nein51 said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Canon said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

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Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.

---

Eliminate the interest or drop it to the treasury rate, just like every other developed nation has done.

Problem solved, crisis averted.

---

Screw all those folks who worked and saved and sacrificed to pay off the loans they agreed to. They were just rubes for be conscientious and honest and dependable, amaright?

---

You're talking about me then. I wouldn't feel screwed at all. I'd feel relief for the next generation that they can keep up with other countries. I payed all $46k of my loans + interest (prob another 20K) after all said and done. I feel cheated after seeing first hand how the rest of the world manages their payment of education. Other countries are getting ahead of us financially because we choose to charge a set 6% rate on our loans that start accruing the first year of college. It's a racket. All other developed countries (and some developing) charge 1% or 0%.

I agreed to those loans at 18 years old, and I paid them off. One thing is for sure....we are NOT adults at 18 years old. And loans that accrue high interest starting at the age of 18 and can't be discharged EVER is indentured servitude. It's disgusting really. Most un-American s*** ever.

---

2 things need to happen then. If loans are forgiven or discharged in bankruptcy, then loans need to be restricted moving forward. You need to be able to present a repayment plan to the lender and have a good academic background to provide as background.

Go to a bank today and ask for a low interest bank loan for $100,000 with no collateral or credit history. You'll be laughed out of the room.

18 year olds nationwide request $100,000 loans with no business plan, no collateral or credit history, and expect low interest rates and to simply default when they feel like it? To major in English?

Fewer people need to be going to college. Force colleges to lower their prices. If you don't have the grades or a marketable degree plan, you don't need to be getting a loan. You are welcome to pay your own way for a Philosophy degree.

---

18 year olds can request $100k in student loans? You never had a student loan did you. You're wrong. Max for govt loans is around 50k (for undergrad). So much ignorant privilege on this board.

---

It's adorable that you think those are the only loans people take. I had closer to 100k in 2000 in student loans and Baylor is wayyyyyyyy more expensive now.

It took me 10 very long years to pay those off.

---

You took private loans on top of govt loans then. What an idiot to have done that. You think the government is also trying to pay off private loans? You were stupid. The govt isn't even that stupid.

Rawhide said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Canon said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.

---

Eliminate the interest or drop it to the treasury rate, just like every other developed nation has done.

Problem solved, crisis averted.

---

Screw all those folks who worked and saved and sacrificed to pay off the loans they agreed to. They were just rubes for be conscientious and honest and dependable, amaright?

---

You're talking about me then. I wouldn't feel screwed at all. I'd feel relief for the next generation that they can keep up with other countries. I payed all $46k of my loans + interest (prob another 20K) after all said and done. I feel cheated after seeing first hand how the rest of the world manages their payment of education. Other countries are getting ahead of us financially because we choose to charge a set 6% rate on our loans that start accruing the first year of college. It's a racket. All other developed countries (and some developing) charge 1% or 0%.

I agreed to those loans at 18 years old, and I paid them off. One thing is for sure....we are NOT adults at 18 years old. And loans that accrue high interest starting at the age of 18 and can't be discharged EVER is indentured servitude. It's disgusting really. Most un-American s*** ever.

---

2 things need to happen then. If loans are forgiven or discharged in bankruptcy, then loans need to be restricted moving forward. You need to be able to present a repayment plan to the lender and have a good academic background to provide as background.

Go to a bank today and ask for a low interest bank loan for $100,000 with no collateral or credit history. You'll be laughed out of the room.

18 year olds nationwide request $100,000 loans with no business plan, no collateral or credit history, and expect low interest rates and to simply default when they feel like it? To major in English?

Fewer people need to be going to college. Force colleges to lower their prices. If you don't have the grades or a marketable degree plan, you don't need to be getting a loan. You are welcome to pay your own way for a Philosophy degree.

---

Education to me is a basic human right. I understand from a business perspective what you are proposing. But this is another issue I think other countries have figured out better. Education is the main pathway out of poverty. Therefore it should be a foundation of our country and a human right.

---

Do you mean formal education? While education is important, formal education is not the main pathway out of poverty.... that woulld be ambition, will power, a strong work ethic and the willingness to take risk.. If you can learn by doing or learn on your own, often that's all it takes.

I know plenty of people present and past that had very little to no formal education that have become wildly successful. My best friend never went to college. Started a landscaping business right out of high school, worked his butt off to make it grow, expanded into the fencing, hard scaping, pergolas, fire pits, etc.... About a year ago (maybe a year and half).... he bought a weekend getaway 196 acre ranch about 2 hours away for $1.95M. An no, he didn't take a loan on it

---

You mention a lot of things that are true to the American and some Western ways of life. It's usually the exception, and not the rule. The rules of 300 years ago, may not be true today. In fact, it's 100% certain that they will change based on history and the evolution of man. Education is essential. Maybe we don't have it figured out yet. But it's the pathway to dictatorship or democracy.

There are so many exceptions to the rule. Everybody knows a guy who made a couple million. Everybody also knows a 100 guys that made nothing of themselves. And everybody knows more than one guy that tried so hard, but the cards just didn't play out the way they wanted, no matter how hard they tried. That's partly due to education.

BaylorOkie said:

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Buddha Bear said:

---

nein51 said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

BearTruth13 said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Canon said:

---

Buddha Bear said:

---

Carlos Cruz said:

---

Is there really a national crisis? If we wind up forgiving student loans, then the federal government should never guarantee another educational loan again.

---

Eliminate the interest or drop it to the treasury rate, just like every other developed nation has done.

Problem solved, crisis averted.

---

Screw all those folks who worked and saved and sacrificed to pay off the loans they agreed to. They were just rubes for be conscientious and honest and dependable, amaright?

---

You're talking about me then. I wouldn't feel screwed at all. I'd feel relief for the next generation that they can keep up with other countries. I payed all $46k of my loans + interest (prob another 20K) after all said and done. I feel cheated after seeing first hand how the rest of the world manages their payment of education. Other countries are getting ahead of us financially because we choose to charge a set 6% rate on our loans that start accruing the first year of college. It's a racket. All other developed countries (and some developing) charge 1% or 0%.

I agreed to those loans at 18 years old, and I paid them off. One thing is for sure....we are NOT adults at 18 years old. And loans that accrue high interest starting at the age of 18 and can't be discharged EVER is indentured servitude. It's disgusting really. Most un-American s*** ever.

---

2 things need to happen then. If loans are forgiven or discharged in bankruptcy, then loans need to be restricted moving forward. You need to be able to present a repayment plan to the lender and have a good academic background to provide as background.

Go to a bank today and ask for a low interest bank loan for $100,000 with no collateral or credit history. You'll be laughed out of the room.

18 year olds nationwide request $100,000 loans with no business plan, no collateral or credit history, and expect low interest rates and to simply default when they feel like it? To major in English?

Fewer people need to be going to college. Force colleges to lower their prices. If you don't have the grades or a marketable degree plan, you don't need to be getting a loan. You are welcome to pay your own way for a Philosophy degree.

---

18 year olds can request $100k in student loans? You never had a student loan did you. You're wrong. Max for govt loans is around 50k (for undergrad). So much ignorant privilege on this board.

---

It's adorable that you think those are the only loans people take. I had closer to 100k in 2000 in student loans and Baylor is wayyyyyyyy more expensive now.

It took me 10 very long years to pay those off.

---

You took private loans on top of govt loans then. What an idiot to have done that. You think the government is also trying to pay off private loans? You were stupid. The govt isn't even that stupid.

---

You should stop pretending to take the moral high ground all the time after a massive ******* post like this. No one is buying your fake bull*****

---

It's a bull**** response made in a total ******* sort of what but his premise is not wrong. It was stupid. I paid them off in full though so can everyone else.

nein51 said:

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I took whatever loans I needed to complete my degree at Baylor. Under no circumstances will my kid do that.

---

Then don't falsely state that the govt is trying to forgive 100k. It's fed loans only.

Buddha Bear said:

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nein51 said:

---

I took whatever loans I needed to complete my degree at Baylor. Under no circumstances will my kid do that.

---

Then don't falsely state that the govt is trying to forgive 100k. It's fed loans only.

---

I literally never said that. I said it was naive to assume people only had 50k in student loans.

Dnicknames said:

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JXL said:

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Dnicknames said:

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The student loan forgiveness argument is a straw man.

Neither party is proposing outright student loan forgiveness.

People get worked up over a policy that doesn't exist.

---

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/14/what-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan-means-for-borrowers.html

---

Hope isn't a policy.

I've asked both Biden's campaign staffers and Democrat Hill staffers what a loan forgiveness policy would look like. Each said it is a talking point right now.

His transition team is focused on infrastructure. They want to eventually do a student loan reduction program that trades federal student loan buy downs for annual years of social service (teachers, social workers, public servants, etc); student loan forgiveness isn't high on their agenda right now though.

---

Bumping thread a year later:

As discussed last year, the student loan foregiveness program will be a trade off for public service work - details being announced today.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6011023001

Dnicknames said:

---

The student loan forgiveness argument is a straw man.

Neither party is proposing outright student loan forgiveness.

People get worked up over a policy that doesn't exist.

---

Well…about that….

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/10/17/politics/biden-student-loan-forgiveness-launch/index.html

HuMcK said:

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Instead of forgiving the loans outright, I wouldn't mind a reduction back to the principal amount, essentially forgiving interest instead of the loan itself. That would help out a whole lot of people, and isn't quite the handout that loan forgiveness is.

It's should be abundantly clear to everyone that the current higher-ed model is wildly overpriced and borderline predatory (similar to healthcare). I understand if conservatives don't want to pay off loans for people, but something needs to be done so we aren't saddling entire generations of students with essentially a mortgage payment.

As of now, just like the healthcare debates, Dems seem to be the only ones even acknowledging the problem. Repubs agree that it's too expensive when pressed, but that's where the discussion ends for them. The cynic in me says Republicans hate higher-ed because more educated people don't generally vote for them, and that leads to apathy regarding a major social issue.

---

I agree. Forgive interest only. Many are stuck in payments because of interest. They paid back what they borrowed long ago. If you want to add in inflation, good with that as well.

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

Dnicknames said:

---

Dnicknames said:

---

JXL said:

---

Dnicknames said:

---

The student loan forgiveness argument is a straw man.

Neither party is proposing outright student loan forgiveness.

People get worked up over a policy that doesn't exist.

---

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/11/14/what-bidens-student-loan-forgiveness-plan-means-for-borrowers.html

---

Hope isn't a policy.

I've asked both Biden's campaign staffers and Democrat Hill staffers what a loan forgiveness policy would look like. Each said it is a talking point right now.

His transition team is focused on infrastructure. They want to eventually do a student loan reduction program that trades federal student loan buy downs for annual years of social service (teachers, social workers, public servants, etc); student loan forgiveness isn't high on their agenda right now though.

---

Bumping thread a year later:

As discussed last year, the student loan foregiveness program will be a trade off for public service work - details being announced today.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/6011023001

---

That is a different program, which dates from 2007. The current plan has no public service requirement.

https://www.npr.org/2022/10/28/1132107116/biden-student-loans-debt-forgiveness-faq

They pay for years because the loan terms are so long. You shouldn't have a 30 year college loan. If you need that you simply cannot afford to go to college.

nein51 said:

---

They pay for years because the loan terms are so long. You shouldn't have a 30 year college loan. If you need that you simply cannot afford to go to college.

---

True, but a lot of times it is the best odds of getting through. Not everyone is gifted enough to work and go part time. The cost and monthly payment dictate the term a lot of times.

I think that is the point, if you only left higher education to those that could afford it, as a Nation we would lose competitiveness as the world becomes more technical everyday. I don't disagree, the ideal and best way is to do it as many on here say and many have done. As with other public policy issues, sort of hard to apply policy for 350 million based on that.

I have no issue with people paying back, the gouging and ridiculous profit margins are what get me for higher education. It is akin to making people pay more for the better lenses with cataracts. The sales point was literally, do you want to see red?? Serious, when my Dad went for catacract surgery he paid extra above medicare for better lenses. That is wrong. feel the same about education. People not being educated does not help the US.

Haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd drop it in, but the fundamentally broken piece of the equation is the higher education/consumer price mechanism. If the loan office is in the same building as the student registrar, you've got little to no ability to negotiate the price of higher education. Universities don't have to earn their revenue, they get it per student and they choose the price. Huge mistake at the federal level.

So we're now in a position where the Democrats want to give a hand out and buy votes while simultaneously protecting the most broken part of the equation, which are government controlled, Liberal Democrat leaning university professors and administrators.

Not only is that kicking the can further down the road, it's adding an extra cost on top that we all get to pay. So if you take $10k in loan forgiveness in a student loan, you'll pay for it with $12k in treasury costs and interests. And wow does it screw the lower class, self-employed and business owners.

Congratulate yourself if you saw this, there is no other interpretation(Numbers are approx)
If you're in any denial about this, youre part of the problem.

But here is the good news, there are wise men(women) in academia that have proposed solutions. Check out Oklahoma State professor Vance Fried and his published work on the subject. He's laid it out quite neatly.

The solution here is political reform first, economic reform of universities second.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

Haven't seen it mentioned here, so I thought I'd drop it in, but the fundamentally broken piece of the equation is the higher education/consumer price mechanism. If the loan office is in the same building as the student registrar, you've got little to no ability to negotiate the price of higher education. Universities don't have to earn their revenue, they get it per student and they choose the price. Huge mistake at the federal level.

So we're now in a position where the Democrats want to give a hand out and buy votes while simultaneously protecting the most broken part of the equation, which are government controlled, Liberal Democrat leaning university professors and administrators.

Not only is that kicking the can further down the road, it's adding an extra cost on top that we all get to pay. So if you take $10k in loan forgiveness in a student loan, you'll pay for it with $12k in treasury costs and interests. And wow does it screw the lower class, self-employed and business owners.

Congratulate yourself if you saw this, there is no other interpretation(Numbers are approx)
If you're in any denial about this, youre part of the problem.

But here is the good news, there are wise men(women) in academia that have proposed solutions. Check out Oklahoma State professor Vance Fried and his published work on the subject. He's laid it out quite neatly.

The solution here is political reform first, economic reform of universities second.

---

I agree with you, the price component is broke. Maybe focus more on academics, less on luxurious accommodations. Too much on the "experience" and less on training for life.

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

This is another example of solving the wrong problem. I agree about the importance of education and training. The problem is not the loans, the problem is the costs; and the costs are artificially inflated by the loans.

Take away student loans and force higher education to normalize its pricing and stop growing at a faster rate than anything but inflation. The excess costs in higher education is not driving by important education. It is largely driven by:
- Student luxuries and amenities
- Bloated administration
- DEI and other worthless cultural programs that have nothing to do with education
- Worthless degrees like grievance studies, etc.

Cut the loans. Force the schools to right their finance to respond to the actual market. They will cut the fat themselves.

Currently, the student loan program is effectively enabling the federal government to fund Democrat activists and agenda. The federal government subsidizes loans for students who major in grievance studies and spend four years agitating and promoting Democrat causes, and a few will take their degrees into professional agitation, but most will end up flipping coffee at a locally sustainable, fair trade coffee company.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

This is another example of solving the wrong problem. I agree about the importance of education and training. The problem is not the loans, the problem is the costs; and the costs are artificially inflated by the loans.

Take away student loans and force higher education to normalize its pricing and stop growing at a faster rate than anything but inflation. The excess costs in higher education is not driving by important education. It is largely driven by:
- Student luxuries and amenities
- Bloated administration
- DEI and other worthless cultural programs that have nothing to do with education
- Worthless degrees like grievance studies, etc.

Cut the loans. Force the schools to right their finance to respond to the actual market. They will cut the fat themselves.

Currently, the student loan program is effectively enabling the federal government to fund Democrat activists and agenda. The federal government subsidizes loans for students who major in grievance studies and spend four years agitating and promoting Democrat causes, and a few will take their degrees into professional agitation, but most will end up flipping coffee at a locally sustainable, fair trade coffee company.

---

Ok, I will go three. Gets us to.same place. Make people pay but don't mortgage their whole life.

RMF5630 said:

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quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

The problem is not the interest.

The problem is the federal loan guarantee and moral hazard.

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

The problem is not the interest.

The problem is the federal loan guarantee and moral hazard.

---

In real terms, the problem is the interest. I had to take PLUS loans to get my kids through. The interest is ridiculous. If you are not of the means to pay off or mortgage property, it will be a mortgage payment. It is the biggest thing trying to figure out before running out of working years for me. Many on here will say I am stupid, shouldn't pay for it. So be it. Hopefully, kids are able to step up and pay. Without interest, it is a much more manageable situation. I know, my fault. I signed the loan.. Personal responsibility... Blah, Blah. I get it.

As I said, my view as someone that has and is dealing with it, I would have no problem with the Feds cutting the interest and making people pay the actual cost of getting the training. The training is an investment in the Nation. The more educated the population is, the better. That to me makes the interest worth eliminating, even for liberal arts...

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

The problem is not the interest.

The problem is the federal loan guarantee and moral hazard.

---

The problem is Congress didn't appropriate the money

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

RMF5630 said:

---

quash said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I would say loans should not be forgiven, but recommend the following changes:

1. No government loans - this is not a valid function of government, and it only made things worse

2. No bank can be punished for declining to offer a loan

3. Student loans can be included in bankruptcies if those bankruptcies are filed at least 3 years after leaving college

4. Public Universities are not allowed to charge tuition beyond an amount paid in full by at least 60% by a combination of payment not supported by loan - e.g. direct cash payment, scholarships, or grants

5. Universities may not charge interest on unpaid tuition/fees, regardless of age

---

Agree on all but #4. I think the market works that one out.

---

Agreed. Government-backed student loans has been little more than a corrupt ponzi scheme designed to enrich universities. These universities have billion dollar endowments - let them lower tuition to affordable rates or make their own loans against those endowments. Much like public sector unions, it is all a corrupt scam in order to fund an indoctrination arm of the Democrat Party.

A couple of notes:
- If student loans can be discharged in bankruptcy, require the forfeiture of the degree; a student can dispose of the debt but must relinquish the credential
- Colleges should charge different tuition rates for different majors - charge engineering majors more than education majors - based on long-term earnings potential

---

Oo, treat student debt as collateralized. That is interesting. Degrees are certainly marketed as a product. A degree from A has more value than one from B. Abner McCall would disagree but still.

---

Pay back principal and cap interest at a certain number. Everyone should pay back what they borrow and the lender should make a profit. But, to keep people paying interest for years is BS. Not everyone is a savy or even competent financial manager. I do not believe education, especially in areas that add to society, should be treated the same as credit debt or poor personal skills. I agree in principle that everyone is responsible for their own decisions, but on education it starts becoming counterproductive. Education is a good thing, not a punishment. No free ride, everyone pays back principal and some interest...

---

Housing is a good thing. Transportation is a good thing.

If you borrow to obtain either then you pay it back

---

I think education and training are going to be needed more as we go on. If it is priced out of reach, it hurts the Nation as much as homelessness or other issues. Lend people money for training, have them pay it back. No question. Interest is what gets me. Taking a 10 year loan and making it a 30 year with interest to teach skills I am not in favor.

---

The problem is not the interest.

The problem is the federal loan guarantee and moral hazard.

---

Agreed. The government needs to get out of the student loan business.

BREAKING: President Biden extends student loan payments pause as his debt relief plan remains blocked in court.

The payment pause will be extended until June 30 or until the litigation is resolved — whichever comes first. https://t.co/ZtBeRcxM7t

— NBC News (@NBCNews) November 22, 2022

And there are plenty of Republicans that see the harm in Higher education not being available to the poor and middle class.

But the most effective way to solve that is through the price mechanism reform.

Universities must learn to control their costs,

Cobretti said:

---

BREAKING: President Biden extends student loan payments pause as his debt relief plan remains blocked in court.

The payment pause will be extended until June 30 or until the litigation is resolved — whichever comes first. https://t.co/ZtBeRcxM7t

— NBC News (@NBCNews) November 22, 2022

---

But that corrupt old racist already declared the pandemic over. This is the most corrupt administration in decades.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

And there are plenty of Republicans that see the harm in Higher education not being available to the poor and middle class.

But the most effective way to solve that is through the price mechanism reform.

Universities must learn to control their costs,

---

Universities are free to admit as many poor and middle-class students as they can afford, it is not a governmental policy issue.

I make an exception for tuition money being offered as an inducement to serve.

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

And there are plenty of Republicans that see the harm in Higher education not being available to the poor and middle class.

But the most effective way to solve that is through the price mechanism reform.

Universities must learn to control their costs,

---

How can someone be so correct on sentences 2 and 3 be so ideologically hidebound on sentence 1?

For the record, we have far too many kids of all classes getting degrees in things that do not matter, and far too few kids of all classes attending trade schools. It would be hard to devise a social justice greater than cleaning out have of the ivy league and putting them into the TSTC system.

whiterock said:

---

TellMeYouLoveMe said:

---

And there are plenty of Republicans that see the harm in Higher education not being available to the poor and middle class.

But the most effective way to solve that is through the price mechanism reform.

Universities must learn to control their costs,

---

How can someone be so correct on sentences 2 and 3 be so ideologically hidebound on sentence 1?

For the record, we have far too many kids of all classes getting degrees in things that do not matter, and far too few kids of all classes attending trade schools. It would be hard to devise a social justice greater than cleaning out have of the ivy league and putting them into the TSTC system.

---

The cost problem, purely applied at the state university level is that the general public is paying for the public research and R&D costs of universities. Those costs are not direct benefits to students. That's the whole scam. And universities aren't saying a word about their obligations to the young people saddled with their debt.

The morality of this problem falls squarely on the Democrat run universities.

Show me a Democrat that believes in price mechanisms and I'll show you the solution to the problem.