My favorite expression ever: The fewer the nuts in the jar, the more noise they make.
BaylorHistory said:oldbear69 said:
Controversial 36 yd fg with no time left for the Winnsboro 30-28 win .. both teams ranked in top 10 ..
So we should hire the Winnsboro coach then?
Thee University said:
Google is your friend.
.
REX said:
Thee's body fat is somewhere between 2-30 percent
His number
I know this to be true. My question is: was it possible to correct the problems without blowing up the entire university and athletic department?Keyser Soze said:Robert Wilson said:
Like any nasty family rumor-mill fight, you can follow Keyser Soze's message board tale of dastardly deeds, or you can just read the subsequent sworn deposition testimony of Baylor's BOR Chair, Ron Murff ...
"I can't say a specific (Title IX or SA reporting) rule Briles broke." - Ron Murff
context moron
There is a Mountain of other stuff
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.drahthaar said:I know this to be true. My question is: was it possible to correct the problems without blowing up the entire university and athletic department?Keyser Soze said:Robert Wilson said:
Like any nasty family rumor-mill fight, you can follow Keyser Soze's message board tale of dastardly deeds, or you can just read the subsequent sworn deposition testimony of Baylor's BOR Chair, Ron Murff ...
"I can't say a specific (Title IX or SA reporting) rule Briles broke." - Ron Murff
context moron
There is a Mountain of other stuff
The anger (that continues) was all about leadership at the top and then through all the management levels below.
The fact that resolutions/solutions to the problems don't seem to to adequately satisfied the "complaints", even the egregious ones, and the battle continues sub rosa.
What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
Hop in your Yugo and hit the CEFCO Travel Center at I-30 and Hwy 37 there in Mt. Vernon. If the blue hair crowd is there it will be right up your alley.Osodecentx said:
Y'all start your own thread.
I'd like to discuss Mt Vernon
The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. That's not Art's fault. That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also. What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program. They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction. And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.Thee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
They don't have a long and storied tradition of strong footballIowaBear said:
What's the story on Malakoff? Looking at the brackets they steamrolled several teams. How does Briles match up with them in the Quarters?
Osodecentx said:They don't have a long and storied tradition of strong footballIowaBear said:
What's the story on Malakoff? Looking at the brackets they steamrolled several teams. How does Briles match up with them in the Quarters?
^aboveTexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. CorrectThee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
That's not Art's fault. And no one other than ill informed team Briles' members have said that. Just stop.
That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. Yes, likely why they said so
If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also.
Starr and Briles both were fired
What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program.
That is exactly what they did. There is literally 1,000 pages of information of Baylor's short comings and an outline of recommendations of corrective actions on Baylor.edu There is an audit of the implementation of the 105 PH recommendations by the same lawyers than made the recommendations.
https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf
They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction.
They hired an independent consulting firm that investigated for eight months. Firing in August 2015 after the Texas Monthly article would have been knee jerk. This does not look like knee jerk.
And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.
Yes, we should have had more than an effective Title IX program installed and working. It should have been the best and most robust in the Big 12.TexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. That's not Art's fault. That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also. What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program. They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction. And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.Thee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
Who are you talking to? Who said it was solely the Head Coach to blame?Timbear said:
If it was Art's fault, why give our snakes on the BOR over 100 changes to be made based on their incompetence?
Look, there is another thread that y'all f'ed up. Why not argue about CAB over there and let us enjoy this one?Keyser Soze said:^aboveTexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. CorrectThee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
That's not Art's fault. And no one other than ill informed team Briles' members have said that. Just stop.
That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. Yes, likely why they said so
If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also.
Starr and Briles both were fired
What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program.
That is exactly what they did. There is literally 1,000 pages of information of Baylor's short comings and an outline of recommendations of corrective actions on Baylor.edu There is an audit of the implementation of the 105 PH recommendations by the same lawyers than made the recommendations.
https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf
They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction.
They hired an independent consulting firm that investigated for eight months. Firing in August 2015 after the Texas Monthly article would have been knee jerk. This does not look like knee jerk.
And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.
I figured everybody who is still playing is good.IowaBear said:Osodecentx said:They don't have a long and storied tradition of strong footballIowaBear said:
What's the story on Malakoff? Looking at the brackets they steamrolled several teams. How does Briles match up with them in the Quarters?
Maybe not. But they have shut out like 5 opponents and have blown out almost everyone
Osodecentx said:Look, there is another thread that y'all f'ed up. Why not argue about CAB over there and let us enjoy this one?Keyser Soze said:^aboveTexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. CorrectThee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
That's not Art's fault. And no one other than ill informed team Briles' members have said that. Just stop.
That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. Yes, likely why they said so
If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also.
Starr and Briles both were fired
What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program.
That is exactly what they did. There is literally 1,000 pages of information of Baylor's short comings and an outline of recommendations of corrective actions on Baylor.edu There is an audit of the implementation of the 105 PH recommendations by the same lawyers than made the recommendations.
https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf
They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction.
They hired an independent consulting firm that investigated for eight months. Firing in August 2015 after the Texas Monthly article would have been knee jerk. This does not look like knee jerk.
And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.
keyser, delete before another derail. This one is back on trackKeyser Soze said:Osodecentx said:Look, there is another thread that y'all f'ed up. Why not argue about CAB over there and let us enjoy this one?Keyser Soze said:^aboveTexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. CorrectThee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
That's not Art's fault. And no one other than ill informed team Briles' members have said that. Just stop.
That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. Yes, likely why they said so
If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also.
Starr and Briles both were fired
What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program.
That is exactly what they did. There is literally 1,000 pages of information of Baylor's short comings and an outline of recommendations of corrective actions on Baylor.edu There is an audit of the implementation of the 105 PH recommendations by the same lawyers than made the recommendations.
https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf
They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction.
They hired an independent consulting firm that investigated for eight months. Firing in August 2015 after the Texas Monthly article would have been knee jerk. This does not look like knee jerk.
And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.
Why respond to me when TexasScientist posted incorrect information about Baylor prior to me?
The obvious answer is you don't care.
Like I had a lot to do with any decisions!Timbear said:
Only Art had been destroyed. No one else. The BOR and people like Thee and BOR apologists want to make sure of that. That's who I'm talking about.
It was meant for all of you. I don't care to post it 3 times.Keyser Soze said:Osodecentx said:Look, there is another thread that y'all f'ed up. Why not argue about CAB over there and let us enjoy this one?Keyser Soze said:^aboveTexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. CorrectThee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
That's not Art's fault. And no one other than ill informed team Briles' members have said that. Just stop.
That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. Yes, likely why they said so
If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also.
Starr and Briles both were fired
What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program.
That is exactly what they did. There is literally 1,000 pages of information of Baylor's short comings and an outline of recommendations of corrective actions on Baylor.edu There is an audit of the implementation of the 105 PH recommendations by the same lawyers than made the recommendations.
https://www.baylor.edu/thefacts/doc.php/301337.pdf
They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction.
They hired an independent consulting firm that investigated for eight months. Firing in August 2015 after the Texas Monthly article would have been knee jerk. This does not look like knee jerk.
And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.
Why respond to me when TexasScientist posted incorrect information about Baylor prior to me?
The obvious answer is you don't care.
Why not take this over to the thread y'all already f'ed upThee University said:Who are you talking to? Who said it was solely the Head Coach to blame?Timbear said:
If it was Art's fault, why give our snakes on the BOR over 100 changes to be made based on their incompetence?
Plenty of culprits. My Top 5 order of screwing up the entire program:
#1. Athletic Director
#2. Head Football Coach
#3. President
#4. Top 10 $$$$ Donors
#5. Assistant Coaches
Title IX is not just an athletic program. It applies to the whole of the school's operations. There were numerous issues and failures outside of athletics.Thee University said:Yes, we should have had more than an effective Title IX program installed and working. It should have been the best and most robust in the Big 12.TexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. That's not Art's fault. That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also. What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program. They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction. And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.Thee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
I fault the AD more than the BOR or the Baylor Administration for not getting it done.
The BOR had to fire Art. Art gave them no recourse. He ran an ultra loose ship and admitted it. He knew he had some potential law breakers on the team he assembled. Every team has a few. He knew that he was acting like a bull in a china closet and that eventually it was going to be too much for some old, hardliner Baylor big wheels. He essentially fired himself! He had it made though. His actions and in-actions made me question his goals in the coaching arena and his commitment to staying at BU. Had he hired a Ray Donovan to enforce and watch over the players who were pushing Baylor decency and an AD that watched over Art himself, he would still be in Waco had he wanted to be there.
There were a large number of Baylor folks that had lost some of their "innocence" during the mounting wins. It was like a drug. Art was the pusher man and concave chested, pencil necked and limp wristed Baylor fans finally decided they had been beaten up long enough and the "drug" being pushed (W's) was just too tasty to turn down no matter the collateral damage. Some of you still feel this way 1,647 days later.
Matt Rhule showed you that Baylor can replicate the Briles record without scandal and without a track meet because Rhule knew how to abide by the Baylor Laws. He also knew that REAL successful and winning college football addressed all four legs - O, D, ST & DISCIPLINE.
It's going to be OK.
Did any of you truly expect Baylor to make the correct decisions?
Why not take this over to the thread y'all already f'ed upTexasScientist said:Title IX is not just an athletic program. It applies to the whole of the school's operations. There were numerous issues and failures outside of athletics.Thee University said:Yes, we should have had more than an effective Title IX program installed and working. It should have been the best and most robust in the Big 12.TexasScientist said:The Admin, and BOR should have had an effective Title IX program in place with all of the internal controls to make sure it was working. They didn't do that. That's not Art's fault. That lies squarely with the Admin. and at the BOR's feet. If they were going to fire Art, and give Starr a soft exit, the entire BOR should have resigned also. What they could have done is admitted their failures, announced the corrective actions to address the problem, and implement a viable Title IX program. They didn't have to fire Art. Instead, they panicked and made a knee jerk poorly thought out reaction. And you are correct, football is not and never has been a top priority at Baylor, and the way they mismanaged this issue is just the most recent manifestation of that non priority policy. They belie their old axiom "excellence in academics and athletics." That's why the football program is where it is today, plain and simple.Thee University said:What you, your kind and Art failed to realize was that football is not and never has been top priority at Baylor. What you boys seemed to implement was a no accountability program at the largest Baptist University in the world. That Mt. Carmel dawg won't hunt.TexasScientist said:
That is what any other major school run by a competent board would have done. Corrected the problems and continued on.
There are rules at Baylor. All the AD had to do was sit Art down prior to every season he lasted before firing himself and read Art the Baylor Mission Statement. Then he could have explained that statement and other Baylor do's and don'ts in a language that Art understood. Ask Art who the problem children are and what he is doing to hold them in check. Remind him that you can only push the BOR so far at Baylor before they push back.
A lot of babysitting needed to happen. It didn't.
I fault the AD more than the BOR or the Baylor Administration for not getting it done.
The BOR had to fire Art. Art gave them no recourse. He ran an ultra loose ship and admitted it. He knew he had some potential law breakers on the team he assembled. Every team has a few. He knew that he was acting like a bull in a china closet and that eventually it was going to be too much for some old, hardliner Baylor big wheels. He essentially fired himself! He had it made though. His actions and in-actions made me question his goals in the coaching arena and his commitment to staying at BU. Had he hired a Ray Donovan to enforce and watch over the players who were pushing Baylor decency and an AD that watched over Art himself, he would still be in Waco had he wanted to be there.
There were a large number of Baylor folks that had lost some of their "innocence" during the mounting wins. It was like a drug. Art was the pusher man and concave chested, pencil necked and limp wristed Baylor fans finally decided they had been beaten up long enough and the "drug" being pushed (W's) was just too tasty to turn down no matter the collateral damage. Some of you still feel this way 1,647 days later.
Matt Rhule showed you that Baylor can replicate the Briles record without scandal and without a track meet because Rhule knew how to abide by the Baylor Laws. He also knew that REAL successful and winning college football addressed all four legs - O, D, ST & DISCIPLINE.
It's going to be OK.
Did any of you truly expect Baylor to make the correct decisions?
They've been one of the best programs in their region for the last decade, though. They've averaged over nine wins per year since 2009, winning 10 or more games six times since 2013.Osodecentx said:They don't have a long and storied tradition of strong footballIowaBear said:
What's the story on Malakoff? Looking at the brackets they steamrolled several teams. How does Briles match up with them in the Quarters?