Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

nein51 said:

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Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

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You may be right but I think many of these new constuction homes are built much more crappily and half ass. Part of the reason that I chose my home other than location was bc it was built in 1972 and stood through hurrican hugo in 89. A lot of these newer subdivision homes go up fast and seem pretty cheaply made.

muddybrazos said:

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nein51 said:

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Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

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You may be right but I think many of these new constuction homes are built much more crappily and half ass. Part of the reason that I chose my home other than location was bc it was built in 1972 and stood through hurrican hugo in 89. A lot of these newer subdivision homes go up fast and seem pretty cheaply made.

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Ok I said nothing about quality. I said "larger and nicer".

A starter home doesn't need to be 3,000sq ft, 4BR, 3BA with a 1,000sq ft designer kitchen with granite countertops.

Construction quality is not as good.

Median home size in 1985 was 1,650sq ft
Median home size in 2025 is 2,190sq ft

And we are having fewer and fewer children so, in theory, the median home size should be declining not increasing.

If I were to buy another house, I'd prefer smaller and nicer and well built.

J.R. said:

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If I were to buy another house, I'd prefer smaller and nicer and well built.

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Get a custom builder and an excellent inspector

nein51 said:

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Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

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True

But so have tvs and computers and lots of other things.

Yet with modern manufacturing those realities prices have drastically decreased.

Housing is not exactly the same but it's still a manufactured good

Redbrickbear said:

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nein51 said:

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Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

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True

But so have tvs and computers and lots of other things.

Yet with modern manufacturing those realities prices have drastically decreased.

Housing is not exactly the same but it's still a manufactured good

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Home building is cost of materials plus man hours. The larger and more complex the build the higher the man hours and the more you'll have in materials. There is no economy of scale. Houses aren't widgets.

The cost savings you're talking about would amount to…well, Mexican workers vs US union tradesmen, and quality has gone down not up because of it.

nein51 said:

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Redbrickbear said:

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nein51 said:

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Again, homes have gotten much larger and much nicer since then as well

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True

But so have tvs and computers and lots of other things.

Yet with modern manufacturing those realities prices have drastically decreased.

Housing is not exactly the same but it's still a manufactured good

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Home building is cost of materials plus man hours. The larger and more complex the build the higher the man hours and the more you'll have in materials. There is no economy of scale. Houses aren't widgets.

The cost savings you're talking about would amount to…well, Mexican workers vs US union tradesmen, and quality has gone down not up because of it.

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I mean they are widgets produced in a factories some times no?

Be interested to see if mass produced manufactured homes have gone down in price or up in price over the same time period of time.

J.R. said:

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If I were to buy another house, I'd prefer smaller and nicer and well built.

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I just downsized myself. Also downsized from an SUV to a Kia Soul.

I have no regrets

Had a surreal experience today while car shopping that blew my mind in regards to prices.

My wife had looked at some expeditions online and saw this dealer was having a hail sale. On top of the current Ford offers they had one marked down another $4,000. I

MSRP was $72 something and total off was $12,000. Since it was only $4k off we thought it might only have minor hail damage.

The thing (and whole lot) should be sold for scrap or auctioned for whatever they go for. The vehicle we went to look at had 50 dents (before we gave up counting) and every car was like that.

I could not believe anyone would still pay 60k (or even 40K) for it. It was not just a little "cosmetic" damage as the salesman tried to convince us. It looked like someone had fired shotguns at it filled with marbles. Just dents everywhere. Taillights cracked.

I would not pay $20,000 for that even with it being a new vehicle and they were still asking $60. And they said they could go no lower than that.

Just crazy.

That's totally normal in CenTex and PDR can remove most of those dents.

FTR, I wouldn't buy one either

nein51 said:

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That's totally normal in CenTex and PDR can remove most of those dents.

FTR, I wouldn't buy one either

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I'm too cheap to pay that much for one!

nein51 said:

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That's totally normal in CenTex and PDR can remove most of those dents.

FTR, I wouldn't buy one either

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Which would be fine if they dropped the price a bunch more than just a couple thousand. There were so many dents in these vehicles it was clear some would need multiple thousands of work. I could see it easily being $10K as bad as some of them looked.

And maybe they will drop the price more once they realize no one is buying. We noticed multiple others looking at the cars and promptly leaving. More likely they will total them out as I've been told dealers often do after bad hail damage.

The unaffordability of homes is the greatest economic injustice today, because it makes it difficult to start families, which are the foundation of the entire social order. Here the alienating individualism of modernity is held in place by suffocating structural economic disorder https://t.co/P8zBaIOv1g

— Edward Feser (@FeserEdward) July 12, 2025

NEW HAMPSHIRE JUST SIGNED A HUGE LIST HOUSING REFORMS INTO LAW!!!

- Single-stair buildings up to 4 stories
- Parking minimums capped at 1/unit
- Towns can no longer restrict ppl/bed to less than 2
- Zoning appeals limited to 30 days
- ADU expansion
- Residential in commercial pic.twitter.com/qgVt30KilC

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 16, 2025

Deporting illegal aliens will relieve upward pressure on home prices.

This 100% should not be allowed https://t.co/NBJiKPBETn

— Financial Physics (@FinancialPhys) July 18, 2025

Housing stock has gone down since 2008 (albeit a little).

And that housing stock is a very mixed bag.

A fair amount of it is in places people no longer want to live or don't have job base to have a large population even if people want to live there. Example: you can easily find a house in Commerce under $200,000. If you're willing to move to the "country" from there, I mean $200,000 might as well be $1million. And this is in a state that is growing.

In attractive areas, new builds are too expensive to be a first home for the most part. And existing homes in desirable areas are being torn down to build ... new builds that are too expensive to be a first home. My first house was a 1400 sf that was 50 years old. Got torn down 20 years ago when I moved out,

To be really fair to young people, if we were to go back in time and I had the same income etc, but the housing stock looks like it does now, I am not sure I could have bought a house in the 1990s either.

Redbrickbear said:

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This really doesn't tell us much. We now live longer. We now are more mobile. People today are willing to trade in on all items much more frequently.

Now, if they changed it to 1st time home buyers, that would be troubling. As it stands, it is up several years. About 3 years later than in 1993 after Desert Storm. I use that as an indicator start point because we had the force reduction and a bunch of service men settled down and there was a jump. Late 1960's had a jump, I would say with Viet Nam vets hitting the market with VA mortgages. If go back further, you will see jumps after Korea and WW2. I would be curious how many actually saved up the 20% for their first home?

boognish_bear said:

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This 100% should not be allowed https://t.co/NBJiKPBETn

— Financial Physics (@FinancialPhys) July 18, 2025

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trade deficit coming home to roost.

All that money we send abroad has to be invested here somewhere (to support value of USD). That it is moving into residential real estate is a sign that options are dwindling.

Just another example of why we MUST address the trade deficit. It is distorting our economy in ways that harm the general welfare of ordinary people.

Dallas' suburbs are gaining more renters than anywhere else in the country https://t.co/rS3pmzcfTa

— WFAA (@wfaa) July 20, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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Dallas' suburbs are gaining more renters than anywhere else in the country https://t.co/rS3pmzcfTa

— WFAA (@wfaa) July 20, 2025

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I remember going to Frisco for my chiropractor in the 90s. It was still a small town. Going up the tollway were there vast open fields. Go up the tollway today, it's wall to wall buildings

Peter Thiel: "If you add more people to the mix and you're not allowed to build more houses because of zoning laws, then prices go up a lot, and it's this incredible wealth transfer from the young and the lower middle class to the upper middle class and the landlords." pic.twitter.com/7R2Hwpx4zb

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 20, 2025

Redbrickbear said:

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Peter Thiel: "If you add more people to the mix and you're not allowed to build more houses because of zoning laws, then prices go up a lot, and it's this incredible wealth transfer from the young and the lower middle class to the upper middle class and the landlords." pic.twitter.com/7R2Hwpx4zb

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 20, 2025

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macroeconomics 101: when demand rises faster than supply, prices go up.

So walk 20m illegals across the border without a corresponding increase in 20m new bedrooms and...... Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

cowboycwr said:

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nein51 said:

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boognish_bear said:

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$1,000 car payment is wild to me

[NEWS] More car buyers are paying over $1K/month than ever before:

Beyond that, average payments climbed to $756, while average down payments slipped.

The result: more buyers are maxing out loan terms.

As Edmunds’ Ivan Drury put it…

“It's clear that buyers are pulling the…

— Car Dealership Guy (@GuyDealership) July 4, 2025

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Payment is $100 per $5000 financed. That will get you awfully close to the estimate. People don't put money down and they finance forever.

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Your last sentence though is part of the larger problem due to people not being able to save the last several years. They don't have money to put down because they are living paycheck to paycheck.

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i have money to put down but i never do.. financing is cheap and my money works for me. I sell my cars instead of trading in every time. I bought a new suv, they wanted the old one but offered a really low trade in price. I kept it and sold it 3 days later for $4000 more than they offered. Cash.

The money i would have put down on a car, i used as down payment on a rental property

We purchased new ones back in 18 and nothing since.. they both came with lifetime drivetrain warranties. We gonna see how far they will go, lol

Redbrickbear said:

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Peter Thiel: "If you add more people to the mix and you're not allowed to build more houses because of zoning laws, then prices go up a lot, and it's this incredible wealth transfer from the young and the lower middle class to the upper middle class and the landlords." pic.twitter.com/7R2Hwpx4zb

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 20, 2025

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Maybe we need to quit adding people and start subtracting them by the millions.

Redbrickbear said:

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Peter Thiel: "If you add more people to the mix and you're not allowed to build more houses because of zoning laws, then prices go up a lot, and it's this incredible wealth transfer from the young and the lower middle class to the upper middle class and the landlords." pic.twitter.com/7R2Hwpx4zb

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 20, 2025

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This is not new... You guys act like you are the first ones to deal with it. Go to Long Island, do you think people WANTED to live on Exit 61 of the LIE and drive 15 miles to take a train to transfer at Grand Central to then catch the subway to finally a bus? No, they did it to afford a house in a decent area and that was the 60's.

It used to take years to finally buy a house in the area you wanted. Hell, graduating Baylor you had to go to West Texas for a few years before being able to move East of 35. You can afford a house out in Amarillo.

I read an article last year about how in American architecture, homes became increasingly larger to accommodate for the end of public life. The bar, the gym, the theater…every shared space was crammed into the home to ensure one’s entire life became a private silo. https://t.co/LDn3U9Khks

— Jack Califano (@jackcalifano) July 21, 2025

NASHVILLE JUST PASSED 6-STORY SINGLE-STAIR REFORM!

Nashville officially becomes the third-largest city to legalize single-stair apartment buildings up to six stories, outdoing Austin who recently passed a 5-story code update passed earlier this year.

LET'S FREAKIN GO NASHVILLE pic.twitter.com/HpXukWLNjD

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) July 23, 2025

Why does seemingly every country in the English-speaking world have an insane housing market? Is it something inherent to English common law that makes us not build enough housing or something? https://t.co/nhy7LmRTvl

— Zack Stentz (@MuseZack) July 23, 2025

The journalism we need. https://t.co/wIxDV6Rry1 pic.twitter.com/wLttzKYpdU

— Aaron Lubeck (@aaron_lubeck) July 28, 2025

Mass illegal and legal immigration is why people can't afford homes. Mass deportations will take care of the problem and believe me it must and will happen.

Looking forward to the real estate crash when millions of homes come up for sale once we remove people who do not belong here

RealEstateBear said:

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Mass illegal and legal immigration is why people can't afford homes. Mass deportations will take care of the problem and believe me it must and will happen.

Looking forward to the real estate crash when millions of homes come up for sale once we remove people who do not belong here

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I have heard this said several times but it doesn't make sense to me. Illegals tend to buy homes in the areas people don't want to live in. They are usually much older homes or smaller new homes. They do not tend to buy the 3 or 4 bedroom, 2000sq ft houses. So it seems the homes they are buying should be the expensive ones and not much of an impact on the slightly larger ones.