With our insane level of debt, literally the largest ever in history, the only "sweet spot" on debt is zero!

Realistically, the debt should be lowered enough so that the interest in the debt is not the largest annual expense or even close. However, the first step is to keep it from growing. That will require a sustained balanced budget. Then we can start paying it down to something approaching sanity.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Flbear:

1. Do u think we need to get a balanced budget?
2. Do you think we need to start reducing the National Debt?
3. If so to either / both: How?

---

Yes. We do. But the answer is not cutting for the sake of cutting. How many of Musks Federal Grants do you think will be determined to be "Not Efficient"?

Let me ask you this, is LA worth it the 700k saved to not do the proper maintenance? Is NOLA worth it? The gates that are supposed to block cars during events didn't operate, why wasn't that known before New Year's Eve. At what cost do we cut back services? After all public service workers are lazy felons that should be in jail for stealing from hard working upstanding people like you and these Board members, right? All Government workers are lazy? Stealing from the hard working Developers, Attorneys and Accountants sitting on their asses while these guys are working in crashes, traffic, wastewater, high power, ports, the list goes on.

How much should be cut from forest management so you can get a bigger tax cut after your high priced tax attorney has already hid every penny? All legal, of course. Where do you draw the line? Politicians f-ed up for the part 30 years, now the people that actually keep this Nation going are going to pay. Not you investment bankers, Attorneys and Accountants, but the VA Nurses, DOT Engineers, FAA inspectors, Forest Mgt, Navigable waterways the list is long. Because Vivek, who made his money peddling drugs that don't work until he could get IPOs? What a guy. Yeah, he knows...

By the way I have worked both. I have nothing against the Private sector, I love working with them. I went to the Public side for the last 15 years of my career to actually work to make where I live better, not just ***** about it. The for 25 years were private Engineer firms around the Nation, 15 in operations (traffic ops). I have worked with these lazy f-s running out in traffic to get crap off the road so your Lexus doesn't hit it on I-15. Try that some day and tell me how lazy the CALTRANS guys in the field are. Sick of hearing you cut, cut cut Govt workers are useless *******s talking about **** you know nothing about.

Now you shoud tell me how liberal I am and a stupid Dem, right? That is the usual response.

---

If we can't cut for the sake of cutting, can we at least stop spending for the sake of spending?

Why regulators are a far bigger part of the problem than the regulated.

“The powerful California Coastal Commission engaged in naked lawfare and abuse against @ElonMusk and SpaceX because of his support for Trump. Judicial Watch is going to court to remind this agency that it is not above the law," @TomFitton (3/3). https://t.co/VvZgFcsJvc

— Judicial Watch ⚖️ (@JudicialWatch) January 13, 2025

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Flbear:

1. Do u think we need to get a balanced budget?
2. Do you think we need to start reducing the National Debt?
3. If so to either / both: How?

---

Yes. We do. But the answer is not cutting for the sake of cutting. How many of Musks Federal Grants do you think will be determined to be "Not Efficient"?

Let me ask you this, is LA worth it the 700k saved to not do the proper maintenance? Is NOLA worth it? The gates that are supposed to block cars during events didn't operate, why wasn't that known before New Year's Eve. At what cost do we cut back services? After all public service workers are lazy felons that should be in jail for stealing from hard working upstanding people like you and these Board members, right? All Government workers are lazy? Stealing from the hard working Developers, Attorneys and Accountants sitting on their asses while these guys are working in crashes, traffic, wastewater, high power, ports, the list goes on.

How much should be cut from forest management so you can get a bigger tax cut after your high priced tax attorney has already hid every penny? All legal, of course. Where do you draw the line? Politicians f-ed up for the part 30 years, now the people that actually keep this Nation going are going to pay. Not you investment bankers, Attorneys and Accountants, but the VA Nurses, DOT Engineers, FAA inspectors, Forest Mgt, Navigable waterways the list is long. Because Vivek, who made his money peddling drugs that don't work until he could get IPOs? What a guy. Yeah, he knows...

By the way I have worked both. I have nothing against the Private sector, I love working with them. I went to the Public side for the last 15 years of my career to actually work to make where I live better, not just ***** about it. The for 25 years were private Engineer firms around the Nation, 15 in operations (traffic ops). I have worked with these lazy f-s running out in traffic to get crap off the road so your Lexus doesn't hit it on I-15. Try that some day and tell me how lazy the CALTRANS guys in the field are. Sick of hearing you cut, cut cut Govt workers are useless *******s talking about **** you know nothing about.

Now you shoud tell me how liberal I am and a stupid Dem, right? That is the usual response.

---

If we can't cut for the sake of cutting, can we at least stop spending for the sake of spending?

---

We agree. It has to tied to a Balanced Budget Amendment that does not LET them spend more.

Not spending more, at least to me, is more realistic. Cut the stuff that Musk and Vivek mentioned earlier, like the funded programs that are slipping through. There was a great article on 6 or so items that should be cut. Some interesting things, but this list is a far cry from the Billionaires Club they are putting together.

So, we agree stop spending growth. Second, grow the economy so the debt levels we are at now represent about 75% of GDP, not 121%

What will cutting dept of energy and dept of education as well as all subsidies do?

(As well as freeze spending increases across the board and a balanced budget.)

Married A Horn said:

---

What will cutting dept of energy and dept of education as well as all subsidies do?

(As well as freeze spending increases across the board and a balanced budget.)

---

To be honest, I don't know. I have not seen any analysis besides rhetoric about test scores, so I really have no answer. If it does happen, I would like to see the States involved as they will have to figure out how to make up the Federal dollars and other programs. (Not saying it is bad or not doable, just don't leave you local ISD holding the bag).

As for Energy, I really do not know what they do! I always put them with Nuclear Power! So, I would be curious.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Flbear:

1. Do u think we need to get a balanced budget?
2. Do you think we need to start reducing the National Debt?
3. If so to either / both: How?

---

Yes. We do. But the answer is not cutting for the sake of cutting. How many of Musks Federal Grants do you think will be determined to be "Not Efficient"?

Let me ask you this, is LA worth it the 700k saved to not do the proper maintenance? Is NOLA worth it? The gates that are supposed to block cars during events didn't operate, why wasn't that known before New Year's Eve. At what cost do we cut back services? After all public service workers are lazy felons that should be in jail for stealing from hard working upstanding people like you and these Board members, right? All Government workers are lazy? Stealing from the hard working Developers, Attorneys and Accountants sitting on their asses while these guys are working in crashes, traffic, wastewater, high power, ports, the list goes on.

How much should be cut from forest management so you can get a bigger tax cut after your high priced tax attorney has already hid every penny? All legal, of course. Where do you draw the line? Politicians f-ed up for the part 30 years, now the people that actually keep this Nation going are going to pay. Not you investment bankers, Attorneys and Accountants, but the VA Nurses, DOT Engineers, FAA inspectors, Forest Mgt, Navigable waterways the list is long. Because Vivek, who made his money peddling drugs that don't work until he could get IPOs? What a guy. Yeah, he knows...

By the way I have worked both. I have nothing against the Private sector, I love working with them. I went to the Public side for the last 15 years of my career to actually work to make where I live better, not just ***** about it. The for 25 years were private Engineer firms around the Nation, 15 in operations (traffic ops). I have worked with these lazy f-s running out in traffic to get crap off the road so your Lexus doesn't hit it on I-15. Try that some day and tell me how lazy the CALTRANS guys in the field are. Sick of hearing you cut, cut cut Govt workers are useless *******s talking about **** you know nothing about.

Now you shoud tell me how liberal I am and a stupid Dem, right? That is the usual response.

---

If we can't cut for the sake of cutting, can we at least stop spending for the sake of spending?

---

We agree. It has to tied to a Balanced Budget Amendment that does not LET them spend more.

Not spending more, at least to me, is more realistic. Cut the stuff that Musk and Vivek mentioned earlier, like the funded programs that are slipping through. There was a great article on 6 or so items that should be cut. Some interesting things, but this list is a far cry from the Billionaires Club they are putting together.

So, we agree stop spending growth. Second, grow the economy so the debt levels we are at now represent about 75% of GDP, not 121%

---

But stopping the growth of spending is a budget cut, according to the Democrat Party.........

Audit the entire social security, medicare and medicaid systems. I bet you find close to a trillion in waste, fraud and abuse just there. Freeze defense spending at the level that it is. Stop all money to Israel and Ukraine. Then go from there and eliminate many departments such as Epa, Dept of Ed, Dept of energy etc.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Married A Horn said:

---

Flbear:

1. Do u think we need to get a balanced budget?
2. Do you think we need to start reducing the National Debt?
3. If so to either / both: How?

---

Yes. We do. But the answer is not cutting for the sake of cutting. How many of Musks Federal Grants do you think will be determined to be "Not Efficient"?

Let me ask you this, is LA worth it the 700k saved to not do the proper maintenance? Is NOLA worth it? The gates that are supposed to block cars during events didn't operate, why wasn't that known before New Year's Eve. At what cost do we cut back services? After all public service workers are lazy felons that should be in jail for stealing from hard working upstanding people like you and these Board members, right? All Government workers are lazy? Stealing from the hard working Developers, Attorneys and Accountants sitting on their asses while these guys are working in crashes, traffic, wastewater, high power, ports, the list goes on.

How much should be cut from forest management so you can get a bigger tax cut after your high priced tax attorney has already hid every penny? All legal, of course. Where do you draw the line? Politicians f-ed up for the part 30 years, now the people that actually keep this Nation going are going to pay. Not you investment bankers, Attorneys and Accountants, but the VA Nurses, DOT Engineers, FAA inspectors, Forest Mgt, Navigable waterways the list is long. Because Vivek, who made his money peddling drugs that don't work until he could get IPOs? What a guy. Yeah, he knows...

By the way I have worked both. I have nothing against the Private sector, I love working with them. I went to the Public side for the last 15 years of my career to actually work to make where I live better, not just ***** about it. The for 25 years were private Engineer firms around the Nation, 15 in operations (traffic ops). I have worked with these lazy f-s running out in traffic to get crap off the road so your Lexus doesn't hit it on I-15. Try that some day and tell me how lazy the CALTRANS guys in the field are. Sick of hearing you cut, cut cut Govt workers are useless *******s talking about **** you know nothing about.

Now you shoud tell me how liberal I am and a stupid Dem, right? That is the usual response.

---

If we can't cut for the sake of cutting, can we at least stop spending for the sake of spending?

---

We agree. It has to tied to a Balanced Budget Amendment that does not LET them spend more.

Not spending more, at least to me, is more realistic. Cut the stuff that Musk and Vivek mentioned earlier, like the funded programs that are slipping through. There was a great article on 6 or so items that should be cut. Some interesting things, but this list is a far cry from the Billionaires Club they are putting together.

So, we agree stop spending growth. Second, grow the economy so the debt levels we are at now represent about 75% of GDP, not 121%

---

But stopping the growth of spending is a budget cut, according to the Democrat Party.........

---

I know it is vogue to say I am a Dem, but I am not. I do not care what the Democratic or GOP say, my opinions are my opinions based on experience and observations. I am all for some MAGA, just like I am for some Dem. I went Independent a long time ago.

As for what you said, that is true. That has to change. We cannot tax our way out of this mess, we cannot just grow our way out, there will have to be a combination of cutting, maintaining spending AND growth. It just can't be knee jerk or self-serving (Musk concern).

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

Problem is, you are not in the middle. Saying so does not make it so.

historian said:

---

With our insane level of debt, literally the largest ever in history, the only "sweet spot" on debt is zero!

Realistically, the debt should be lowered enough so that the interest in the debt is not the largest annual expense or even close. However, the first step is to keep it from growing. That will require a sustained balanced budget. Then we can start paying it down to something approaching sanity.

---

What is the path to a balanced budget?

Waco1947 said:

---

historian said:

---

With our insane level of debt, literally the largest ever in history, the only "sweet spot" on debt is zero!

Realistically, the debt should be lowered enough so that the interest in the debt is not the largest annual expense or even close. However, the first step is to keep it from growing. That will require a sustained balanced budget. Then we can start paying it down to something approaching sanity.

---

What is the path to a balanced budget?

---

pic.twitter.com/mKGOVwJDLR

— Red Wave LLC (@RedWaveLLC) January 14, 2025

BREAKING: Elon Musk reportedly set to have office space in the White House complex, per MSNBC.

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) January 14, 2025

Obviously, cut spending dramatically.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Problem is, you are not in the middle. Saying so does not make it so.

---

Yawn.

historian said:

---

Obviously, cut spending dramatically.

---

We can get about 1/4 of the way there with the stuff already identified by GAO and the Musk/Vivek article. Then it will come down to discretionary spending, about 1.7T.





So, to get on the path, we are talking either cutting defense, cutting Fed services and transferring to State responsibility or ? It is not a quick fix, there are ramifications to any action. If they can get done what just the waste (the stuff that is not being used or exist anymore), that would be a start.

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

---

can a moderate be a zealot?

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

---

can a moderate be a zealot?

---

A self-proclaimed moderate? Absolutely. See, eg, some of the Never Trumpers.

This thing ain't two dimensional anyway. Not even close.

President-elect Donald Trump is encouraging Vivek Ramaswamy to take the Ohio Senate seat vacated by JD Vance's departure, per WaPo

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) January 15, 2025

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if…

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 26, 2024

He cant celebrate the jock so he will be in attendance at the Ohio St math computing contest. Vivek doesnt like our American culture.

muddybrazos said:

---

The reason top tech companies often hire foreign-born & first-generation engineers over “native” Americans isn’t because of an innate American IQ deficit (a lazy & wrong explanation). A key part of it comes down to the c-word: culture. Tough questions demand tough answers & if…

— Vivek Ramaswamy (@VivekGRamaswamy) December 26, 2024

---

Damn but 'Whiplash' was good

historian said:

---

Obviously, cut spending dramatically.

---

In fiscal year 2024, the US government collected $4.92 trillion in revenue. This was $479 billion more than the previous year. However, the government spent $6.75 trillion, resulting in a deficit of $1.83 trillion.
Where would you sugget cutting to get to 1.83 Trillion?

It will take time and require drastic action. Honestly, the entire budget process needs to be reformed. No more automatic increases. But that's just the first step.

Actually, the first step for Congress is to acknowledge the problem snd commit to finding a solution. Right now we are on the path to national bankruptcy & destruction. Maybe that's what the fascists want. It certainly seems to be since they have been hell-bent on creating as much chaos as possible, especially under Obama 1.0 & 2.0 (Biden).

historian said:

---

It will take time and require drastic action. Honestly, the entire budget process needs to be reformed. No more automatic increases. But that's just the first step.

Actually, the first step for Congress is to acknowledge the problem snd commit to finding a solution. Right now we are on the path to national bankruptcy & destruction. Maybe that's what the fascists want. It certainly seems to be since they have been hell-bent on creating as much chaos as possible, especially under Obama 1.0 & 2.0 (Biden).

---

Bush 2.0 and Trump 1.0 cut taxes hence cut revenue and kept on spending and ballooned the debt and deficit

Yeah. He needs to cut it this time round.

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

---

can a moderate be a zealot?

---

Yes, passionately in the middle.

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

---

can a moderate be a zealot?

---

Yes, passionately in the middle.

---

Imagine going through life with no moral compass or deeply held beliefs

Just endlessly embracing a position in the middle of every issue because it seems safe and people will think you are a good person….

Assassin said:

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Redbrickbear said:

---

DOGE is reportedly considering cutting DEI programs, which could save an estimated $125 billion a year.

This is the easiest no-brainer of anything in the federal government. I’d be surprised if they didn’t do it. pic.twitter.com/NJVNJsveBT

— Richard Hanania (@RichardHanania) January 16, 2025

---

Absolutely! Hiring unqualified folks based on race or sex is ridiculous. Hire on merit, regardless of sex or race

---

FIFY

Redbrickbear said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

whiterock said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

historian said:

---

I don't know where you get the idea that I'm anti-Federalist because I'm not. The govt can set reasonable standards, even in the modern era, without providing all the basic services (utilities, transportation, internet, etc) or micromanaging them. Government does NOT need to be a huge leviathan righ millions of employees, thousands of pages of regulations, huge bloated multi-trillion dollar trillion budgets, and an oppressive debt threatening to destroy the country.

You seem to think that it's a choice between radical extremes. I think there is a happy medium that allows the people to have our basic freedoms.

Government is still a necessary evil and the larger it gets the more tyrannical & oppressive it becomes.

---

We agree, especially when zealots get in charge. My point is that it is a threat from both sides and when being in the middle is considered a bad thing warning bells go off...

---

can a moderate be a zealot?

---

Yes, passionately in the middle.

---

Imagine going through life with no moral compass or deeply held beliefs

Just endlessly embracing a position in the middle of every issue because it seems safe and people will think you are a good person….

---

A virtue signaling zealot?

IMMIGRATION: Amazon has nearly 5,500 H-1B job openings with a median salary of $153,700.

Millions of Americans are struggling to find employment, yet the largest companies in the US specifically hire foreigners for these positions. pic.twitter.com/J0doRazsdA

— Dominic Michael Tripi (@DMichaelTripi) January 17, 2025

People's recent beef with Vivek aside I think he could be great. Everyone can learn/change.

But I think he needs to prove he can walk the walk, not just talk the talk, before running seriously for pres. I hope he gets this, and then we will see his true colors.

— Cynical Optimist (@ChemPhysMajor) January 17, 2025