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Some Drastic thoughts on hiring and firing . . .

30,350 Views | 246 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by BUbearinARK
cowboycwr
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Amarillobear said:

I enjoy reading what people have to say on this site and I generally just try to stay positive about the other posters when I post but I disagree with your post about firing him already. We need to support the program and realize the coaches Coach their hearts out on the field but this is a young team making mistakes that the coaches will soon correct. I see nothing but bright spots when I watch this team and see a lot of young players that will make us proud when they figure it all out. The offensive line is still in a state of flux and it needs to gel some. I think the future is very bright. Hang in there.


Sic 'me Bears!
Wow.

I don't think I have ever seen so much sunshine pumping in my life.

No we don't need to blindly support a program just because. I supported the program but this is my money I spend on tickets. If I do not like the result I WILL NOT sit by and let the program steal my money with the bad product put on the field.


And I would really love to know what game you are watching. Because many of the mistakes being made are not by the young players but are rather issues with the coaching, play call, schemes, etc.

The switching of QBs- coaching

Running the ball on a 3rd and long- coaching.

not going with tempo on offense when down- coaching.

calling the totally wrong defensive alignment- coaching

Bad offensive play calling- coaching

There are many, many others that I could list here but I think you get the point.

The things like dropping passes, missed tackles, etc would be on the players but the above is way more of a bigger issue during the game with a larger impact on the outcome.
Oldbear83
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OldSchoolBU said:

he will have 4-5 years to get the job done. End of story. Delude yourselves with whatever nonsense you want to in the interim but he will have that time frame. He needs to be winning championships by the end of that time frame.

Your comparisons to Steele and Beall hold no weight other than they all have an l in their last name (so did Briles). Rhule has a track record of winning championships in the top G5 conference similar to guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban before they took power 5 jobs.

Football is entertainment. Enjoy watching this work of beauty that will be carved out of a very ugly piece of marble that looks ugliest when the first chisel strikes it.
Rhule lost to Liberty his first year.

At home.

With players good enough to win at least 4 games last year.

Now, Rhule is - three games into the season - still unable to pick a starting quarterback, when he knows full well you can't use a 2-quarterback system and win. Rhule is still unable to create an effective HUNH offense, and unable to adjust to game conditions.

Rhule is simply not good enough to win at a P5 school. he can - with difficulty - beat weaker opponents, but is absolutely out of his depth against the big leaguers. Rhule got schooled as a coach against OU, West Virginia, Texas, TCU ... and he is about to get whacked by Kansas in his own house.

That is the irrefutable fact, and denying is only going to make the coming losses harder to take.


The BOR is killing Baylor Football, and they don't give a rat's rear end what the Alumni and fans think about that.
Redbrickbear
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I'm more dejected than most.

I mean sure we can fire Rhule.

But the same people that hired him are still here, the same people that hired Steele, the same people that have failed us over and over and over again over the past 25 years.

Yet they actually one time hired a coach that could win (Briles) but they couldn't manage the success or him....and they had their BS in house cops chasing frat kids drinking on 3rd st. instead of focusing on real issues like Rape.

And when the girls did report it.....the Regent regime didnt give them more than 3 free counseling sessions and never passed the info on the the real police or did anything about it.

They then ran one of the worst and most expensive PR campaigns ever.

No reason to think the people in charge of Baylor wont hire another worthless coach for $4-$5 million a year.
cowboycwr
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Oldbear83 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

he will have 4-5 years to get the job done. End of story. Delude yourselves with whatever nonsense you want to in the interim but he will have that time frame. He needs to be winning championships by the end of that time frame.

Your comparisons to Steele and Beall hold no weight other than they all have an l in their last name (so did Briles). Rhule has a track record of winning championships in the top G5 conference similar to guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban before they took power 5 jobs.

Football is entertainment. Enjoy watching this work of beauty that will be carved out of a very ugly piece of marble that looks ugliest when the first chisel strikes it.
Rhule lost to Liberty his first year.

At home.

With players good enough to win at least 4 games last year.

Now, Rhule is - three games into the season - still unable to pick a starting quarterback, when he knows full well you can't use a 2-quarterback system and win. Rhule is still unable to create an effective HUNH offense, and unable to adjust to game conditions.

Rhule is simply not good enough to win at a P5 school. he can - with difficulty - beat weaker opponents, but is absolutely out of his depth against the big leaguers. Rhule got schooled as a coach against OU, West Virginia, Texas, TCU ... and he is about to get whacked by Kansas in his own house.

That is the irrefutable fact, and denying is only going to make the coming losses harder to take.


The BOR is killing Baylor Football, and they don't give a rat's rear end what the Alumni and fans think about that.

A two QB system only works if you have a great team and the QBs you are using are great system QBs like when Florida did it with Tebow and that other guy.

Or when Nebraska did it in the late 90s or early 2000s
Redbrickbear
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cowboycwr said:





A two QB system only works if you have a great team and the QBs you are using are great system QBs like when Florida did it with Tebow and that other guy.

Or when Nebraska did it in the late 90s or early 2000s
So Rhule is playing around with late 1990s and early 2000s type football ideas.......awesome.

This guy listen to Destiny's Child and Third Eye Blind on his playlist?
Pecos 45
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cowboycwr said:

Oldbear83 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

he will have 4-5 years to get the job done. End of story. Delude yourselves with whatever nonsense you want to in the interim but he will have that time frame. He needs to be winning championships by the end of that time frame.

Your comparisons to Steele and Beall hold no weight other than they all have an l in their last name (so did Briles). Rhule has a track record of winning championships in the top G5 conference similar to guys like Urban Meyer and Nick Saban before they took power 5 jobs.

Football is entertainment. Enjoy watching this work of beauty that will be carved out of a very ugly piece of marble that looks ugliest when the first chisel strikes it.
Rhule lost to Liberty his first year.

At home.

With players good enough to win at least 4 games last year.

Now, Rhule is - three games into the season - still unable to pick a starting quarterback, when he knows full well you can't use a 2-quarterback system and win. Rhule is still unable to create an effective HUNH offense, and unable to adjust to game conditions.

Rhule is simply not good enough to win at a P5 school. he can - with difficulty - beat weaker opponents, but is absolutely out of his depth against the big leaguers. Rhule got schooled as a coach against OU, West Virginia, Texas, TCU ... and he is about to get whacked by Kansas in his own house.

That is the irrefutable fact, and denying is only going to make the coming losses harder to take.


The BOR is killing Baylor Football, and they don't give a rat's rear end what the Alumni and fans think about that.

A two QB system only works if you have a great team and the QBs you are using are great system QBs like when Florida did it with Tebow and that other guy.

Or when Nebraska did it in the late 90s or early 2000s
Or when Grant Teaff did it with Cody Carlson and Tom Muecke (sic)
Pale Rider
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Pecos 45 said:

Pale Rider said:

If he isn't winning in 2019, then he will be gone before 2020.
That means I have to wait a whole other year again.
This is getting so old and I'm not getting any younger.
Dude, I share your pain.
Graduated in '74 and suffered through Beall AND Steele.

How long, oh, Lord, how long?
Yep. Class of 73.
Thanks for the mutual misery.
OldSchoolBU
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

la1037 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.


The irony is so thick on this post it's staggering.
Paging Old School BU....we just lost to DUKE!
I'm as pissed as anyone that we peed down our leg Saturday. It still doesn't change the fact that Matt Rhule was 100% Mack Rhoades hire. The board of regents had nothing to do with it. Do I think he's a great fit for Baylor? Jury is out. Do I think he should be given until the end of 2019 for sure? Yes. If they don't go to a bowl next year and I'm still not losing hope for this year, then you have to cut your losses in my opinion.

This is not a really difficult job. You are in Texas with some of the best facilities in the country and near top notch talent. And your 3 non conference games next year are easy. So you better be 3-0 in those. So all you are really asking is to win 3 conference games. Not some herculean task. If he doesn't do that next year, I'm 100% in favor of finding the next guy.

You are paying top 15 money with top 15 budgets. Is it crazy to expect top 30 results? No it is not.

That being said, let's turn this thing around. It is much better for Baylor for Matt Rhule to leave to the NFL with Baylor in great shape or for him to have so much fun winning here that he wants to stay longer.
The past is last! Be a champion today!
bunation
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Redbrickbear said:

I'm more dejected than most.

I mean sure we can fire Rhule.

But the same people that hired him are still here, the same people that hired Steele, the same people that have failed us over and over and over again over the past 25 years.

Yet they actually one time hired a coach that could win (Briles) but they couldn't manage the success or him....and they had their BS in house cops chasing frat kids drinking on 3rd st. instead of focusing on real issues like Rape.

And when the girls did report it.....the Regent regime didnt give them more than 3 free counseling sessions and never passed the info on the the real police or did anything about it.

They then ran one of the worst and most expensive PR campaigns ever.

No reason to think the people in charge of Baylor wont hire another worthless coach for $4-$5 million a year.


No one can prevent a sexual assault victim from pushing "911." Should we fire the sociology teacher whose student rapes another?

So sick of these lies. (You're not a BOR member??)

Briles received $15 MILLION. The school wrote s letter exonerating him. His coaches, players and AD have, as well.

It was a university president and board failing.

Just ask MSU's coach.

We scapegoated a good man. A father of two daughter who adore him. He's never had a single "incident" in his coaching career elsewhere or in his personal life.

Stick to the subject. Rhule & his staff are our coaches. They're 3-12, with mediocre wins against ASU, utsa, and basketball powerhouse KU, with losses to Liberty (which lost last year to teams like St Francis & Kennesaw St!), utsa, and 9 of 10 conference games.

Questionable game plans, player missed assignments, clock management, qb shuffling and a sense of lostness by the players and staff are what you should be addressing..............
57Bear
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Pale Rider said:

Pecos 45 said:

Pale Rider said:

If he isn't winning in 2019, then he will be gone before 2020.
That means I have to wait a whole other year again.
This is getting so old and I'm not getting any younger.
Dude, I share your pain.
Graduated in '74 and suffered through Beall AND Steele.

How long, oh, Lord, how long?
Yep. Class of 73.
Thanks for the mutual misery.
Class of 57. Had to sit through Sam Boyd's first year! But he did have a 9-2 record his first year including a win over #2 Tennessee in the Sugar Bowl. [And a 3-6-1 record in his second!]
ABC BEAR
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Pecos 45 said:

Pale Rider said:

If he isn't winning in 2019, then he will be gone before 2020.
That means I have to wait a whole other year again.
This is getting so old and I'm not getting any younger.
Dude, I share your pain.
Graduated in '74 and suffered through Beall AND Steele.

How long, oh, Lord, how long?
After years of wandering aimlessly we were allowed to taste the fruit of the promised land. Of the group, only two were convinced we belonged while the others thought the enemy was too strong to conquer since we are not an institution of football. Upon seeing this, the Lord banished BU to more aimless wandering in the football wastelands as a means of purging the Neanderthals from the group.

This is our last chance to get it right or else we will be sifted and fed to Incarnate Word.
RegentCoverup
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OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

la1037 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.


The irony is so thick on this post it's staggering.
Paging Old School BU....we just lost to DUKE!
I'm as pissed as anyone that we peed down our leg Saturday. It still doesn't change the fact that Matt Rhule was 100% Mack Rhoades hire. The board of regents had nothing to do with it. Do I think he's a great fit for Baylor? Jury is out. Do I think he should be given until the end of 2019 for sure? Yes. If they don't go to a bowl next year and I'm still not losing hope for this year, then you have to cut your losses in my opinion.

This is not a really difficult job. You are in Texas with some of the best facilities in the country and near top notch talent. And your 3 non conference games next year are easy. So you better be 3-0 in those. So all you are really asking is to win 3 conference games. Not some herculean task. If he doesn't do that next year, I'm 100% in favor of finding the next guy.

You are paying top 15 money with top 15 budgets. Is it crazy to expect top 30 results? No it is not.

That being said, let's turn this thing around. It is much better for Baylor for Matt Rhule to leave to the NFL with Baylor in great shape or for him to have so much fun winning here that he wants to stay longer.
I don't necessarily disagree with your points, but you should know there are regents that think it's their task to meddle in the football program.

it's how this whole coaching change went down.
TheAgentGrant
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TellMeYouLoveMe said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

la1037 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.


The irony is so thick on this post it's staggering.
Paging Old School BU....we just lost to DUKE!
I'm as pissed as anyone that we peed down our leg Saturday. It still doesn't change the fact that Matt Rhule was 100% Mack Rhoades hire. The board of regents had nothing to do with it. Do I think he's a great fit for Baylor? Jury is out. Do I think he should be given until the end of 2019 for sure? Yes. If they don't go to a bowl next year and I'm still not losing hope for this year, then you have to cut your losses in my opinion.

This is not a really difficult job. You are in Texas with some of the best facilities in the country and near top notch talent. And your 3 non conference games next year are easy. So you better be 3-0 in those. So all you are really asking is to win 3 conference games. Not some herculean task. If he doesn't do that next year, I'm 100% in favor of finding the next guy.

You are paying top 15 money with top 15 budgets. Is it crazy to expect top 30 results? No it is not.

That being said, let's turn this thing around. It is much better for Baylor for Matt Rhule to leave to the NFL with Baylor in great shape or for him to have so much fun winning here that he wants to stay longer.
I don't necessarily disagree with your points, but you should know there are regents that think it's their task to meddle in the football program.

it's how this whole coaching change went down.

Ridiculous.
AgentGrant
MidWestBear2010
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OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

la1037 said:

OldSchoolBU said:

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

We don't have a personnel problem, we have a leadership.

Fire this guy and then what? Let the same boobs that got us into this play another round of hire by committee?

No thanks.

We need to build a separate board of regents for sports and let them manage the program and strip it away from the remaining regents.

The idea that football decisions are made by the amateurs on the Baylor Board is the entire problem.
please tell me you don't really believe this? I feel my IQ dropping by reading posts like this. You do realize Mack Rhoades is 100% responsible for this hire right? Board of regents had zero influence on this hire. If Rhule fails (he won't), Mack is going down with the ship.

We need more intelligence on this football board.


The irony is so thick on this post it's staggering.
Paging Old School BU....we just lost to DUKE!
I'm as pissed as anyone that we peed down our leg Saturday. It still doesn't change the fact that Matt Rhule was 100% Mack Rhoades hire. The board of regents had nothing to do with it. Do I think he's a great fit for Baylor? Jury is out. Do I think he should be given until the end of 2019 for sure? Yes. If they don't go to a bowl next year and I'm still not losing hope for this year, then you have to cut your losses in my opinion.

This is not a really difficult job. You are in Texas with some of the best facilities in the country and near top notch talent. And your 3 non conference games next year are easy. So you better be 3-0 in those. So all you are really asking is to win 3 conference games. Not some herculean task. If he doesn't do that next year, I'm 100% in favor of finding the next guy.

You are paying top 15 money with top 15 budgets. Is it crazy to expect top 30 results? No it is not.

That being said, let's turn this thing around. It is much better for Baylor for Matt Rhule to leave to the NFL with Baylor in great shape or for him to have so much fun winning here that he wants to stay longer.
The BOR hired Rhoades, so they have everything to do with it. The jury is not out, Rhule is not a good fit, his performance has already showed that. Does the world move in slow motion for you? Can you imagine any other business working like the way you think? "Well this guy isn't performing well at all his first two years at our company but he is a good guy so we'll give him another year." That company would go out of business. Right now we are looking at being stuck in a small conference with Liberty in just a few years. That is the direction we are heading unless something changes immediately. It is much better for Baylor to fire Rhule now and get a good coach before it is too late. The clock is ticking.
bunation
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Unfortunately, with our BOR, a coach with Rhule's resume WAS the best we could hope to hire. That hasn't changed.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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Stranger said:

That's what needs to happen toot-sweet.
Please don't tell me you got a degree from Baylor.
EvilTroyAndAbed
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bunation said:

Unfortunately, with our BOR, a coach with Rhule's resume WAS the best we could hope to hire. That hasn't changed.
Timbear
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Any school willing to pay $M's will have a list of potential coaches. Rhoades promised to hire a coach that would keep our Baylor offensive brand, and he lied.
Forest Bueller
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Like it or not, Rhule will get this year 2018 and then 2019 and 2020 to prove himself.

After that if a 7 or 8 win season hasn't been achieved it's time to part ways.
Oldbear83
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Forest Bueller said:

Like it or not, Rhule will get this year 2018 and then 2019 and 2020 to prove himself.

After that if a 7 or 8 win season hasn't been achieved it's time to part ways.
We're going to lose a lot of games, and hear tons of excuses how it's somehow important to 'give Rhule enough time'.

Rhule's best win so far is Kansas last year, and now we're wondering if we will lose at home to Kansas.

That's not what you get with a competent head coach.

Not to be cruel, but the longer we keep Rhule, the more damage he will do.

It's time to make clear to Rhule to win or leave. No more excuses, no more patience.

He burned his 'honeymoon' when he lost to Liberty, now it's time to prove he isn't a fraud.
57Bear
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Why would he leave? Doesn't he have a multi-year contract at $4M or $4.4M per year with a big buyout.
BearKamp
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If being down 23-0 at half to Duke doesn't wake some people up, nothing will. Rhule is simply in over his head and he hasn't even started conference yet. His best chance to win is now sadly next week against KU. Come real conference...it's gonna be ugly. These idiots at the top making decisions better take note as our fans are already not showing up and emptying the stadium before half.
Fire Bear
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That is a remarkable post, I could not possibly agree more!
"HE DIDN'T GET IN!! HE DIDN'T GET IN"
- J.J. Joe December 4th 2021

Career Firefighter since 1997
Rabid Fan of Baylor Football since birth
BEXAR
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Stranger was and is correct as far as he goes. Most people on this site go along with the thought that Briles was at fault. We should clean house, rehire a Briles, and circle the wagons to defend Baylor.

My background is similar to Stranger's. I have missed very few games since 1950, 68 years ago? As I sat in the stadium that Briles built Saturday, for the first half, I reflected on the name on the stadium and the name on the scoreboard. I cannot believe these two major donors would oppose bringing Briles back. My pockets are not as deep as many, but I would donate $100,000 toward cleaning house and bringing back a Briles. I was the first in my family to attend Baylor but I now have three grandkids, with more on the way, at Baylor. I am so disappointed in how what I started has turned out. It is never to late to "do the right thing".
Stranger
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Stranger said:

Many of you are acquainted with me and know that I have been personally attending Baylor football games, non-stop for over 62 years. I've served on college and public school boards and had to hire and fire coaches, superintendents, college presidents and untold school teachers. In addition, for over 15 years i had 70 plus employees at any given time.

I owned Baylor football tickets in all sports for many years and have contributed well over six figures to Baylor Athletics

That doesn't mean I'm smart, but I have plenty of experience. I've seen this sort of train wreck before. I was told this by a smart man many years ago and truth and experience bear out this statement:

"It's not the employees you fire that cost you the most money. It's the ones you DON'T fire."

That addage has been proven true to me many, many times. It's really hard sometime to let go of a guy that you just knew would work out, especially if you have a lot of money invested in him. If you've stuck your neck out on a hiring decision it's hard to back down. Nobody likes to be proven dead-ass wrong.

Matt Rhule may be a good Christian man, a great family man, a man of character and a hale fellow well met. But a good fit as a football coach for the Baylor Bears, he is not.

Baylor has a bad habit of hiring guys like that.

Bill Beall and Kevin Steele were two of those guys that fit that profile. In both cases the Board of Regents made those hires because they fit the Baylor image. They passed over some coaches that would have probably won them more ball games. I know of one of those "pass-overs" that won a national championship at another university.

Kevin Steele was hired because a couple of those all-knowing Regents were impressed by his bs that he attended Sunday School and Church every Sunday, even during football season. Another applicant was asked by the BOR if he was a church-goer if he attended faithfully. He answered that he did, but not during football season. An honest answer was apparently not what they wanted. The only thing that mattered was the color of his prayer cloth.

It is my fear that the BOR acted unwisely with Rhule (:and Rhoads for that matter) because they were more interested in repairing their image (which they iniated) that to hire a real candidate.

Losers like Beall and Steele have a look and a manner about them. Steele choked his first two games at Baylor and the remarks that followed both losses were telling. I was sitting in a skybox as a guest of a letterman/donor at the UNLV debacle. It was the first game for the skyboxes and spirits were high for the new regime. Like everyone else we cringed at what we saw on the field.

Steele had invited us to the press conference after the game and what we saw made us sick. Instead of owning up to his mistake Steele slimed around some excuse that he was trying to teach his players to win. His inability to look anyone in the eye and his preaching of that goody two shoes theology during the press conference assured us he was in over his head and didn't have a clue about what to do to turn us around. We suffered even worse as his tenure wore on. I hate to admit it, but after the 70-22 blood letting at Cal, I bet $50 a game on Baylor's opponent and gave the points on all of the Bears remaining games that season. And I won $500 bucks. Baylor never covered.

Sadly, after that game, Baylor gave Steele a one year extension. Talk about throwing good money after bad.

So . . . down to Rhule (and Rhodes).

Rhule has that look and manner about him. My mind flashed back to that first Steele press conference. He even wears Steele's five o clock shadow. Close your eyes and you think Steele is speaking.

He has no answers. He has that same smug look and preaches those same platitudes while refusing to look anybody in the eye. He brought slow, stodgy old up-east, Big X football into Texas and has refused to try what has actually worked here in recent years. Instead of embracing success he has decided to shove his will upon this team. I realize there are injuries,but this guy is offering no solutions.

You all know what Steele did to Baylor's program. For you young pups (I was a student then) Beall went winless his first year, won one game his second year and won a whopping two his third year, none of them conference games. In his defense, Beall just never knew what to do. Lord, do we wish we only had a three year deal on Rhule?

So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.

That's what needs to happen toot-sweet. Baylor will not win another game this year under this good Christian man. If they do, it will be celebrated as a moral victory so that Rhule can live to fight another day and draw another $4 million paycheck.

Pay the guy off. So what if it costs $14 million. They've given more than that to women crying rape. (some were legitimate, for sure). The BOR will soon have payments on a stadium they can't afford when the fans and donors decide to leave and sit on their wallets.

As I mentioned earlier, they cannot afford NOT to fire him.! The time is now not later.


So how does this happen folks? What do we do to get Livingstone and her BOR to act?
I'm a Bearbacker
NoBSU
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Stranger said:

Stranger said:

Many of you are acquainted with me and know that I have been personally attending Baylor football games, non-stop for over 62 years. I've served on college and public school boards and had to hire and fire coaches, superintendents, college presidents and untold school teachers. In addition, for over 15 years i had 70 plus employees at any given time.

I owned Baylor football tickets in all sports for many years and have contributed well over six figures to Baylor Athletics

That doesn't mean I'm smart, but I have plenty of experience. I've seen this sort of train wreck before. I was told this by a smart man many years ago and truth and experience bear out this statement:

"It's not the employees you fire that cost you the most money. It's the ones you DON'T fire."

That addage has been proven true to me many, many times. It's really hard sometime to let go of a guy that you just knew would work out, especially if you have a lot of money invested in him. If you've stuck your neck out on a hiring decision it's hard to back down. Nobody likes to be proven dead-ass wrong.

Matt Rhule may be a good Christian man, a great family man, a man of character and a hale fellow well met. But a good fit as a football coach for the Baylor Bears, he is not.

Baylor has a bad habit of hiring guys like that.

Bill Beall and Kevin Steele were two of those guys that fit that profile. In both cases the Board of Regents made those hires because they fit the Baylor image. They passed over some coaches that would have probably won them more ball games. I know of one of those "pass-overs" that won a national championship at another university.

Kevin Steele was hired because a couple of those all-knowing Regents were impressed by his bs that he attended Sunday School and Church every Sunday, even during football season. Another applicant was asked by the BOR if he was a church-goer if he attended faithfully. He answered that he did, but not during football season. An honest answer was apparently not what they wanted. The only thing that mattered was the color of his prayer cloth.

It is my fear that the BOR acted unwisely with Rhule (:and Rhoads for that matter) because they were more interested in repairing their image (which they iniated) that to hire a real candidate.

Losers like Beall and Steele have a look and a manner about them. Steele choked his first two games at Baylor and the remarks that followed both losses were telling. I was sitting in a skybox as a guest of a letterman/donor at the UNLV debacle. It was the first game for the skyboxes and spirits were high for the new regime. Like everyone else we cringed at what we saw on the field.

Steele had invited us to the press conference after the game and what we saw made us sick. Instead of owning up to his mistake Steele slimed around some excuse that he was trying to teach his players to win. His inability to look anyone in the eye and his preaching of that goody two shoes theology during the press conference assured us he was in over his head and didn't have a clue about what to do to turn us around. We suffered even worse as his tenure wore on. I hate to admit it, but after the 70-22 blood letting at Cal, I bet $50 a game on Baylor's opponent and gave the points on all of the Bears remaining games that season. And I won $500 bucks. Baylor never covered.

Sadly, after that game, Baylor gave Steele a one year extension. Talk about throwing good money after bad.

So . . . down to Rhule (and Rhodes).

Rhule has that look and manner about him. My mind flashed back to that first Steele press conference. He even wears Steele's five o clock shadow. Close your eyes and you think Steele is speaking.

He has no answers. He has that same smug look and preaches those same platitudes while refusing to look anybody in the eye. He brought slow, stodgy old up-east, Big X football into Texas and has refused to try what has actually worked here in recent years. Instead of embracing success he has decided to shove his will upon this team. I realize there are injuries,but this guy is offering no solutions.

You all know what Steele did to Baylor's program. For you young pups (I was a student then) Beall went winless his first year, won one game his second year and won a whopping two his third year, none of them conference games. In his defense, Beall just never knew what to do. Lord, do we wish we only had a three year deal on Rhule?

So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.

That's what needs to happen toot-sweet. Baylor will not win another game this year under this good Christian man. If they do, it will be celebrated as a moral victory so that Rhule can live to fight another day and draw another $4 million paycheck.

Pay the guy off. So what if it costs $14 million. They've given more than that to women crying rape. (some were legitimate, for sure). The BOR will soon have payments on a stadium they can't afford when the fans and donors decide to leave and sit on their wallets.

As I mentioned earlier, they cannot afford NOT to fire him.! The time is now not later.


So how does this happen folks? What do we do to get Livingstone and her BOR to act?
We need to demand a safe place on campus for true Baylor football fans. Once we have a dozen people, then we can set up an anarcho-syndicalist commune. We can all take turns acting as an executive officer for the day.
Pale Rider
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Time to stop. Beat Kansas or bust!
drahthaar
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Short of going 0-fer and getting blown out and playing poorly like the Duke first half, nothing changes. Even then, the Men Behind The Curtain will try to hold fast.

One key will be attendance, especially the Line....they really stand out in gold/yellow and losing a chunk of the optic will speak loudly. But that's optics.

A second key will be reseating and the $$$ response to that. A wise AD would suspend that until this staff turns out a bowl team that is playing well. Barring a wise AD, a wise Prez or even a wise Regent prez would advise, and pressure if need be, a delay in reseatind. That's just smart business. But I understand from people in Waco that the AD isn't a good businessman from a fiscal standpoint.

Regardless of any key, it's gonna take a wealthy donor(s) to step up and buy this thing out or off. Several I have talked with might be willing to do this but they will demand some big influence in the short-term football business decisions going forward. Might not be a bad thing and would definitely be good for a couple of these people to have that influence.

Don't see any of this happening. Likely we'll grind on until, after year 4, if we're playing for 4-5 win seasons, the pressure will be too great to not make a move and we'll begin again the mining operations to dig out of a deeper hole. This threatens the academic side for funding, as the hard debt has to be repaid, and the Regents' response will of necessity raise tuition, room and board.

The AD and everyone else will get the woodshed education in how important this program is and how much influence it holds for the future of the university.
Stranger
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Pale Rider said:

Time to stop. Beat Kansas or bust!

So what happens if Matty busts?
I'm a Bearbacker
Pale Rider
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Stranger said:

Pale Rider said:

Time to stop. Beat Kansas or bust!

So what happens if Matty busts?

Doldrums and depression for the next two years and then we start all over again for the gazillion times.
CorsicanaBear
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Quote:

after year 4, if we're playing for 4-5 win seasons
Based on what we've seen so far, that is the best we can hope for in a Rhule year 4.
Illigitimus non carborundum
BaylorRocks
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witchmo said:

Short of going 0-fer and getting blown out and playing poorly like the Duke first half, nothing changes. Even then, the Men Behind The Curtain will try to hold fast.

One key will be attendance, especially the Line....they really stand out in gold/yellow and losing a chunk of the optic will speak loudly. But that's optics.

A second key will be reseating and the $$$ response to that. A wise AD would suspend that until this staff turns out a bowl team that is playing well. Barring a wise AD, a wise Prez or even a wise Regent prez would advise, and pressure if need be, a delay in reseatind. That's just smart business. But I understand from people in Waco that the AD isn't a good businessman from a fiscal standpoint.

Regardless of any key, it's gonna take a wealthy donor(s) to step up and buy this thing out or off. Several I have talked with might be willing to do this but they will demand some big influence in the short-term football business decisions going forward. Might not be a bad thing and would definitely be good for a couple of these people to have that influence.

Don't see any of this happening. Likely we'll grind on until, after year 4, if we're playing for 4-5 win seasons, the pressure will be too great to not make a move and we'll begin again the mining operations to dig out of a deeper hole. This threatens the academic side for funding, as the hard debt has to be repaid, and the Regents' response will of necessity raise tuition, room and board.

The AD and everyone else will get the woodshed education in how important this program is and how much influence it holds for the future of the university.
Three things:

1. ".....might be willing to do this but they will demand some big influence in the short-term football business decisions going forward. Might not be a bad thing and would definitely be good for a couple of these people to have that influence."
This would be the absolute WORST thing for Baylor's football/athletics program(s).

2. "This threatens the academic side for funding, as the hard debt has to be repaid, and the Regents' response will of necessity raise tuition, room and board."
Many do not understand how D-I football programs are funded, structured, or run. As with others on this site
that have done so, pulling educational tuition into football program dialog is a reckless statement at best.

3. "The AD and everyone else will get the woodshed education in how important this program is and how much influence it holds for the future of the university."
Laughable. Only 3 years of high-level football program success, in the last 6, has no impact on the viability of
a 173 year old university.
drahthaar
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zunooreo said:

witchmo said:

Short of going 0-fer and getting blown out and playing poorly like the Duke first half, nothing changes. Even then, the Men Behind The Curtain will try to hold fast.

One key will be attendance, especially the Line....they really stand out in gold/yellow and losing a chunk of the optic will speak loudly. But that's optics.

A second key will be reseating and the $$$ response to that. A wise AD would suspend that until this staff turns out a bowl team that is playing well. Barring a wise AD, a wise Prez or even a wise Regent prez would advise, and pressure if need be, a delay in reseatind. That's just smart business. But I understand from people in Waco that the AD isn't a good businessman from a fiscal standpoint.

Regardless of any key, it's gonna take a wealthy donor(s) to step up and buy this thing out or off. Several I have talked with might be willing to do this but they will demand some big influence in the short-term football business decisions going forward. Might not be a bad thing and would definitely be good for a couple of these people to have that influence.

Don't see any of this happening. Likely we'll grind on until, after year 4, if we're playing for 4-5 win seasons, the pressure will be too great to not make a move and we'll begin again the mining operations to dig out of a deeper hole. This threatens the academic side for funding, as the hard debt has to be repaid, and the Regents' response will of necessity raise tuition, room and board.

The AD and everyone else will get the woodshed education in how important this program is and how much influence it holds for the future of the university.
Three things:

1. ".....might be willing to do this but they will demand some big influence in the short-term football business decisions going forward. Might not be a bad thing and would definitely be good for a couple of these people to have that influence."
This would be the absolute WORST thing for Baylor's football/athletics program(s).

2. "This threatens the academic side for funding, as the hard debt has to be repaid, and the Regents' response will of necessity raise tuition, room and board."
Many do not understand how D-I football programs are funded, structured, or run. As with others on this site
that have done so, pulling educational tuition into football program dialog is a reckless statement at best.

3. "The AD and everyone else will get the woodshed education in how important this program is and how much influence it holds for the future of the university."
Laughable. Only 3 years of high-level football program success, in the last 6, has no impact on the viability of
a 173 year old university.



Outside influence: you're correct if you mean people outside the university are calling shots and making decisions. I'd oppose this with every breath. OTOH, having some wise counsel from outside would benefit this program IMO, not as decision makers but as advisors. I've talked wit 2 who could be great help but do NOT want positions of power.

When the debt burden exceeds income from operations or donstions, where does the payout funding arise? If you think debt doesn't affect the university at everything level, you need to re-examine BU's balance sheet. Given enough time, debt burden can affect the viability of the university.
bubbadog
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Stranger said:

Many of you are acquainted with me and know that I have been personally attending Baylor football games, non-stop for over 62 years. I've served on college and public school boards and had to hire and fire coaches, superintendents, college presidents and untold school teachers. In addition, for over 15 years i had 70 plus employees at any given time.

I owned Baylor football tickets in all sports for many years and have contributed well over six figures to Baylor Athletics

That doesn't mean I'm smart, but I have plenty of experience. I've seen this sort of train wreck before. I was told this by a smart man many years ago and truth and experience bear out this statement:

"It's not the employees you fire that cost you the most money. It's the ones you DON'T fire."

That addage has been proven true to me many, many times. It's really hard sometime to let go of a guy that you just knew would work out, especially if you have a lot of money invested in him. If you've stuck your neck out on a hiring decision it's hard to back down. Nobody likes to be proven dead-ass wrong.

Matt Rhule may be a good Christian man, a great family man, a man of character and a hale fellow well met. But a good fit as a football coach for the Baylor Bears, he is not.

Baylor has a bad habit of hiring guys like that.

Bill Beall and Kevin Steele were two of those guys that fit that profile. In both cases the Board of Regents made those hires because they fit the Baylor image. They passed over some coaches that would have probably won them more ball games. I know of one of those "pass-overs" that won a national championship at another university.

Kevin Steele was hired because a couple of those all-knowing Regents were impressed by his bs that he attended Sunday School and Church every Sunday, even during football season. Another applicant was asked by the BOR if he was a church-goer if he attended faithfully. He answered that he did, but not during football season. An honest answer was apparently not what they wanted. The only thing that mattered was the color of his prayer cloth.

It is my fear that the BOR acted unwisely with Rhule (:and Rhoads for that matter) because they were more interested in repairing their image (which they iniated) that to hire a real candidate.

Losers like Beall and Steele have a look and a manner about them. Steele choked his first two games at Baylor and the remarks that followed both losses were telling. I was sitting in a skybox as a guest of a letterman/donor at the UNLV debacle. It was the first game for the skyboxes and spirits were high for the new regime. Like everyone else we cringed at what we saw on the field.

Steele had invited us to the press conference after the game and what we saw made us sick. Instead of owning up to his mistake Steele slimed around some excuse that he was trying to teach his players to win. His inability to look anyone in the eye and his preaching of that goody two shoes theology during the press conference assured us he was in over his head and didn't have a clue about what to do to turn us around. We suffered even worse as his tenure wore on. I hate to admit it, but after the 70-22 blood letting at Cal, I bet $50 a game on Baylor's opponent and gave the points on all of the Bears remaining games that season. And I won $500 bucks. Baylor never covered.

Sadly, after that game, Baylor gave Steele a one year extension. Talk about throwing good money after bad.

So . . . down to Rhule (and Rhodes).

Rhule has that look and manner about him. My mind flashed back to that first Steele press conference. He even wears Steele's five o clock shadow. Close your eyes and you think Steele is speaking.

He has no answers. He has that same smug look and preaches those same platitudes while refusing to look anybody in the eye. He brought slow, stodgy old up-east, Big X football into Texas and has refused to try what has actually worked here in recent years. Instead of embracing success he has decided to shove his will upon this team. I realize there are injuries,but this guy is offering no solutions.

You all know what Steele did to Baylor's program. For you young pups (I was a student then) Beall went winless his first year, won one game his second year and won a whopping two his third year, none of them conference games. In his defense, Beall just never knew what to do. Lord, do we wish we only had a three year deal on Rhule?

So to the chase . . . This guy will never produce a winner. He ain't got it. He don't fit. It's time to p*ss on the fire and call in the dogs. The hunt is over. At least Arkansas had the balls to fire Jack Crowe after losing to Citadel at the first of the season. Frank Broyles knew. He'd looked him in the eyes and listened to his excuses. I doubt we have anybody on the BOR that could pull that trick.

That's what needs to happen toot-sweet. Baylor will not win another game this year under this good Christian man. If they do, it will be celebrated as a moral victory so that Rhule can live to fight another day and draw another $4 million paycheck.

Pay the guy off. So what if it costs $14 million. They've given more than that to women crying rape. (some were legitimate, for sure). The BOR will soon have payments on a stadium they can't afford when the fans and donors decide to leave and sit on their wallets.

As I mentioned earlier, they cannot afford NOT to fire him.! The time is now not later.
I hear you. But I also think the point is probably moot. Unless something unforeseen happens, Rhule gets 3 years from the administration to put the program on solid footing.

Even with the disaster of last season, I was willing to give Rhule the benefit of the doubt. Now I'm starting to doubt whether I should have given him that benefit. Three games in 2018 is enough to start seeing a pattern, and I don't like what I'm seeing, particularly on defense. You can get by on less talent if you're tough and disciplined, and this team looks to have neither quality.

Rhule didn't come into this job like Beall or Dave Roberts or Steele, none of whom had shown they could succeed as head coaches before arriving at BU. Rhule turned a god-awful program at Temple into a pretty good one. So it's not like we don't know WHETHER the guy can coach; we just don't know whether he'll be any good at BU.

Right now the results are not encouraging. But I think we have to wait to see where they wind up this year.

When you fire somebody after just two seasons solely for poor results on the field, you have to go into that knowing that you'll be creating doubts in the minds of coaching candidates as to whether they'll be given a fair chance to turn things around. And this is especially true given the depleted state of the program when Rhule arrived. We might miss out on some good candidates who otherwise would be willing to consider the job. That ought to give us pause.

On the other hand, if it's abundantly clear by the end of the season that he's not going to get the job done in 3 years or 6 years, maybe we can't afford to wait, especially if the stands are almost empty every week.
"Free your ass and your mind will follow." -- George Clinton
Dia del DougO
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EvilTroyAndAbed said:

bunation said:

Unfortunately, with our BOR, a coach with Rhule's resume WAS the best we could hope to hire. That hasn't changed.

By the time Baylor is ready to replace Rhule, Baylor will be a step down from UNT.
"The only true currency in this bankrupt world is what you share with someone else when you're uncool."
 
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