So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
Canada2017 said:
chuckle
This is really funny stuff .
Just keep that magic phrase in your back pocket ............' The election was stolen ! "
Nobody has proved Biden didn't get 81 million votesJohnny Bear said:Canada2017 said:
chuckle
This is really funny stuff .
Just keep that magic phrase in your back pocket ............' The election was stolen ! "
What's even funnier stuff is actually believing dementia Joe legitimately got 81 million votes.
If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Absolutely right.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
It's a geriatric oligarchyRMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
That will be based on the choices. If you run Biden or Harris, you will get alot of those that don't like Trump holding their noses and voting for him again, just like 16 and 20. Have to give people a viable option. DeSantis will do it.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
I'm okay with DeSantis, not my first choice but he's okay. I don't think the Dems will nominate Biden (I don't think he runs) or Harris.RMF5630 said:That will be based on the choices. If you run Biden or Harris, you will get alot of those that don't like Trump holding their noses and voting for him again, just like 16 and 20. Have to give people a viable option. DeSantis will do it.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
Agree. I think it is Newsom. Dems will have a nice party for Joe and give him a watch.Mothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
please stop.. there was a 200k voting gap. 5 million extra votes in California dont mean anythingMothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Psst, it's not 2020. Important things have changed.Mothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
Ironical. This isn't about better options. It's about a cult of personality. Hard to manufacture better options for that crowd.Oldbear83 said:Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Give the voters better options, and stop playing dictator.
It was more than that in the swing states he lost, but let's assume for argument purposes that it was only 200k. Is it your position Trump would win those swing states in the next election cycle, despite being significantly less popular than he was while in office?4th and Inches said:please stop.. there was a 200k voting gap. 5 million extra votes in California dont mean anythingMothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
Indeed. Trump is even less popular than he was in 2020, and may soon be under indictment. He will also be nearing 80 and unhinged on his revenge tour.Oldbear83 said:Psst, it's not 2020. Important things have changed.Mothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
Oh please.ATL Bear said:Ironical. This isn't about better options. It's about a cult of personality. Hard to manufacture better options for that crowd.Oldbear83 said:Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Give the voters better options, and stop playing dictator.
Rand Paul, Mike Pompeo, Ted Cruz, Glenn Youngkin to name a few. And yes, I prefer Desantis.Oldbear83 said:Oh please.ATL Bear said:Ironical. This isn't about better options. It's about a cult of personality. Hard to manufacture better options for that crowd.Oldbear83 said:Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Give the voters better options, and stop playing dictator.
Who would you vote for, aside from DeSantis, since he is - at this date - not running?
Yep. Amazes me how so many can't see that he has no issues bringing everyone down regardless of political stripe. He showed it in 2020 post election, and I'm not talking about Jan 6.Mothra said:Indeed. Trump is even less popular than he was in 2020, and may soon be under indictment. He will also be nearing 80 and unhinged on his revenge tour.Oldbear83 said:Psst, it's not 2020. Important things have changed.Mothra said:It's not going to be Trump v. Biden. It will most likely be Trump v. Newsom, IMO, but rest assured, the Dems aren't letting Biden run this next election cycle. They will find a way for him to bow out gracefully. Count on it.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
If the loser, re-tread Trump is the candidate, rest assured I will vote for him. But he will need a lot of help and luck to bridge that 7-million plus voting gap.
It's odd to me that so many of you Repubs think it's a foregone conclusion that the guy who got beaten handily the last election will somehow win again.
What makes you think that guy is going to win against whatever nominee the Dems put out there?
There you go then. Stop obsessing on Trump and support your preferred candidates.ATL Bear said:Rand Paul, Mike Pompeo, Ted Cruz, Glenn Youngkin to name a few. And yes, I prefer Desantis.Oldbear83 said:Oh please.ATL Bear said:Ironical. This isn't about better options. It's about a cult of personality. Hard to manufacture better options for that crowd.Oldbear83 said:Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Give the voters better options, and stop playing dictator.
Who would you vote for, aside from DeSantis, since he is - at this date - not running?
Oldbear83 said:Oh please.ATL Bear said:Ironical. This isn't about better options. It's about a cult of personality. Hard to manufacture better options for that crowd.Oldbear83 said:Stop trying to force people. That tends to produce resentment.ATL Bear said:The trajectory needs to change. It will when people stop pretending they don't want Trump and actually NOT want Trump.Oldbear83 said:For clarity, I don't want it to be Trump, but the current trajectory is headed for a rematch of 2020.RMF5630 said:I hope it is not. We need to move forward without any of them! We need new choices.Oldbear83 said:If it's Trump v Biden in 2024, Trump wins and all ya'll haters will be screaming at the skies again.Mothra said:So, you believe that despite the large turnout for Trump among the base, and support from moderates, Trump will garner enough votes this time around to bridge that 7 million vote gap? Are you counting on Dems to stay at home this election cycle, or for Dems to vote Republican?whiterock said:Comments on your items in Bold:Oldbear83 said:OK, let's play:Canada2017 said:whiterock said:except that polling does not bear that out. He INCREASED his share of the female vote in 2020 and is winning with independents at the moment.Canada2017 said:THINK PEOPLE4th and Inches said:you think all of this is help Trump to be the nominee..Canada2017 said:Wrong4th and Inches said:
lol, the Dems want nothing to do with running against Trump..
Trump is too old , too obnoxious and too self destructive .
Dems are extending these ridiculous January 6th hearings just praying that Trump is the Republican nominee.
Lord..
Dems know Trump's base loves him regardless of these Jan 6th hearings.
All this BS is geared toward INDEPENDENTS ........making them begin to suspect Trump really did attempt to overthrow the US government .
Repeat a lie long enough and weak minded people will begin to believe it .
Then Trump's consistent ability to self destruct will do the rest.
Trump is the ONE guy the Dem's can beat easily .
Amazing how some of you will not accept the fact that women, moderates and younger voters absolutely HATE the clown....policies be damned .
So we believe in polling now ….who knew ?
A. Folks don't like Biden .
B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee.
C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency.
D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force .
E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership .
F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'.
From the guy who demands we THINK but he won't:
"A. Folks don't like Biden ."
There we agree, and applying a little Occam's Razor, that more than anything else means 2020 won't happen again.
"B. But Biden will NOT be the Dem nominee."
Ah, but there the Democrats have a big problem. First, whether or not the Donks replace Joe B, the Democrats as a party pushed hard for all those things that ruined the economy, shut down the pipelines and wells and generally caused misery for Americans. Changing the mascot won't change that impression.
Second, historically it's bad juju for a party with an incumbent President not to support him. Every time the Democrats have abandoned a President in hopes of presenting someone more likable, they lost the White House. That's because - I think - the President has a residual level of support which is not transferable to another candidate, even from the same party.
Third, the Democrats in recent history have only won when they had a well-prepared candidate ready for the race. Biden, despite his poor primary showing, was the Democrats' preferred candidate as early as 2018, just as Obama was waiting in the wings as early as 2006. The last surprise candidate for the Democrats to win was Bill Clinton in 1992, who declared just 15 months before the '92 election and was only a the front-runner after Super Tuesday. But there is no one in the Democrats' potential field with the resume and charisma of Bill Clinton.
"C. Folks nationwide don't see or hear Trump much anymore . So he is ' polling better ' due his name recognition and the fact that gas was much cheaper during his presidency."
Flat wrong. The Democrats have made sure no one forgot Trump. Aside from the show trial hearings of the "Jan 6" committee, Biden tried several times to blame his blunders on Trump, and the media has made him a regular target for attacks. So no, no one has forgotten Trump.
The plain fact is that for all the smearing of Trump, his policies were so much better than Biden's that voters make it clear they prefer Trump. That is not to say Trump would automatically win in 2024, a lot of factors go into that election and it's a long way off yet, but for now the only honest judgment would be that Trump would curb-stomp Biden if the 2024 election were held today, and it was a choice between those two candidates.
"D. But once Trump gets a national audience again …the revulsion women, moderates and younger voters instinctively feel for him is going to come back in full force ."
False. The media has done its worst, and any damage done to Trump was done before the 2020 election. The plain fact is that "women, moderates and younger voters" also have bills to pay, and historically vote their pocketbooks and wallets. This time is simply following that lead.
"E. And against a younger , smoother Dem nominee Trump is going to look OLD . Americans across the political spectrum are fed up with OLD leadership ."
And just where do you expect the Donks to find this 'younger, smoother' leader to save them from their Bidenalypse? The DNC has been trending older and more Party-Loyal for years. Gabbard and Mancin, the closest thing to reasonable people among the Democrats, are PNG among DNC elite. The House is run by Pelosi, the Senate by Schumer, and the White House by Geritol. And there is no evidence whatsoever that the Democrats have seen the light and are working to remedy this age issue.
"F. So either nominate any of the younger , smarter , true Republicans out there….or get ready to discuss how the 2024 was 'stolen'."
Grow the F up and suck a lemon. We don't know who the Republicans will nominate in 2024 yet, but you really need to come to grips that Trump has a viable candidacy, and if we don't nominate Trump we will need to nominate someone with very similar policies and just a strong a spine.
B) you've touched on the huge error Trump GOP critics are making. Trump's coalition will NOT automatically transfer over to DeSantis or anyone else. There WILL be losses which must be offset by adds not apparent at the moment. Not saying the adds are not there, just that they are "two in the bush" which may or may not materialize.
C) if Dems do not ironclad close the sale on the J6 Hoax (which polling is manifestly clear they are/will not) they will create the old "there is no such thing as bad publicity" dynamic. Just keeping the guy alive, in the news, and most importantly, relevant as the leader of a reform/restructuring movement.
D) that's the weakness of progressivism - it solves nothing. Literally makes no proposals which could benefit ordinary people deal with ordinary problems of life.
E) all the young leaders in the Dem party are new-generation progressives far to the left of Biden. They are ideologues who cannot/will not pander to centrist notions.
Trump critics completely ignore the reality that Democrats have far bigger problems with their coalition than the GOP does with Trump. It is collapsing, in no small part because of Trump
There are a number of important reasons why 2024 would not repeat 2020. The short version is look at the State Legislatures.
Give the voters better options, and stop playing dictator.
Who would you vote for, aside from DeSantis, since he is - at this date - not running?
actually, it's pretty obvious he didn't, to any objective observer. Just look at the rejection rate in the Democrat primary in 2020, then look at the reject rate in the general election. It's a 5 percentage point difference. Add in a little register by mail fraud, a metric ****-ton of ballot harvesting, and vote counting shenanigans in the big blue precincts, etc.....Osodecentx said:Nobody has proved Biden didn't get 81 million votesJohnny Bear said:Canada2017 said:
chuckle
This is really funny stuff .
Just keep that magic phrase in your back pocket ............' The election was stolen ! "
What's even funnier stuff is actually believing dementia Joe legitimately got 81 million votes.
Final independent @trafalgar_group #AZSen ’22 #GOP primary #poll of likely voters. #Masters increases lead heading into #electionday. #AZpol
— Robert C. Cahaly (@RobertCahaly) August 2, 2022
39.0% @bgmasters
24.1% @Jim_Lamon
15.9% @brnoforaz
7.4% @GeneralMcGuire
4.2% @_JustinOlson
9.4% Und
See Report: https://t.co/6L5BiJsBgg pic.twitter.com/QW0TQUS62w
Final independent #AZGov @trafalgar_group #GOP primary #poll (7/30-8/01) shows #Kari maintaining lead
— The Trafalgar Group (@trafalgar_group) August 2, 2022
48.9% @KariLake
38.2% @Karrin4Arizona
2.6% @MattSalmonAZ*
2.4% @ScottNeelyAZ
1.8% @ZforArizona
6.1% Und
*Salmon withdrawn but on ballot
See Report: https://t.co/LQPR5oxVpQ pic.twitter.com/M9u88a9Krk
AZ GOV GOP PRIMARY - FINAL 8 POLLS@EmersonPolling (Taylor Robson+1)@Rasmussen_Poll (Lake +9)@OHPredictive (Lake +18)@Data_Orbital (Lake +11)@AlloyAnalytics (Lake +10)@trafalgar_group (Lake +9)@cygnal (Lake +11)@Peoples_Pundit (Lake +14)
— InteractivePolls (@IAPolls2022) July 31, 2022
What was the bad info? WSJ has Masters and Lake ahead4th and Inches said:
We will see but WSJ got some bad info..
That guy is nuts and completely evil. He cares about nothing about anything other than himself.Mothra said:ABC BEAR said:
You will have 3 choices in 2024:
1) Trump
2) Harris
3) Stay Home
It's not going to be Harris. It will be Newsom. Wait and see.
Pretty much it.Mothra said:You raise some good points. Here are some of the issues as I see it with Trump.whiterock said:is it worth the risk of running a candidate that doesn't excite the majority of the party?RMF5630 said:Is it worth the risk? Is it worth risking the National response not being a juggernaut? Is it worth the response being a run to the other side and giving the Dems four more years to implement this platform?whiterock said:original question implied primary. And the primary will not be particularly competitive. If Trump runs, he wins. If he doesn't, DeSantis wins. The next most viable alternative scenario to that is that DeSantis continues to strengthen enough to knock off Trump. That will be on the order of single-digit probability, but that will give Oso, et al enough to dream of unicorns & pixie dust. I continue to suggest that the assembled experts here recognize that a Trump-DeSantis ticket is the mostly likely outcome of all, by an goodly margin.RMF5630 said:Gotta keep in mind primary vs general. Trump may be able to win primary, but general? He brings alot of bad blood, distrust and motivation against him holding office again.whiterock said:
DeSantis.
I don't think there's much need to consider anyone else. The Trump supporters would flow to DeSantis in large enough numbers to make the rest of the race just a contest for the VP slot.
I.E. DeSantis is sitting on approx 25%. What percentage of Trump's approx 60% would DeSantis have to receive to win? Answer: a third. At 45% support in what will likely be a crowded field, there wouldn't be enough votes left for anyone else to mount a credible challenge. (remember, primaries are winner take all = no runoffs.)
So who here thinks more than 2/3rds of Trump supporters will flow to the likes of Pence, Haley, Pompeo, etc......
This could end up being a classic "could he vs should he?" If Trump runs, you will see a motivated progressive and Democratic base and will the Independents go to Trump after 2020? Whether he is guilty of a crime or not, the turmoil he was involved with and his juvenile response is a negative to many, even if his loyalist don't want to admit it. The best you can say about his 2020 behavior is he acted poorly.
I still don't believe the January 6th Commission is legit or that Trump did anything to get him banned or prosecuted, but he did not handle the situation well and placed many in very tough situations. Poor Cassidy had to clean up the spaghetti before donning her cape and saving Democracy...
When we look at the general, Trump is materially out-polling DeSantis, consistently outside the margin of error. He's also outpolling the two most likely Democrat candidates, by similar or greater margins.
None of that is saying what should/ought.
Saying what is and therefore what is most likely to be.
Trump is going to run stronger in the general than most here realize. He will be a juggernaut all the way thru to the WH. The legislative package Manchin just signed on to virtually guarantees it. You cannot continue to deficit spend while simultaneously raising taxes in the midst of an economy mired in historically bad stagflation and expect the economy to rebound your direction. In fact, the new green energy package is a recognition of that....Dems know their time is passing and they will spend the rest of it hammering thru their wish list, to make the GOP spend all its energy undoing it all over the 2022-2026 period. The war in Ukraine will drag on for at LEAST another 6-12 months, further stifling economic recovery around the world. So the US economy is going to get worse and worse and Dems will have nothing to run on. Even a new pandemic won't help them, given the way they mismanaged Covid. In the face of that, they will face a slashing populist with the right ideas who has exactly the kind of record of success needed to exploit the dynamics of the cycle..
2024 will better match Trump's skills than 2016.
Trump critics are completely misreading the landscape.
That's what happens when one lets their hopes lead their logic.
Trump is at 60% primary support. His next closest rival is at 25% and appeals to the same kind of voter. That should tell you all you need to know. But if you're going to run the numbers.....what percentage of each candidate's supporters will eagerly accept the other? Before you answer, remember Trump has +2x the number of primary voters that DeSantis has. I think the answer is pretty clear, and data on the Trump coalition backs it up - DeSantis has a more traditional conservative GOP voter more inclined to play team ball; Trump has brought a huge number of new voters (populists) into the party who are less inclined to play team ball. SImply put, at this point in time, Trump is going to bring a bigger base. Most importantly: he HAS it already. DeSantis does not, and it cannot be assumed that he will be able to maintain it. (Bird in Hand vs Two in Bush) You can expect a much higher percentage (of a smaller number) of DeSantis voters to swing behind Trump, and a much lower percentage (of a larger number) to swing behind DeSantis. That's why you see Trump net positives in high-80 percentages within the GOP. That's why you see all the GOP down-ballot candidates chasing his endorsement.
If we apply that calculation to the 1-12 other candidates who cumulatively appeal to about 15% of the base electorate, not one....NOT ONE.....has a prayer of assembling what the first two already have. double digit percentage points of the Trump base evaporate if anyone in this lot is on top of the ticket. Nobody NOBODY on the GOP side can bring as united and excited a base to the 2024 election.
You cannot win the middle if you can't energize your base.
You cannot win the middle if you can't energize your base.
How on earth does one propose to inspire a moderate (see the contradiction in terms?) if one cannot inspire one's own base?
Your questions are the logic of peace & prosperity, of centrists, of winning in the middle. That's the safe way to plan to win, in normal politics. Coalitions aren't going to change much, and subtle swings in the middle can be decisive. But we not in that place. We are in regime politics amidst a once-in-a-lifetime realignment of the parties at a time of stagflation, societal collapse, and global war that will by this fall be firing up regime instability throughout much of the 3rd world dependent on imported food. The center has failed. There is no middle ground. And Democrats have nothing to campaign for....all the solutions to all the problems involve repudiation of their own agenda, which is responsible for so much of the madness.
Trump will be a better fit for 2024 than he was in 2016. How do we test that? Watch the mid-terms and see how his endorsements perform. He was 98% successful in the primaries. Will we overperform, or underperform in the general? Smart money would be on the former.
An excited base still lost Trump the election by 7 million votes in 2020. Thus, even when his sycophants turned out in droves to vote for him, he still got creamed. Will that change in 2024, with the Democrats and media galvanized against him? Will he be popular with independents with the expected boorish behavior that will accompany his revenge tour? If he could shut his mouth and control his worst impulses, perhaps, but as we well know, he cannot do that.
So....he is the logical choice for Dems in 2024.Rawhide said:That guy is nuts and completely evil. He cares about nothing about anything other than himself.Mothra said:ABC BEAR said:
You will have 3 choices in 2024:
1) Trump
2) Harris
3) Stay Home
It's not going to be Harris. It will be Newsom. Wait and see.
He's Nanacy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton wrapped in one x10
"When the George Floyd riots were happening [public health experts] said...we don't believe rioting is bad for covid. It's so important that you have to do it. But if you're protesting lockdowns...then you can't do that. And that's when I knew these people are a bunch of frauds." pic.twitter.com/2ls8NRgZ9T
— Christina Pushaw 🐊 🇺🇸 (@ChristinaPushaw) August 3, 2022
Kansas.4th and Inches said:
We will see but WSJ got some bad info..Final independent @trafalgar_group #AZSen ’22 #GOP primary #poll of likely voters. #Masters increases lead heading into #electionday. #AZpol
— Robert C. Cahaly (@RobertCahaly) August 2, 2022
39.0% @bgmasters
24.1% @Jim_Lamon
15.9% @brnoforaz
7.4% @GeneralMcGuire
4.2% @_JustinOlson
9.4% Und
See Report: https://t.co/6L5BiJsBgg pic.twitter.com/QW0TQUS62wFinal independent #AZGov @trafalgar_group #GOP primary #poll (7/30-8/01) shows #Kari maintaining lead
— The Trafalgar Group (@trafalgar_group) August 2, 2022
48.9% @KariLake
38.2% @Karrin4Arizona
2.6% @MattSalmonAZ*
2.4% @ScottNeelyAZ
1.8% @ZforArizona
6.1% Und
*Salmon withdrawn but on ballot
See Report: https://t.co/LQPR5oxVpQ pic.twitter.com/M9u88a9KrkAZ GOV GOP PRIMARY - FINAL 8 POLLS@EmersonPolling (Taylor Robson+1)@Rasmussen_Poll (Lake +9)@OHPredictive (Lake +18)@Data_Orbital (Lake +11)@AlloyAnalytics (Lake +10)@trafalgar_group (Lake +9)@cygnal (Lake +11)@Peoples_Pundit (Lake +14)
— InteractivePolls (@IAPolls2022) July 31, 2022
Be right back with the enthusiasm polling.. GOP enthusiasm is way up, especially those who are pro life
