Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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historian said:

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Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

---

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.

---

Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.

---

Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination

---

Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.

---

"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

---

That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.

---

The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "

---

Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?

---

None of the three reported it including Barnes.

---

I included four names, not three. Barnes was the only one who heard about it firsthand. I also thought she told Barnes that she did not want it being reported to anyone including JA. Like I said before, this allegation had already been sent up the chain of command. I still do not see how Briles is responsible for this. I definitely do not see Briles shielding anyone from rape allegations or covering up rape. That stuff mentioned in the texts goes on in ever single program in the nation. Name me one where it doesn't.

---

You are correct the girl did not want it reported to the police or JA. It was never sent up the chain of command - the assistants were duped and very foolish in their tweets.

From the paragraph above, Briles & McCaw knew JA (Title IX) had jurisdiction and they knew Barnes had not reported it.

---

Well then it was Barnes' responsibility to file a formal report with JA. Maybe Barnes just respected her wishes and decided not file. Maybe it was just a huge miscommunication. I still don't see the intent to shield or coverup. We can go back and forth all day long if you want, JEB.

The fact that this one disputed, weird incident is the bell cow for melting down our program is just preposterous. This would be an opportunity for discipline and training, not nuclear meltdown.

It's also clear that, in the overall context of their deliveries to WSJ and the unnecessary pleading, they intended for people to draw the inference that our football program was a band of serial rapists being covered for by their head coach. And it worked -- that is exactly what the public at large inferred. This is the bright shiny object to keep attention on football.

They've now been forced to backtrack with this letter that should have never been necessary.

Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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historian said:

---

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

---

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.

---

Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.

---

Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination

---

Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.

---

"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

---

That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.

---

The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "

---

Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?

---

First, I think we we were Judicial Affairs then. Second, Yes. That is what schools with Title IX departments and training of school staff do..Everybody reports when they are aware and it goes in the same file.

Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

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Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

historian said:

---

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

---

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.

---

Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.

---

Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination

---

Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.

---

"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

---

That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.

---

The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "

---

Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?

---

None of the three reported it including Barnes.

---

I included four names, not three. Barnes was the only one who heard about it firsthand. I also thought she told Barnes that she did not want it being reported to anyone including JA. Like I said before, this allegation had already been sent up the chain of command. I still do not see how Briles is responsible for this. I definitely do not see Briles shielding anyone from rape allegations or covering up rape. That stuff mentioned in the texts goes on in ever single program in the nation. Name me one where it doesn't.

---

You are correct the girl did not want it reported to the police or JA. It was never sent up the chain of command - the assistants were duped and very foolish in their tweets.

From the paragraph above, Briles & McCaw knew JA (Title IX) had jurisdiction and they knew Barnes had not reported it.

---

Well then it was Barnes' responsibility to file a formal report with JA. Maybe Barnes just respected her wishes and decided not file. Maybe it was just a huge miscommunication. I still don't see the intent to shield or coverup. We can go back and forth all day long if you want, JEB.

---

If you go off the Garland's statements deposition there was not policy/responsibility at least that he would admit. Mesh that with the regent statements to the WSJ (Briles didn't report) and you have a parsing of words to dump on Briles. Feed the media frenzy.

Mesh that with the claims made in the questioning of Garland in deposition (Baylor Health Center - no rape kits, didn't refer to Title IX, didn't report to Title IX, Garland did not know of policy, and referred to a free clinic for STD testing). I wonder if Baylor even had staff training. We will probably never know as they will settle all the cases.

But in my school's training I am subject to firing or discipline if I fail to report an assault to Title IX. If the reporting victim says they do not wish to report to Title IX or police, then I still am responsible to report to Title IX. That way the school did not ignore a complaint.

NoBSU said:

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Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

Eastside Bear said:

---

Keyser Soze said:

---

historian said:

---

Fire the BOR.

They seem to have been the source of all the problems from the beginning (& they certainly amplified them through the course of this entire episode). They also destroyed the career of a good man. When all this broke, CAB said he was the scapegoat, now it seems Baylor is admitting that.

What a sad legacy for a "Christian university"!!

---

You need to read that letter closer. It says no such thing.


It basically says no one came to him directly and was turned away. That is it.

We have been labeled Rape U because of the players he allowed on our campus and went out of his way to shield from investigation. They had their own system of justice against school & Title IX rules.

He insulated himself and was the last to know - he was the Sgt Shultz of P5 head coaches with fixers putting very long hours.

---

Briles never directly or indirectly covered up rape. I would also have to say that it is pretty commonplace for college football coaches to have the same setup that Briles had at Baylor.

---

Briles never covered up rape. I don't like that wording at all even indirectly. It is too harsh and the letter helps end that.

A more appropriate wording would be "shielded players from investigation of accusations" - much softer but still enough to justify a termination

---

Alright. Briles never shielded players from investigation of rape accusations. Directly or indirectly.

---

"Importantly, Shillinglaw was also integrally involved with player discipline in a football program that became a disciplinary black hole. When Coach Briles, Shillinglaw or others were 4 alerted to misconduct, they routinely did not report these incidents to University officials outside the football program (these officials outside the football program worked in the Office of Judicial Affairs, which is responsible for investigating and administering student discipline, and the Title IX Office, which in November 2014 assumed responsibility for investigating allegations of physical and sexual assault). Briles, Shillinglaw, and others set up a structure within football that often insulated Briles from knowing about misconduct. In those circumstances when information about acts of misconduct bubbled its way up to him, Briles encouraged Shillinglaw and others on his staff to keep the problems internal to the program and not alert other campus authorities. For example, when confronted with allegations of a gang rape against some of his players, Briles made no real attempt to determine if his players were responsible, to report them to authorities outside the Athletics Department or to make sure his players were punished, if warranted. "

---

That allegation had already been sent up the chain of command before Briles heard it. He never spoke to her directly and his advice was to go to the police. I thought I read somewhere that those players were not even on the team anymore. This young lady didn't come forward with the complaint until 9-12 months after the incident.

---

The Sgt Shultz defense does not hold water :


"Pepper Hamilton found no evidence that anyone, including Coach Briles, notified Judicial Affairs, BUPD, or anyone else outside of Athletics of the allegation. If someone had called or visited Judicial Affairs it would be reflected in its records because Judicial Affairs logs each call and visit. It also sends out internal email notifications about any alleged Title IX or Honor Code violation. Recent follow-up inquiries found no records showing that anyone McCaw, Coach Briles, the other coach, or any other member of the Athletics Department reported the 2013 allegation to Judicial Affairs,


When initially interviewed by Pepper Hamilton, Coach Briles said he recalled only "bits and pieces" of the gang rape allegation. In follow-up interviews, Coach Briles said he did not remember meeting the coach but recalled hearing about the victim because she had been in his office about another incident. Later, Coach Briles, the victim's coach, and McCaw each blamed a lack of clear University guidelines for not reporting the incident to Judicial Affairs.


Pepper Hamilton concluded that a number of factors had contributed to the code of silence within football. Those factors included the absence of a full-time Title IX Coordinator prior to November 2014, unclear reporting procedures, and inadequate Title IX training for Athletics Department personnel. However, Pepper Hamilton also concluded that Coach Briles and McCaw knew that Judicial Affairs had jurisdiction for investigating sexual assaults. Indeed, on April 23, 2013 the very same day Coach Briles learned about the student-athlete's account of being gang raped he was forwarded a letter stating that Judicial Affairs had investigated and cleared another one of his players of sexual assault allegations. "

---

Are you saying that Barnes, Hill, Briles, and McCaw should have filed four separate reports to Judicial Affairs for the same incident?

---

None of the three reported it including Barnes.

---

I included four names, not three. Barnes was the only one who heard about it firsthand. I also thought she told Barnes that she did not want it being reported to anyone including JA. Like I said before, this allegation had already been sent up the chain of command. I still do not see how Briles is responsible for this. I definitely do not see Briles shielding anyone from rape allegations or covering up rape. That stuff mentioned in the texts goes on in ever single program in the nation. Name me one where it doesn't.

---

You are correct the girl did not want it reported to the police or JA. It was never sent up the chain of command - the assistants were duped and very foolish in their tweets.

From the paragraph above, Briles & McCaw knew JA (Title IX) had jurisdiction and they knew Barnes had not reported it.

---

Well then it was Barnes' responsibility to file a formal report with JA. Maybe Barnes just respected her wishes and decided not file. Maybe it was just a huge miscommunication. I still don't see the intent to shield or coverup. We can go back and forth all day long if you want, JEB.

---

If you go off the Garland's statements deposition there was not policy/responsibility at least that he would admit. Mesh that with the regent statements to the WSJ (Briles didn't report) and you have a parsing of words to dump on Briles. Feed the media frenzy.

Mesh that with the claims made in the questioning of Garland in deposition (Baylor Health Center - no rape kits, didn't refer to Title IX, didn't report to Title IX, Garland did not know of policy, and referred to a free clinic for STD testing). I wonder if Baylor even had staff training. We will probably never know as they will settle all the cases.

But in my school's training I am subject to firing or discipline if I fail to report an assault to Title IX. If the reporting victim says they do not wish to report to Title IX or police, then I still am responsible to report to Title IX. That way the school did not ignore a complaint.

---

Thanks for the thoughtful and constructive response. It's good to have someone on here that has had Title IX training.

Robert Wilson said:

---

True

And I think it is fair to say that the PH report should not be quoted like it is some kind of gospel. It is one angle from an investigator. It is not the product of a process that includes any advocacy on the behalf of its targets.

---

Welcome to Title IX.

Bring back Briles

you cannot put the genie back in the bottle again. Bringing back Briles was not possible from December 2015 and on. The die was cast. He would have been forced out one way or another. I'm in the camp that he deserves another chance to coach and that CFL situation was nonsense. But not surprising given this weak minded generation.

Do we have to revisit this nonsense after every loss? Repeat after me. THE PAST IS LAST. Matt Rhule is our coach for the foreseeable future. He will win and he will win big. Quit sucking off the teat of some romantic notion that he was irreplaceable. He allowed Baylor fans to envision what was possible and he was the catalyst for lots of action. Some of it good.

Matt Rhule will build on his legacy.

Isn't every team in the NCAA guilty of letting gifted players feel that they are special?
How do you think they get recruited.. ALL coaches tell them they special.

Only in the bubble do people believe Art cannot get a job because of Baylor.
Start with the Worldwide Leader and advertisers. They own college football and the bowls at the NCAA level.
They have the gold and make all the rules.
I know it is frustrating to some fans Art cannot get a job. It is not Baylor's fault. His relationships with those in charge is too damaged.
Art wastes ammo firing at Baylor. The more his crew fires the trust evaporates. Outsiders don't feel the need to get involved. Coaches won't speak out to defend him. Why? He made it easier for all coaches to get fired.

baylorfan59 said:

---

Isn't every team in the NCAA guilty of letting gifted players feel that they are special?
How do you think they get recruited.. ALL coaches tell them they special.

---

Special, yes. But no, not every staff lets them slide when accused of serious crimes or multiple minor ones.

xiledinok said:

---

It is not Baylor's fault. His relationships with those in charge is too damaged.
Art wastes ammo firing at Baylor. The more his crew fires the trust evaporates. Outsiders don't feel the need to get involved. Coaches won't speak out to defend him. Why? He made it easier for all coaches to get fired.

---

Art never successfully proved he could work for anyone in the college ranks, but Ian McCaw. And people now look at Ian and see him for the man that he is. A straight up charlatan.

When you get your boss fired, it sends a huge message to the world that you're a dangerous investment and potentially bad employee. No matter how many games you won. None of the Briles supporters want to acknowledge this, but it's the same reason people won't touch Bobby Knight.

Briles thinks he's above the organization he's been a part of.

The message is, he's not. And he's not getting it.

Baylor ruined a good man's life to cover for BOR

xiledinok said:

---

I know it is frustrating to some fans Art cannot get a job. It is not Baylor's fault.

---

It is Baylor's fault

I still have a job.

Tommy_Lou_Ramsower said:

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I still have a job.

---

Which is one of the problems that has been hopefully addressed. If he goes quietly then, he will get the McCaw treatment not Briles treatment.

The problem isn't that they let Briles and McCaw go. The problem is that RR, supervisor over frats, dept head over general students (?title), etc. Were basicslly ignored. I doubt we will ever know but a bet the crisis management team decided to single out 10% of the problem and sweep 90% under the rug.

Reality is that for someone who won so many games, Briles had more powerful enemies at Baylor than he did friends (RR the opposite). Briles needed friends at the networks and shoe companies that would push his case for rehire. A bunch of nonames at ESPN were allowed to make their bones on him. Nike or ABC/ESPN executives sat on their hands.

I started pondering today, if there's anyone who could really help Briles and his reputation for potential future employment it's Grant Teaff. His word would mean something to a lot of people, more than this goofy letter. But he's been pretty quiet about this whole thing as far as I can remember. He either doesn't have anything good to say, or he's almost as out of the loop as most of us are, or he just doesn't want to be involved in any part of it. But it seems like he's the kind of guy who would normally step up one way or another.


The other major thing that still baffles me is how Butch Jones, who told a player he was a traitor if he reported a rape by two teammates, still holds that job after victims were payed off. But Briles couldn't even get a job at Jimmy Johns if he wanted to. It seems like bull***** How is the perception that widely different, other than just Tennessee isn't Baylor and SEC isn't Big 12?

Dia del DougO said:

---

I started pondering today, if there's anyone who could really help Briles and his reputation for potential future employment it's Grant Teaff. His word would mean something to a lot of people, more than this goofy letter. But he's been pretty quiet about this whole thing as far as I can remember. He either doesn't have anything good to say, or he's almost as out of the loop as most of us are, or he just doesn't want to be involved in any part of it. But it seems like he's the kind of guy who would normally step up one way or another.


The other major thing that still baffles me is how Butch Jones, who told a player he was a traitor if he reported a rape by two teammates, still holds that job after victims were payed off. But Briles couldn't even get a job at Jimmy Johns if he wanted to. It seems like bull***** How is the perception that widely different, other than just Tennessee isn't Baylor and SEC isn't Big 12?

---

Difference is leadership at the top plain and simple.
Traffic can't win either way on this one.

Dia del DougO said:

---

I started pondering today, if there's anyone who could really help Briles and his reputation for potential future employment it's Grant Teaff. His word would mean something to a lot of people, more than this goofy letter. But he's been pretty quiet about this whole thing as far as I can remember. He either doesn't have anything good to say, or he's almost as out of the loop as most of us are, or he just doesn't want to be involved in any part of it. But it seems like he's the kind of guy who would normally step up one way or another.


The other major thing that still baffles me is how Butch Jones, who told a player he was a traitor if he reported a rape by two teammates, still holds that job after victims were payed off. But Briles couldn't even get a job at Jimmy Johns if he wanted to. It seems like bull***** How is the perception that widely different, other than just Tennessee isn't Baylor and SEC isn't Big 12?

---

I think you nailed it. The power behind CFB is television networks. The SEC is more protected. OU was protected because the networks want their brand strong come realignment.

REX said:

---

Dia del DougO said:

---

I started pondering today, if there's anyone who could really help Briles and his reputation for potential future employment it's Grant Teaff. His word would mean something to a lot of people, more than this goofy letter. But he's been pretty quiet about this whole thing as far as I can remember. He either doesn't have anything good to say, or he's almost as out of the loop as most of us are, or he just doesn't want to be involved in any part of it. But it seems like he's the kind of guy who would normally step up one way or another.


The other major thing that still baffles me is how Butch Jones, who told a player he was a traitor if he reported a rape by two teammates, still holds that job after victims were payed off. But Briles couldn't even get a job at Jimmy Johns if he wanted to. It seems like bull***** How is the perception that widely different, other than just Tennessee isn't Baylor and SEC isn't Big 12?

---

Difference is leadership at the top plain and simple.
Traffic can't win either way on this one.

---

Hogwash. Briles was under heavy fire after the Sam U. verdict. That answer to all your scenarios is that we shouldn't have fired Briles. That discounts your analysis.

NoBSU said:

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REX said:

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Dia del DougO said:

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I started pondering today, if there's anyone who could really help Briles and his reputation for potential future employment it's Grant Teaff. His word would mean something to a lot of people, more than this goofy letter. But he's been pretty quiet about this whole thing as far as I can remember. He either doesn't have anything good to say, or he's almost as out of the loop as most of us are, or he just doesn't want to be involved in any part of it. But it seems like he's the kind of guy who would normally step up one way or another.


The other major thing that still baffles me is how Butch Jones, who told a player he was a traitor if he reported a rape by two teammates, still holds that job after victims were payed off. But Briles couldn't even get a job at Jimmy Johns if he wanted to. It seems like bull***** How is the perception that widely different, other than just Tennessee isn't Baylor and SEC isn't Big 12?

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Difference is leadership at the top plain and simple.
Traffic can't win either way on this one.

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Hogwash. Briles was under heavy fire after the Sam U. verdict. That answer to all your scenarios is that we shouldn't have fired Briles. That discounts your analysis.

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That goes back to the lie Peterson told the media, and he never had to answer for it. Then you had the institutional problem of Baylor not having any Title IX transfer issues with him, because Boise never reported any. That had nothing to do with Briles, who was just told Sam was homesick and needed to be back in Texas.

There's really no need to replay all that stuff again. Th fact still remains that Butch Jones actually did try to cover up a rape first hand when it was reported to him, yet he isn't public enemy number one, much less still keeping his job and having the whole thing just go away.

And Butch's team is kicking off as we speak with no mention on the Tennessee rape scandals. Over/under is set at 1/2 and I'm taking the under.

Aside from that he should have been fired for being a terrible head coach.

The essence: Had Briles been Head Football Coach at, say, the University of Texas, and the same events occurred, he would still be the head coach and his team would be a national contender.

This letter is consistent with the idea that the BOR panicked and fired Briles and everyone they thought could be blamed besides themselves, in a cowardly attempt to save their own butts.

Osodecentx said:

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Baylor ruined a good man's life to cover for BOR

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This.

Osodecentx said:

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Baylor ruined a good man's life to cover for BOR

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Yes and they may pay for this for years.

Dia del DougO said:

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And Butch's team is kicking off as we speak with no mention on the Tennessee rape scandals. Over/under is set at 1/2 and I'm taking the under.

Aside from that he should have been fired for being a terrible head coach.

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Finebaum is also a Tennessee alum I think. Plenty of $$$ for ESPN TV and radio not to focus on the scandal.

Baylor MBB murder is still brought up in media. When is the last time you heard the media talk about the Cincinnati player under Huggins that taped his roommate to a chair and tortured him. He then ordered friends to take him to Columbus then kill and dump him. All because some money was missed. Player had been reinstated after two alcohol related incidents. Huggins was asked to resign several years later after more player incidents. That was ESPN protecting a Big East program and coach.

REX said:

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Osodecentx said:

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Baylor ruined a good man's life to cover for BOR

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Yes and they may pay for this for years.

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They already paid for it $$$$. If donors and alumni can't force a change then it can only come from within the board. My be it has. They are just going the RR and TLD route of dismissal.

80sBEAR said:

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The only thing that brings me great joy on this thread is seeing the ad on the upper right hand corner selling University of Texas Football season tickets. Sorry. I don't mean to derail the thread.

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That might've been partially my fault. I used to click those whenever I saw them to cost those jerks money. My bad!

Sam U didn't get Briles in legitimate trouble. Most of the media backlash over this was not justified.

Sam U did get the PH ball rolling and they unearthed plenty of real problems.

Keyser Soze said:

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Sam U didn't get Briles in legitimate trouble. Most of the media backlash over this was not justified.

Sam U did get the PH ball rolling and they unearthed plenty of real problems.

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I would love to know what was unearthed that wasn't already known. I think PH was hired at Starr's suggestion to show that Baylor was serious about supporting sexual assault victims. Starr probably didn't think it was going to come back and bite him.

Chuckroast said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Sam U didn't get Briles in legitimate trouble. Most of the media backlash over this was not justified.

Sam U did get the PH ball rolling and they unearthed plenty of real problems.

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I would love to know what was unearthed that wasn't already known. I think PH was hired at Starr's suggestion to show that Baylor was serious about supporting sexual assault victims. Starr probably didn't think it was going to come back and bite him.

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Agree

I think PH was rightfully hired to get an outside independent party to check things out. The results were more than anyone expected.

Keyser Soze said:

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Chuckroast said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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Sam U didn't get Briles in legitimate trouble. Most of the media backlash over this was not justified.

Sam U did get the PH ball rolling and they unearthed plenty of real problems.

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I would love to know what was unearthed that wasn't already known. I think PH was hired at Starr's suggestion to show that Baylor was serious about supporting sexual assault victims. Starr probably didn't think it was going to come back and bite him.

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Agree

I think PH was rightfully hired to get an outside independent party to check things out. The results were more than anyone expected.

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Hiring an outside party was a good idea. Hiring one known for Social Justice bias was foolhardy, and Baylor paid for it.

We should've been hiring a litigation defense team from the beginning. We never should have set an expectation that the report (or a summary of it) would be public.

BU84BEAR said:

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REX said:

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BU84BEAR said:

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REX said:

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Keyser Soze said:

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BU84BEAR said:

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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

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chukronos said:

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So, either the leaders of our university were lying when they made it seem like Briles was at fault, or they are lying in the letter. Either way, they are dirtbags and an embarrassment to our school and , even more so, to Christianity.

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The letter suggests he did his job but his subordinates didn't and they should have been fired and not him.

What''s the point? Why say a thing? If you want the world to know he did something to get fired, letters like this don't help your case.

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So, maybe he was terminated for something other than one of the 3 specific things in the letter?

The letter was not addressed to anyone other than Briles. Since Briles did not immediately publish it when received to clear his name, there may have been a reasonable basis to not expect the letter to be made public

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Winner Winner Chicken Dinner !

Things not addressed in the letter:

Football had it's own internal system of justis
17 alleged victims implicating 19 players with 4 of them being gang rapes.
Briles knew of at least one gang rape and didn't report it outside athletics.
Football managed Elliots academic probation when JA should have.
Briles had a system where he was kept in the dark
Shillinglaw fixed things left and right
Assistant coaches met with victims


this thread is filled with people who have no idea what a venn diagram is

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What assistant coaches met with victims?
You say this over and over again
Which coaches?????

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Doris Lozano (domestic assault not sexual assault) met with Lebby. The volleyball player's parents met with 2 assistants one of which was reported as the Strength and Conditioning Coach soon after the rape. Someone sent a Bruin to talk Armstead's victim out of reporting rape to the police. If you can decide the motivation of the BOR based on what is obvious to you, then I can decide who might have sent the Bruin based on what is "obvious" to me.

(I am being facetious, but it is plausible)

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No no no. Delores DID NOT meet with Leb.
Kaz DID NOT meet with parents. That is just incorrect BS. Are you a regent?

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The book Violated states "the Strength and Conditioning Coach met with parents" I didnt say Kaz.

Sorry, but this Waco Trib article says she reported it directly to Jeff Lebby:

http://www.wacotrib.com/sports/baylor/football/baylor-graduate-to-file-lawsuit-claiming-coaches-failed-to-act/article_357df960-7622-59f2-8aae-27c5acc30399.html

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"A Title IX lawsuit against Baylor University will claim assistant football coach Jeff Lebby and former head coach Art Briles did not sufficiently respond to reports made directly to Lebby of violence by a player, according to a Facebook post on an account for ESPN reporter Joe Schad." ...

"Lozano said she reported to Chafin's mother and Lebby after the first incident ,,,"

Yup - that looks like irrefutable evidence to me. Certainly no court would question a Facebook posting or a statement made by a plaintiff.