All for more trade schools. Just not the Trump University kind where you get a degree that no employer respects. if you borrow to go to trade school, you should learn a trade: plumbing, electrician, mechanic, how to fix industrial chillers (there's a well-respected in my city that does that and grads make good money).beerman said:br53 said:Yea well lowering the interest on my new Tahoe doesnt do anything either but allow Chevy to keep charging 75K and I pay it cause my wife wanted it and I could afford it. Now as long as these dumbass little kids want to go to BU and UT and be teachers, underwater basket weavers and social workers let em rot in debt hell until they learn to make better decisions and get a degree worth more than the paper its printed on. I tried to help and meet in the middle but you liberal SOB's go back to blaming the businesses. Dont buy what you cant afford and dont chase an education that maxes out with income at 75k with a 200k education bill.HuMcK said:
That's just kicking the can, changing interests rates does nothing about the actual cost of education.
What HuMcK May not want to hear (and I don't know) is that perhaps not everyone should go to college. Perhaps there are alternatives like trade schools, jucos or maybe go straight into the workforce (a national apprentice program would be a good place to start). The fact is that our system of higher education has become another "not for profit-profit" model (like healthcare).
Every school you go to has gyms, multiple student activity centers, water parks, 20 cafeterias, private restaurants on campus etc etc., it's stupid. When my wife and went to Wake, Pepperdine, Smu, Tulane, Texas, Baylor, Rice, La Tech, Texas Tech, Tcu, Wichita State (I think that's all of them) with our kids for their campus visits, it was insane. They don't talk to the parents, they sell the kids and it's quite honestly embarrassing in the manner in which they go about it. They separate the prospective student at all the schools and they go see all the "fun" stuff while the parents are whisked away to meet with financial planners and start the "sales" process of "how you too can afford $300k of debt". Looking around you could just tell that the majority of the parents in the room were going to struggle to make it work.
It's a little disingenuous for anyone to suggest that republicans don't care about fixing the system that liberals have spent convincing the world over the last 50 years that "everyone deserves to be in".
Higher education isn't for everyone. There are countries like Sweden, Australia etc that have capitalist rules but zero issues with student debt. Debt isn't the problem, it's as br53s says, it's the ability, or lack there of, of the borrower's ability to pay it back that's the issue.
Student Loans
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Last: 1 yr ago by Harrison Bergeron
Never let a crisis go to waste!J.B.Katz said:jimdue said:And racking up debt at a state sponsored school in Gender Studies so you can work at Starbucks is not a rip off?J.B.Katz said:
Student debt doesn't go away if you go bankrupt.
Lots of people are going to go bankrupt during the pandemic due to circumstnaces beyond their control.
Maybe not forgive student debt but treat it the same as other debt in bankruptcy?
Going forward, I would also NOT allow government-sponsored student loans for for-profit schools like Trump U or Phoenix nor would I allow military ed benefits to go to those schools. Those are rip-offs
I'm willing to support that by letting someone who declares bankruptcy during the pandemic because he lost employment, his wife lost employment, they ended up having to file for bankruptcy, off the hook for having to repay that loan he or she took out.
I would rather have see the Feds attach strings to that money relating to how it is used by the institutions. I'm not smart enough to think up what those strings are right now on the spot, but I envision it as using the money as a hook to force some kind of responsibility/accountability on the institutions. Like how federal funds were used to set a drinking age and require DWI enforcement, or how Medicare/aid control their costs with fixed rates.
There should also be much more emphasis on trade schools and associates degrees instead of the 4yr degrees. I think you have to make some kind of structural changes, then maybe you can talk about reducing debt loads for people who got screwed by the last system.
There should also be much more emphasis on trade schools and associates degrees instead of the 4yr degrees. I think you have to make some kind of structural changes, then maybe you can talk about reducing debt loads for people who got screwed by the last system.
Yea they treat it like a time share.beerman said:br53 said:Yea well lowering the interest on my new Tahoe doesnt do anything either but allow Chevy to keep charging 75K and I pay it cause my wife wanted it and I could afford it. Now as long as these dumbass little kids want to go to BU and UT and be teachers, underwater basket weavers and social workers let em rot in debt hell until they learn to make better decisions and get a degree worth more than the paper its printed on. I tried to help and meet in the middle but you liberal SOB's go back to blaming the businesses. Dont buy what you cant afford and dont chase an education that maxes out with income at 75k with a 200k education bill.HuMcK said:
That's just kicking the can, changing interests rates does nothing about the actual cost of education.
What HuMcK May not want to hear (and I don't know) is that perhaps not everyone should go to college. Perhaps there are alternatives like trade schools, jucos or maybe go straight into the workforce (a national apprentice program would be a good place to start). The fact is that our system of higher education has become another "not for profit-profit" model (like healthcare).
Every school you go to has gyms, multiple student activity centers, water parks, 20 cafeterias, private restaurants on campus etc etc., it's stupid. When my wife and went to Wake, Pepperdine, Smu, Tulane, Texas, Baylor, Rice, La Tech, Texas Tech, Tcu, Wichita State (I think that's all of them) with our kids for their campus visits, it was insane. They don't talk to the parents, they sell the kids and it's quite honestly embarrassing in the manner in which they go about it. They separate the prospective student at all the schools and they go see all the "fun" stuff while the parents are whisked away to meet with financial planners and start the "sales" process of "how you too can afford $300k of debt". Looking around you could just tell that the majority of the parents in the room were going to struggle to make it work.
It's a little disingenuous for anyone to suggest that republicans don't care about fixing the system that liberals have spent convincing the world over the last 50 years that "everyone deserves to be in".
Higher education isn't for everyone. There are countries like Sweden, Australia etc that have capitalist rules but zero issues with student debt. Debt isn't the problem, it's as br53s says, it's the ability, or lack there of, of the borrower's ability to pay it back that's the issue.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
TSTC offers a great program for Technical and Trade type Jobs. Some of those kids come out making 60-70k with very little debt if any. Costs less to graduate from there than 1 year at BU in many cases.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
HuMcK said:
Do you think the system needs changing or not? This is what I was talking about, Dems say there's a problem, Repubs say "we won't forgive loans", Dems ask "ok then what should we do?", Repubs say "we wont forgive loans", and on and on. I have yet to hear Republicans advocate for a solution to any issue that isn't just cutting taxes or regulations in some way.
Same as the healthcare debates, Dems want to do something, Repubs don't, and that's it. An entire generation of students has loans that are non-dischargeable and are holding them (and the economy) back because of unreasonably high debt loads. And now the (older) people who were able to pay their $1500 tuition bills off in a few years are asking why the current youth are fed up with paying down $50,000 a year tuition bills. The answer is things have changed from the old days, in ways that are screwing over young people, and I just wish conservatives could recognize that.
I paid for 1.5 years at Baylor and borrowed the rest. I owed around 100,000 when I graduated. It took me 10 very long years to pay it back. School is an investment. I was banking that the cost of attending would net me more money in the long run. It was not easy to pay that back and I don't blame people who struggle with it.
1) not everyone should go to college.
2) the government should not be in the loan business for schools, the rise of tuition can be directly tied to that
3) the $1,500 tuition sounds like a good argument but it's only a good argument because people are morons; highlighting point #1. A 1965 Mustang cost around $2,500 which, adjusted for inflation is around $20k. A new 2020 Mustang starts at $26k but includes about a thousand feature that didn't exist in 1965. Tuition is more now; but the services rendered are so much more.
There is a problem; you can convince me to address the short term issues only if we are willing to address the long term issues.
Baylor is expensive. Put away rivalries and hatred toward other universities. Tell me what puts a solid well rounded Baylor grad ahead of other kids from other Texas school grads. What about the education at Baylor makes the grad more marketable than a kid from another Texas university
BornAgain said:
Baylor is expensive. Put away rivalries and hatred toward other universities. Tell me what puts a solid well rounded Baylor grad ahead of other kids from other Texas school grads. What about the education at Baylor makes the grad more marketable than a kid from another Texas university
Nothing. Cause most folks don't buy into the Christian education.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
HuMcK said:
Instead of forgiving the loans outright, I wouldn't mind a reduction back to the principal amount, essentially forgiving interest instead of the loan itself. That would help out a whole lot of people, and isn't quite the handout that loan forgiveness is.
It's should be abundantly clear to everyone that the current higher-ed model is wildly overpriced and borderline predatory (similar to healthcare). I understand if conservatives don't want to pay off loans for people, but something needs to be done so we aren't saddling entire generations of students with essentially a mortgage payment.
As of now, just like the healthcare debates, Dems seem to be the only ones even acknowledging the problem. Repubs agree that it's too expensive when pressed, but that's where the discussion ends for them. The cynic in me says Republicans hate higher-ed because more educated people don't generally vote for them, and that leads to apathy regarding a major social issue.
I agree with this. Take out 200K in student loans for Med school, by the time I finish school and Residency (total of 7 years) it's up 350K.
Oldbear83 said:
I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:
1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse
2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan
3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college
4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants
5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age
I agree.
We should also do what every other developed country (and some developing) does and charge the treasury interest rate or zero interest rate on student loans. People can then pay back to the best of their ability as their income rises. Currently we charge 5 to 6% when rates are at all time lows. And interest accrues while in college. Meanwhile other country's younger generations get further ahead than our own.
I've been saying for years that the federal govt should stop guaranteeing loans. It was my hope Sec. DeVos would end this practice; it is my disappointment that she did not.Carlos Safety said:
Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
beerman said:br53 said:Yea well lowering the interest on my new Tahoe doesnt do anything either but allow Chevy to keep charging 75K and I pay it cause my wife wanted it and I could afford it. Now as long as these dumbass little kids want to go to BU and UT and be teachers, underwater basket weavers and social workers let em rot in debt hell until they learn to make better decisions and get a degree worth more than the paper its printed on. I tried to help and meet in the middle but you liberal SOB's go back to blaming the businesses. Dont buy what you cant afford and dont chase an education that maxes out with income at 75k with a 200k education bill.HuMcK said:
That's just kicking the can, changing interests rates does nothing about the actual cost of education.
Higher education isn't for everyone. There are countries like Sweden, Australia etc that have capitalist rules but zero issues with student debt. Debt isn't the problem, it's as br53s says, it's the ability, or lack there of, of the borrower's ability to pay it back that's the issue.
Sweden doesn't have student debt issues bc college is free their for citizens.
Australia doesn't have student debt issues because their loans are zero interest, they have heavily subsidized lower income student's tuition and they pay back their loans automatically based on their income. Schools know that there isn't unlimited loan funds to pillage there also.
Eliminate the interest, and the ability to pay back is on a semi-level playing field with the rest of the world.
I have problems with both items but the causes pf the problems are the Government itself. Tuitition has gone sky high because the Fed have helped provide loans to pay the sky high tuition. Health Care has gone sky high because Medicare and the Insurance Companies have injected themselves between the consumer and the Doctors. How much does medical care cost? As much as the Dr can charge the insurance company or medicare.HuMcK said:
In other words you have no problem with the wild inflation of education and healthcare costs and are happy doing nothing to change that at all, got it.
The solutions are to get the govenment out of these businesses that inflace the real costs.
Knowing I could have saved $10k but won't be able to because I'm a responsible hard working person makes my ****ing blood boil.
College is "free" because it is paid for via taxation. There are also 3x as many people in Texas as there are in Sweden. They also have virtually no military spending, a 25% VAT on most consumer goods and a top tax bracket of just shy of 60%. There is no such thing as free. Free to someone means paid for by someone else.
Australia has an outstanding trades program. We would be better off to emulate that system.
Australia has an outstanding trades program. We would be better off to emulate that system.
nein51 said:
College is "free" because it is paid for via taxation. There are also 3x as many people in Texas as there are in Sweden. They also have virtually no military spending, a 25% VAT on most consumer goods and a top tax bracket of just shy of 60%. There is no such thing as free. Free to someone means paid for by someone else.
Australia has an outstanding trades program. We would be better off to emulate that system.
Correct nothing is free. They choose education. We choose to be the world police with military blank checks.
We would be smart to emulate half a dozen of Australia's overall systems.
Buddha Bear said:nein51 said:
College is "free" because it is paid for via taxation. There are also 3x as many people in Texas as there are in Sweden. They also have virtually no military spending, a 25% VAT on most consumer goods and a top tax bracket of just shy of 60%. There is no such thing as free. Free to someone means paid for by someone else.
Australia has an outstanding trades program. We would be better off to emulate that system.
Correct nothing is free. They choose education. We choose to be the world police with military blank checks.
We would be smart to emulate half a dozen of Australia's overall systems.
There is a fairly substantial benefit that comes from having an almost entirely homogeneous society the entirety of which would quite easily fit in the area from Waco to Dallas (drawing a line across the state). You actually see this in action in the US all the time. It's why different states have differing laws on things like drugs, sex and guns.
You could probably convince Oregon to pay 60% taxation and offer free college, for example. That would never happen in Florida or Alabama.
It would be a huge leg up to a whole generation.Carlos Safety said:
Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.
I don't know that I'm for full forgiveness, but some reform would be in order. You can go bankrupt and still have to pay your student loans.
Plus, there are predatory schools (ex: Univ. of Phoenix) that prey on people and get them to run up huge debts they can never repay.
We need to do something to reform our whole higher education system in regard to finances. It's terribly costly for many young people to get the training to get jobs now and in the future.
It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Unrealistic expectation. De Vos wanted MORE federal money to go into loans for for-profit schools like Trump U. She was a clear example of a fox guarding the henhouse to divert federal dollars to special interest. Rather than drain the swamp, Trump appointees like De Vos just diverted the flow of federal dollars from it in directions that helped them and their cronies.quash said:I've been saying for years that the federal govt should stop guaranteeing loans. It was my hope Sec. DeVos would end this practice; it is my disappointment that she did not.Carlos Safety said:
Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.
I'm a Libertarian, realistic is not a requirement.J.B.Katz said:Unrealistic expectation. De Vos wanted MORE federal money to go into loans for for-profit schools like Trump U. She was a clear example of a fox guarding the henhouse to divert federal dollars to special interest. Rather than drain the swamp, Trump appointees like De Vos just diverted the flow of federal dollars from it in directions that helped them and their cronies.quash said:I've been saying for years that the federal govt should stop guaranteeing loans. It was my hope Sec. DeVos would end this practice; it is my disappointment that she did not.Carlos Safety said:
Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
Yeah coding isn't that hard and its getting automated somewhat.br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
3D technical art is extremely difficult though and still considered a BA.
I have no clue, I was just being a wise ass about Biden acting like he could just pull people and teach them coding in 20 minutes.Doc Holliday said:Yeah coding isn't that hard and its getting automated somewhat.br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
3D technical art is extremely difficult though and still considered a BA.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
Ha, I remember Obama doing the same. Its not going to happen. Most of my coworkers can't even figure out how to fix basic computer issues.br53 said:I have no clue, I was just being a wise ass about Biden acting like he could just pull people and teach them coding in 20 minutes.Doc Holliday said:Yeah coding isn't that hard and its getting automated somewhat.br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
3D technical art is extremely difficult though and still considered a BA.
I wonder who will explain to Joe how much pipeline and refinery maintenance will be needed in the next 20 years while "transitioning" to whatever he thinks will be robust enough to meet our energy needs?br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
I want you to read this article:HuMcK said:
I would rather have see the Feds attach strings to that money relating to how it is used by the institutions. I'm not smart enough to think up what those strings are right now on the spot, but I envision it as using the money as a hook to force some kind of responsibility/accountability on the institutions. Like how federal funds were used to set a drinking age and require DWI enforcement, or how Medicare/aid control their costs with fixed rates.
There should also be much more emphasis on trade schools and associates degrees instead of the 4yr degrees. I think you have to make some kind of structural changes, then maybe you can talk about reducing debt loads for people who got screwed by the last system.
https://humanevents.com/2020/03/30/seize-the-endowments/
Quote:
But what is that educational product worth? To be frank, colleges are gouging young people burdening them with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, at a very young age without providing anything of commensurate value. If this were happening in any other industry, we would call it fraud and shut down the entities responsible, with enforcement actions from the Justice Department or the FTC.
The answer to the debt crisis from people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren is to cancel all student debt, and then make public college tuition-free. But there is a fundamental incoherence to this position: if student loan debt must be forgiven, isn't it fraudulent? Shouldn't we stop the fraud and make sure it doesn't happen again? Bernie wants to make Wall Street pay for it. But Wall Street didn't cause the problem; they didn't immiserate our children. Price-gouging universities are the ones turning children into indentured servants.
If we re-frame the issue using the language of fraud to talk about what the universities are doing, the weakness of the Bernie-Warren position is readily apparent. Students drowning in student loan debt are not freeloaders looking for a handout. They are, instead, the victims of fraud, a fraud jointly perpetrated by their alma mater and the federal government.
And if we dont do it, who is going to clean all that up when it leaks all over the country.Oldbear83 said:I wonder who will explain to Joe how much pipeline and refinery maintenance will be needed in the next 20 years while "transitioning" to whatever he thinks will be robust enough to meet our energy needs?br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
The battle is not yours, but God's.
2 Chronicles 20:15
2 Chronicles 20:15
That one's easy. The EPA will blame the closest available corporation and fine the daylights out of them.br53 said:And if we dont do it, who is going to clean all that up when it leaks all over the country.Oldbear83 said:I wonder who will explain to Joe how much pipeline and refinery maintenance will be needed in the next 20 years while "transitioning" to whatever he thinks will be robust enough to meet our energy needs?br53 said:Coding is not that hard. Biden is going to teach all the oilfield workers and coal miners how to do it. So there will be alot of talent entering that job pool to drive down their salary.Doc Holliday said:Some B.A.'s are really good and a lot tougher than many B.S. degrees: UX design, coding, arts and technology.George Truett said:It's to everyone's advantage to have good training for the workforce.Carlos Safety said:It is not my job or the job of any American taxpayer to help people receive higher education or whatever it is they do for four to seven years while proceeding toward a bachelor's degree.br53 said:
you still help people receive an education.
I agree in relation to a B.A. But know that technical training costs a lot too, and many young people are in heavy debt from training in I.T. and things like that.
Maybe we could weigh help and relief to those getting technical training.
Some of these grads are outperforming their software engineering majors because they have both the artistic and technical skills.
Where does the buck stop, when the student loans are paid? Is it not you and me who pay the loan guarantees on unsecured student loans under a system designed by our Congressmen/Congresswomen?Doc Holliday said:
https://humanevents.com/2020/03/30/seize-the-endowments/Quote:
But what is that educational product worth? To be frank, colleges are gouging young people burdening them with hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt, at a very young age without providing anything of commensurate value. If this were happening in any other industry, we would call it fraud and shut down the entities responsible, with enforcement actions from the Justice Department or the FTC.
The answer to the debt crisis from people like Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren is to cancel all student debt, and then make public college tuition-free. But there is a fundamental incoherence to this position: if student loan debt must be forgiven, isn't it fraudulent? Shouldn't we stop the fraud and make sure it doesn't happen again? Bernie wants to make Wall Street pay for it. But Wall Street didn't cause the problem; they didn't immiserate our children. Price-gouging universities are the ones turning children into indentured servants.
If we re-frame the issue using the language of fraud to talk about what the universities are doing, the weakness of the Bernie-Warren position is readily apparent. Students drowning in student loan debt are not freeloaders looking for a handout. They are, instead, the victims of fraud, a fraud jointly perpetrated by their alma mater and the federal government.
Student loans are going to be forgiven.
Medical care will be 'free' for everyone.
Reparations are going to be handed out like Trick or Treat candy.
Taxes are going to skyrocket, jobs lost , and crime run amuck .
And 90% of the media is going to tell you its all good or Trump's fault .
Medical care will be 'free' for everyone.
Reparations are going to be handed out like Trick or Treat candy.
Taxes are going to skyrocket, jobs lost , and crime run amuck .
And 90% of the media is going to tell you its all good or Trump's fault .
This is just crap!!!! My parents saved to put me through college and grad school. I saved to put my 2 kids through college. Just wrote my last check to Furman today!!!!!! I just got a big raise. My opinion is if you borrow $, you pay it back. It's really simple. My bankers and lenders require me to pay it all back!