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Some Drastic thoughts on hiring and firing . . .

30,385 Views | 246 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by BUbearinARK
Mothra
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Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


4-5 at least gives some measure of hope. What about 0-12. What will you say then?
DAC
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Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Horrible example
RightRevBear
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Rev. Dr. Elmer Gantry said:


The root of Baylor's problem is the BOR. Dr. Reynold's was right to insulate BU from the ratchet-headed fundies, but made no prvision for a regulated regents board. All that we have is a self appointed & anointed board, which is mostly incestuous at its core. The handful of regents who are calling the shots do not know that they don't know. Being a successful business person & having a boatload of money does not mean that one knows split peas from okra in all situations.
The only problem with Dr. Reynold's plan was that it didn't work. I made a post on Baylorfans that showed the amount of regents who attend fundamentalist SBC churches. It was a large portion of them who attend fundamentalist churches.

RightRevBear
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DAC said:

Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Horrible example
4-5 is a .444 wining percentage. We are more likely to be 0-12 than have this winnng percentage.
RegentCoverup
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RightRevBear said:

Rev. Dr. Elmer Gantry said:


The root of Baylor's problem is the BOR. Dr. Reynold's was right to insulate BU from the ratchet-headed fundies, but made no prvision for a regulated regents board. All that we have is a self appointed & anointed board, which is mostly incestuous at its core. The handful of regents who are calling the shots do not know that they don't know. Being a successful business person & having a boatload of money does not mean that one knows split peas from okra in all situations.
The only problem with Dr. Reynold's plan was that it didn't work. I made a post on Baylorfans that showed the amount of regents who attend fundamentalist SBC churches. It was a large portion of them who attend fundamentalist churches.


there are some kooky fruity people on our board.

That's the WHOLE problem.

aledocrow
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There are differences with Rhule's situation and the Steele era

First, Steele was willing to let the BOR make his decisions for him. He couldn't even chose his own staff. Why any coach would accept a job under those conditions is beyond me. That was an indicator of where we were headed with Steele Rhule has picked his own coaching stafF - and they look like good coaches to me.

Second, Steele came in with a lot of established players with a pipeline of decent recruits from his predecessor. Rhule does not have that luxury. Many many players left (remember Stidham?) All of the he commits for this year except for one de-committed. True, he was able to find a lot of good kids, but not the ones that would have gone to the big schools.

Did anyone think we were going to win games with a team that has no offensive line depth and starting a freshman center?? Did anyone think that all of a sudden we were going to play lights-out defense?? I am hugely disappointed that we have already lost two of the games that had the best chance of winning this year, but I am not altogether surprised about it.

Rhule understands that the cupboard is pretty bare. He knows there is a long road ahead of us. That us why he is investing in so many true freshman playing so early. He wants deep experience in a couple of years and is prepared to lose a few games to gave that. We actually get back to being competitive if he's strategy works.

Is he going to be good coach or a bad coach? I don't know yet and neither does anyone else on this board. I know that it is too early tell. Let's stop being the fair-weathered fans and act like we can support our teams in the bad times as well as the good times. Those boys deserve better than that. Coach Rhule needs the chance to build a progrsm. Nobody is coming to win instantly. Maybe we need to realize that truth.
REvansBU71
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Excellent post, Stranger.

Even without Briles, last year's slapped together staff would be so much better than this crap.
Any Trump
2024

“And if you do-oo.....” - Lt. Hauk
Gust Avrakotos
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Self Made Bear said:

Stranger said:


So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.
.


It will be at least four years before this happens. The Board has not shown one iota of competence in any matter concerning football. Plus, they would have to admit they were wrong, and as we have seen, neither they nor their cronies on this board are ever going to do that.
This is true....he's getting at least 4yrs to completely run this thing into the ground. That's a travesty but that is Baylor's MO.

However, I am hoping that we can get Rhodes fired much, much sooner with pressure from jumbo shrimp.
bobo
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I remember on the old board when I called Rhodes a pos after his hire I was lambasted. Mizzou couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
bobo
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Nor can we
Gust Avrakotos
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bobo said:

I remember on the old board when I called Rhodes a pos after his hire I was lambasted. Mizzou couldn't get rid of him fast enough.
You've been here long enough to know that if you question the mother ship....you are going to get lambasted.

That's the price you pay for independent thought.

I've been dealing with it for years. That is why the flock hates me.
2ndguesser
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Cheaper to fire Rhoades, who is really responsible for this dumpster fire.
PartyBear
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The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Stranger
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PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.

That's pretty much what I pointed out in the OP. Sometimes the people you don't fire cost you the most.
I'm a Bearbacker
Sic'On
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Grizz Air said:

Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Did he go 0-12 with losses to liberty and Texas-burnt-orange-wannabe?
No, John McKay did not go 0 - 12 and neither has CMR. My point is had John Mc Kay not been given a chance we would have missed out on 4 National Championships.

Losing to Liberty and UTSA is certainly embarrassing, there's no sugar-coating that fact, but two games does not a career make. You gotta give him a chance otherwise you'll be facing a very expensive coaching carousel, which you can not afford.

Sic'On
bubbadog
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Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?
Duke blew out a decent Northwestern team. I don't think a blowout next week is a good indicator.
"Free your ass and your mind will follow." -- George Clinton
Sic'On
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PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Oh really? How do you know that? Are you (and most here) such a great evaluators of coaching talent that you're willing to fire him after TWO games and eat a multi-million, multi-year contract?

What happens if the next coach goes 0 - 2, you gonna fire him too and pay off TWO multi-million, multi-year contracts on top of paying for that stadium?

Glad you're not the A.D. too.

Sic'On
whitetrash
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Sic'On said:

Grizz Air said:

Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Did he go 0-12 with losses to liberty and Texas-burnt-orange-wannabe?
No, John McKay did not go 0 - 12 and neither has CMR. My point is had John Mc Kay not been given a chance we would have missed out on 4 National Championships.

Losing to Liberty and UTSA is certainly embarrassing, there's no sugar-coating that fact, but two games does not a career make. You gotta give him a chance otherwise you'll be facing a very expensive coaching carousel, which you can not afford.

Sic'On
Meaningless factoid: McKay lost at home to TCU (7-6) and in Waco to BU (35-14) his first year at USC.
Sic'On
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RightRevBear said:

DAC said:

Sic'On said:

Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?

John McKay went 4 - 5 his first year, 4 - 5 - 1 his second, and people were screaming for his head. The next year, 1962, he went 11 - 0 and won a N.C.

The idea of firing ANY coach after the first two games is absolutely idiotic. You have to give him a chance.

Sic'On


Horrible example
4-5 is a .444 wining percentage. We are more likely to be 0-12 than have this winnng percentage.

Why don't we visit your scenario when it actually happens.

Sic'On
Pale Rider
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Stranger said:

Sic'On said:

I have the utmost respect for your Baylor pedigree, but you'd make for one lousy Athletic Director to suggest firing Rhule after only two games.

He may turn out to be a bad coach as most here seem to believe, but he could end up being a very good coach too. Way-way too early to judge.

Sic'On
Ok. if not two games, how would you feel about canning him after a blow out by Duke?
Excellent op brother, but i fear Rhule will get at least three years to prove to the powers that be what all of us can see in the first two games.
PartyBear
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Keep in mind the new president inherited both the AD and Rhule. She seems to have made some decisions that appeared to be standing up to the BOR thinking. She is also a former P5 student athlete herself. I think she knows the importance of athletics and football specifically. I don't know they get 3 years like you say or not.
cowboycwr
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.


This is a great idea. The university and the athletics are two different parts. We can have a Christian influence and leaning but it can't be the main thing in athletics. If it is we won't be successful.

Split the two. Numerous schools have lowered their Christian emphasis from sports or dropped it all together (not what I'm saying we need to do)
Krieg
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Sic'On said:

PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Oh really? How do you know that? Are you (and most here) such a great evaluators of coaching talent that you're willing to fire him after TWO games and eat a multi-million, multi-year contract?

What happens if the next coach goes 0 - 2, you gonna fire him too and pay off TWO multi-million, multi-year contracts on top of paying for that stadium?

Glad you're not the A.D. too.

Sic'On


Nobody wants him actually fired right now, after 2 games. We want him fired after this season barring some miraculous turnaround.

No good coach can lose either of those games, let alone both. The coaches look like they've never done it before on both sides of the ball. Two games had convinced me he will be a failure. 12 will convince me he's failed, assuming we don't somehow win 4 from here.
PartyBear
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Sic'On said:

PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Oh really? How do you know that? Are you (and most here) such a great evaluators of coaching talent that you're willing to fire him after TWO games and eat a multi-million, multi-year contract?

What happens if the next coach goes 0 - 2, you gonna fire him too and pay off TWO multi-million, multi-year contracts on top of paying for that stadium?

Glad you're not the A.D. too.

Sic'On


Dude Kreig just explained this. But seriously yall fired Lane Kiffin with a 28-15 record because he was 3-2 mid season when you fired him. I guarantee you Southern Cal would be talking like this and probably pull the trigger on a new HC who opened up 0-12 or 2-10 taking over for Pete Carroll.
EasyE
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Promote Joey M. He has a history of bulding up a program in Texas to a championship level like someone else we all know and is getting his feet wet at the collegiate ranks.
JETHRO
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A few critiques.

1. Steele and Beall had no previous head coaching experience. In addition to their poor coaching, their lack of experience was telling. His ability to turn Temple around and successfully lead a staff and win conference championship would encourage those who want to ride this out and give him more time.

2. Our Culture. It's not Rhule's fault that our athletics department can't seem to go very long without publicly humiliating itself. Steele (over his head), Bliss (scumbag), Briles, etc show that we either have a hard time attracting qualified candidates, or we feel the need to compromise our core values to compete. This board, along with the old Baylorfans site served as a venting forum for those who feel those core values need to be changed to produce a winning program. Hugh Freeze, formerly of Ole Miss, demonstrated that a school does not have to be faith-based to expect character from their coaches. Baylor's lack of consensus in terms of administration, alumni, and students make our coaching vacancies death-traps for rising coaches. Case-in-point, Briles. This board will either worship or revile him, depending on their perspective. He has the best win-loss record and where is he coaching right now? He is accountable for his actions, but this demonstrates that we even ruin the careers of our "successful" coaches. Our school has some difficult questions to answer going forward.

Some hard truths.

1. Rhule had to know this was a difficult situation. He needs to be more forthright and less defensive with the media and the alumni. Something like, "that was a terrible idea," "we will adjust to what we do best," or "that was my fault" may need to come out of his mouth in the near future.

2. Rhule is a transplant. Texans don't like transplants. Not sure he can survive this.

Recommendations.

1. I'm not sure what can be done this year. It appears that player attrition and injuries make this a tough situation. Rhule is accountable for banging our guys up to the point our lack of depth is showing. Kinda like Les Miles used to do. STOP THAT. Not sure we can heal in time to turn this around, but we need bodies.

2. There are people on this board much more qualified in the X's and O's department. Insert offensive and defensive suggestions here....

Final Thoughts

It's looking to be a brutal year. If we get increasingly more competitive throughout the season and line up a good recruiting class, he may get to stay. That would demonstrate Rhule exhibits the traits we hired him for and there is hope he can turn it around. If we get blown out all year and our class looks bleak, the original poster's thesis may come true.

Prediction.

He's the guy between the legend and the next guy. He will repair our image and absorb all of the negativity. He may be the guy between Briles and Montgomery. When he leaves, he will probably get another gig at a mid-major. We hire a head coach from SFA, UH, or some other Texas school, assuming Nick Saban (or Phil Montgomery) is not available.
REvansBU71
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It's a bitter pill, but getting blown out by everyone is the best path to quickly get rid of the whole outfit. In this instant media atmosphere, hot-seat coaches rarely recover.
Any Trump
2024

“And if you do-oo.....” - Lt. Hauk
57Bear
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Quoting Kireg:

"Nobody wants him actually fired right now, after 2 games. We want him fired after this season barring some miraculous turnaround.

No good coach can lose either of those games, let alone both. The coaches look like they've never done it before on both sides of the ball. Two games had convinced me he will be a failure. 12 will convince me he's failed, assuming we don't somehow win 4 from here."


OTH if recruiting for next year needs to start around the end of the season, it would be nice to have next years coach on board.

Firing Rhodes soon would allow a new AD to be brought in to start the search for a new football coach. OTH who wants to go to work with Baylor's BOR?
BearKamp
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REvansBU71 said:

It's a bitter pill, but getting blown out by everyone is the best path to quickly get rid of the whole outfit. In this instant media atmosphere, hot-seat coaches rarely recover.

Well, at this rate we have already played the cupcakes....so I'd say that plan looks really easy rite bout now.
Malbec
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PartyBear said:

Keep in mind the new president inherited both the AD and Rhule. She seems to have made some decisions that appeared to be standing up to the BOR thinking. She is also a former P5 student athlete herself. I think she knows the importance of athletics and football specifically. I don't know they get 3 years like you say or not.
It sure didn't take long for UTSA's new prez to fire up the Swifter.
CutTheTVoff
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OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right?


Who hired Rhoades?
BikerBear
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Krieg said:

Great post Stranger. He needs to go, and yesterday. He's going to lose the next recruiting class and will never be able to recover at that point. We need to hire someone that can win with someone else's players. This guy can't get out of his own way to do that, so he needs to get out of our way.

Also, as donors and season ticket holders, as much as I hate to say it we owe the team, students, Waco, and other alumni to not only call for it to happen, but to make it clear we won't financially support bad leadership. If they bring him back next year and have 25k people in the stadium, they'll have to fire him. That's the only real leverage we have.
We won't have 25K in the stands by the middle of this season. Hell, I am a 50 year fan and I am not even gonna watch them on TV from here on out. This is just too painful.
57Bear
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CutTheTVoff said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right?


Who hired Rhoades?
"Baylor University is very pleased to welcome Mack Rhoades as Baylor University's Vice President and Director of Athletics," interim president David Garland said Wednesday in a statement. "He is a charismatic leader who pays careful attention to details and cultivates solidarity among the coaches and staff. He intends to build champions on the field and on the court and to mold student-athletes into champions in their lives after sports. Most importantly, he is committed to and excited by Baylor's Christian mission and vision."
http://www.espn.com/college-sports/story/_/id/17053119/baylor-bears-hire-missouri-tigers-ad-mack-rhoades-same-position

Sic'On
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PartyBear said:

Sic'On said:

PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Oh really? How do you know that? Are you (and most here) such a great evaluators of coaching talent that you're willing to fire him after TWO games and eat a multi-million, multi-year contract?

What happens if the next coach goes 0 - 2, you gonna fire him too and pay off TWO multi-million, multi-year contracts on top of paying for that stadium?

Glad you're not the A.D. too.

Sic'On


Dude Kreig just explained this. But seriously yall fired Lane Kiffin with a 28-15 record because he was 3-2 mid season when you fired him. I guarantee you Southern Cal would be talking like this and probably pull the trigger on a new HC who opened up 0-12 or 2-10 taking over for Pete Carroll.

Lane Kiffin was fired after 43 games, NOT 2, and it was the totality of his body of work.

And, yes, if a new USC coach went 0 - 2 to schools like Liberty and UTSA there would be Trojans calling for the new coach's head - but they'd be stupid too. You do not pay off fired coaches with Monopoly money, and that's something we know about.

Matt Rhule needs a chance.

Sic'On
Sic'On
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Sic'On said:

PartyBear said:

Sic'On said:

PartyBear said:

The cost of keeping Rhule at this point in the long term is greater than the cost of firing him even after just one year.
Oh really? How do you know that? Are you (and most here) such a great evaluators of coaching talent that you're willing to fire him after TWO games and eat a multi-million, multi-year contract?

What happens if the next coach goes 0 - 2, you gonna fire him too and pay off TWO multi-million, multi-year contracts on top of paying for that stadium?

Glad you're not the A.D. too.

Sic'On


Dude Kreig just explained this. But seriously yall fired Lane Kiffin with a 28-15 record because he was 3-2 mid season when you fired him. I guarantee you Southern Cal would be talking like this and probably pull the trigger on a new HC who opened up 0-12 or 2-10 taking over for Pete Carroll.

Lane Kiffin was fired after 43 games, NOT 2, and it was the totality of his body of work.

And, yes, if a new USC coach went 0 - 2 to schools like Liberty and UTSA there would be Trojans calling for the new coach's head - but they'd be stupid too. You do not pay off fired coaches with Monopoly money, and that's something we know about.

Matt Rhule needs a chance.

Sic'On

Oh, and BTW, that IDIOT Lane Kiffin cost us a N.C. against Texas by having Reggie Bush on the sideline on that infamous 4th and 1 call. Had we made it - game over, we win. But NOOOO.

Sic'On
 
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