Del Rio Border

43,166 Views | 607 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by Cobretti
Wangchung
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quash said:

GrowlTowel said:

quash said:

Wangchung said:

The kids of illegal aliens use government assistance, because they do qualify. Anchor babies are more than an excuse to get to stay in country. Legal immigrants are fantastic for our country, but that's a separate topic.

So you're talking about citizens?

How so?

See both his posts. He's plainly talking about kids born here ("anchor babies" to "get benefits").

So he's whining about citizens.

Loophole, anchor baby, exploitation of our immigration laws, "citizens" strategically birthed in order to enable illegal aliens to game our welfare systems… there are many ways to say the same thing, but make no mistake they ARE the same thing. Denying these facts and conflating legal and illegal immigrants isn't a great argument.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
quash
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OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

quash said:

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

Disgusting why would we want people like that in our country? They don't even care enough about their homeland to make it better. They won't learn english or otherwise assimilate and willl extend the cycle of poverty.

I never had an affinity for weak people.


Wrong, wrong

Immigrants learn English at the same rate as they always have and currently intermarry at higher rates. They tend to hold jobs and support their family and use less government assistance.



Right that's why down in san antonio they got billboards in Spanish?

Thats why over in Minneapolis they got billboards in Somali?

Have you heard of title 1 schools? ESL schools? Unisured healthcare, etc

Saying the same rate as always isn't really countering that the rate is terrible.

The rate is fine. You get to grow up and live in a country that is your native tongue. But go ahead and get judge about immigrants, it's an American tradition.

And if you have a better metric for assimilation than the one I offered feel free to post it.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
quash
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Wangchung said:

quash said:

GrowlTowel said:

quash said:

Wangchung said:

The kids of illegal aliens use government assistance, because they do qualify. Anchor babies are more than an excuse to get to stay in country. Legal immigrants are fantastic for our country, but that's a separate topic.

So you're talking about citizens?

How so?

See both his posts. He's plainly talking about kids born here ("anchor babies" to "get benefits").

So he's whining about citizens.

Loophole, anchor baby, exploitation of our immigration laws, "citizens" strategically birthed in order to enable illegal aliens to game our welfare systems… there are many ways to say the same thing, but make no mistake they ARE the same thing. Denying these facts and conflating legal and illegal immigrants isn't a great argument.


All of which is to say you're fine with a caste system of citizenship.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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quash said:

Wangchung said:

quash said:

GrowlTowel said:

quash said:

Wangchung said:

The kids of illegal aliens use government assistance, because they do qualify. Anchor babies are more than an excuse to get to stay in country. Legal immigrants are fantastic for our country, but that's a separate topic.

So you're talking about citizens?

How so?

See both his posts. He's plainly talking about kids born here ("anchor babies" to "get benefits").

So he's whining about citizens.

Loophole, anchor baby, exploitation of our immigration laws, "citizens" strategically birthed in order to enable illegal aliens to game our welfare systems… there are many ways to say the same thing, but make no mistake they ARE the same thing. Denying these facts and conflating legal and illegal immigrants isn't a great argument.


All of which is to say you're fine with a caste system of citizenship.

Right. The person who wants controlled borders and sped up legal immigration processes is for a caste system and the people who want status quo open borders where tens of millions of people aren't deported but still live a shadow life unable to do basic things a citizen can do like travel, get insurance, get a drivers license in most states, call police for help, be paid legal wages and have all the rights and protections of a normal citizen are for equality. Way to work that one out. Hahaha
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Polo Bear
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quash said:

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

quash said:

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

Disgusting why would we want people like that in our country? They don't even care enough about their homeland to make it better. They won't learn english or otherwise assimilate and willl extend the cycle of poverty.

I never had an affinity for weak people.


Wrong, wrong

Immigrants learn English at the same rate as they always have and currently intermarry at higher rates. They tend to hold jobs and support their family and use less government assistance.



Right that's why down in san antonio they got billboards in Spanish?

Thats why over in Minneapolis they got billboards in Somali?

Have you heard of title 1 schools? ESL schools? Unisured healthcare, etc

Saying the same rate as always isn't really countering that the rate is terrible.

The rate is fine. You get to grow up and live in a country that is your native tongue. But go ahead and get judge about immigrants, it's an American tradition.

And if you have a better metric for assimilation than the one I offered feel free to post it.



I speak 3 languages, English, Spanish and German. So nice try. But you are right I grew up in a country in which I could speak the language. That's true of 99% of people. Albeit some grow up in countries that speak multiple languages.

Yes we are a nation of immigrants, however when my great great grandfather immigrated there were no social programs to help keep him and his family alive. It was sink or swim.

The rate is terrible, the poverty rates of non-english speakers is atrocious, but rightfully so, they are too lazy to learn English. Many of these people passed threw multiple countries that speak their language, they chose to go to onw that doesnt. That's foolish. Why don't you go live in the Netherlands? Apparently the quality of life is better over there.

My views on immigration are similar to how most of the world views it: only take the best and brightest, only take x amount.

Once you understand that internationally its anarchy and survival of the fittest cultures, you will understand that taking the weakest of the weak leads to disaster. It always does.

Why should my tax dollars, hard earned, go towards immigrants? They don't deserve my money.


Edit: you also wanna know the demographics in Texas that are most upset about the border crisis? Hispanics at the border: they've all gone cuban-Florida republican.
quash
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OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

quash said:

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

quash said:

OriginalUniversityOfTexas said:

Disgusting why would we want people like that in our country? They don't even care enough about their homeland to make it better. They won't learn english or otherwise assimilate and willl extend the cycle of poverty.

I never had an affinity for weak people.


Wrong, wrong

Immigrants learn English at the same rate as they always have and currently intermarry at higher rates. They tend to hold jobs and support their family and use less government assistance.



Right that's why down in san antonio they got billboards in Spanish?

Thats why over in Minneapolis they got billboards in Somali?

Have you heard of title 1 schools? ESL schools? Unisured healthcare, etc

Saying the same rate as always isn't really countering that the rate is terrible.

The rate is fine. You get to grow up and live in a country that is your native tongue. But go ahead and get judge about immigrants, it's an American tradition.

And if you have a better metric for assimilation than the one I offered feel free to post it.



I speak 3 languages, English, Spanish and German. So nice try. But you are right I grew up in a country in which I could speak the language. That's true of 99% of people. Albeit some grow up in countries that speak multiple languages.

Yes we are a nation of immigrants, however when my great great grandfather immigrated there were no social programs to help keep him and his family alive. It was sink or swim.

The rate is terrible, the poverty rates of non-english speakers is atrocious, but rightfully so, they are too lazy to learn English. Many of these people passed threw multiple countries that speak their language, they chose to go to onw that doesnt. That's foolish. Why don't you go live in the Netherlands? Apparently the quality of life is better over there.

My views on immigration are similar to how most of the world views it: only take the best and brightest, only take x amount.

Once you understand that internationally its anarchy and survival of the fittest cultures, you will understand that taking the weakest of the weak leads to disaster. It always does.

Why should my tax dollars, hard earned, go towards immigrants? They don't deserve my money.


Edit: you also wanna know the demographics in Texas that are most upset about the border crisis? Hispanics at the border: they've all gone cuban-Florida republican.

I've got ancestors from the Netherlands and was just there in August. They all speak multiple languages because, ad they say, "nobody speaks Dutch."

I don't care how many languages you speak, you still gree up speaking the dominant language. And you still don't get that current migrants are assimilating faster than did your great grandfather.

And why do you keep repeating the lie about immigrants and welfare? They're not eligible.

As to your hard earned tac dollars: undocumented workers pay taxes, too. Find something else to melt down over. Maybe boycott all the companies that employ undocumented workers.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Oh look, no one noticed the conflation of illegal and legal immigrants. Again.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
quash
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Wangchung said:

Oh look, no one noticed the conflation of illegal and legal immigrants. Again.

Do you have something to say about assimilation rates?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Absolutely. People who live in multi-family units in homes meant as single family use aren't assimilating. People who learn enough English to get by aren't necessarily assimilating, either. People who refuse to abide by our laws are NOT assimilating at all. Hope this helps guide us you in further conversations on this topic.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
quash
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Wangchung said:

Absolutely. People who live in multi-family units in homes meant as single family use aren't assimilating. People who learn enough English to get by aren't necessarily assimilating, either. People who refuse to abide by our laws are NOT assimilating at all. Hope this helps guide us you in further conversations on this topic.

If you only focus on anecdotal failures you miss the larger success data.

From the linked study:
The growing diversity of the U.S. population raises questions about integration among America's fastest growing minority population: Hispanics. The canonical view is that intermarriage with the native-born White population represents a pathway to assimilation that varies over geographic space in response to uneven marital opportunities. Using data on past-year marriage from the 2009-2014 American Community Survey, the authors demonstrate high rates of intermarriage among Hispanics.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Super. We are discussing illegal aliens, not Hispanics.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
quash
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Wangchung said:

Super. We are discussing illegal aliens, not Hispanics.

The people we were discussing who didn't learn English: what is their native language?

“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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The illegal aliens we are discussing can be from literally any other country on this planet. You tell me. Or is it your racist assumption that all illegal aliens are Hispanic?!? (Joking)
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
Wangchung
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From what I read your link focused on Hispanic assimilating by mixed marriage and didn't differentiate between legal and non-legal.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?
quash
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Wangchung said:

From what I read your link focused on Hispanic assimilating by mixed marriage and didn't differentiate between legal and non-legal.

It doesn't need to. The (racist?) complaint is that they are not assimilating as quickly as did prior immigrant cohorts; they are, demonstrably. Cultural assimilation does not depend on your immigration status.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Actually it does. The American culture is one that abides by the law. By definition someone here illegally is not assimilating.
quash
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Wangchung said:

Actually it does. The American culture is one that abides by the law. By definition someone here illegally is not assimilating.


Well sure, if you want to define your way out of your hole.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Never in a hole. We have been discussing illegal aliens and the open border while you've been trying to talk about all immigrants as a whole followed by claiming illegals assimilate faster than any other group because Hispanics, (legal and illegal) who mix marry with citizens assimilate quickly. You're desperate to try and ignore the topic of illegal aliens by making this about all immigrants or even all Hispanics. You and I and everyone else know exactly why you won't stick to the topic of illegal aliens.
quash
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Wangchung said:

Never in a hole. We have been discussing illegal aliens and the open border while you've been trying to talk about all immigrants as a whole followed by claiming illegals assimilate faster than any other group because Hispanics, (legal and illegal) who mix marry with citizens assimilate quickly. You're desperate to try and ignore the topic of illegal aliens by making this about all immigrants or even all Hispanics. You and I and everyone else know exactly why you won't stick to the topic of illegal aliens.

Sigh.

All the fear mongering is about Hispanic immigration.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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I reject your premise that wanting a controlled border and pointing out the problems arising without one is mere fear mongering. No, the discussion here is about illegal aliens and the open border policies of the Left. Not Hispanics, not legal immigrants, the topic is illegal aliens.
Osodecentx
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quash said:

Wangchung said:

Never in a hole. We have been discussing illegal aliens and the open border while you've been trying to talk about all immigrants as a whole followed by claiming illegals assimilate faster than any other group because Hispanics, (legal and illegal) who mix marry with citizens assimilate quickly. You're desperate to try and ignore the topic of illegal aliens by making this about all immigrants or even all Hispanics. You and I and everyone else know exactly why you won't stick to the topic of illegal aliens.

Sigh.

All the fear mongering is about Hispanic immigration.

Legal Hispanic immigration? Or illegal?
quash
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Wangchung said:

I reject your premise that wanting a controlled border and pointing out the problems arising without one is mere fear mongering. No, the discussion here is about illegal aliens and the open border policies of the Left. Not Hispanics, not legal immigrants, the topic is illegal aliens.

Yes. And whether they assimilate or not. I didn't start the assimilation issue, I just brought data to the discussion to refute a point.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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Your data proved nothing. It was about assimilation rates of Hispanics who marry citizens. It had nothing to do with illegal aliens. And before you waste time looking for a study on it, the assimilation rate of Asians who marry citizens isn't relevant, either.
quash
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Wangchung said:

Your data proved nothing. It was about assimilation rates of Hispanics who marry citizens. It had nothing to do with illegal aliens. And before you waste time looking for a study on it, the assimilation rate of Asians who marry citizens isn't relevant, either.

It has everything with assimilation rates of Hispanics, legally immigrated or not. Read it.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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I did read it. That's how a I know it's irrelevant to the discussion as long as illegal and legal immigrants are measured as a whole. Shrug emoji
quash
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Wangchung said:

I did read it. That's how a I know it's irrelevant to the discussion as long as illegal and legal immigrants are measured as a whole. Shrug emoji

That would be true if immigration status caused a change in cultural assimilation. It doesn't. Unless you have data that says it does...
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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The problem you're ignoring is that we aren't speaking of legal immigrants, so measuring any group in those analyses that isn't illegal means the data is skewed and therefore useless when the topic is illegal aliens.
quash
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quash said:

Wangchung said:

I did read it. That's how a I know it's irrelevant to the discussion as long as illegal and legal immigrants are measured as a whole. Shrug emoji

That would be true if immigration status caused a change in cultural assimilation. It doesn't. Unless you have data that says it does...


...
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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You have no data that proves otherwise. Remaining illegal is the definition of non-assimilation.
quash
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Wangchung said:

You have no data that proves otherwise. Remaining illegal is the definition of non-assimilation.


Again you ate defining your way out of the problem. Mexican immigrants, legal or not, assimilate more quickly than previous national cohorts using intermarriage as a barometer.

I asked you for a different metric of assimilation and the best you can offer is "illegal is unassimilated."

Assimilation takes place over generations. That's why many of us had great grandparents who didn't speak English, and parents who can't speak their great grandparents's language.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
Wangchung
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quash said:

Wangchung said:

You have no data that proves otherwise. Remaining illegal is the definition of non-assimilation.


Again you ate defining your way out of the problem. Mexican immigrants, legal or not, assimilate more quickly than previous national cohorts using intermarriage as a barometer.

I asked you for a different metric of assimilation and the best you can offer is "illegal is unassimilated."

Assimilation takes place over generations. That's why many of us had great grandparents who didn't speak English, and parents who can't speak their great grandparents's language.

The topic isn't legal immigrants. I get it, you can't get the results you want when only illegal alien's assimilation metric are measured, so you HAVE to include legal. You also have to change the definition of illegal alien to mean "Hispanics" in order to push your opinion that illegals assimilate faster than older groups of legal immigrants. Your theory is garbage.
jupiter
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https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-army/2021/12/08/death-drugs-and-a-disbanded-unit-how-the-guards-mexico-border-mission-fell-apart/?utm_campaign=Socialflow+ARM&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2MhJ3j1ciadiUoKqqiOaZTtr1esuUaqUq6ImqAI_6tphll3btQ4dqF1FI
Wangchung
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Two civilians are confirmed dead after an alleged human smuggler transporting illegal migrants collided with their vehicle.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/two-civilians-killed-human-smuggler-211726763.html
Wangchung
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CHEPOL, Guatemala (AP) Anxiety was high Saturday in Guatemala amid uncertainty about loved ones who might have been on the tractor-trailer that crashed in southern Mexico while jammed with smuggled migrants, killing 55 people and injuring more than 100.


https://www.yahoo.com/news/battered-survivors-tell-mexico-truck-050215373.html
quash
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Wangchung said:

quash said:

Wangchung said:

You have no data that proves otherwise. Remaining illegal is the definition of non-assimilation.


Again you ate defining your way out of the problem. Mexican immigrants, legal or not, assimilate more quickly than previous national cohorts using intermarriage as a barometer.

I asked you for a different metric of assimilation and the best you can offer is "illegal is unassimilated."

Assimilation takes place over generations. That's why many of us had great grandparents who didn't speak English, and parents who can't speak their great grandparents's language.

The topic isn't legal immigrants. I get it, you can't get the results you want when only illegal alien's assimilation metric are measured, so you HAVE to include legal. You also have to change the definition of illegal alien to mean "Hispanics" in order to push your opinion that illegals assimilate faster than older groups of legal immigrants. Your theory is garbage.


I can't believe I have to say this out loud. Again.

Assimilation is generational. Most of the second generation and all of third are citizens. By that generation Hispanic migrants, even those descended from illegal migrants, are more assimilated than were cohorts from Ireland, Eastern Europe, Asia, etc.

You want to judge levels of cultural assimilation in the first generation? Fine. I ask, again, what metric would you use? And try something non-circular.
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
 
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