens that we live our lives in chains And we never even know we have the key"
quash
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Oldbear83 said:



I think the Republic of Texas would be far less intimidating to a cartel than the United States Marine Corps. Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
I think a Republic of Texas would preserve or expand gun rights and the rule of law. And allow private sales of cannabis. That is enough to prevent Mexican cartels from taking over anything larger than a van.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Booray
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whiterock said:

Booray said:

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.


And then there's the preponderance of people in favor of having a vote on secession as nothing more than a way to scream Foxtrot Uniform to the cultural revolution coastal elites are so preoccupied with.

This is a pretty simple dynamic at play and you're working way too hard to ignore it.


I'm not ignoring it. It is exactly what I am referring to when I say this is a colossal waste of time.
Oldbear83
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Thee University said:

Oldbear83 said:


I think the Republic of Texas would be far less intimidating to a cartel than the United States Marine Corps. Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Properly motivating some of the good ole boys who dot the landscape of Texas and then organizing our natural born killers we have in state the cartel would be far more worried about these home grown mercenaries.

The Marine Corp has to "play by the rules".
Depends on the Marine
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
whiterock
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Booray said:

whiterock said:

Booray said:

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.


And then there's the preponderance of people in favor of having a vote on secession as nothing more than a way to scream Foxtrot Uniform to the cultural revolution coastal elites are so preoccupied with.

This is a pretty simple dynamic at play and you're working way too hard to ignore it.


I'm not ignoring it. It is exactly what I am referring to when I say this is a colossal waste of time.
Sense when did political expression of nonsense, a First Amendment right, become a waste of time?

More to the point, progressives can blather one meaningless virtue posture after another, but others can't?

You don't strike me as a devotee of Marcuse, so why the repressive tolerance approach to the secession bill?
Booray
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whiterock said:

Booray said:

whiterock said:

Booray said:

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.


And then there's the preponderance of people in favor of having a vote on secession as nothing more than a way to scream Foxtrot Uniform to the cultural revolution coastal elites are so preoccupied with.

This is a pretty simple dynamic at play and you're working way too hard to ignore it.


I'm not ignoring it. It is exactly what I am referring to when I say this is a colossal waste of time.
Sense when did political expression of nonsense, a First Amendment right, become a waste of time?

More to the point, progressives can blather one meaningless virtue posture after another, but others can't?

You don't strike me as a devotee of Marcuse, so why the repressive tolerance approach to the secession bill?
The First Amendment has zero to do with my stance; obviously the bill's authors and supporters have the right to talk about it all day long. That their speech is a protected right does not make that speech any less stupid.

My position was perfectly captured by Whiterock when he indicated that the whole movement was just another way for the populists to yell FU at the elites. We don't need people yelling FU at each other. If it was just people sporting silly bumper stickers in a time of relative calm, no big deal. But its not.

Given the events of January 6 where a mob got out of hand after being encouraged by elected officials, I would think that elected officials should cool their rhetoric. Instead, the morons behind this movement are creating expectations that will never be realized, all in service of the grievances of a group who live more prosperous and free lives than any significant population in the history of mankind. No good comes of that.

There are plenty of things the far left does that irritate me. As of yet, however, I have not seen a legislative effort to dismember the country. When that happens, I will vocally opposed it, I promise.

RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
quash
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
Whoop......there he is!!!! Defender of all things Progressive and Democrat. Very predictable.

Proof is actually hard to come by at this point. The Feds have instituted a gag order and are not allowing the press access to any of the facilities. And for some reason, this is perfectly fine by Mr. Libertarian.

What scares me right now is our Border Patrol is completely overwhelmed and can do nothing at this point to stem the flow of illegals. Your President has no interest in stopping it. Covid be damned!
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
quash
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
Whoop......there he is!!!! Defender of all things Progressive and Democrat. Very predictable.

Proof is actually hard to come by at this point. The Feds have instituted a gag order and are not allowing the press access to any of the facilities. And for some reason, this is perfectly fine by Mr. Libertarian.

What scares me right now is our Border Patrol is completely overwhelmed and can do nothing at this point to stem the flow of illegals. Your President has no interest in stopping it. Covid be damned!
Not defending anything, just asking what has you cowering this week.

And I have already criticized Biden for his tightening of information flows, which is both poor policy and ultimately counterproductive. You know, like other libertarians have pointed out.

Biden is your president, too, same as the border patrol. Or did you retire to another country?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
Whoop......there he is!!!! Defender of all things Progressive and Democrat. Very predictable.

Proof is actually hard to come by at this point. The Feds have instituted a gag order and are not allowing the press access to any of the facilities. And for some reason, this is perfectly fine by Mr. Libertarian.

What scares me right now is our Border Patrol is completely overwhelmed and can do nothing at this point to stem the flow of illegals. Your President has no interest in stopping it. Covid be damned!
Not defending anything, just asking what has you cowering this week.

And I have already criticized Biden for his tightening of information flows, which is both poor policy and ultimately counterproductive. You know, like other libertarians have pointed out.

Biden is your president, too, same as the border patrol. Or did you retire to another country?
Living the dream in Geronimo, Texas. Life is good. Just gonna be more expensive and a little more painful these next four years for everyone. I have come to grips with the fact that half the country wants the government to take care of them and provide for them. Things have changed. Pride and personal responsibility are in the past. It is what it is. We adjust and move on.

Biden is an empty vessel and President in name only. Am pulling for him but it looks like the train has already fallen off of the tracks.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
quash
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
Whoop......there he is!!!! Defender of all things Progressive and Democrat. Very predictable.

Proof is actually hard to come by at this point. The Feds have instituted a gag order and are not allowing the press access to any of the facilities. And for some reason, this is perfectly fine by Mr. Libertarian.

What scares me right now is our Border Patrol is completely overwhelmed and can do nothing at this point to stem the flow of illegals. Your President has no interest in stopping it. Covid be damned!
Not defending anything, just asking what has you cowering this week.

And I have already criticized Biden for his tightening of information flows, which is both poor policy and ultimately counterproductive. You know, like other libertarians have pointed out.

Biden is your president, too, same as the border patrol. Or did you retire to another country?
Living the dream in Geronimo, Texas. Life is good. Just gonna be more expensive and a little more painful these next four years for everyone. I have come to grips with the fact that half the country wants the government to take care of them and provide for them. Things have changed. Pride and personal responsibility are in the past. It is what it is. We adjust and move on.

Biden is an empty vessel and President in name only. Am pulling for him but it looks like the train has already fallen off of the tracks.
I think the patriots in Sequin will protect your southern flank, you can sleep well.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

quash said:

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

TexasScientist said:

Oldbear83 said:

You're bitter, delusional and wrong.



No, just objective about the truth.
Not true at all.

You are, despite the username, subjective and emotional whenever discussing politics.
No, just objective about the truth.
Groups which can and have taken over parts of Mexico would likely make a move on, say, the Rio Grande valley.
Hate to break it to you, my friend, but this is already happening as we speak. The Administration won't even acknowledge there is a crisis at our southern border. Looks like stopping it will fall solely on the shoulders of Greg Abbott because the Feds are doing nothing.
Any proof that the caged kids that have "taken over" the RGV are part of the drug cartels? What, exactly, is scaring you this time?
Whoop......there he is!!!! Defender of all things Progressive and Democrat. Very predictable.

Proof is actually hard to come by at this point. The Feds have instituted a gag order and are not allowing the press access to any of the facilities. And for some reason, this is perfectly fine by Mr. Libertarian.

What scares me right now is our Border Patrol is completely overwhelmed and can do nothing at this point to stem the flow of illegals. Your President has no interest in stopping it. Covid be damned!
Not defending anything, just asking what has you cowering this week.

And I have already criticized Biden for his tightening of information flows, which is both poor policy and ultimately counterproductive. You know, like other libertarians have pointed out.

Biden is your president, too, same as the border patrol. Or did you retire to another country?
Living the dream in Geronimo, Texas. Life is good. Just gonna be more expensive and a little more painful these next four years for everyone. I have come to grips with the fact that half the country wants the government to take care of them and provide for them. Things have changed. Pride and personal responsibility are in the past. It is what it is. We adjust and move on.

Biden is an empty vessel and President in name only. Am pulling for him but it looks like the train has already fallen off of the tracks.
I think the patriots in Sequin will protect your southern flank, you can sleep well.
We are just all helpless country bumpkins awaiting instructions and guidance from our all powerful, all-knowing, and omnipotent leader, Joe Biden. Not sure where exactly "Sequin" is. For the record, I don't think Joe Biden has a clue where Sequin or Seguin is either.
whiterock
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Booray said:

whiterock said:

Booray said:

whiterock said:

Booray said:

The Venn diagram would show a large overlap of people who believe Texit could happen with those who believed martial law would be imposed on January 6 to stop the pedophiles.


And then there's the preponderance of people in favor of having a vote on secession as nothing more than a way to scream Foxtrot Uniform to the cultural revolution coastal elites are so preoccupied with.

This is a pretty simple dynamic at play and you're working way too hard to ignore it.


I'm not ignoring it. It is exactly what I am referring to when I say this is a colossal waste of time.
Sense when did political expression of nonsense, a First Amendment right, become a waste of time?

More to the point, progressives can blather one meaningless virtue posture after another, but others can't?

You don't strike me as a devotee of Marcuse, so why the repressive tolerance approach to the secession bill?
The First Amendment has zero to do with my stance; obviously the bill's authors and supporters have the right to talk about it all day long. That their speech is a protected right does not make that speech any less stupid.

My position was perfectly captured by Whiterock when he indicated that the whole movement was just another way for the populists to yell FU at the elites. We don't need people yelling FU at each other. If it was just people sporting silly bumper stickers in a time of relative calm, no big deal. But its not.

Given the events of January 6 where a mob got out of hand after being encouraged by elected officials, I would think that elected officials should cool their rhetoric. Instead, the morons behind this movement are creating expectations that will never be realized, all in service of the grievances of a group who live more prosperous and free lives than any significant population in the history of mankind. No good comes of that.

There are plenty of things the far left does that irritate me. As of yet, however, I have not seen a legislative effort to dismember the country. When that happens, I will vocally opposed it, I promise.

Why on earth would you oppose it?
It is a necessary counterbalance to the madness of the left.
It is a cogent redress of grievance, consistent with natural right of self-determination.
It is exactly the kind of initiative it takes to forge viable centrist positions.

The events of 2020 (where leftists burned cities and created autonomous zones) and 6Jan (where a rightist political demonstration got out of hand inside the capitol) were not caused by rhetoric. They were caused by failures of elites to address fundamental questions of social contract, to enact policies that work toward common good for a vast majority of people. We do not see such things in times of peace & prosperity, where societal leadership is actually working toward unum instead of pluribus. Populism is never a problem when elites are doing good work.

Critics of this initiative are right to note the odds of success are so low as to question the wisdom of the effort, for a long list of legal and practical questions. They are wrong to be so derisive of the effort. Self-determination is an unalienable human right. No individual is obligated to endure tyranny. Every individual has options, up to and including armed revolt. The list of developed countries that have voted to reorder themselves in the last few decades is long. That most failed is not the point; allowing the process to play out diffused tensions that could, and do, lead to worse outcomes.

The premise of Classical Liberalism is that allowing everyone to vent is the best way to diffuse tensions. Ergo, prudent statesman should allow this process to go forward, to give citizens an up-down vote on the issue, and use the outcome to draw lessons on how to best proceed. It the measure fails, well, then you are vindicated, are you not? The crazies on the right who vex you so will be put in their place, will they not? If the measure passes, you would learn that you have misread the situation, and would also be afforded powerful arguments for extracting concessions from the left. Opposing the process in entirety while the left allows its militias to occupy autonomous zones is just plain dumb. It's just unilateral disarmament.

Imposing repressive tolerance on the right while allowing the left to run amok is the worst possible course of action. No society survives when one side of the social contract can disregard laws & norms as a business model while the other is berated for deplorability no matter how stringently it obeys laws & norms.

You are simply not thinking clearly here.

Texasjeremy
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EVENTS SCHEDULED SO FAR FOR THE UPCOMING WEEK (WILL UPDATE AS MORE ARE ANNOUNCED)

TUESDAY (3/23)
AUSTIN - TNM ACTION DAY
8AM-5PM
1100 S. Congress Ave. - Texas State Capitol

WEDNESDAY (3/24)
HOUSTON - WEEKLY MEETING (DISTRICT 17)
10821 S. Post Oak Rd. - Annie's Hamburgers

SATURDAY (3/27)
CORSICANA - FLAG WAVE
11AM-2PM
4021 W. State Hwy 22 - Navarro County Youth Expo

CYPRESS - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
12PM-2PM
25831 Northwest Fwy - Spring Creek BBQ (Cypress Tea Party Meeting)

FORT WORTH - FLAG WAVE
1PM-4PM
4521 S. Hulen St. - Rep. Craig Goldman's District Office

FREDERICKSBURG - TEXIT MARCH
12:30PM-3PM
Starting Point - 100 W. Main St. (Public Parking & Vereins Kirche Museum)

MOODY - FLAG WAVE
11AM-2PM
Intersection of Hwy 317 & 107

MORGAN - TEXIT MEETING
6PM-8PM
128 County Road 1275 - Lakeside Village VFD

TEXARKANA - FLAG WAVE
10AM-11:30AM
4416 W. 7th St. - Corner of Jarvis Pkwy (US-369) & 7th St. (US 59/I-369)

WAXAHACHIE - FLAG WAVE
11AM-2PM
2300 W. Hwy 287 Byp. - Ellis County Youth Expo

MONDAY (3/29)
HALLETTSVILLE - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
6:30PM-8:30PM
100 Market St. - St. Peter's Lutheran Church
TexasScientist
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The Law of Treason.
Credit...The New York Times Archives
See the article in its original context from
April 21, 1861.

The law of treason is very important to the American people. Gardner's Institutes, a law work published by VOORHLIS in January, 1860 pp 2, 3, 33 to 35, 323, 382, 669, 695, 382, 383, furnishes the law on this subject. On these pages the following principles and the authorities supporting them are found:

1. That the President and Congress have the whole of the political, national and inter-state power of the Union, a perpetual Government making the people of the United States one nation, with the States municipal bodies with mere local sovereignty, and having no power to make compacts or agreements ot any kind without the consent of Congress.

2. That the States have no power to form a Confederacy within the Union composed of any of its States.

3. That no State or Confederacy has a right to organize an army or navy, or to make war, or to invade any other State by military power, or to seek to divice and disrupt the Union of our thirty-four States, or to change our Government, except by an amendment of the National Constitution in the mode pointed out by it. Any such act is rebellion -- it is treason.

4. That all attempts to defeat, by force or menace, the execution of any act of Congress in any of our thirty-four States, or to seize, for the use of any State, or the Southern Confederacy, any fort, Custom house, mint, or vessel of the Union, or to collect duties, except for the national treasury, and in pursuance of any act of Congress, and all efforts to break up the Union by menace or force, all those acts are, by our law, treason, whether done by private persons, or armed men, or officers of a Southern Confederacy, State Legislatures or State Conventions.

5. That all the above unlawful acts are not only illegal and subject the wrong-doers to the penalties of treason, but all persons who aid the existing Southern conspiracy in the disruption of our Union, by making, selling, or transporting arms, munitions of war, clothing or supplies of men, money, or anything for the rebel armies, are traitors, if done with knowledge.

6. That any persons who, by newspaper articles, or Governors' or Mayors' proclamations or messages, or by recommending the doing of any acts of treason, shall advise a rebellion, or any act of treason which shall be carried out by levying war upon the Union, is a traitor, as any aid given, or participation by parties remote from the place of the armed meeting, makes the same treasonable, if in the smallest degree it aids and encourages the treason by levying war at a remote point.

7. That the selling of vessels, or furnishing supplies, or acting as an agent to buy them, or to borrow money for the Southern Confederacy, is an act of treason in every person knowing the object.

8. That the President is authorized to call out the whole Militia, Military and Naval power of the United States, to put down insurrection and rebellion in any State and Territory of the Union.

9. That, as Supreme Executive, he has the power, and it is his duty to put down rebellion and preserve, in full force the national Constitution and the Union.

10. That secession is treason, and that all who uphold it by menace or force, or by giving aid in any degree, or in any manner, are traitors, and legally subject to capital punishment.

11. That in a representative Republic like ours no right of revolution exists, as the essence of republicanism is that the constitutional majority of votes shall rule, and not force. That in monarchies the right of rebellion in extreme cases may exist, but not in republics, where the ballot-box effects all changes the majority desire peaceably. Abandoning this doctrine, despotism or anarchy must prevail.

12. The loaning of money to the Southern Confederacy is an act of treason.
The above abstract of the principles of our law, and their application to existing facts, are furnished to guard men against treason, and capital punishment, its legal penalty. There are men in our midst who have already incurred the penalties of treason, and arc now enjoying a temporary immunity by the forbearance of the Government.




whiterock
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Item 11 is quite a bit more restrictive than the Declaration of Independence.
quash
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whiterock said:

Item 11 is quite a bit more restrictive than the Declaration of Independence.
You wonder where self-determination fits.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
TexasScientist
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quash said:

whiterock said:

Item 11 is quite a bit more restrictive than the Declaration of Independence.
You wonder where self-determination fits.
Apparently, it doesn't fit.
Texasjeremy
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EVENTS SCHEDULED SO FAR FOR THE UPCOMING WEEK (WILL UPDATE AS MORE ARE ANNOUNCED)

MONDAY (3/29)
HALLETTSVILLE - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
6:30PM-8:30PM
100 Market St. - St. Peter's Lutheran Church Fellowship Hall

WEDNESDAY (3/31)
HOUSTON - WEEKLY MEETING (DISTRICT 17)
8AM-9:30AM
10821 South Post Oak Rd. - Annie's Hamburgers

THURSDAY (4/1)
CROCKETT - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
6PM-8PM
412 E. Houston Ave. - Moosehead Cafe

HOUSTON - TNM MEETUP
4:30PM-7:30PM
2118 Lamar St. - Truck Yard

SATURDAY (4/3)
ARLINGTON
1PM-4PM
4381 W. Green Oaks Blvd - State Rep Tony Tinderholt's District Office

HOUSTON - TNM FLAG WAVE
10AM-12PM
4501 Magnolia Cove Dr. - State Rep Huberty's District Office

LAKE JACKSON - TNM FLAG WAVE
1:30PM-3:30PM
121 TX-332 - Walmart
whiterock
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TexasScientist said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

Item 11 is quite a bit more restrictive than the Declaration of Independence.
You wonder where self-determination fits.
Apparently, it doesn't fit.
"Inside the heart of every progressive is a tyrant screaming to get out."
Texasjeremy
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EVENTS SCHEDULED SO FAR FOR THE UPCOMING WEEK (WILL UPDATE AS MORE ARE ANNOUNCED)

WEDNESDAY (4/7)
HOUSTON - TNM FLAG WAVE
10:30AM-12:30PM
811 Main St. - Rep. Cody Vasut's Law Firm

THURSDAY (4/8)
AUSTIN - TNM CAPITOL ACTION DAY
9AM-TBD
1100 S. Congress Ave. - Texas State Capitol

CORSICANA - TNM DISTRICT 22 MEET UP
6:30PM-8:30PM
1401 W. 7th Ave - La Pradera

MESQUITE - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM SENIOR DISTRICT DIRECTOR DON TEER)
7PM-8:30PM
1116 Hillcrest St. - Evans Recreation Center

ONLINE - Q&A w/TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER (TNM Members Only, register at tnm.me)
7:30PM-8:30PM

SATURDAY (4/10)
ALVIN - TNM FLAG WAVE
11AM-12:30PM
1600 E. Hwy 6 - First National Bank of Alvin

COLLINSVILLE - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
9AM-3PM
27812 FM 902 - Big Boar Marksman Contest

GRANBURY - TNM FLAG WAVE
11AM-1PM
735 E. Hwy 377 - Walmart Parking Lot

HILLSBORO - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
10AM-3PM
306 I-35 - MTAG Show & Shine

HOUSTON - TNM FLAG WAVE
10AM-11:30AM
9525 Katy Frwy - Rep. Jim Murphy's Office

MIDLAND - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
9AM-5PM
2514 Arena Trail - Horseshoe Arena

MOUNT PLEASANT - TNM FLAG WAVE
10:30AM-11AM
2306 S. Jefferson Ave. - Beall's Parking Lot

SAN ANTONIO - ALAMO MEMORIAL MARCH
6:30PM-7:30PM
300 Alamo Plaza - The Alamo

TYLER - TNM FLAG WAVE
1PM-3PM
4301 S. Broadway Ave. - On The Border

WACO - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
9AM-5PM
2801 W. Waco Drive - Lee Lockwood Library & Museum

WACO - TNM FLAG WAVE
10AM-10:30AM
900 Austin Ave. - Senator Brian Birdwell & Rep. Charles Anderson's Office

SUNDAY (4/11)
MIDLAND - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
10AM-5PM
2514 Arena Trail - Horseshoe Arena

PORTLAND - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
6:30PM-8:30PM
1702 US 181 N - Hard Knocks Bar & Grill

WACO - TNM INFORMATION BOOTH
10AM-4PM
2801 W. Waco Drive - Lee Lockwood Library & Museum

MONDAY (4/12)
CORPUS CHRISTI - GUEST SPEAKER (TNM PRESIDENT DANIEL MILLER)
11:30AM-1:30PM
707 N. Shoreline Blvd. - Holiday Inn Marina
quash
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whiterock said:

TexasScientist said:

quash said:

whiterock said:

Item 11 is quite a bit more restrictive than the Declaration of Independence.
You wonder where self-determination fits.
Apparently, it doesn't fit.
"Inside the heart of every progressive is a tyrant screaming to get out."
Progressives want a tyranny of the majority, regressives want a tyrant. Six of one half a dozen of the other.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
 
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