Good point, though that team also had freshman LJ Cryer, who could've been serviceable had something happened to Flag. We had 9 legit players on that team.

BabyJBear said:

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Good point, though that team also had freshman LJ Cryer, who could've been serviceable had something happened to Flag. We had 9 legit players on that team.

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That is true, I was thinking he was injured, but I think he was healthy that year. Just not in the rotation yet.

Quinton said:

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Critical part though.. who is doing the "moneyball" evals. They've missed a lot on the biggest paid guys.

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Gotta be a couple of those guys in quarter-zips on the bench....I knew they were worthless.

drahthaar said:

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bear2be2 said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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I don't disagree with any of this, but I have a couple of fun observations.

Everybody wanted to pay players and give players a great deal of mobility, and now they are surprised that the whole thing has become transactional. Ok.

And I remember a lot of people criticizing Briles because the players that he won college games with did not do great in the NFL. OK. I'm glad we now all agree that the job of college coaches is to win college games.

---

I don't think most fans wanted to pay players. They just understood it was an inevitability once the schools started making hundreds of millions of dollars off their names, images, likenesses and talents.

College athletics aren't broken because of the athletes. They're broken because of the schools, the fake (and largely unconstitutional) governing body they created/perpetuated and the environment they fostered by selling out at every stop for corporate greed.

---

These athletes' unrealistic expectations haven't done the entire business any favors.

---

As it has turned out, their expectations aren't unrealistic at all. We have billionaires, churches and schools bending over backwards to give them exactly what they want -- frequently eschewing any pretense of ethics or morals in the process.

All apparent evidence would suggest these players are worth exactly what they thought they were.

guadalupeoso said:

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Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

I don't think it's unreasonable to set our baseline expectations and standards above a once-in-forever set of circumstances that ended in murder and a massive (failed) cheating conspiracy.

Another such scandal would justifiably end Baylor athletics forever, so I feel no need to even entertain it as a forward-looking possibility.

But for a post-scandal environment, which is the one I'm operating in, this season is literally as bad as it can get. We could conceivably have a slightly worse record, but it wouldn't matter at all because once you're terrible, degrees don't really matter. And we are terrible right now with no rational reasons for optimism in the immediate forecast. People can say "Scott will get this ship righted," but that's just hope and cope until something actually changes.

The Baylor basketball program flat sucks right now. There is no rosier picture to be painted.

Scott Drew deserves every accolade for what he did at Baylor. He also deserves every criticism for what he is doing currently. If I were a fan of a blue blood program, there is no way in hell I would want to hire Scott Drew based on his post-title performance.

While Drew's entire body of work has earned him legend status --- at Baylor and across the college basketball landscape -- I don't even think he's a good college basketball coach in 2026, much less an elite one. And after the last two seasons -- one mediocre by every standard and the other awful -- the onus is on him to prove me wrong.

Big12Bear said:

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guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

There are a handful of posters who are highly emotional, petulant children. The vast majority share your perspective.

---

Some of us are just actually diehard basketball fans -- a rarity at Baylor University, I know. And as such, we have standards that don't excuse taking a team from the pinnacle of the sport to the outhouse in a five-year span.

I think I've only seen two people on this board call for Scott Drew to be fired, and I'm not one of them. I've repeatedly said he gets another two seasons before we even entertain the idea of pushing him out.

But I think you'd have a very hard time making a case that we wouldn't have been better off trading Scott Drew for Grant McCasland two years ago. I said it then and still feel now that Scott Drew taking the Kentucky job would have likely been best for all involved parties.

Scott's boat was taking on water long before it actually sank to the bottom this season.

If he can't win next season he needs to retire. And, under those circumstances, I think that's exactly what he would do.

While the money misses are already noted, the other area that has ended in this involves our normal recruiting process.

On one side, the staff has had an uncanny eye in spotting 4-5 stars who were good enough in their 1 season to be drafted (Kendall, Sochan, Keyonte, JaKobe, Yves, VJ, and likely Tounde). There have been plenty of 5 stars who have played multiple years of college ball at other places because they didn't shine in their 1 year and make themselves attractive for NBA scouts. It's great for recruiting and fun to brag about, but losing those guys created an immediate hole in a model of consistency.

On the other side, we either completely whiffed or couldn't develop young guys ranging from Zach Loveday and Jordan Turner to Miro Little, Yanis Ndjonga, Jason Asemota and Marino Dubravcic. Other than Asemota (who has been a flop at BC), all of those guys ended up going down in level mid-majors not up to other P5 programs and, other than Little (who went P5 at first and didn't do too well at Utah but doing much better at Santa Barbara), really aren't doing or didn't do much at that level so I tend to think they were more recruiting misses than development misses, which again goes back to talent evaluation.

So basically, we had a chasm develop between great recruits and non-functional recruits. We had no happy medium other than Robert Wright and of course we lost him to money. It was complete hit or complete miss and this is one of the few times where complete hit was not a good thing because we lost the player faster. And therein is where Kelvin, TJ, Grant and to a certain extent Tommy Lloyd excelled in finding talented guys (but not so talented the NBA was ready to steal them), keeping them and developing them.

This summer will be telling as we find out after redshirting whether Soyoye and Igoudala turn out to be Zach Loveday and Jordan Turner level or diamonds in the rough who will be developed and become cornerstornes similar to some who have gone through Kelvin, TJ's and other top programs.

bear2be2 said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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If he can't win next season he needs to retire. And, under those circumstances, I think that's exactly what he would do.

---

... but if you had told me that Scott Drew's Baylor tenure ending like this was even a possibility after 2021, I'd have told you you were crazy.

To see all momentum that was ever built in our football and men's basketball program eroded away in less than half a decade has been insane to watch in real time. We're right back where we were when I was a student (2003-07), which just seems inconceivable given the heights we had achieved.

---

You can thank NIL and the portal

Look on the bright side, at least we are winning in Rocket League

BEARS WIN! 🐻🎮@BaylorEsports took home the Rocket League title at the Hawai’I Esports Invitational -- the program's first tournament trophy:https://t.co/k1YV5mZ609

— Baylor University (@Baylor) February 21, 2026

Robert Wilson said:

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Delmar 2.0 said:

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bear2be2 said:

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CorsicanaBear said:

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If he can't win next season he needs to retire. And, under those circumstances, I think that's exactly what he would do.

---

... but if you had told me that Scott Drew's Baylor tenure ending like this was even a possibility after 2021, I'd have told you you were crazy.

To see all momentum that was ever built in our football and men's basketball program eroded away in less than half a decade has been insane to watch in real time. We're right back where we were when I was a student (2003-07), which just seems inconceivable given the heights we had achieved.

---

You can thank NIL and the portal

---

That's bull****

NIL and the portal flatten the college landscape, if anything, creating opportunities for second or third tier athletic programs like Baylor

We have had a long run of bad leadership - simple as that

---

I agree. There are way too many schools with similar or lesser resources finding ways to be way more competitive than we are for me to use -- or even accept -- that excuse.

Forget what the blue bloods are doing. We're being lapped by our peers ... and programs that weren't even considered peers five years ago.

Even if next season is terrible as well, he is not retiring. His personality and drive is one to somewhat fix things and then... retire (no matter if it takes years). He is thinking about this legacy and doesn't want to leave the team and program in its current state of yuck.

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

The Baylor basketball turn around was nothing like Cignetti's. Now if they win the national title next season, that turnaround will be similar. Usually though in discussing turnarounds it involves a new coach turning around a mess created by someone else not a coach turning around his own mess.

It needs to be said there are other widely respected coaches with struggling teams this season. McDermott at Creighton, Beard at Ole Miss (yes, I know he's got character issuesstill a good coach). We also might look at Self's recent struggles. Are those programs also "rotten" like ours, or are they experiencing temporary setbacks?

Delmar 2.0 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

CorsicanaBear said:

---

If he can't win next season he needs to retire. And, under those circumstances, I think that's exactly what he would do.

---

... but if you had told me that Scott Drew's Baylor tenure ending like this was even a possibility after 2021, I'd have told you you were crazy.

To see all momentum that was ever built in our football and men's basketball program eroded away in less than half a decade has been insane to watch in real time. We're right back where we were when I was a student (2003-07), which just seems inconceivable given the heights we had achieved.

---

You can thank NIL and the portal

---

You can thank BU leadership even more. Apologies to Robert Wilson....didn't mean to plagiarize.

NEWS: Kansas’ boosters and AD held a closed meeting with HC Bill Self following today’s loss to Cincinnati, per source.

— Rob Reinhart (@RealRobReinhart) February 21, 2026

boognish_bear said:

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NEWS: Kansas’ boosters and AD held a closed meeting with HC Bill Self following today’s loss to Cincinnati, per source.

— Rob Reinhart (@RealRobReinhart) February 21, 2026

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He's a troll account.

Fake news .. if you have to put 'Real' in your Twitter handle.. you're probably not real

Stefano DiMera said:

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boognish_bear said:

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NEWS: Kansas’ boosters and AD held a closed meeting with HC Bill Self following today’s loss to Cincinnati, per source.

— Rob Reinhart (@RealRobReinhart) February 21, 2026

---

He's a troll account.

Fake news .. if you have to put 'Real' in your Twitter handle.. you're probably not real

---

Damn it...sorry.

No apologies necessary sir... You're one of the best posters on here .. reasonable and measured..

Ive been pulled offside also..

Stefano DiMera said:

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No apologies necessary sir... You're one of the best posters on here .. reasonable and measured..

Ive been pulled offside also..

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Appreciate it SD

PartyBear said:

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guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

The Baylor basketball turn around was nothing like Cignetti's. Now if they win the national title next season, that turnaround will be similar. Usually though in discussing turnarounds it involves a new coach turning around a mess created by someone else not a coach turning around his own mess.

---

Not talking about "the turn around." Ours wasn't even a turn around. But it was the product of having a bunch of old, very experienced, productive players rather than a bunch of 18 yo phenoms. Then, we went right into the 18 yo phenoms.

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

100% correct.

Drew is a National Championship coach. He has won the Big 12 twice. He has been to the NCAA tournament 13 times. Baylor had been to the NCAA tournament 1 time, yes once, since 1950 prior to Drew. You want to fire him? We would be a laughing stock of the sports world. No one with an ounce of understanding of sports would suggest this.

---

And only about two people (neither of them regular posters on this basketball board) have suggested firing Drew, so maybe spare the rest of us the feigned outrage.

---

"He needs to either figure out how to build a roster in this era or hand the program over to someone who can."

Ok whatever you say sports Einstein. You are the clown who started this thread.

JP1037 said:

---

bear2be2 said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

100% correct.

Drew is a National Championship coach. He has won the Big 12 twice. He has been to the NCAA tournament 13 times. Baylor had been to the NCAA tournament 1 time, yes once, since 1950 prior to Drew. You want to fire him? We would be a laughing stock of the sports world. No one with an ounce of understanding of sports would suggest this.

---

And only about two people (neither of them regular posters on this basketball board) have suggested firing Drew, so maybe spare the rest of us the feigned outrage.

---

"He needs to either figure out how to build a roster in this era or hand the program over to someone who can."

Ok whatever you say sports Einstein. You are the clown who started this thread.

---

That would imply that he has additional time to figure it out -- a fact apparent to anyone with half a brain.

But I've explicitly said both in this thread and elsewhere on this board that his track record has bought him an extended leash of two more years after this one before I would call for his firing. You might know that if you weren't just ducking in every now and again to white knight to us poors.

Now head on back to the pay board. Your work here is done.

JP1037 said:

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Guitarbiscuit said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

100% correct.

Drew is a National Championship coach. He has won the Big 12 twice. He has been to the NCAA tournament 13 times. Baylor had been to the NCAA tournament 1 time, yes once, since 1950 prior to Drew. You want to fire him? We would be a laughing stock of the sports world. No one with an ounce of understanding of sports would suggest this.

---

Very few of us advocate termination at this time. But do tell me-at what point would you call for his ouster? I believe he needs a chance to rectify, but that even a championship does not give one the license to continually put together the type of team he assembled this year.

---

I think it's a dumb question. "Continually put together the type of team he assembled this year". One bad year and we are contemplating what to do with a trend. We can address that in the unlikely event it happens over three years. Baylor gives Aranda a pass for a losing record after 6 years with no hope in sight of it changing. We can give a national championship coach one year. Shocks me this has to be said.

---

It's not just one bad year -- last year's team was no less flawed; it was just slightly more talented. And given that just about each of the last four teams have gotten progressively worse, we are talking about a trend.

Whether or not you've noticed it or want to acknowledge it, this season was the inevitable culmination of a series of roster building blunders since the title season.

This isn't some one off bad season that came out of the blue without any warning. It's been coming for years, and those of us paying close attention have tired arms from ringing the warning bells.

No one is suggesting that Drew should be fired immediately because of it. But some of us are damn frustrated by the fact that we're still making the same mistakes that made this season an inevitability. And our faith in a(nother) turnaround has been severely shaken by the fact that no alternative plan has been articulated to dig out of this ****hole we're in.

JP1037 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

100% correct.

Drew is a National Championship coach. He has won the Big 12 twice. He has been to the NCAA tournament 13 times. Baylor had been to the NCAA tournament 1 time, yes once, since 1950 prior to Drew. You want to fire him? We would be a laughing stock of the sports world. No one with an ounce of understanding of sports would suggest this.

---

Very few of us advocate termination at this time. But do tell me-at what point would you call for his ouster? I believe he needs a chance to rectify, but that even a championship does not give one the license to continually put together the type of team he assembled this year.

---

I think it's a dumb question. "Continually put together the type of team he assembled this year". One bad year and we are contemplating what to do with a trend. We can address that in the unlikely event it happens over three years. Baylor gives Aranda a pass for a losing record after 6 years with no hope in sight of it changing. We can give a national championship coach one year. Shocks me this has to be said.

---

I think your answer is flawed. See above replay from Bear2Be. Pretending this is "one year" problem is shortsighted and doesn't look at overall regression trend since '21. And we are now in '26.

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

Guitarbiscuit said:

---

JP1037 said:

---

guadalupeoso said:

---

Actually rock bottom was when that one guy on our team killed the other guy.

Look, I'm not saying Scott Drew is going to turn us into perennial national champions. But he will get this ship righted. He's done it before, under much harder circumstances. And to think he's mailing it in and just accepting a paycheck is to be willfully ignorant of his personality and everything we have learned about him as head coach FOR OVER 20 YEARS. He's an extreme competitor and for the most part, forward thinker.

If we were to listen to some of you on here and run him off, he would end up at a "bigger" program within 18 months. Like whittingham to Michigan.

Him turning our program into a national title winner is literally, no hyperbole, the greatest turnaround in the history of college athletics. It's even more amazing than what Curt Cignetti just did. And for that, he will have my loyalty. Obviously some things need to change and we've been heading in a disappointing direction, but Y'all need some perspective.

---

100% correct.

Drew is a National Championship coach. He has won the Big 12 twice. He has been to the NCAA tournament 13 times. Baylor had been to the NCAA tournament 1 time, yes once, since 1950 prior to Drew. You want to fire him? We would be a laughing stock of the sports world. No one with an ounce of understanding of sports would suggest this.

---

Very few of us advocate termination at this time. But do tell me-at what point would you call for his ouster? I believe he needs a chance to rectify, but that even a championship does not give one the license to continually put together the type of team he assembled this year.

---

I think it's a dumb question. "Continually put together the type of team he assembled this year". One bad year and we are contemplating what to do with a trend. We can address that in the unlikely event it happens over three years. Baylor gives Aranda a pass for a losing record after 6 years with no hope in sight of it changing. We can give a national championship coach one year. Shocks me this has to be said.

---

I think your answer is flawed. See above replay from Bear2Be. Pretending this is "one year" problem is shortsighted and doesn't look at overall regression trend since '21. And we are now in '26.

---

Single seasons don't matter as much as trendlines, And a definite trendline we have since the NC. More than factor, yes, but that doesn't alter the trendline.