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Some Drastic thoughts on hiring and firing . . .

30,246 Views | 246 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by BUbearinARK
Stranger
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Many of you are acquainted with me and know that I have been personally attending Baylor football games, non-stop for over 62 years. I've served on college and public school boards and had to hire and fire coaches, superintendents, college presidents and untold school teachers. In addition, for over 15 years i had 70 plus employees at any given time.

I owned Baylor football tickets in all sports for many years and have contributed well over six figures to Baylor Athletics

That doesn't mean I'm smart, but I have plenty of experience. I've seen this sort of train wreck before. I was told this by a smart man many years ago and truth and experience bear out this statement:

"It's not the employees you fire that cost you the most money. It's the ones you DON'T fire."

That addage has been proven true to me many, many times. It's really hard sometime to let go of a guy that you just knew would work out, especially if you have a lot of money invested in him. If you've stuck your neck out on a hiring decision it's hard to back down. Nobody likes to be proven dead-ass wrong.

Matt Rhule may be a good Christian man, a great family man, a man of character and a hale fellow well met. But a good fit as a football coach for the Baylor Bears, he is not.

Baylor has a bad habit of hiring guys like that.

Bill Beall and Kevin Steele were two of those guys that fit that profile. In both cases the Board of Regents made those hires because they fit the Baylor image. They passed over some coaches that would have probably won them more ball games. I know of one of those "pass-overs" that won a national championship at another university.

Kevin Steele was hired because a couple of those all-knowing Regents were impressed by his bs that he attended Sunday School and Church every Sunday, even during football season. Another applicant was asked by the BOR if he was a church-goer if he attended faithfully. He answered that he did, but not during football season. An honest answer was apparently not what they wanted. The only thing that mattered was the color of his prayer cloth.

It is my fear that the BOR acted unwisely with Rhule (:and Rhoads for that matter) because they were more interested in repairing their image (which they iniated) that to hire a real candidate.

Losers like Beall and Steele have a look and a manner about them. Steele choked his first two games at Baylor and the remarks that followed both losses were telling. I was sitting in a skybox as a guest of a letterman/donor at the UNLV debacle. It was the first game for the skyboxes and spirits were high for the new regime. Like everyone else we cringed at what we saw on the field.

Steele had invited us to the press conference after the game and what we saw made us sick. Instead of owning up to his mistake Steele slimed around some excuse that he was trying to teach his players to win. His inability to look anyone in the eye and his preaching of that goody two shoes theology during the press conference assured us he was in over his head and didn't have a clue about what to do to turn us around. We suffered even worse as his tenure wore on. I hate to admit it, but after the 70-22 blood letting at Cal, I bet $50 a game on Baylor's opponent and gave the points on all of the Bears remaining games that season. And I won $500 bucks. Baylor never covered.

Sadly, after that game, Baylor gave Steele a one year extension. Talk about throwing good money after bad.

So . . . down to Rhule (and Rhodes).

Rhule has that look and manner about him. My mind flashed back to that first Steele press conference. He even wears Steele's five o clock shadow. Close your eyes and you think Steele is speaking.

He has no answers. He has that same smug look and preaches those same platitudes while refusing to look anybody in the eye. He brought slow, stodgy old up-east, Big X football into Texas and has refused to try what has actually worked here in recent years. Instead of embracing success he has decided to shove his will upon this team. I realize there are injuries,but this guy is offering no solutions.

You all know what Steele did to Baylor's program. For you young pups (I was a student then) Beall went winless his first year, won one game his second year and won a whopping two his third year, none of them conference games. In his defense, Beall just never knew what to do. Lord, do we wish we only had a three year deal on Rhule?

So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.

That's what needs to happen toot-sweet. Baylor will not win another game this year under this good Christian man. If they do, it will be celebrated as a moral victory so that Rhule can live to fight another day and draw another $4 million paycheck.

Pay the guy off. So what if it costs $14 million. They've given more than that to women crying rape. (some were legitimate, for sure). The BOR will soon have payments on a stadium they can't afford when the fans and donors decide to leave and sit on their wallets.

As I mentioned earlier, they cannot afford NOT to fire him.! The time is now not later.
I'm a Bearbacker
Shortys Daddy
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Excellent post! I couldn't agree more!!!!
Quinton
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Stranger said:

He has no answers. He has that same smug look and preaches those same platitudes while refusing to look anybody in the eye. He brought slow, stodgy old up-east, Big X football into Texas and has refused to try what has actually worked here in recent years. Instead of embracing success he has decided to shove his will upon this team. I realize there are injuries,but this guy is offering no solutions.

Very wise observations. The shoving his will shows the stubbornness. And to the massive injuries, a lot of it is his staff's fault for not balancing an already depleted roster with the need to build toughness. That is on him to an extent as well.
TenBears
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Solid. I'll say though that Rhule is at least not completely dislikeable, as was Steele. I was around for beall but not old enough to remember how likeable he was.
CuddleBear
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One of the best posts I've read...spot on! Perhaps it's time to fly a banner...YANKEE...GO HOME!
REX
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What Stranger said!
RegentCoverup
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We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
Sic'On
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I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
PartyBear
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"God put me here because things like this would happen not to stop things like this from happening ". He said about the game.

Lame he needs to go. This God card is BS. Steele played it here and never used it again at anothe job.

Here is my question surely the contract has some minimal performance mandate it it. Otherwise all these coaches could take a job just show up be fire proof for a few years and just become millionaires. Surely they are not so lopsided in favor of the coach.
Self Made Bear
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Stranger said:


So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.
.


It will be at least four years before this happens. The Board has not shown one iota of competence in any matter concerning football. Plus, they would have to admit they were wrong, and as we have seen, neither they nor their cronies on this board are ever going to do that.
OldSchoolBU
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he will have 4-5 years to get the job done. End of story. Delude yourselves with whatever nonsense you want to in the interim but he will have that time frame. He needs to be winning championships by the end of that time frame.

Your comparisons to Steele and Beall hold no weight other than they all have an l in their last name (so did Briles). Rhule has a track record of winning championships in the top G5 conference similar to guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban before they took power 5 jobs.

Football is entertainment. Enjoy watching this work of beauty that will be carved out of a very ugly piece of marble that looks ugliest when the first chisel strikes it.
The past is last! Be a champion today!
Stranger
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Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?
I'm a Bearbacker
Krieg
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Great post Stranger. He needs to go, and yesterday. He's going to lose the next recruiting class and will never be able to recover at that point. We need to hire someone that can win with someone else's players. This guy can't get out of his own way to do that, so he needs to get out of our way.

Also, as donors and season ticket holders, as much as I hate to say it we owe the team, students, Waco, and other alumni to not only call for it to happen, but to make it clear we won't financially support bad leadership. If they bring him back next year and have 25k people in the stadium, they'll have to fire him. That's the only real leverage we have.
BaylorProud77
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
I didn't want to accept this but you are right. Great post to you also stranger. The thing is, he will get his 3 or 4 years and if we have not improved I'm still not sure they will get rid of him.
OldSchoolBU
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.
The past is last! Be a champion today!
boognish_bear
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I think with conference realignment hovering on the horizon we don't have the luxury to play wait-and-see. I am not saying we fire him after two games But we need to keep a very short leash.

We are one of the most hated programs in college football in the country right now...add to that perennial losing.... we will for sure be left without a seat with the upcoming game of conference realignment musical chairs if we don't get back on a winning track ASAP.
Sic'On
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Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On
CorsicanaBear
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Your first loss is usually your least loss.
Illigitimus non carborundum
RegentCoverup
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OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.

So if mack is responsible, why wasn't he asking the questions? Why were board members holding committee meetings and Q&A with the candidates.

You might want to tell the candidates it was all Mack Rhoades, because that's not what they are saying..
PartyBear
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Linda Livingston seems to be a no nonsense person. She fired Ramsower and that Kappa woman (name escapes me right now) right off the bat. She is a student athlete at a P5 as well. She inherited Rhoades. She may be thinking Rhoades has shown her enough that she wants her own person in. Rhoades is also on if the Hughes paid ADs in the country. He has failed miserably with the football program. A healthy football program of course leads to more exposure more potential students and most of all more donations. She knows the costs of this debacle. As do Waco business leaders.
Grizz Air
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Agree with OP. Maybe we could keep Rhule on for a 5 figure salary to be team chaplain or player development coach or whatever. Just nothing involving x's and o's.
Grizz Air
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Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On


If we had just lost to bama and the osu i would agree. But we just lost to LIBERTY and UTSA, for crying out loud!
OldSchoolBU
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.

So if mack is responsible, why wasn't he asking the questions? Why were board members holding committee meetings and Q&A with the candidates.

You might want to tell the candidates it was all Mack Rhoades, because that's not what they are saying..
the board of regents did no such thing. Rhule said he met with a couple of people during the interview process. One was a regent, 3 Baylor employees in the athletic department along with Rhoades. Rhoades hand picked them all to get their feedback. But you believe whatever you want to believe.
The past is last! Be a champion today!
Rev. Dr. Elmer Gantry
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Stranger, you are spot on. I too was a student in the late Bridgers & Beall era. He could not recruit & the product on the field was awful. Students would cheer for a seldom made first down. One could arrive at halftime & sit between the 40 yard lines. Sterling character guys do not necessarily make successful coaches.
The root of Baylor's problem is the BOR. Dr. Reynold's was right to insulate BU from the ratchet-headed fundies, but made no prvision for a regulated regents board. All that we have is a self appointed & anointed board, which is mostly incestuous at its core. The handful of regents who are calling the shots do not know that they don't know. Being a successful business person & having a boatload of money does not mean that one knows split peas from okra in all situations. Until changes are made in the selection of board members, BU will continue to disappoint. And I am not at all impressed with the new President hire. And the cost of attending BU is getting obscene, but the money monster has to be fed.
Grizz Air
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Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Did he go 0-12 with losses to liberty and Texas-burnt-orange-wannabe?
Team America
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I posted this in the game thread last night but, the Rhule hire feels a lot like Kentucky's hire of Billy Gillispie.

Both came from schools with very little previous success. After having 2-3 good seasons, both "moved up".

Both came to their new school preaching "toughness". For Gillispie, that toughness never materialized. He would have two hour practices and have the Team run bleachers on game days. Right now we have numerous guys hurt due to the physicality of practice. I am not saying that practice needs to be a walk in the park, but there is a middle ground.

Fortunately, the Gillispie experiment did not last as long as it could have. The AD decided that it was not the right fit after only 3 seasons. I can only hope that if we continue on this current path, our AD has the same foresight. Hopefully we can get a Calipariesque hire after that in terms of success (I know many people do not like him).

At least Rhule is a more likeable guy than Gillispie. That guy had zero personality.
80sBEAR
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Great post, Stranger. But the Regents must go also. Every last one of them. This includes wives of rich donors that just sit, listen, and never speak up.
BearKamp
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Sadly, we are already seeing the fickle Baylor/Waco fans that we have, and I don't blame them or find fault...it is what it is. Blue bloods may lose fans at times, but they still fill up 3/4 of their 80K-100K stadium and have much more alumni and t shirt fans. The stadium last night was looking Floyd Casey like with completely empty upper level end sections and sprinkled fans. My whole row in my section, where you have to pay more for the seat backs, was completely empty. No one. It's only gonna get worse.

I sat thru Steele games in Floyd Casey knowing we would lose and that we would never sniff a conference championship. I always hoped that the next Teaff was coming in because that was the best we ever had and the only thing we knew to be the best that Baylor could have. Then comes Briles and changes the school into a Offensive PowerHouse. I would wear my shirts in states like FL or Cali and people would randomly want to talk how much they loved the Baylor offense. The alumni had come back and Waco peeps and other non alumni wanted in. New Stadium and facilities and National Championship talks. Everyone wanted to see the Briles offense and Top 25 talk.

Now....we are literally worse than when Steele was here. It literally feels like the Death Penalty. This will snowball and spiral. Recruits will bail and bail quickly. Tom Herman was pulling 3 and 4 star recruits at Houston and kids knew it wasn't a big time program or P5. They wanted to be apart of the excitement going on down South. The thrill is gone and there is nothing fun about watching this team. Vanilla boring offense and defense that looks like 5 year girls at a soccer game staring at butterflies as the ball goes by. Lose the recruits, lose the fans, and the snowball gets out of control to where you don't recover for many years or ever. If it was easy, the UT and other big blue bloods wouldn't have sucked for so long. You don't catch lightning in a bottle twice.

Rhule may be a good man, but what he has done so far is unbelievable. We will not win a game this year. May have 25K in the stands the final game of the year. I don't know the answer, but so far, this is not it.
Mojo Risin'
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BU just went through the hiring process. You think the outcome would be any different this go around with nearly all the same decision makers? This is on the BOR. Until something is done at that level to change faces, the discussion is moot.
Tommy_Lou_Ramsower
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Guys, you don't understand. We really needed to get back to our University's Christian mission. Can we all sing together now?

I'm coming back to the heart of worship, and it's all about you, all about you, Ronald Murff.
boognish_bear
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CMR asking players not to quit on him...

Tommy_Lou_Ramsower
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I ain't quitting. Personally, I don't blame Coach Rhule at all for where we are right now. He was handed a **** sandwich. This one is on Baylor's Board of Regents.
boognish_bear
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Scratchy Bear
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boognish_bear said:


There's a difference between kicking someone in the ass and kicking someone in the nuts. We needed to hire a coach that would do the former, but it looks like he's doing the latter.
Mothra
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OldSchoolBU said:

he will have 4-5 years to get the job done. End of story. Delude yourselves with whatever nonsense you want to in the interim but he will have that time frame. He needs to be winning championships by the end of that time frame.

Your comparisons to Steele and Beall hold no weight other than they all have an l in their last name (so did Briles). Rhule has a track record of winning championships in the top G5 conference similar to guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban before they took power 5 jobs.

Football is entertainment. Enjoy watching this work of beauty that will be carved out of a very ugly piece of marble that looks ugliest when the first chisel strikes it.


Most unintentionally hilarious post I've seen in years.

I was on board with the hire but there are numerous warning signs he is in way over his head. No identity in offense and terrible defense. He's a dinosaur and is going to get eaten up. There's no evidence to justify your faith he will turn it around.

This is indeed Steele all over again.

 
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