whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

Here is the list of current senators for reference:

1 - Bryan Hughes (R-Mineola): 512-463-0101 - Bowie, Camp, Cass, Franklin, Gregg, Harrison, Lamar, Marion, Morris, Panola, Red River, Rusk, Smith, Titus, Wood, Upshur

2 - Bob Hall (E-Edgewood): 512-463-0102 - Dallas (Part), Delta, Fannin, Hopkins, Hunt, Kaufman, Rains, Rockwall, Van Zandt

3 - Robert Nichols (R-Jacksonville): 512-463-0103 - Anderson, Angelina, Cherokee, Hardin, Henderson, Houston, Jasper, Liberty, Montgomery (Part), Nacogdoches, Newton, Orange, Polk, Sabine, San Augustine, San Jacinto, Shelby, Trinity, Tyler

4 - Brandon Creighton (R-The Woodlands): 512-463-0104 - Chambers, Galveston (Part), Harris (Part), Jefferson, Montgomery (Part)

5 - Charles Schertner (R-Georgetown): 512-463-0105 - Brazos, Freestone, Grimes, Leon, Limestone, Madison, Milam, Robertson, Walker, Williamson

6 - Carol Alvarado (D-Houston): 512-463-0106 - Harris (Part)

7 - Paul Bettencourt (R-Houston): 512-463-0107 - Harris (Part)

8 - Angela Paxton (R-Plano): 512-463-0108 - Collin (Part), Dallas (Part)

9 - Kelly Hancock (R-Fort Worth): 512-463-0109 - Dallas (Part), Tarrant (Part)

10 - Beverly Powell (D-Fort Worth): 512-463-0110 - Tarrant (Part)

11 - Larry Taylor (R-Friendswood): 512-463-0111 - Brazoria (Part), Galveston (Part), Harris (Part)

12 - Jane Nelson (R-Flower Mound): 512-463-0112 - Denton (Part), Tarrant (Part)

13 - Borris Miles (D-Houston): 512-463-0113 - Fort Bend (Part), Harris (Part)

14 - Sarah Eckhardt (D-Austin): 512-463-0114 - Bastrop, Travis (Part)

15 - John Whitmire (D-Houston): 512-463-0115 - Harris (Part)

16 - Nathan Johnson (D-Dallas): 512-463-0116 - Dallas (Part)

17 - Joan Huffman (R-Houston): 512-463-0117 - Brazoria (Part), Fort Bend (Part), Harris (Part)

18 - Lois Kolkhorst (R-Katy): 512-463-0118 - Aransas, Austin, Burleson, Calhoun, Colorado, DeWitt, Fayette, Fort Bend (Part), Goliad, Gonzales, Harris (Part), Jackson, Lavaca, Lee, Matagorda, Nueces (Part), Refugio, Victoria, Waller, Washington, Wharton

19 - Roland Gutierrez (D-San Antonio): 512-463-0119 - Atascosa (Part), Bexar (Part), Brewster, Crockett, Dimmit, Edwards, Frio, Kinney, Maverick, Medina, Pecos, Real, Reeves, Terrell, Uvalde, Val Verde, Zavala

20 - Juan Hinojosa (D-McAllen): 512-463-0120 - Brooks, Hidalgo (Part), Jim Wells, Nueces (Part)

21 - Judith Zaffirini (D-Laredo): 512-463-0121 - Atascosa (Part), Bee, Bexar (Part), Caldwell, Duval, Guadalupe (Part), Hays (Part), Jim Hogg, Karnes, La Salle, Live Oak, McMullen, San Patricio, Starr, Travis (Part), Webb, Wilson, Zapata

22 - Brian Birdwell (R-Granbury): 512-463-0122 - Bosque, Ellis, Falls, Frio, Hill, Hood, Johnson, McLennan, Navarro, Sovervell, Tarrant (Part)

23 - Royce West (D-Dallas): 512-463-0123 - Dallas (Part)

24 - Dawn Buckingham (R-Horseshoe Bay): 512-463-0124 - Bandera, Bell, Blanco, Brown, Burnet, Callahan, Comanche, Coryell, Gillespie, Hamilton, Kerr, Lampasas, Llano, Mills, San Saba, Taylor (Part), Travis (Part)

25 - Donna Campbell (R-New Braunfels): 512-463-0125 - Bexar (Part), Comal, Guadalupe (Part), Hays (Part), Kendall, Travis (Part)

26 - Jose Menendez (D-San Antonio): 512-463-0126 - Bexar (Part)

27 - Eddie Lucio, Jr. (D-Brownsville): 512-463-0127 - Cameron, Hidalgo (Part), Kenedy, Kleberg, Willacy

28 - Charles Perry (R-Lubbock): 512-463-0128 - Baylor, Borden, Childress, Coke, Coleman, Concho, Cottle, Crane, Crosby, Dawson, Dickens, Eastland, Fisher, Floyd, Foard, Garza, Hale, Hardeman, Haskell, Hockley, Irion, Jones, Kent, Kimble, King, Knox, Lamb, Lubbock, Lynn, Mason, McColluch, Menard, Mitchell, Motley, Nolan, Reagan, Runnels, Sleicher, Scurry, Shackelford, Stephens, Sterling, Stonewall, Sutton, Taylor (Part), Terry, Throckmorton, Tom Green, Upton, Ward, Wilbarger

29 - Cesar Blanco (D-El Paso): 512-463-0129 - Culberson, El Paso, Hudspeth, Jeff Davis, Presidio

30 - Drew Springer (R-Vernon): 512-463-0130 - Archer, Clay, Collin (Part), Cooke, Denton (Part), Erath, Grayson, Jack, Montague, Palo Pinto, Parker, Wichita, Wise, Young

31 - Kel Seliger (R-Amarillo): 512-463-0131 - Andrews, Armstrong, Bailey, Briscoe, Carson, Castro, Cochran, Collingsworth, Dallam, Deaf Smith, Donley, Ector, Gaines, Glasscock, Gray, Hall, Hansford, Hartley, Hemphill, Howard, Hutchinson, Lipscomb, Loving, Martin, Midland, Moore, Ochiltree, Oldham, Parmer, Potter, Randall, Roberts, Sherman, Swisher, Wheeler, WInkley, Yoakum

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

I subscribe to New Discourses.

Again, simple pragmatism demands understanding that the liberals who have broken with CRT, etc....are numerically insignificant to the vast blue collar army the Democrats have alienated.

You have to win the war with the army you've got. The liberal dissenters on the Intellectual Dark Web are but a vanguard, giving voice to the problem. They are powerful messengers. An army they are not.

There is sound reason why the GOP is sticking to MAGA. Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner. It is not. It is fundamentally divisive and racist and will drive THEIR natural allies (to date) out of the coalition. It happened in Texas in 2020 all along the Rio Grande counties, hispanics moving red, strongly. It's also happening elsewhere. Image is from NYT analysis, posted on Twitter by one of the authors noted in the box. look at who moved most strongly red in a Democrat stronghold - the far larger part of the pyramid that lives paycheck to paycheck.

The more we trigger the wokeists to anger, the faster the flight from them will be. The Democrats owned the political landscape for 70 years of the last century. They burned their ships to pursue identity politics.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash: " You see it here all the time."

In your posts too, quash. You have a bias which filters everything you see and read.

---

Everyone has biases, we're all human. When biases become blindness is the big problem.

UPCOMING TEXAS NATIONALIST MOVEMENT EVENTS IN DISTRICT 22 (The senate district Waco is located in):

FEB 6
WACO (11AM-2PM)
539 N. Valley Mills Dr. (Corner of Valley Mills Dr. & Waco Dr.)

FEB 13
BURLESON (11AM-2PM)
921 SW Wilshire Blvd (Next to Murphy USA along Wilshire)

MIDLOTHIAN (11AM-2PM)
2040 FM 663 (SE Corner of Hwy 287 & FM 663)

FEB 20
ARLINGTON (11AM-2PM)
3000 S. Cooper St.

FEB 27
CORSICANA (11AM-2PM)
1911 W. 7th Ave. (In front of Harbor Freight along 7th Ave.)

GRANBURY (11AM-2PM)
735 E. Hwy 337 (In front of Walmart along Hwy 337)

MAR 6
CLEBURNE (11AM-2PM)
1663 Bus. US-67 (Corner of Nolan River Rd. & Henderson)

RED OAK (11AM-2PM)
777 S. I-35E (I-35E Overpass)

MAR 13
HILLSBORO (11AM-2PM)
1402 Corsicana Hwy (Corner of Corsicana Hwy & I-35 Service Rd)

WAXAHACHIE (11AM-2PM)
1315 Hwy 77 North (In front of Home Depot along Hwy 77)

MAR 20
ENNIS (11AM-2PM)
700 E. Ennis Ave. (In front of Walmart along Ennis Ave.)

https://tnm.me/news/political/state-representative-andrew-murr-signals-his-support-of-texas-independence

State Representative Andrew Murr signals his support of Texas Independence
State Representative Andrew Murr is the latest Texas legislator to signal his support for a vote on Texas independence.

Murr told The Kerrville Daily Times, "I'm supportive of the concept."

Andrew Murr, a Republican, represents District 53 in the Texas House of Representatives. District 53 covers Crockett, Kimble, Sutton, Schleicher, Real, Mason, Menard, Medina, Edwards, Kerr, Llano, and Bandera Counties.

His statement, although short, provides insight into his potential vote on HB 1359, Representative Kyle Biedermann's referendum bill. However, Murr's brief statement is not enough, it is vital for every representative to stand with their constituents publicly.

Some State Representatives have already publicly expressed their support to allow Texas to vote on independence. Several more have privately committed to signing on soon.

https://tnm.me/news/political/texas-gop-chair-comes-out-in-favor-of-texit-vote

Texas GOP Chair comes out in favor of TEXIT vote
Lieutenant Colonel Allen West, Chairman of the Republican Party of Texas, took on the issue of a TEXIT referendum on the Chris Salcedo Show and expressed his support for the vote.

In the lead up to West's remarks, Salcedo mentioned that there are several Democrat-led initiatives to add states to the union. Salcedo wanted West's take on the TNM's current push for putting the issue of Texas independence on the ballot.

West stated that while he has previously said that Texas should remain in the union, he understands why more Texans are ready to see Texas reassert its status as an independent.

"The people here in Texas have a right to voice their opinions on a critical issue that they're facing right now," West commented.

He went on to explain HB 1359, the Texas Independence Referendum Act and reinforced the case that the TNM's been making that it should be up to the people to decide. Citing the Texas Constitution, he made it clear that issues of this magnitude belong in the hands of the people and not just the elected class.

"I don't understand why anyone would feel that they need to prevent people from having a voice in something that is part of the Texas Constitution You cannot prevent the people from having a voice."

quash said:

---

The weakspot in academic Grievance Studies is the utter lack of data. It's why they were so easily duped by a Sokal type hoax.

The MAGA crowd shares this same weakness. You see it here all the time. The disdain for expertise looks just like the woke crowd calling math a white supremacy tactic.

I see one problem with two faces.

---

Certainly true in the first sentence, maybe a little bit of fallacy of middle ground going on there in the second.

Failure of societal elites (intelligensia and clerisy) involves misuse (politicization) of science, which after enough fails causes all science to be distrusted.

So yeah, the dynamic you mention in the second sentence exists, but in many respects it is justified.

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

The weakspot in academic Grievance Studies is the utter lack of data. It's why they were so easily duped by a Sokal type hoax.

The MAGA crowd shares this same weakness. You see it here all the time. The disdain for expertise looks just like the woke crowd calling math a white supremacy tactic.

I see one problem with two faces.

---

Certainly true in the first sentence, maybe a little bit of fallacy of middle ground going on there in the second.

Failure of societal elites (intelligensia and clerisy) involves misuse (politicization) of science, which after enough fails causes all science to be distrusted.

So yeah, the dynamic you mention in the second sentence exists, but in many respects it is justified.

---

So when the left ignores science it's bad, but the right not so much?

Don't think so.

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

The weakspot in academic Grievance Studies is the utter lack of data. It's why they were so easily duped by a Sokal type hoax.

The MAGA crowd shares this same weakness. You see it here all the time. The disdain for expertise looks just like the woke crowd calling math a white supremacy tactic.

I see one problem with two faces.

---

Certainly true in the first sentence, maybe a little bit of fallacy of middle ground going on there in the second.

Failure of societal elites (intelligensia and clerisy) involves misuse (politicization) of science, which after enough fails causes all science to be distrusted.

So yeah, the dynamic you mention in the second sentence exists, but in many respects it is justified.

---

So when the left ignores science it's bad, but the right not so much?

Don't think so.

---

You're very good at replying to things not actually said.

What did that poor strawman do to you?

Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state Republic under God, one and indivisible.

Carlos Safety said:

---

Honor the Texas flag; I pledge allegiance to thee, Texas, one state Republic under God, one and indivisible.

---

Well, nation-state.

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

I subscribe to New Discourses.

Again, simple pragmatism demands understanding that the liberals who have broken with CRT, etc....are numerically insignificant to the vast blue collar army the Democrats have alienated.

You have to win the war with the army you've got. The liberal dissenters on the Intellectual Dark Web are but a vanguard, giving voice to the problem. They are powerful messengers. An army they are not.

There is sound reason why the GOP is sticking to MAGA. Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner. It is not. It is fundamentally divisive and racist and will drive THEIR natural allies (to date) out of the coalition. It happened in Texas in 2020 all along the Rio Grande counties, hispanics moving red, strongly. It's also happening elsewhere. Image is from NYT analysis, posted on Twitter by one of the authors noted in the box. look at who moved most strongly red in a Democrat stronghold - the far larger part of the pyramid that lives paycheck to paycheck.

The more we trigger the wokeists to anger, the faster the flight from them will be. The Democrats owned the political landscape for 70 years of the last century. They burned their ships to pursue identity politics.

---

There's only one problem with all of that. In 2016 the R's controlled both Houses and the White House. Four years of MAGA and where did that get us?

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

I subscribe to New Discourses.

Again, simple pragmatism demands understanding that the liberals who have broken with CRT, etc....are numerically insignificant to the vast blue collar army the Democrats have alienated.

You have to win the war with the army you've got. The liberal dissenters on the Intellectual Dark Web are but a vanguard, giving voice to the problem. They are powerful messengers. An army they are not.

There is sound reason why the GOP is sticking to MAGA. Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner. It is not. It is fundamentally divisive and racist and will drive THEIR natural allies (to date) out of the coalition. It happened in Texas in 2020 all along the Rio Grande counties, hispanics moving red, strongly. It's also happening elsewhere. Image is from NYT analysis, posted on Twitter by one of the authors noted in the box. look at who moved most strongly red in a Democrat stronghold - the far larger part of the pyramid that lives paycheck to paycheck.

The more we trigger the wokeists to anger, the faster the flight from them will be. The Democrats owned the political landscape for 70 years of the last century. They burned their ships to pursue identity politics.

---

There's only one problem with all of that. In 2016 the R's controlled both Houses and the White House. Four years of MAGA and where did that get us?

---

In 2017, not 2016, R's controlled both Houses and Trump controlled the White House. The GOP was split between establishment Republicans, RINOs, and Republicans who supported Trump. That allowed Democrats to get their fake investigations and play R vs R, and by 2019 the Dems controlled the House while the Senate remained split.

At no time did Trump have enough GOP unity to get his programs fully done. Some of that is on Trump's ego and lack of diplomacy, but some is on Republicans more willing to lose than stand with Trump.

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner.

---

And Republicans are in danger of falling into the same trap.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

I subscribe to New Discourses.

Again, simple pragmatism demands understanding that the liberals who have broken with CRT, etc....are numerically insignificant to the vast blue collar army the Democrats have alienated.

You have to win the war with the army you've got. The liberal dissenters on the Intellectual Dark Web are but a vanguard, giving voice to the problem. They are powerful messengers. An army they are not.

There is sound reason why the GOP is sticking to MAGA. Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner. It is not. It is fundamentally divisive and racist and will drive THEIR natural allies (to date) out of the coalition. It happened in Texas in 2020 all along the Rio Grande counties, hispanics moving red, strongly. It's also happening elsewhere. Image is from NYT analysis, posted on Twitter by one of the authors noted in the box. look at who moved most strongly red in a Democrat stronghold - the far larger part of the pyramid that lives paycheck to paycheck.

The more we trigger the wokeists to anger, the faster the flight from them will be. The Democrats owned the political landscape for 70 years of the last century. They burned their ships to pursue identity politics.

---

There's only one problem with all of that. In 2016 the R's controlled both Houses and the White House. Four years of MAGA and where did that get us?

---

In 2017, not 2016, R's controlled both Houses and Trump controlled the White House. The GOP was split between establishment Republicans, RINOs, and Republicans who supported Trump. That allowed Democrats to get their fake investigations and play R vs R, and by 2019 the Dems controlled the House while the Senate remained split.

At no time did Trump have enough GOP unity to get his programs fully done. Some of that is on Trump's ego and lack of diplomacy, but some is on Republicans more willing to lose than stand with Trump.

---

My mistype on the year, doesn't change the result. "Republicans more willing to lose than stand with Trump." More like Republicans have been afraid of losing for fear of Trump i.e. 232 to 197. Very few have been willing to stand up to Trump. MAGA didn't fair so well in the last two elections, and it won't wear well in 2022 if Trump is still driving the R's. MAGA gave us a Democrat WH, House and Senate. Republicans need to focus on doing the right thing as opposed to cow towing to Trump.

https://tnm.me/news/political/the-campaign-to-scare-pro-texit-texans-has-begun

The campaign to scare Pro-TEXIT Texans has begun
The political establishment and less-than-courageous Texans have begun to spin up a Texas-version of Project: Fear to discourage Texans from standing up for TEXIT. Here's what they don't want you to know.

Texans don't scare. They also don't take kindly to people who use fear as a manipulation tactic. The political establishment and their enablers are taking a page from the losing side of the Brexit debate and trying to use fear to discourage Texans from taking back their political, cultural, and economic destiny. Even worse, they're using outright lies and ignorance to justify their position that Texans shouldn't even be able to vote on TEXIT.

It's disgusting and the typical behavior of an abuser. They should be ashamed.

It is true that Texas is highly integrated with the United States. However, these political and economic ties are not so tight or intricately interwoven that it would be impossible to untangle them. In many instances, it would not be necessary to untangle them at all. There is no part of the relationship between Texas and the rest of the United States that could not be accomplished by utilizing existing State-level institutions and agencies, executing bilateral agreements between Texas and the United States, or by Texas signing onto multilateral international agreements that are already in place.

Is the issue trade? Countries, including the United States, trade with one another every hour of every day and have done so for all of recorded human history. The free trade agreements that the United States already has in place for 20 other countries around the world treat trade with them as though they were one of the States of the Union. Yet no one would argue that any of those countries are inseparable members of the federal Union. Texas could execute a free trade agreement with the United States and adopt the United States tariff schedule with the World Trade Organization for external trade, and no one would even notice the difference.

Is the issue currency? If Texas needed or wanted to, it could adopt the U.S. dollar as its official currency in an informal currency union like many other countries have done. We don't need permission to do it. However, if Texas were so inclined and the United States were amenable, we could enter into an official currency union with the United States. Scotland proposed a similar move for itself and the United Kingdom ahead of its independence vote. This would be similar to the formal currency union that exists throughout the European Union.

Is the issue banking? Foreign banks are allowed to operate in the United States at this very moment with no trouble. That includes large retail banks like Compass and HSBC. In fact, more banks in Texas are State-chartered and State-regulated than those who are federally chartered and regulated.

Is the issue Social Security or other federal pension benefits? People live outside of the United States and collect their federal pensions, including Social Security, every month. The Social Security Administration has an entire section on its website and publishes numerous informational documents on this subject. Through totalization agreements with other countries, U.S. citizens work outside the United States and continue to pay into the United States Social Security system and vice versa.

Is the issue travel? Cars, planes, trucks, and trains move between the United States and other countries every day. Over 1 million people per day legally cross the border between the United States and Mexico for work or travel using only a "Border Crossing Card." No passport needed. This is essentially no different than traveling between Texas and Oklahoma, Louisiana, or New Mexico.

Perhaps the concerns are more about having the money to continue certain functions of government. Not a problem. Simple arithmetic proves the ability of an independent Texas to fund a government at the same level that Texans are currently accustomed to if that's what Texans want.

Texans currently pay, in all, federal and state taxes of $336 billion per year. This represents the total amount of revenue readily available to an independent Texas without increasing the financial burden on Texans one single cent. From that amount, subtract the amount spent by both the federal government and state government in Texas. $228 billion is the total amount of expenditures required to maintain every program, every job (both civilian and military), every department, every facility (including military bases) and fulfill every function (including current federal contract spending to Texas companies) provided by the federal and state governments. This level of government revenue would rank Texas 12th in the world for government revenue collected.

Somehow, since 1945, 140 new, formerly dependent countries have been able to "make it" as independent, self-governing nation-states. The unspoken assertion is that, to be able to do anything that Texas would have to do as an independent nation, it must be a part of the United States. The implication is that Texas, and Texans, aren't as good, as smart, or as capable as other nations.

This requires them to ignore the truth about how Texas stacks up against other self-governing countries in the world. In every category in which nation-states are traditionally compared, Texas overperforms.

• Texas has the 10th largest economy in the world.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in size.
• Texas ranks 47th in the world in population.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in the size of its labor force.
• Texas is a net global exporter ranking 22nd in the world and leading all other States in the United States.
• 93 percent of Texas exports are manufactured exports.
• Texas is the 12th largest technology exporter in the world.
• Texas ranks 19th in the world in the size of its active farms and ranches.
• Texas is the largest energy producer in the United States, accounting for more than half of the entire United States energy production and one-quarter of the refining capacity with over 26 petroleum refineries.
• Texas has the 7th largest coal reserves.
• Texas is the 6th largest producer of wind energy in the world.
• Texas has its own power grid.

These statistics, while impressive, don't tell the whole story. Texas not only does well in spite of the federal government, Texas is already structurally capable of doing everything that is traditionally done by a national government. In Texas, you will also find a state-level analog for every single cabinet-level federal department.

Texas even has its own military. The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the State of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state adjutant general, an appointee of the governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Texas governor. The State Guard, which is exclusively under the command of the governor, is divided into six army regiments, two air wings, three maritime regiments, and three medical battalions. The Texas Army National Guard consists of the 36th Infantry Division, 71st Troop Command, and the 176th Engineering Brigade. The Texas Air National Guard consists of the 149th Fighter Wing, 147th Attack Wing, and the 136th Airlift Wing.

Contrary to the opinion of some, Texas' attachment to the federal system is not a special case. There was no union in recent history with more power aggregated into a central government than the Soviet Union. Within an even tighter integration and under extreme economic stress, its constituent republics were able to extract themselves and become fully functioning nation-states. If the United States has truly become more centrally controlled than the Soviet Union, then it is no longer the United States. It has become the United State and no longer represents the vision of its founders.

If those who believe that separation is too difficult are to be believed, and today it is too complicated, tomorrow it will be more so and the day after harder still. If this argument is true, then Texas is destined to fall ever deeper into the depths of the federal system until Texas is only a distant memory that exists in a history book.

It is a false argument and one that strikes counter to everything Texans have historically believed about themselves. It runs contrary to the reputation gained by Texans around the world. It is the same argument made by "helicopter parents" for why their children should still live at home well into their thirties. And it's the excuse used by socially stunted adults, well into their thirties, as to why they still live with mommy and daddy.

Ultimately, Texans bristle at the suggestion that we simply aren't good enough to govern ourselves. We reject the idea that independence can't be done as we remember the old adage that, "If you want something done, tell a Texan that it can't be done."

The real question is this: Given all our natural advantages, if Texas can't make it as an independent nation, then who can?

Read more FACTS about TEXIT here: https://tnm.me/texit

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner.

---

And Republicans are in danger of falling into the same trap.

---

not really at all. On election dynamics, no risk whatsoever. Getting fired up over the contrived Russia Collusion hoax didn't pose a trap for Democrats, even when it was all proven by declassified documents to be a complete & utter lie. But it was very effective at thwarting/delaying parts of the Trump agenda and kept the "resistance" all motivated, greatly facilitating the recapture of the house. 2020 Election Fraud, beyond the fact that open eyes saw it happen real time, has the benefit of actually having real evidence and real court outcomes proving the allegations, and will definitely keep the MAGA base fired up for 2022 and beyond.

But that is not really what I was talking about. I was referring to the pseudo-reality of the social justice movement and cancel-culture. It is tyranny personified and the public will reject it for that reason alone, but on a macro scale it simply dehumanizes the individual. It literally is why Trump increased his percentages of vote share with Asians, Hispanics, Jews, women, etc......

Identity politics is a loser. GOP remains focused on policy outcomes for individuals. No matter what color your skin is or what you want to do with the anatomy you were born with, you still need a job, a car, a meal, shelter, and a better life for yourself and your family. Identity politics will shatter on the base of Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. The only question is how much damage occurs before it happens.

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

whiterock said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

whiterock said:

---

J.B.Katz said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

---

You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

Democrats have miscalculated, believed their own propaganda, that identity politics was a winner.

---

And Republicans are in danger of falling into the same trap.

---

not really at all. On election dynamics, no risk whatsoever. Getting fired up over the contrived Russia Collusion hoax didn't pose a trap for Democrats, even when it was all proven by declassified documents to be a complete & utter lie. But it was very effective at thwarting/delaying parts of the Trump agenda and kept the "resistance" all motivated, greatly facilitating the recapture of the house. 2020 Election Fraud, beyond the fact that open eyes saw it happen real time, has the benefit of actually having real evidence and real court outcomes proving the allegations, and will definitely keep the MAGA base fired up for 2022 and beyond.

But that is not really what I was talking about. I was referring to the pseudo-reality of the social justice movement and cancel-culture. It is tyranny personified and the public will reject it for that reason alone, but on a macro scale it simply dehumanizes the individual. It literally is why Trump increased his percentages of vote share with Asians, Hispanics, Jews, women, etc......

Identity politics is a loser. GOP remains focused on policy outcomes for individuals. No matter what color your skin is or what you want to do with the anatomy you were born with, you still need a job, a car, a meal, shelter, and a better life for yourself and your family. Identity politics will shatter on the base of Maslov's Hierarchy of Needs. The only question is how much damage occurs before it happens.

---

The danger exists because it's now clear that the GOP is afraid of alienating the identitarian alt-right, which includes white supremacists, anti-Semites, and others who are not very open to compromise. There are two possible results - either we go along and give them everything they want, or we lose them anyway but only after losing a lot of normal voters besides.

https://tnm.me/texit/referendum/how-much-support-is-there-for-texit

In 2009, Research 2000 conducted a poll of Texans and asked them this question: "Do you think Texas would be better off as an independent nation or as part of the United States of America?"

The results were trumpeted to the media and parroted by numerous media outlets. "Only 35% of the 600 Texans surveyed believed that Texas would be better off as an independent nation." However, the left-leaning Burnt Orange Report did something that most media outlets did not. They looked at the actual results and caught something that no other outlet bothered to check.

"The Research 2000 Texas Poll was conducted from April 20 through April 22, 2009. A total of 600 likely voters who vote regularly in state elections were interviewed statewide by telephone. The poll was 39% Republican, 33% Democrat, and 28% independent."

Looking at the breakdown by political affiliation changed the landscape. 48 percent of Republicans, 40 percent of independent voters, and 15 percent of Democrats believed that Texans would benefit from independence. The numerical breakdown matters, especially in a state where Republicans have a lock on every statewide office and where independents claim their electoral independence but typically vote for Republican candidates.

The percentages broken down by political affiliation weren't the only earth-shattering information in the poll. Also buried in that statement was the real key to unlocking the real impact of the survey. The respondents were likely voters who also regularly vote.

However, one poll does not make a trend. In 2014, a Reuters/IPSOS poll asked a slightly different question. Rather than asking a question about whether Texans felt they would be better off under the flag of independence, respondents were asked if they felt Texas should leave the Union. The difference between the two questions is very important. The Research 2000 poll was a question about perceived benefit. The Reuters/IPSOS question was a question of political will. The results, again broken down by political affiliation, showed 54 percent of Republicans, 49 percent of independent voters, and 35 percent of Democrats favored an independent Texas.

While the political trend obvious in these two polls is the growth of support for Texit and the strengthening of the attitudes of the voters, what goes virtually unnoticed by pundits is what these numbers look like in reality. When these percentages are overlaid with the actual voting patterns of Texans in statewide races, support for Texit, on average, polls anywhere from 6 to 10 percentage points higher than those who want to stay in the Union.

In addition, the depth and diversity of Texans in favor of independence would be the dream of a politician. The support of a majority of Republicans, nearly half of independents, and a substantial percentage of Democrats is enough to get anyone elected in Texas at any level. In short, if Texit were a political candidate, it could get elected to any statewide elected office.

However, those are just polls that ask simple binary questions with no consequence and no mechanism to measure the commitment of the respondent to Texit. And polls, as was shown in the 2016 U.S. presidential election cycle, can be deceiving. To get an idea of how Texit stacks up in the real world, and to get a better sense of the level of commitment of the supporters, one need only compare the leading organizational proponent of Texit, the TNM, to other major political advocacy organizations by measuring their membership or declared support numbers as a percentage of registered voters in the geographic areas they serve.

Among the top ten political organizations considered the most influential across all 50 States, membership figures for the National Organization of Women (0.34 percent), the NAACP (0.21 percent), the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League (0.68 percent), MoveOn (0.21 percent), and LULAC (0.09 percent), represent less than 1 percent of the registered voters. The National Rifle Association (3.42 percent), Americans for Prosperity (1.57 percent) and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (2.05 percent) are standouts in this group.

Among Texas-focused organizations, the powerful political action committee, Texans For Lawsuit Reform, only represented 0.11 percent of the registered voters in Texas with the current favorite cause of Governor Greg Abbott, the Texas branch of the Convention of States Project boasting dismal support of only 0.61 percent of Texas voters.

In comparison with all these organizations that are considered mainstream, the TNM has the declared support of 2.31 percent of Texas voters. Even in the seemingly more relevant 21st-century political battleground, social media, it has a larger social media following across all platforms than the Texas Republican and Democratic Parties combined.

quash said:

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whiterock said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

---

whiterock said:

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TexasScientist said:

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whiterock said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I've chosen to stay a Republican. I've been one all my life and I'm old. My party needs moderates whether the Trumpers want us or not.

I'm watching the fallout from the stunt Kelli WArd pulled in AZ with censuring Cindy McCain, jeff Flake and Doug Ducey. I was hoping Ward wouldnt be reelected and it was close but not enough.

---

The Democrats need the moderates, too. Please see what you can accomplish there.

Seriously. Go play with the social justice warriors for a while. perhaps it will give you new found appreciation for those you think so little of at the moment.

---

If mainstream normal Republicans leave the party, as some have, that leaves only the extreme radical right and a party that has no significance on a national scale.

---

Firstly, let's get the definitions right: data is clear that mainstream normal Republicans support Donald Trump, who has transformed the party coalition into a middle class, blue collar party which has demonstrated more appeal to minority groups than the GOP has enjoyed in decades.

The handful of establishment Republican virtue posturing fools like Flake and Sasse and McCain & such are not a significant piece of the party, and are vastly outnumbered by the new blood Trump has brought into the party. In 2016, fully a third of the delegates at the Texas GOP convention had never been involved in any party event before. Keep in mind, the Tx GOP convention is the largest political convention in the world, almost 9000 attendees, and it happens mid-week, so all these truckers & pipe fitters & such had to take vacation to attend. Trump literally inspired people who'd never been politically active before to engage, and it was the difference between success and failure.

I'm dead serious when I say the GOP neverTrumper crowd should join the Democrat Party. It's the Democrats who have left classical liberalism to embrace progressivism. It's the Democrats who have embraced socialism. It's the Democrats who embrace cancel culture. It's the Democrats who need to be moderated. So, seriously, please you and Romney and Team Moderate go moderate the Democrat Party for a change. If you are successful, we won't need DJT.

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You want a party of subjects, not citizens; followers of a person, not advocates for a country.

---

Well, that certainly tells us you don't want a serious discussion on why so many regular people want Trump.

---

Look at the most recent data on Trump supporters:
--91% of Trump voters would vote for him again

---

My point exactly: subjects, not citizens.

I got tossed out of a patriot group, that I had been invited to, the third time I pointed out that patriotism was loyalty to country, not a temporary occupant of the WH.

I agree that the woke crowd needs rebuttal. I disagree with thinking that only MAGA can do it. In fact, the left has been a great job pointing out the silliness in grievance studies, CRT, etc. See New Discourses or the Sokal-like publications by James Lindsay et al.

---

I think it is more complicated than that. Would I vote for Trump again? Yes, if he represented the party that reflects my beliefs the best.

I don't think Biden is a bad person...I just don't support the policies of the Democratic party.

So would I vote for Trump again? Yes, if he were the Republican nominee. Would I vote for him in the primaries? No. I didn't before and won't again.

Osodecentx said:

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D. C. Bear said:

---

Texasjeremy said:

---

https://tnm.me/news/political/the-campaign-to-scare-pro-texit-texans-has-begun

The campaign to scare Pro-TEXIT Texans has begun
The political establishment and less-than-courageous Texans have begun to spin up a Texas-version of Project: Fear to discourage Texans from standing up for TEXIT. Here's what they don't want you to know.

Texans don't scare. They also don't take kindly to people who use fear as a manipulation tactic. The political establishment and their enablers are taking a page from the losing side of the Brexit debate and trying to use fear to discourage Texans from taking back their political, cultural, and economic destiny. Even worse, they're using outright lies and ignorance to justify their position that Texans shouldn't even be able to vote on TEXIT.

It's disgusting and the typical behavior of an abuser. They should be ashamed.

It is true that Texas is highly integrated with the United States. However, these political and economic ties are not so tight or intricately interwoven that it would be impossible to untangle them. In many instances, it would not be necessary to untangle them at all. There is no part of the relationship between Texas and the rest of the United States that could not be accomplished by utilizing existing State-level institutions and agencies, executing bilateral agreements between Texas and the United States, or by Texas signing onto multilateral international agreements that are already in place.

Is the issue trade? Countries, including the United States, trade with one another every hour of every day and have done so for all of recorded human history. The free trade agreements that the United States already has in place for 20 other countries around the world treat trade with them as though they were one of the States of the Union. Yet no one would argue that any of those countries are inseparable members of the federal Union. Texas could execute a free trade agreement with the United States and adopt the United States tariff schedule with the World Trade Organization for external trade, and no one would even notice the difference.

Is the issue currency? If Texas needed or wanted to, it could adopt the U.S. dollar as its official currency in an informal currency union like many other countries have done. We don't need permission to do it. However, if Texas were so inclined and the United States were amenable, we could enter into an official currency union with the United States. Scotland proposed a similar move for itself and the United Kingdom ahead of its independence vote. This would be similar to the formal currency union that exists throughout the European Union.

Is the issue banking? Foreign banks are allowed to operate in the United States at this very moment with no trouble. That includes large retail banks like Compass and HSBC. In fact, more banks in Texas are State-chartered and State-regulated than those who are federally chartered and regulated.

Is the issue Social Security or other federal pension benefits? People live outside of the United States and collect their federal pensions, including Social Security, every month. The Social Security Administration has an entire section on its website and publishes numerous informational documents on this subject. Through totalization agreements with other countries, U.S. citizens work outside the United States and continue to pay into the United States Social Security system and vice versa.

Is the issue travel? Cars, planes, trucks, and trains move between the United States and other countries every day. Over 1 million people per day legally cross the border between the United States and Mexico for work or travel using only a "Border Crossing Card." No passport needed. This is essentially no different than traveling between Texas and Oklahoma, Louisiana, or New Mexico.

Perhaps the concerns are more about having the money to continue certain functions of government. Not a problem. Simple arithmetic proves the ability of an independent Texas to fund a government at the same level that Texans are currently accustomed to if that's what Texans want.

Texans currently pay, in all, federal and state taxes of $336 billion per year. This represents the total amount of revenue readily available to an independent Texas without increasing the financial burden on Texans one single cent. From that amount, subtract the amount spent by both the federal government and state government in Texas. $228 billion is the total amount of expenditures required to maintain every program, every job (both civilian and military), every department, every facility (including military bases) and fulfill every function (including current federal contract spending to Texas companies) provided by the federal and state governments. This level of government revenue would rank Texas 12th in the world for government revenue collected.

Somehow, since 1945, 140 new, formerly dependent countries have been able to "make it" as independent, self-governing nation-states. The unspoken assertion is that, to be able to do anything that Texas would have to do as an independent nation, it must be a part of the United States. The implication is that Texas, and Texans, aren't as good, as smart, or as capable as other nations.

This requires them to ignore the truth about how Texas stacks up against other self-governing countries in the world. In every category in which nation-states are traditionally compared, Texas overperforms.

• Texas has the 10th largest economy in the world.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in size.
• Texas ranks 47th in the world in population.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in the size of its labor force.
• Texas is a net global exporter ranking 22nd in the world and leading all other States in the United States.
• 93 percent of Texas exports are manufactured exports.
• Texas is the 12th largest technology exporter in the world.
• Texas ranks 19th in the world in the size of its active farms and ranches.
• Texas is the largest energy producer in the United States, accounting for more than half of the entire United States energy production and one-quarter of the refining capacity with over 26 petroleum refineries.
• Texas has the 7th largest coal reserves.
• Texas is the 6th largest producer of wind energy in the world.
• Texas has its own power grid.

These statistics, while impressive, don't tell the whole story. Texas not only does well in spite of the federal government, Texas is already structurally capable of doing everything that is traditionally done by a national government. In Texas, you will also find a state-level analog for every single cabinet-level federal department.

Texas even has its own military. The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the State of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state adjutant general, an appointee of the governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Texas governor. The State Guard, which is exclusively under the command of the governor, is divided into six army regiments, two air wings, three maritime regiments, and three medical battalions. The Texas Army National Guard consists of the 36th Infantry Division, 71st Troop Command, and the 176th Engineering Brigade. The Texas Air National Guard consists of the 149th Fighter Wing, 147th Attack Wing, and the 136th Airlift Wing.

Contrary to the opinion of some, Texas' attachment to the federal system is not a special case. There was no union in recent history with more power aggregated into a central government than the Soviet Union. Within an even tighter integration and under extreme economic stress, its constituent republics were able to extract themselves and become fully functioning nation-states. If the United States has truly become more centrally controlled than the Soviet Union, then it is no longer the United States. It has become the United State and no longer represents the vision of its founders.

If those who believe that separation is too difficult are to be believed, and today it is too complicated, tomorrow it will be more so and the day after harder still. If this argument is true, then Texas is destined to fall ever deeper into the depths of the federal system until Texas is only a distant memory that exists in a history book.

It is a false argument and one that strikes counter to everything Texans have historically believed about themselves. It runs contrary to the reputation gained by Texans around the world. It is the same argument made by "helicopter parents" for why their children should still live at home well into their thirties. And it's the excuse used by socially stunted adults, well into their thirties, as to why they still live with mommy and daddy.

Ultimately, Texans bristle at the suggestion that we simply aren't good enough to govern ourselves. We reject the idea that independence can't be done as we remember the old adage that, "If you want something done, tell a Texan that it can't be done."

The real question is this: Given all our natural advantages, if Texas can't make it as an independent nation, then who can?

Read more FACTS about TEXIT here: https://tnm.me/texit

---

How about this: no thanks, *******s, I want to be a Texan AND an American.

---

Yep. I don't believe Texit appeals to normal people. It seems to attract cartoon characters looking for a headline

---

Like who?

Texasjeremy said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Texasjeremy said:

---

https://tnm.me/news/political/the-campaign-to-scare-pro-texit-texans-has-begun

The campaign to scare Pro-TEXIT Texans has begun
The political establishment and less-than-courageous Texans have begun to spin up a Texas-version of Project: Fear to discourage Texans from standing up for TEXIT. Here's what they don't want you to know.

Texans don't scare. They also don't take kindly to people who use fear as a manipulation tactic. The political establishment and their enablers are taking a page from the losing side of the Brexit debate and trying to use fear to discourage Texans from taking back their political, cultural, and economic destiny. Even worse, they're using outright lies and ignorance to justify their position that Texans shouldn't even be able to vote on TEXIT.

It's disgusting and the typical behavior of an abuser. They should be ashamed.

It is true that Texas is highly integrated with the United States. However, these political and economic ties are not so tight or intricately interwoven that it would be impossible to untangle them. In many instances, it would not be necessary to untangle them at all. There is no part of the relationship between Texas and the rest of the United States that could not be accomplished by utilizing existing State-level institutions and agencies, executing bilateral agreements between Texas and the United States, or by Texas signing onto multilateral international agreements that are already in place.

Is the issue trade? Countries, including the United States, trade with one another every hour of every day and have done so for all of recorded human history. The free trade agreements that the United States already has in place for 20 other countries around the world treat trade with them as though they were one of the States of the Union. Yet no one would argue that any of those countries are inseparable members of the federal Union. Texas could execute a free trade agreement with the United States and adopt the United States tariff schedule with the World Trade Organization for external trade, and no one would even notice the difference.

Is the issue currency? If Texas needed or wanted to, it could adopt the U.S. dollar as its official currency in an informal currency union like many other countries have done. We don't need permission to do it. However, if Texas were so inclined and the United States were amenable, we could enter into an official currency union with the United States. Scotland proposed a similar move for itself and the United Kingdom ahead of its independence vote. This would be similar to the formal currency union that exists throughout the European Union.

Is the issue banking? Foreign banks are allowed to operate in the United States at this very moment with no trouble. That includes large retail banks like Compass and HSBC. In fact, more banks in Texas are State-chartered and State-regulated than those who are federally chartered and regulated.

Is the issue Social Security or other federal pension benefits? People live outside of the United States and collect their federal pensions, including Social Security, every month. The Social Security Administration has an entire section on its website and publishes numerous informational documents on this subject. Through totalization agreements with other countries, U.S. citizens work outside the United States and continue to pay into the United States Social Security system and vice versa.

Is the issue travel? Cars, planes, trucks, and trains move between the United States and other countries every day. Over 1 million people per day legally cross the border between the United States and Mexico for work or travel using only a "Border Crossing Card." No passport needed. This is essentially no different than traveling between Texas and Oklahoma, Louisiana, or New Mexico.

Perhaps the concerns are more about having the money to continue certain functions of government. Not a problem. Simple arithmetic proves the ability of an independent Texas to fund a government at the same level that Texans are currently accustomed to if that's what Texans want.

Texans currently pay, in all, federal and state taxes of $336 billion per year. This represents the total amount of revenue readily available to an independent Texas without increasing the financial burden on Texans one single cent. From that amount, subtract the amount spent by both the federal government and state government in Texas. $228 billion is the total amount of expenditures required to maintain every program, every job (both civilian and military), every department, every facility (including military bases) and fulfill every function (including current federal contract spending to Texas companies) provided by the federal and state governments. This level of government revenue would rank Texas 12th in the world for government revenue collected.

Somehow, since 1945, 140 new, formerly dependent countries have been able to "make it" as independent, self-governing nation-states. The unspoken assertion is that, to be able to do anything that Texas would have to do as an independent nation, it must be a part of the United States. The implication is that Texas, and Texans, aren't as good, as smart, or as capable as other nations.

This requires them to ignore the truth about how Texas stacks up against other self-governing countries in the world. In every category in which nation-states are traditionally compared, Texas overperforms.

• Texas has the 10th largest economy in the world.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in size.
• Texas ranks 47th in the world in population.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in the size of its labor force.
• Texas is a net global exporter ranking 22nd in the world and leading all other States in the United States.
• 93 percent of Texas exports are manufactured exports.
• Texas is the 12th largest technology exporter in the world.
• Texas ranks 19th in the world in the size of its active farms and ranches.
• Texas is the largest energy producer in the United States, accounting for more than half of the entire United States energy production and one-quarter of the refining capacity with over 26 petroleum refineries.
• Texas has the 7th largest coal reserves.
• Texas is the 6th largest producer of wind energy in the world.
• Texas has its own power grid.

These statistics, while impressive, don't tell the whole story. Texas not only does well in spite of the federal government, Texas is already structurally capable of doing everything that is traditionally done by a national government. In Texas, you will also find a state-level analog for every single cabinet-level federal department.

Texas even has its own military. The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the State of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state adjutant general, an appointee of the governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Texas governor. The State Guard, which is exclusively under the command of the governor, is divided into six army regiments, two air wings, three maritime regiments, and three medical battalions. The Texas Army National Guard consists of the 36th Infantry Division, 71st Troop Command, and the 176th Engineering Brigade. The Texas Air National Guard consists of the 149th Fighter Wing, 147th Attack Wing, and the 136th Airlift Wing.

Contrary to the opinion of some, Texas' attachment to the federal system is not a special case. There was no union in recent history with more power aggregated into a central government than the Soviet Union. Within an even tighter integration and under extreme economic stress, its constituent republics were able to extract themselves and become fully functioning nation-states. If the United States has truly become more centrally controlled than the Soviet Union, then it is no longer the United States. It has become the United State and no longer represents the vision of its founders.

If those who believe that separation is too difficult are to be believed, and today it is too complicated, tomorrow it will be more so and the day after harder still. If this argument is true, then Texas is destined to fall ever deeper into the depths of the federal system until Texas is only a distant memory that exists in a history book.

It is a false argument and one that strikes counter to everything Texans have historically believed about themselves. It runs contrary to the reputation gained by Texans around the world. It is the same argument made by "helicopter parents" for why their children should still live at home well into their thirties. And it's the excuse used by socially stunted adults, well into their thirties, as to why they still live with mommy and daddy.

Ultimately, Texans bristle at the suggestion that we simply aren't good enough to govern ourselves. We reject the idea that independence can't be done as we remember the old adage that, "If you want something done, tell a Texan that it can't be done."

The real question is this: Given all our natural advantages, if Texas can't make it as an independent nation, then who can?

Read more FACTS about TEXIT here: https://tnm.me/texit

---

How about this: no thanks, *******s, I want to be a Texan AND an American.

---

Yep. I don't believe Texit appeals to normal people. It seems to attract cartoon characters looking for a headline

---

Like who?

---

See the post of Texasjeremy in which he quotes a state rep.
Page 4 of this thread, 1/29, at 1:09.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

Not at all.

This is not MY Republican Party

This is not MY Democratic Party

This is not MY Episcopal church

This is not MY Baylor University

This is not MY drug-addicted spouse

This is not MY America

All of the things listed above provide opportunities to change or influence them in a positive manner and while in a position of deeper involvement. However, at a certain point, individuals will decide for themselves that the point of positive influence no longer exist and it is time to exit that relationship. It doesn't mean that the love is gone but, it may mean that the disgust outweighs that love.

---

I used to think that this was "my" town
What a stupid thing to think

- Jason Isbell

Midnight Rider said:

---

There's a certain contradiction between loving your country and wanting to secede from it.

---

I love some of what's left of our country. However, if it keeps spiraling downhill I can't see myself accepting living here. I don't want my kids or grand kids growing up in this environment. We can do better and our founding fathers intended better for us. We've jumped off the rails!

Before it gets any worse I am willing to support Texans voting on secession. Washington DC is corrupt, morally bankrupt, too liberal and it will NEVER get better going forward. We are spinning our wheels if we think we can see a change.

Texasjeremy said:

---

https://tnm.me/texit/referendum/how-much-support-is-there-for-texit

In 2009, Research 2000 conducted a poll of Texans and asked them this question: "Do you think Texas would be better off as an independent nation or as part of the United States of America?"

The results were trumpeted to the media and parroted by numerous media outlets. "Only 35% of the 600 Texans surveyed believed that Texas would be better off as an independent nation." However, the left-leaning Burnt Orange Report did something that most media outlets did not. They looked at the actual results and caught something that no other outlet bothered to check.

"The Research 2000 Texas Poll was conducted from April 20 through April 22, 2009. A total of 600 likely voters who vote regularly in state elections were interviewed statewide by telephone. The poll was 39% Republican, 33% Democrat, and 28% independent."

Looking at the breakdown by political affiliation changed the landscape. 48 percent of Republicans, 40 percent of independent voters, and 15 percent of Democrats believed that Texans would benefit from independence. The numerical breakdown matters, especially in a state where Republicans have a lock on every statewide office and where independents claim their electoral independence but typically vote for Republican candidates.

The percentages broken down by political affiliation weren't the only earth-shattering information in the poll. Also buried in that statement was the real key to unlocking the real impact of the survey. The respondents were likely voters who also regularly vote.

However, one poll does not make a trend. In 2014, a Reuters/IPSOS poll asked a slightly different question. Rather than asking a question about whether Texans felt they would be better off under the flag of independence, respondents were asked if they felt Texas should leave the Union. The difference between the two questions is very important. The Research 2000 poll was a question about perceived benefit. The Reuters/IPSOS question was a question of political will. The results, again broken down by political affiliation, showed 54 percent of Republicans, 49 percent of independent voters, and 35 percent of Democrats favored an independent Texas.

While the political trend obvious in these two polls is the growth of support for Texit and the strengthening of the attitudes of the voters, what goes virtually unnoticed by pundits is what these numbers look like in reality. When these percentages are overlaid with the actual voting patterns of Texans in statewide races, support for Texit, on average, polls anywhere from 6 to 10 percentage points higher than those who want to stay in the Union.

In addition, the depth and diversity of Texans in favor of independence would be the dream of a politician. The support of a majority of Republicans, nearly half of independents, and a substantial percentage of Democrats is enough to get anyone elected in Texas at any level. In short, if Texit were a political candidate, it could get elected to any statewide elected office.

However, those are just polls that ask simple binary questions with no consequence and no mechanism to measure the commitment of the respondent to Texit. And polls, as was shown in the 2016 U.S. presidential election cycle, can be deceiving. To get an idea of how Texit stacks up in the real world, and to get a better sense of the level of commitment of the supporters, one need only compare the leading organizational proponent of Texit, the TNM, to other major political advocacy organizations by measuring their membership or declared support numbers as a percentage of registered voters in the geographic areas they serve.

Among the top ten political organizations considered the most influential across all 50 States, membership figures for the National Organization of Women (0.34 percent), the NAACP (0.21 percent), the National Abortion and Reproductive Rights Action League (0.68 percent), MoveOn (0.21 percent), and LULAC (0.09 percent), represent less than 1 percent of the registered voters. The National Rifle Association (3.42 percent), Americans for Prosperity (1.57 percent) and the U.S. Chamber of Commerce (2.05 percent) are standouts in this group.

Among Texas-focused organizations, the powerful political action committee, Texans For Lawsuit Reform, only represented 0.11 percent of the registered voters in Texas with the current favorite cause of Governor Greg Abbott, the Texas branch of the Convention of States Project boasting dismal support of only 0.61 percent of Texas voters.

In comparison with all these organizations that are considered mainstream, the TNM has the declared support of 2.31 percent of Texas voters. Even in the seemingly more relevant 21st-century political battleground, social media, it has a larger social media following across all platforms than the Texas Republican and Democratic Parties combined.

---

Brush up on your Spanish, because if you get what you want, it will be the official language of a Mexican state. Necesitar hablar espaol para sobrevivir.

TexasScientist said:

---

Brush up on your Spanish, because if you get what you want, it will be the official language of a Mexican state. Necesitar hablar espaol para sobrevivir.

---

I'd rather brush up on Spanish than Cantonese, Mandarin, Arabic, Vietnamese or even EBONICS.

When you hear Spanish being spoken WORK is most likely being done.

Thee University said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Brush up on your Spanish, because if you get what you want, it will be the official language of a Mexican state. Necesitar hablar espaol para sobrevivir.

---

I'd rather brush up on Spanish than Cantonese, Mandarin, Arabic, Vietnamese or even EBONICS.

When you hear Spanish being spoken WORK is most likely being done.

---

I don't want to live under any country where any of those languages are official. BTW there is a lot of WORK being done in China and Vietnam.

Osodecentx said:

---

Texasjeremy said:

---

Osodecentx said:

---

D. C. Bear said:

---

Texasjeremy said:

---

https://tnm.me/news/political/the-campaign-to-scare-pro-texit-texans-has-begun

The campaign to scare Pro-TEXIT Texans has begun
The political establishment and less-than-courageous Texans have begun to spin up a Texas-version of Project: Fear to discourage Texans from standing up for TEXIT. Here's what they don't want you to know.

Texans don't scare. They also don't take kindly to people who use fear as a manipulation tactic. The political establishment and their enablers are taking a page from the losing side of the Brexit debate and trying to use fear to discourage Texans from taking back their political, cultural, and economic destiny. Even worse, they're using outright lies and ignorance to justify their position that Texans shouldn't even be able to vote on TEXIT.

It's disgusting and the typical behavior of an abuser. They should be ashamed.

It is true that Texas is highly integrated with the United States. However, these political and economic ties are not so tight or intricately interwoven that it would be impossible to untangle them. In many instances, it would not be necessary to untangle them at all. There is no part of the relationship between Texas and the rest of the United States that could not be accomplished by utilizing existing State-level institutions and agencies, executing bilateral agreements between Texas and the United States, or by Texas signing onto multilateral international agreements that are already in place.

Is the issue trade? Countries, including the United States, trade with one another every hour of every day and have done so for all of recorded human history. The free trade agreements that the United States already has in place for 20 other countries around the world treat trade with them as though they were one of the States of the Union. Yet no one would argue that any of those countries are inseparable members of the federal Union. Texas could execute a free trade agreement with the United States and adopt the United States tariff schedule with the World Trade Organization for external trade, and no one would even notice the difference.

Is the issue currency? If Texas needed or wanted to, it could adopt the U.S. dollar as its official currency in an informal currency union like many other countries have done. We don't need permission to do it. However, if Texas were so inclined and the United States were amenable, we could enter into an official currency union with the United States. Scotland proposed a similar move for itself and the United Kingdom ahead of its independence vote. This would be similar to the formal currency union that exists throughout the European Union.

Is the issue banking? Foreign banks are allowed to operate in the United States at this very moment with no trouble. That includes large retail banks like Compass and HSBC. In fact, more banks in Texas are State-chartered and State-regulated than those who are federally chartered and regulated.

Is the issue Social Security or other federal pension benefits? People live outside of the United States and collect their federal pensions, including Social Security, every month. The Social Security Administration has an entire section on its website and publishes numerous informational documents on this subject. Through totalization agreements with other countries, U.S. citizens work outside the United States and continue to pay into the United States Social Security system and vice versa.

Is the issue travel? Cars, planes, trucks, and trains move between the United States and other countries every day. Over 1 million people per day legally cross the border between the United States and Mexico for work or travel using only a "Border Crossing Card." No passport needed. This is essentially no different than traveling between Texas and Oklahoma, Louisiana, or New Mexico.

Perhaps the concerns are more about having the money to continue certain functions of government. Not a problem. Simple arithmetic proves the ability of an independent Texas to fund a government at the same level that Texans are currently accustomed to if that's what Texans want.

Texans currently pay, in all, federal and state taxes of $336 billion per year. This represents the total amount of revenue readily available to an independent Texas without increasing the financial burden on Texans one single cent. From that amount, subtract the amount spent by both the federal government and state government in Texas. $228 billion is the total amount of expenditures required to maintain every program, every job (both civilian and military), every department, every facility (including military bases) and fulfill every function (including current federal contract spending to Texas companies) provided by the federal and state governments. This level of government revenue would rank Texas 12th in the world for government revenue collected.

Somehow, since 1945, 140 new, formerly dependent countries have been able to "make it" as independent, self-governing nation-states. The unspoken assertion is that, to be able to do anything that Texas would have to do as an independent nation, it must be a part of the United States. The implication is that Texas, and Texans, aren't as good, as smart, or as capable as other nations.

This requires them to ignore the truth about how Texas stacks up against other self-governing countries in the world. In every category in which nation-states are traditionally compared, Texas overperforms.

• Texas has the 10th largest economy in the world.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in size.
• Texas ranks 47th in the world in population.
• Texas ranks 40th in the world in the size of its labor force.
• Texas is a net global exporter ranking 22nd in the world and leading all other States in the United States.
• 93 percent of Texas exports are manufactured exports.
• Texas is the 12th largest technology exporter in the world.
• Texas ranks 19th in the world in the size of its active farms and ranches.
• Texas is the largest energy producer in the United States, accounting for more than half of the entire United States energy production and one-quarter of the refining capacity with over 26 petroleum refineries.
• Texas has the 7th largest coal reserves.
• Texas is the 6th largest producer of wind energy in the world.
• Texas has its own power grid.

These statistics, while impressive, don't tell the whole story. Texas not only does well in spite of the federal government, Texas is already structurally capable of doing everything that is traditionally done by a national government. In Texas, you will also find a state-level analog for every single cabinet-level federal department.

Texas even has its own military. The Texas Military Department is composed of the three branches of the military in the State of Texas. These branches are the Texas Army National Guard, the Texas Air National Guard, and the Texas State Guard. All three branches are administered by the state adjutant general, an appointee of the governor of Texas, and fall under the command of the Texas governor. The State Guard, which is exclusively under the command of the governor, is divided into six army regiments, two air wings, three maritime regiments, and three medical battalions. The Texas Army National Guard consists of the 36th Infantry Division, 71st Troop Command, and the 176th Engineering Brigade. The Texas Air National Guard consists of the 149th Fighter Wing, 147th Attack Wing, and the 136th Airlift Wing.

Contrary to the opinion of some, Texas' attachment to the federal system is not a special case. There was no union in recent history with more power aggregated into a central government than the Soviet Union. Within an even tighter integration and under extreme economic stress, its constituent republics were able to extract themselves and become fully functioning nation-states. If the United States has truly become more centrally controlled than the Soviet Union, then it is no longer the United States. It has become the United State and no longer represents the vision of its founders.

If those who believe that separation is too difficult are to be believed, and today it is too complicated, tomorrow it will be more so and the day after harder still. If this argument is true, then Texas is destined to fall ever deeper into the depths of the federal system until Texas is only a distant memory that exists in a history book.

It is a false argument and one that strikes counter to everything Texans have historically believed about themselves. It runs contrary to the reputation gained by Texans around the world. It is the same argument made by "helicopter parents" for why their children should still live at home well into their thirties. And it's the excuse used by socially stunted adults, well into their thirties, as to why they still live with mommy and daddy.

Ultimately, Texans bristle at the suggestion that we simply aren't good enough to govern ourselves. We reject the idea that independence can't be done as we remember the old adage that, "If you want something done, tell a Texan that it can't be done."

The real question is this: Given all our natural advantages, if Texas can't make it as an independent nation, then who can?

Read more FACTS about TEXIT here: https://tnm.me/texit

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How about this: no thanks, *******s, I want to be a Texan AND an American.

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Yep. I don't believe Texit appeals to normal people. It seems to attract cartoon characters looking for a headline

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Like who?

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See the post of Texasjeremy in which he quotes a state rep.
Page 4 of this thread, 1/29, at 1:09.

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So someone that says the people should have a say in how they are governed is now a "cartoon character"? In my experience, military veterans seem to make up a decent % of TEXIT supporters.