Porteroso said:xfrodobagginsx said:A true Christian cannot lose their Salvation, but they can fall out of fellowship with the Lord and Lose His Peace.Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:I think you are missing the point.Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:So are you arguing that your works can mean anything?Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
"If I need faith in my believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father then I don't want to president with a dead faith, hence works are required."
I'm sorry, I honestly don't understand the "president with a dead faith" line, what does that mean, please?
Typos
If I need faith in my belief that Jesus is the only way to the Father, then I don't want to present with a dead faith, hence works are required.
^^^was building on the understanding that faith without works….
Yes. Without a doubt. No works and only faith would obviously be a problem. It's clearly stated
As another example where the notion of once saved always saved falls short;
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven: but he that doth the will of my Father who is in heaven, he shall enter into the kingdom of heaven.
Maybe all the prior posts is more splitting hairs but it seems some posts are suggesting that all that is required is to believe / have faith
Look at your works. Which, do you think, is the most valuable to God? Which of them made Him decide you should go to Heaven, do you think?
Now before we go on, I will also say that Faith is not something that has merit in the way so many think.
For now, consider the verse: "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy".
Yes of course. I will not Argue which works are sufficient or better, if any. Only that it is clear that faith without works is dead. We can "lose" our salvation through bad works or not doing God's will.
So yes, as you stated, and I agree, I'm not arguing which good works or how many. Only that something more than zero per the writings of God is required.
The self righteousness is hilarious. You know you nailed Jesus to a tree right? Don't pretend to have a monopoly on theology. People far smarter than you have far better thought out arguments.
.joseywales said:This is all superstitious religious culture that has taught is we are sinners. Hate to break to you but there has never been an Adam and eve and we know exactly how we got here as human beings. I guess you beli e the earth is flat of a religious document tells you so...very sad for so many to not be able to find fact based truths if they are blinded by their superstitious beliefs...xfrodobagginsx said:
PLEASE TAKE THE TIME TO READ THIS. IT'S THE MOST IMPORTANT THING YOU COULD EVER DO AND IT ONLY TAKES A FEW MINUTES
ARE YOU 100% SURE THAT IF YOU DIED TODAY THAT YOU WOULD GO TO HEAVEN? (CLICK 'READ MORE')
There are some things that you should know:
1. Realize that you are a sinner and in need of a Savior:
Ro 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;"
Ro 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:"
It all began when the first humans, Adam and Eve were created and God put them in the garden of Eden. God created them perfect to live in fellowship with Him. There was no death or sorrow. God told them not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They disobeyed God and as a result, sin entered into the world. The pain, which this world sees, is the result of sin.
2. Because of our sins, we die both spiritually and physically, but God sent His Son to die so that you can have a chance not to have to go to hell by accepting what He did on the cross:
Ro 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Ro 5:8 "But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ died for us."
Every person who has ever lived is a sinner and is not righteous because we do bad things. A sin is a crime against God, just as if you steal something at the store, it is punishable by going to jail. It's the same thing with sin. Lying, stealing, sex before marriage, pride, hatred, ect. are all sins. Hell is a prison for those who commit crimes against God. That's because you must be perfect in order to get to heaven. No matter how well you live your life from then on, you have already sinned, which will be punished if you are not pardoned. If you commit a crime, and then live as a good citizen you still will go to jail for the crime you committed. Right? Just as the President can pardon a crime so you won't go to jail, Jesus can pardon your sins so that you do not go to hell, and can go to heaven when you die. You won't have to pay for your own sins because Jesus already did that for you, But if you reject the pardon that He offers, you will have to pay for your own sins by going to hell. He is the only one qualified because He is the only one ever to live a sinless, perfect life.
3. If you will confess Jesus Christ as Your Lord, place your Faith in Him and Believe in your heart that He died, shed His blood and rose again as a sacrifice for your sins, you will be saved (from hell).
Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
You cannot get to heaven by being a good person, going to church, baptism or any other way other than by turning to Jesus, believing in your heart that He died on the cross and rose from the dead for your sins and placing your Faith in Him. While these are good things to do, some people believe that they will get to heaven, but your Faith must be in Christ and His sacrifice alone and nothing else, giving your life to Him.
Eph 2:8,9 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast.
Ro 10:9,10;13 "that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved...For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved."
4. You must submit your life to Jesus Christ and His will in Faith, believing in your heart that He died and rose again shedding His blood to pay for your sins as a sacrifice to God. If you want to accept Jesus free gift of salvation, or if you have any doubts about whether or not you are going to heaven, YOU COULD HUMBLY PRAY SOMETHING LIKE THIS TO GOD FROM YOUR HEART IN FAITH:
"Dear Lord Jesus I know that I am a sinner and need you to save me. I believe that You are the Lord and believe in my heart that You died on the Cross and Rose from the dead, shedding your blood as a Sacrifice for my sins. I turn to You as the only way of Salvation, I submit my life to you, I submit my will to yours, I place my Faith and Trust in You alone as Lord of my life, Please save me and I thank You for it, in Jesus holy name, Amen."
If you have truly placed your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord, submitting your life to Him, you can know that you are a child of God and on your way to heaven. Now that you are on your way to heaven, you should attend a bible believing church and follow in baptism.
..
Realitybites said:
Christ is Risen!
A blessed Pascha to you all.
LIB,MR BEARS said:
A short video that explains things nicely
Coke Bear said:How do you know that your interpretation of Scripture is proper?xfrodobagginsx said:They aren't tactics, it's proper interpretation of Scripture. Many have been brought to Christ through the Scriptures being presented in proper context. Just believe the Scripture:Oldbear83 said:
Again, Frodo, how many have you brought to Christ using your tactics?
Ro 11:6 And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
Are you an infallible man?
P.S. It's late and I'm tired. I'll respond to your other post Monday or Tuesday.
LIB,MR BEARS said:
As much as I can tell from a message board that allows us to hide behind screen names, Frodo, Coke and 83 all seem to be good, strong, Christians. So, what does this thread look like to the non-Christian?
(In my deepest Steve Brown voice) You think about that.
Oldbear83 said:
I believe every word said by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Claims from Paul, various Popes and Ministers, and our friend Frodo, not without corroborating it with what Christ said.
Aliceinbubbleland said:
Some of you are in for a very big surprise
Sam Lowry said:
I'd be in heaven right now if this thread would go away.
Oldbear83 said:
I put it plainly: If Christ did not say it in the four Gospel accounts, it is not of Christ.
Even Paul cannot override Christ.
xfrodobagginsx said:Oldbear83 said:
I believe every word said by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Claims from Paul, various Popes and Ministers, and our friend Frodo, not without corroborating it with what Christ said.
The Big issue for you is that God gave Paul his Doctrine. The ascended Lord, Jesus gave it to him.. Paul's writings are for the Church, today. Our Lord Jesus Christ Ministered to the Jews only with few exceptions.
Realitybites said:xfrodobagginsx said:Oldbear83 said:
I believe every word said by our Lord Jesus Christ,
Claims from Paul, various Popes and Ministers, and our friend Frodo, not without corroborating it with what Christ said.
The Big issue for you is that God gave Paul his Doctrine. The ascended Lord, Jesus gave it to him.. Paul's writings are for the Church, today. Our Lord Jesus Christ Ministered to the Jews only with few exceptions.
As I've said, any Christian - lay or preacher - that tosses the Gospels and keeps the Epistles is a heretic with a capital H. There are two heretical roads to turn down: moral heresy that attempts to overthrow the consistent moral path set forth in the Didache and Scripture, and doctrinal heresy that attempts to wrongly divide the word of truth, abandons apostolic teaching, denies the trinity, etc. Don't be either of those guys.
Oldbear83 said:
Again, Frodo, how many have you brought to Christ using your tactics?
LIB,MR BEARS said:xfrodobagginsx said:Who is Mr Green Jeans?LIB,MR BEARS said:Oldbear83 said:Well, so far as I can tell, none of us is an ordained minister and this is a Politics, Religion and Shout-at-the-Clouds forum, so I think non-Christians would recognize this thread is a bunch of guys with more free time than intellect splitting a few hairs for the sake of conversation.LIB,MR BEARS said:
As much as I can tell from a message board that allows us to hide behind screen names, Frodo, Coke and 83 all seem to be good, strong, Christians. So, what does this thread look like to the non-Christian?
(In my deepest Steve Brown voice) You think about that.
(in my most mellow Fred Rogers voice) Hope you are having a good day, neighbor.
lol ( like Mr Greenjeans )
Somebody throws Fred Rogers at me, they better be ready for Mr Green jeans
https://www.google.com/search?q=mr+green+jeans&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari
Oldbear83 said:
Jesus plainly warned that some would fall away, and Scripture has accounts of believers who later fell to sin.
What would you do to prevent their loss?
What would you say caused their fall?
Realitybites said:
Christ is Risen!
A blessed Pascha to you all.
Oldbear83 said:
I put it plainly: If Christ did not say it in the four Gospel accounts, it is not of Christ.
Even Paul cannot override Christ.
Oldbear83 said:
Anyone who ignores Christ's word does not follow Christ.
Paul said the same, by the way.
Oldbear83 said:
Jesus plainly warned that some would fall away, and Scripture has accounts of believers who later fell to sin.
What would you do to prevent their loss?
What would you say caused their fall?
