FLBear5630 said:

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Forest Bueller III said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

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Amen.

There is one name under heaven by which we are saved. That name is Jesus Christ.

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Agree. I would be surprised if any Catholic says different.

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I agree with you. My brother converted to Catholic when he married, they go to Church/Mass every week. They would agree Jesus is above all.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

---

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.

So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?

---

Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.

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Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.

Thanks in advance.

---

Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.

---

Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.

---

Tell you what, if you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as God when you said, "Imagine willfully not trying to honor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then you could explain what you meant, because that's how any reasonable person (and every person on this thread) took it.

But we all know you would rather be vague and ambiguous.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

So in none of these verses does scripture describe Mary as queen, much less say she should be honored on equal footing with the lord.

You're just making crap up at this point. It's kind of evil what you're doing actually.

---

Oops. And defeat has been ceded once one goes "ummm youre kinda evil" lmao and "ummm youre bad at debate" but with zero response as always. Youre being lapped.

---

That's how you respond to absurd, specious and biblically-unsupported positions.

I am sorry if that hurt your feelings. Kinda.

Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Ah, more lies/insults/condescension from our resident Caiaphas.

The Lord will prevail, nonetheless.

---

From the guy or gal name calling someone "son".

Blind angry old fool it appears. Keep up the name calling though. Winning arguments there. Once one has lost the name calling begins

---

Ohhhhhhhh, the irony here.

Sorry you don't like being referred to as 'son'. Where I come from, when you call someone 'son', you are noting errors because of their youth or lack of perspective.

And son, if that is not your problem, you are certainly in greater peril.

That's not name-calling, that's the warning Jesus gave us all.

ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.

---

Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...

---

It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22

---

Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.

It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2

---

Or maybe you can take Catholics at their word that they don't worship Mary as you say they do. I do not tell you what your believes are and how wrong they are.

---

I'm only judging by your actions.
You pray to Mary. You sing songs of praise & worship to her. You build shrines, altars & churches in her name. You have specific celebrations for her. You give her unbiblical titles & authority.

I have heard you say that Catholics don't worship Mary, but then I have observed that Catholics do worship her.
Your terminology does not negate your actions. Say what you want but your actions speak far louder than your words.

---

Hmmm. So, the TV preachers guilting old people to sign over their money in the name of tithing and scripture represent all Baptists. You are being judged because of their interpretation of scripture and actions?

Yeah, there are some Catholics committing sins by taking it too far, just as there are a lot of Protestants with planks in their eyes. After all, sins are sins. There is no hierarchy of sins, so when Mathew says not to judge, lest you will be judged, judging is as bad as those misguided Mary worshipers.

But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?

ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.

---

Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...

---

It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22

---

Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.

It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2

---

Don't recall a mention in that verse of pagans but you do you big guy

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

FLBear5630 said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

BUDOS said:

---

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.

So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?

---

Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.

---

Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.

Thanks in advance.

---

Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.

---

Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.

---

Tell you what, if you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as God when you said, "Imagine willfully not trying to honor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then you could explain what you meant, because that's how any reasonable person (and every person on this thread) took it.

But we all know you would rather be vague and ambiguous.

---

Tell you what, i never state something other than what i mean to state. Youre clearly reading it wrong. If you cant find the right way to read it thats on you. Plus many Catholics have already corrected you here in this thread about it so we could move on from your misread. We cant teach always to the slowest in the class. Me thinks youre just being silly on purpose.

Will. Not. Play.

Oldbear83 said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Ah, more lies/insults/condescension from our resident Caiaphas.

The Lord will prevail, nonetheless.

---

From the guy or gal name calling someone "son".

Blind angry old fool it appears. Keep up the name calling though. Winning arguments there. Once one has lost the name calling begins

---

Ohhhhhhhh, the irony here.

Sorry you don't like being referred to as 'son'. Where I come from, when you call someone 'son', you are noting errors because of their youth or lack of perspective.

And son, if that is not your problem, you are certainly in greater peril.

That's not name-calling, that's the warning Jesus gave us all.

---

Okey doke. Anyway.

There are over 100 Eucharitic Miracies, and they’re documented on Carlo Acutis' website.

It took me a long time to truly understand and believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, but learning about these miracles has made it evident.

(Gabscipp on IG) pic.twitter.com/pgHvNmLByn

— Cedars and Saints🇻🇦 (@CedarsAndSaints) January 12, 2026

FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.

---

Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...

---

It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22

---

Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.

It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2

---

Or maybe you can take Catholics at their word that they don't worship Mary as you say they do. I do not tell you what your believes are and how wrong they are.

---

I'm only judging by your actions.
You pray to Mary. You sing songs of praise & worship to her. You build shrines, altars & churches in her name. You have specific celebrations for her. You give her unbiblical titles & authority.

I have heard you say that Catholics don't worship Mary, but then I have observed that Catholics do worship her.
Your terminology does not negate your actions. Say what you want but your actions speak far louder than your words.

---

Hmmm. So, the TV preachers guilting old people to sign over their money in the name of tithing and scripture represent all Baptists. You are being judged because of their interpretation of scripture and actions?

Yeah, there are some Catholics committing sins by taking it too far, just as there are a lot of Protestants with planks in their eyes. After all, sins are sins. There is no hierarchy of sins, so when Mathew says not to judge, lest you will be judged, judging is as bad as those misguided Mary worshipers.

But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?

---

I agree with most of this other than there are venial and mortal sins as backed up by scripture but i know you know that.

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols? Why are men claiming they're truly women and vice versa?

Sin is universal, but it's becoming justified on our soil. The worst part is that it's systematized, commercialized, celebrated, and defended as virtues.

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

Fre3dombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

---

I think what's unique is that we sell sin as virtue. We no longer ask for forgiveness, we seek validation.

Never before has abortion been sold as a right and empowerment for women for example.

Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.

So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?

---

Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.

---

Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.

Thanks in advance.

---

Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.

---

Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.

---

Tell you what, if you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as God when you said, "Imagine willfully not trying to honor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then you could explain what you meant, because that's how any reasonable person (and every person on this thread) took it.

But we all know you would rather be vague and ambiguous.

---

Tell you what, i never state something other than what i mean to state. Youre clearly reading it wrong. If you cant find the right way to read it thats on you. Plus many Catholics have already corrected you here in this thread about it so we could move on from your misread. We cant teach always to the slowest in the class. Me thinks youre just being silly on purpose.

Will. Not. Play.

---

Of course. A non-answer followed by a personal attack. As predictable as the sunrise.

I get it if you didn't mean to say that Mary should be honored "as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," but you said it. Best to just admit your error instead of digging the hole deeper. But of course, we know you are unable to do that. Too prideful.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

---

I think what's unique is that we sell sin as virtue. We no longer ask for forgiveness, we seek validation.

Never before has abortion been sold as a right and empowerment for women for example.

---

Who is "we"?

Fre3dombear said:

---

There are over 100 Eucharitic Miracies, and they’re documented on Carlo Acutis' website.

It took me a long time to truly understand and believe that Christ is truly present in the Eucharist, but learning about these miracles has made it evident.

(Gabscipp on IG) pic.twitter.com/pgHvNmLByn

— Cedars and Saints🇻🇦 (@CedarsAndSaints) January 12, 2026

---

LOL. SMH.

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

---

I think what's unique is that we sell sin as virtue. We no longer ask for forgiveness, we seek validation.

Never before has abortion been sold as a right and empowerment for women for example.

---

Who is "we"?

---

Society at large

Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.

---

Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...

---

It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22

---

Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.

It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2

---

Or maybe you can take Catholics at their word that they don't worship Mary as you say they do. I do not tell you what your believes are and how wrong they are.

---

I'm only judging by your actions.
You pray to Mary. You sing songs of praise & worship to her. You build shrines, altars & churches in her name. You have specific celebrations for her. You give her unbiblical titles & authority.

I have heard you say that Catholics don't worship Mary, but then I have observed that Catholics do worship her.
Your terminology does not negate your actions. Say what you want but your actions speak far louder than your words.

---

Hmmm. So, the TV preachers guilting old people to sign over their money in the name of tithing and scripture represent all Baptists. You are being judged because of their interpretation of scripture and actions?

Yeah, there are some Catholics committing sins by taking it too far, just as there are a lot of Protestants with planks in their eyes. After all, sins are sins. There is no hierarchy of sins, so when Mathew says not to judge, lest you will be judged, judging is as bad as those misguided Mary worshipers.

But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?

---

there are venial and mortal sins as backed up by scripture but i know you know that.

---

Nope. There is no such thing, and no scripture supports that position. This is you once again making things up.

Doc Holliday said:

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Mothra said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

---

I think what's unique is that we sell sin as virtue. We no longer ask for forgiveness, we seek validation.

Never before has abortion been sold as a right and empowerment for women for example.

---

Who is "we"?

---

Society at large

---

Got it. Thanks.

We are in agreement here. And we know that some denominations do this as well. The Presbyterian Church where my wife grew up has turned into a queer friendly church. Has rainbows and homosexual symbols all over.

2 Tim 4:3 comes to mind.

Pretty bad comparison.
The worship of Mary is practiced & taught by the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church. A very simple Google search will show dozens of images of Popes, Cardinals and other RC leaders kissing the feet of the graven images of Mary. You can also find plenty of images of them laying flowers on her alter or at her feet as an offering. You can also find dozens of prayers to her entrusting the church to her, thanking her for salvation, asking her for the dispensing of Grace, asking her for blessings & healing, etc.
I would love for you to find any teaching or statements by Baptist leadership that encourages or defends the scamming of the elderly by TV evangelists. You won't find it because the Baptist are among the first to condemn these evil practices. They follow the teachings of the Bible which warn us about such false teachers who are motivated by greed. Meanwhile the idolatry practices are taught, encouraged, and modeled by the Popes and other leaders in the Vatican.
There are no true Christians who teach what you stated here: " But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?"
That is a direct violation of scripture. Since we believe in Sola Scriptura, no true Christian would ever teach such heretical nonsense.

Oldbear,
Yes we do. The briefly stated points about the our beliefs are stated on our website at cccmonett.org.

As a small nondenominational Christian church we have no formal national organization telling us what we can cannot do. We are led by a group of elders who are voted on by the congregation. After Covid we almost folded; however, we have slowly grown since.

BUDOS said:

---

Oldbear,
Yes we do. The briefly stated points about the our beliefs are stated on our website at cccmonett.org.

As a small nondenominational Christian church we have no formal national organization telling us what we can cannot do. We are led by a group of elders who are voted on by the congregation. After Covid we almost folded; however, we have slowly grown since.

---

Thanks BUDOS, that's my kind of church. I was baptized at Calvary Baptist in Waco way back when, and one thing I loved about that church is that the congregation votes on everything. I remember one funny debate when the congregation voted to raise the pastor's salary, he declined to accept it, and was told by more than one deacon that he had turned down the last two raises and they would not let him do it three times in a row.

The Lord's Spirit was clearly present there, and it's sort of the standard I apply now when thinking about whether this place or that is truly where the Lord feels worshipped and served.

Thanks again.

Forest Bueller III said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Forest Bueller III said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Amen.

There is one name under heaven by which we are saved. That name is Jesus Christ.

---

Agree. I would be surprised if any Catholic says different.

---

I agree with you. My brother converted to Catholic when he married, they go to Church/Mass every week. They would agree Jesus is above all.

---

But that statement "Jesus is above all" needs to be qualified, doesn't it? For instance, if a man has 100 mistresses, he can consider his wife to still be "above all" of them. But would that really make what he's doing right and good, especially in the wife's eyes?

Doc Holliday said:

---

Fre3dombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Random question…why is America uniquely sinful?

It gave rise to Hollywood and the porn industry. The most morbidly obese and gluttonous country on the planet. Why is the culture obsessed with keeping up with appearances and looking wealthy? Why is child trafficking in the multi hundreds of thousands? How did we end up with multi millions of abortions? Why do we have a city nicknamed "sin city"? Why do we make celebrities and athletes idols?

Our nation overwhelmingly lacks Christ. Why is that the case?

---

American failures abound but wouldnt call it uniquely sinful. Doesnt seem much unique about it . Voting Democrat plays a huge part in all that you wrote.

---

I think what's unique is that we sell sin as virtue. We no longer ask for forgiveness, we seek validation.

Never before has abortion been sold as a right and empowerment for women for example.

---

Having been all over the planet, its even worse in europe etc but our platform is much larger no doubt

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.

So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?

---

Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.

---

Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.

Thanks in advance.

---

Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.

---

Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.

---

Tell you what, if you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as God when you said, "Imagine willfully not trying to honor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then you could explain what you meant, because that's how any reasonable person (and every person on this thread) took it.

But we all know you would rather be vague and ambiguous.

---

Tell you what, i never state something other than what i mean to state. Youre clearly reading it wrong. If you cant find the right way to read it thats on you. Plus many Catholics have already corrected you here in this thread about it so we could move on from your misread. We cant teach always to the slowest in the class. Me thinks youre just being silly on purpose.

Will. Not. Play.

---

Of course. A non-answer followed by a personal attack. As predictable as the sunrise.

I get it if you didn't mean to say that Mary should be honored "as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," but you said it. Best to just admit your error instead of digging the hole deeper. But of course, we know you are unable to do that. Too prideful.

---

Personal attack? Did i accidentally drop the esteemed and highly intellectual argument ender of "son"?

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

My understanding was from the Annunciation Narrative in Luke. Gabriel telling Mary her son would be King.

So, I guess my question is what do you call the Mother of a King?

---

Queen mother? Don't know but what I do know is God didn't ornate her a queen, and he certainly didn't say she's worthy of the same veneration as himself, as the OP has argued on this thread.

---

Another lie or ignorance. Ive never said Mary deserves same veneretion as God. Prove that please.

Thanks in advance.

---

Um, you do remember the title of your thread do you not? "Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ."

If you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as our Lord, you should'nt have said it. But you are an awful communicator.

---

Read it again. This time without projecting your stubborn strong bias into it and report back.

---

Tell you what, if you didn't mean to suggest that Mary should be honored as much as God when you said, "Imagine willfully not trying to honor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," then you could explain what you meant, because that's how any reasonable person (and every person on this thread) took it.

But we all know you would rather be vague and ambiguous.

---

Tell you what, i never state something other than what i mean to state. Youre clearly reading it wrong. If you cant find the right way to read it thats on you. Plus many Catholics have already corrected you here in this thread about it so we could move on from your misread. We cant teach always to the slowest in the class. Me thinks youre just being silly on purpose.

Will. Not. Play.

---

Of course. A non-answer followed by a personal attack. As predictable as the sunrise.

I get it if you didn't mean to say that Mary should be honored "as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ," but you said it. Best to just admit your error instead of digging the hole deeper. But of course, we know you are unable to do that. Too prideful.

---

I said it and ill say it again. If you still cant figure out what youre missing ask your daddy roun here callin erryone son and he can splain it to yas

Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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ShooterTX said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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Mothra said:

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Fre3dombear said:

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BUDOS said:

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Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord.

Mary, like some others in the Bible, and perhaps some others, may deserve special recognition for their contributions to the Lord's work. However, only one is sitting at the right hand of God.

---

Yep and only one is the Queen

---

Sorry there is no queen. There is no throne for Mary.

Any belief otherwise is unbiblical.

---

You really should read again. incompetent or lying? You choose

---

I'm not sure what you're referring but I've stopped trying to make logical sense out of your posts. You're about as clear as mud - intentionally so, it would appear.

---

Nope. Its right there for you to read. Ive shown you many many times. You just say nuh uh. Same as it ever was.

---

And you likewise say crap like this all the time, claiming you've shown evidence or scriptural support for a position that everyone is ignoring, when the truth is your claims are always specious, baseless and unsupported.

I promise you, if you could actually present valid evidence in support of your baseless opinions, I'd stop saying "nuh uh." When you make a claim, it is your burden to prove it with evidence.

I suspect the response to this will once again be, "But I have shown evidence" - yet another one of your many false assertions.

---

Well you see ive already responded and always give chapter and verse. Its you denying those chapter and verses. Its just tiring and boring and circular. Its not my job toake you believe. I can only present facts. Then Faith has to do its part.

. This ones super easy but since youre either lazy or not genuine ill put it on the spoon for ya:

Thessalonians 2:14 (context from verses 1415):
"Therefore, brethren, stand fast; and hold the traditions which you have learned, whether by word, or by our epistle. Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God and our Father, who hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation, and good hope in grace..."

This verse refers to holding both written (epistle/Scripture) and oral (by word) apostolic traditions.

Im sure you can search all the times ive already posted on it.

---

Do you remember the subject of this particular discussion? It appears not. Let me remind you.

You made the assertion that Mary is "queen." I said there's no scriptural support for your position. And you went off on a tangent, as you always do, apparently claiming that position was biblical. Is this the verse you allege supports your position that Mary is "queen"? A verse in which Paul talks specifically to the Thessalonians about the traditions that have been taught in the Thessalonian church? Is it your position that the Thessalonians taught that Mary was "queen"?

---

Of course rhats not what happened as you always change your story when met with facts. Mary is referenced in revelation obviously and of course David's mom as tie in to how the mother of
the king is referred to simpol.

Just more scripture to consider.

---

As usual you can't communicate a coherent thought.

I have no idea what you are saying. All i know is you failed to answer some pretty simple questions. If you get brave enough to do so let me know

---

You scared. Deflect deflect. As always. Why its your MO nobody knows.

---

Tell you what, just for my own amusement, I'll try this one more time. Please cite the specific verses in scripture wherein Mary is referred to or given the position of queen. And to be clear, I am not referring to Paul's statement to the Thessalonians about their specific traditions or some other circular type of argument which you will use try and say all Catholic beliefs are valid because of "tradition." I would like a verse which specifically states or suggests Mary is queen, and must be honored as such.

Thanks in advance.

---

Are you not entertained? I know i am as the pretzels knot up here on the daily spinning yourselves in confusion.

You spoke of not believing in tradition. I addressed, as i always do, with chapter and verse.

Then you say "i wasnt speaking of tradition"

Deflect ^3


Now you ask a new question so here is one of many many answers

Revelation 12:1-5 - "A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth... She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter."

Do protestants (in general since none of yall agree on much) acknowledge Revelations? I understood yes. Who could this verse possibly he about?

Psalm 2:9 (tying OT with New)

A blocked poster on your team as i recall said mary is not even the Mother of God so obviously thats a bizarre take to be discounted but blinds many who chose to schism from Christ's church in earth. Another even said the devil created the miracle hanging in the church in Mexico City to this day. Inexplicable by any and all science the devil used it to convert billions if souls over 500 years. Sound argument there

Anyway, 2 verses. Ive explained it to someone that also you have said many times that you refuse any belief in tradition yet you are called to acknowledge tradition explicitly in the scriptura you oddly (kinda) sola except the parts that neuter your own beliefs.

---

I don't agree with the "devil created a miracle" comments.... but it's funny that you cannot see the logic in the devil creating a false sign in order to convert millions into a false religion that worships a human woman.
The entire lady of Guadalupe incident was not a miracle of God. There is no way that God would command His people to build a shrine to a human woman, and dedicate their lives to her.
Maybe it was created by the devil, but most likely it was created by a man who was struggling to bring converts into his Catholic religion.
It's not like Catholics haven't adopted local pagan religions in the past, in order to make it easier for people to "convert" to Catholicism. It's happened many times throughout history. But I'm sure the nuns never told you about it.

---

Of course they taught about it. Read anything on the Jesuits. The point was to bring the message to the rest of the world. You speak their language so they understand and learn. Using what they had is a natural technique. We saw how well the Crusades and Inquisition worked, give me using a Christmas Tree...

---

It's like Protestants dont know 1 Cor 9:22

---

Yeah, that is the only defense I have ever seen for the RC to adopt pagan religions into the RC practices. That is a terrible interpretation of that verse. Paul was not saying that to win over pagans, he became a practicing pagan.... but that appears to be the way the magisterium interpret it.

It's like Catholics have never read Romans 12:2

---

Or maybe you can take Catholics at their word that they don't worship Mary as you say they do. I do not tell you what your believes are and how wrong they are.

---

I'm only judging by your actions.
You pray to Mary. You sing songs of praise & worship to her. You build shrines, altars & churches in her name. You have specific celebrations for her. You give her unbiblical titles & authority.

I have heard you say that Catholics don't worship Mary, but then I have observed that Catholics do worship her.
Your terminology does not negate your actions. Say what you want but your actions speak far louder than your words.

---

Hmmm. So, the TV preachers guilting old people to sign over their money in the name of tithing and scripture represent all Baptists. You are being judged because of their interpretation of scripture and actions?

Yeah, there are some Catholics committing sins by taking it too far, just as there are a lot of Protestants with planks in their eyes. After all, sins are sins. There is no hierarchy of sins, so when Mathew says not to judge, lest you will be judged, judging is as bad as those misguided Mary worshipers.

But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?

---

there are venial and mortal sins as backed up by scripture but i know you know that.

---

Nope. There is no such thing, and no scripture supports that position. This is you once again making things up.

---

Of course it does or wouldnt have existed for 2000 years in the Catholic church. Try again. Receipts already shared many times in ither threads.

Guess those unedumecTed bohunks 20 centuries ago were ruhtards and dreamed it all up.

ShooterTX said:

---

Pretty bad comparison.
The worship of Mary is practiced & taught by the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church. A very simple Google search will show dozens of images of Popes, Cardinals and other RC leaders kissing the feet of the graven images of Mary. You can also find plenty of images of them laying flowers on her alter or at her feet as an offering. You can also find dozens of prayers to her entrusting the church to her, thanking her for salvation, asking her for the dispensing of Grace, asking her for blessings & healing, etc.
I would love for you to find any teaching or statements by Baptist leadership that encourages or defends the scamming of the elderly by TV evangelists. You won't find it because the Baptist are among the first to condemn these evil practices. They follow the teachings of the Bible which warn us about such false teachers who are motivated by greed. Meanwhile the idolatry practices are taught, encouraged, and modeled by the Popes and other leaders in the Vatican.
There are no true Christians who teach what you stated here: " But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?"
That is a direct violation of scripture. Since we believe in Sola Scriptura, no true Christian would ever teach such heretical nonsense.

---

Baptist preachers are for profit type dudes right?

St Roman the Thin-Skinned: " Personal attack? Did i accidentally drop the esteemed and highly intellectual argument ender of "son"?"

'For God so love the world, that He gave His one and only [REDACTED at the complaint of Fre3dombear]'

Fre3dombear said:

---

ShooterTX said:

---

Pretty bad comparison.
The worship of Mary is practiced & taught by the leadership of the Roman Catholic Church. A very simple Google search will show dozens of images of Popes, Cardinals and other RC leaders kissing the feet of the graven images of Mary. You can also find plenty of images of them laying flowers on her alter or at her feet as an offering. You can also find dozens of prayers to her entrusting the church to her, thanking her for salvation, asking her for the dispensing of Grace, asking her for blessings & healing, etc.
I would love for you to find any teaching or statements by Baptist leadership that encourages or defends the scamming of the elderly by TV evangelists. You won't find it because the Baptist are among the first to condemn these evil practices. They follow the teachings of the Bible which warn us about such false teachers who are motivated by greed. Meanwhile the idolatry practices are taught, encouraged, and modeled by the Popes and other leaders in the Vatican.
There are no true Christians who teach what you stated here: " But, you guys don't even have to repent or try? RIght? You can say you accept Jesus as your savior and you are covered? Blank check to do what you want?"
That is a direct violation of scripture. Since we believe in Sola Scriptura, no true Christian would ever teach such heretical nonsense.

---

Baptist preachers are for profit type dudes right?

---

Pretty sure you're thinking of Joel Osteen and his ilk.

His dad is Southern Baptist, Lakewood I think. Technically Joel classifies himself as nondenominational, and in my opinion he is a bit selective in what he "preaches" and also what he leaves out; however, he is just one of too many who wanders too far from the Wordall of it.
At our church, if you don't like what he preaches, well, he didn't write it.

Oldbear83 said:

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St Roman the Thin-Skinned: " Personal attack? Did i accidentally drop the esteemed and highly intellectual argument ender of "son"?"

'For God so love the world, that He gave His one and only [REDACTED at the complaint of Fre3dombear]'

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No one has a clue what youre saying. Feel free to join the convo at any time with a coherent thought. Otherwise just your mental Masturbation taking up space with vapidness

BUDOS said:

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His dad is Southern Baptist, Lakewood I think. Technically Joel classifies himself as nondenominational, and in my opinion he is a bit selective in what he "preaches" and also what he leaves out; however, he is just one of too many who wanders too far from the Wordall of it.
At our church, if you don't like what he preaches, well, he didn't write it.

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Here's what I know about his church:

1. It says 'Lakewood Church', no mention of Christ. It has a logo of a dove, but no cross or clearly Christian symbolism. Joel Osteen's name is in 4 foot high letters on the side of the building,

2. During the 2005 Hurricane that hit Houston, Osteen lied and said the church flooded, rather than take in refugees. He backed off when TV crews showed the church in fine shape and open for business

3. The entry halls are filled with Osteen's tapes and videos for sale. Proceeds from those go to Osteen personally.

4. I worked for Reliant Energy during 2000-2009, and was in charge of charities which helped poor people with needs. Religious charities like Catholic Charities were prominent, as well as secular groups like Sheltering Arms, but Lakewood Church did not participate, as they were not listed in city, county or state records of charities assisting the needy.