boognish_bear said:

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The trade-off is their salary probably won't be as much. I guess it's a matter of figuring out which ratio is the best.

"Younger generations are looking to the Midwest for homeownership because of the region’s significantly lower housing costs compared to major coastal cities," per FORTUNE

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) August 15, 2025

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True but the trade off in cost of living often equals out and why you can't just look at flat salary or per hour rates when looking for jobs. $50,000 a year is not the same across the country.

You also have to factor in benefits. Currently I work a job where the flat salary was lower than other places I could have gone. But they have good health insurance, dental, vision, life, etc. to where I pay less than if I had gone to another company with higher rates.

cowboycwr said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The trade-off is their salary probably won't be as much. I guess it's a matter of figuring out which ratio is the best.

"Younger generations are looking to the Midwest for homeownership because of the region’s significantly lower housing costs compared to major coastal cities," per FORTUNE

— unusual_whales (@unusual_whales) August 15, 2025

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True but the trade off in cost of living often equals out and why you can't just look at flat salary or per hour rates when looking for jobs. $50,000 a year is not the same across the country.

You also have to factor in benefits. Currently I work a job where the flat salary was lower than other places I could have gone. But they have good health insurance, dental, vision, life, etc. to where I pay less than if I had gone to another company with higher rates.

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The last boss I had brought his brother to dinner one night. He made around $200k but lived in San Fran. Dude was broke.

My wife's best friend lives in NYC. They have a 3br apt in Brooklyn they literally can't afford without someone sharing the space with them. Her husband is a Yale educated attorney and certified Nurse practitioner. They could easily move back to Cleveland and he would have a job at the Clinic in a heartbeat. He literally cannot understand that he would make 20% less but they could afford damned near any home they could really want with money to spare rather than having someone live with them.

1. Deport every illegal alien
2. Put every criminal in jail
3. 10x energy production (nuclear/coal/solar)
4. No taxing single family home developers
5. No property taxes <40, but 2x’d 75+

Land will be totally repriced and walkable neighborhoods will be developed everywhere. https://t.co/ewMrKAd5bn

— ib (@Indian_Bronson) August 16, 2025

Realitybites said:

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cowboycwr said:

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I started following one because he always seemed to have good tips. Then as he continued he stated showing his inspections and adding the tag line "that ain't right." He often shows new construction inspections and some of the things he shows are not just lazy, poor work, going to cost someone a ton of money in repairs later down the road but often seem to border on illegal (or should be illegal) as they are unsafe.

Things like support beams being held together by a single screw, no joint supports, electrical wiring stapled or nailed inside studs, and many many others.

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Do you have a link? Sounds like an interesting source to follow.

Also, did he ever mention a particular "inflection point" like the 2008 crash or 1996 when these problems got worse? In the yachting industry it is pretty widely known that new production boats are dumpster fires and my personal sense is that 08 was a pretty noticeable point in time when things got worse quickly.

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It really depends on where you are. Along the Gulf Coast and in Florida codes and inspections have gotten much tougher. So much so that people are complaining. it is really a catch 22 for the Code Enforcement people. They flag it they are taking people's homes. They let it go, storm hits, they are held responsible for allowing it. The same person crying about the cost, will sue claiming Code Enforcement was supposed to catch this. It is tough.

FL has some of the toughest codes in the Nation since the 90's. If you ever work a storm aftermath, you can see the difference. But, it cost. We have a huge issue on the barrier islands after last year. You cannot build back at grade, it has to be elevated. That cost... So, people living there for 40 years are being priced out. But those houses will now survive a Cat 4... What do you do? If you don't have good code enforcement, you get what you describe.

That's all true…but I walked through no fewer than 50 homes before we bought ours. I can count on 2 fingers the houses that had joist hangers installed correctly. It costs $0 to get that right.

I would argue the vast majority of minor code violations are a result not of trying to save money on materials but really poor labor skills from subcontractors. Theres a lot of unskilled "skilled labor".

Then I would argue most, let's call them, medium violations are the result of not knowing the code to start with followed by poor inspection processes.

nein51 said:

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That's all true…but I walked through no fewer than 50 homes before we bought ours. I can count on 2 fingers the houses that had joist hangers installed correctly. It costs $0 to get that right.

I would argue the vast majority of minor code violations are a result not of trying to save money on materials but really poor labor skills from subcontractors. Theres a lot of unskilled "skilled labor".

Then I would argue most, let's call them, medium violations are the result of not knowing the code to start with followed by poor inspection processes.

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Don't disagree. I worked for a coastal city in Florida, code enforcement is a difficult Department.

Biggest issue is that they are using Code Enforcement for QC and that is just not their role. 4 Inspectors for a City of 50k can't catch every QC issue and that is not their job.

Builders are trying to get out as cheap as possible. If they can avoid a commitment or not get caught they will.

FLBear5630 said:

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nein51 said:

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That's all true…but I walked through no fewer than 50 homes before we bought ours. I can count on 2 fingers the houses that had joist hangers installed correctly. It costs $0 to get that right.

I would argue the vast majority of minor code violations are a result not of trying to save money on materials but really poor labor skills from subcontractors. Theres a lot of unskilled "skilled labor".

Then I would argue most, let's call them, medium violations are the result of not knowing the code to start with followed by poor inspection processes.

---

Don't disagree. I worked for a coastal city in Florida, code enforcement is a difficult Department.

Biggest issue is that they are using Code Enforcement for QC and that is just not their role. 4 Inspectors for a City of 50k can't catch every QC issue and that is not their job.

Builders are trying to get out as cheap as possible. If they can avoid a commitment or not get caught they will.

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Agreed though I would add most actual builders probably have just about 0 knowledge of the work their subcontractors are doing

Most homes in this country are built by various versions of Walmart/Amazon (sub your favorite big home builder here). The accountability of their subcontractors is farmed to an employee who may not even know the code and really doesn't much care

nein51 said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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nein51 said:

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That's all true…but I walked through no fewer than 50 homes before we bought ours. I can count on 2 fingers the houses that had joist hangers installed correctly. It costs $0 to get that right.

I would argue the vast majority of minor code violations are a result not of trying to save money on materials but really poor labor skills from subcontractors. Theres a lot of unskilled "skilled labor".

Then I would argue most, let's call them, medium violations are the result of not knowing the code to start with followed by poor inspection processes.

---

Don't disagree. I worked for a coastal city in Florida, code enforcement is a difficult Department.

Biggest issue is that they are using Code Enforcement for QC and that is just not their role. 4 Inspectors for a City of 50k can't catch every QC issue and that is not their job.

Builders are trying to get out as cheap as possible. If they can avoid a commitment or not get caught they will.

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Agreed though I would add most actual builders probably have just about 0 knowledge of the work their subcontractors are doing

Most homes in this country are built by various versions of Walmart/Amazon (sub your favorite big home builder here). The accountability of their subcontractors is farmed to an employee who may not even know the code and really doesn't much care

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I find that many of the quality improvements are coming with the 2nd roof, the pavers added, the re-marsiting of pools, re-tiling of showers and AC duct upgrades when systems are replaced. These contractors/vendors have more accountability for their work and are more apt to look for value added features to separate themselves.

The original builder, I don't think most people realize who they are.

Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

4th and Inches said:

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Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

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One of the few times the city should actually be of help; electrical, hvac and plumbing before the walls are closed up.

I wouldn't build today unless you had the ability to have your own inspections done on those items. It's where most corners are cut because you can't see them. Also the most expensive and extensive to fix.

nein51 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

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One of the few times the city should actually be of help; electrical, hvac and plumbing before the walls are closed up.

I wouldn't build today unless you had the ability to have your own inspections done on those items. It's where most corners are cut because you can't see them. Also the most expensive and extensive to fix.

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We do our own inspections after HVAC, Electrical, and Plumbing have all passed City inspection, as well as Framing, exterior sheeting, and windshear inspections.

We require our subs to go beyond minimum code. All headers have a 2x4 flat under the required size(bigger spans require top and bottom), all interior walls are built as if they are load bearing with headers and double top plates. All stud penetrations require fire block spray foam as well as nail plates or stud shoes.

Etc..

nein51 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

---

One of the few times the city should actually be of help; electrical, hvac and plumbing before the walls are closed up.

I wouldn't build today unless you had the ability to have your own inspections done on those items. It's where most corners are cut because you can't see them. Also the most expensive and extensive to fix.

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A lot of times depends on where you are and if you are willing to talk to the inspectors. I have had good luck with both City inspectors and VA inspectors in the past. I also, have heard horror stories, especially during the pandemic. People were happy just to have a contractor finish. I think we are seeing some of that mop up...

4th and Inches said:

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nein51 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

---

One of the few times the city should actually be of help; electrical, hvac and plumbing before the walls are closed up.

I wouldn't build today unless you had the ability to have your own inspections done on those items. It's where most corners are cut because you can't see them. Also the most expensive and extensive to fix.

---

We do our own inspections after HVAC, Electrical, and Plumbing have all passed City inspection, as well as Framing, exterior sheeting, and windshear inspections.

We require our subs to go beyond minimum code. All headers have a 2x4 flat under the required size(bigger spans require top and bottom), all interior walls are built as if they are load bearing with headers and double top plates. All stud penetrations require fire block spray foam as well as nail plates or stud shoes.

Etc..

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In auto I used to tell my guys "if you don't have the time to do it right you sure don't have the time to do it twice"

Do the job right and everyone wins. Going past the minimum has a cost but so does owning a pile of crap. Good on you for doing it right.

Homebuilders court investors as unsold completed new-build inventory hits 15-year high

This week, @Lennar—a homebuilder ranked No. 129 on the Fortune 500—launched Lennar Investor Marketplace. It's a portal for mom-and-pop landlords to find deals from Lennar pic.twitter.com/ZOoMFwOgwu

— Lance Lambert (@NewsLambert) August 16, 2025

Keep in mind, this unsold completed inventory isn’t distributed evenly across the U.S.

Much of it is in the Sun Belt pockets in Florida, Tennessee, Texas Arizona, and Colorado.https://t.co/4AkxIXBgz8

— Lance Lambert (@NewsLambert) August 16, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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Keep in mind, this unsold completed inventory isn’t distributed evenly across the U.S.

Much of it is in the Sun Belt pockets in Florida, Tennessee, Texas Arizona, and Colorado.https://t.co/4AkxIXBgz8

— Lance Lambert (@NewsLambert) August 16, 2025

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Also keep in mind that the build quality on these properties is going to be substandard.

4th and Inches said:

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nein51 said:

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4th and Inches said:

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Quality of the build is directly proportional to the quality of the subs and the site supervisor who is supposed to review everything. Independent inspections are a must before insulation and drywall is installed and again before final

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One of the few times the city should actually be of help; electrical, hvac and plumbing before the walls are closed up.

I wouldn't build today unless you had the ability to have your own inspections done on those items. It's where most corners are cut because you can't see them. Also the most expensive and extensive to fix.

---

We do our own inspections after HVAC, Electrical, and Plumbing have all passed City inspection, as well as Framing, exterior sheeting, and windshear inspections.

We require our subs to go beyond minimum code. All headers have a 2x4 flat under the required size(bigger spans require top and bottom), all interior walls are built as if they are load bearing with headers and double top plates. All stud penetrations require fire block spray foam as well as nail plates or stud shoes.

Etc..

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Problem is many quality builders will not do the starter/entry into the market homes beyond the minimum required by the local Comp Plan and Code. Not going to solve the problem at hand of affordable housing.

In Florida it has gotten even worse, they will only work on the "luxury" homes because they can work on less and make the same or more money.

For midlevel to affordable you get the big corporations that can bury it in larger communities. Look at some of them. Scrape off all the topsoil and sell it. Limit the models, bury the construction waste below a layer of clay and throw down some sod. There are so many entitlements in FL, there is no shortage. But you will pay...

BREAKING 🚨: Lumber

Timberrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 📉📉 pic.twitter.com/XX7zYPVAw0

— Barchart (@Barchart) August 18, 2025

For the first time ever, it is considerably cheaper to buy a new house than to buy an existing house.

Likely signals an inflection point in the housing market. pic.twitter.com/eH9jMTROlQ

— Nick Gerli (@nickgerli1) August 18, 2025

1) Today's premium to buy of $713/month is one of the highest on record, and a key reason why homebuyer demand is near record lows.

First-time buyers are doing the simple math, and deciding to stay renting, since it saves them money in the short-term.

— Nick Gerli (@nickgerli1) August 19, 2025

Then they should have no issue saving the gap and building up a down payment for the next dip in the market.

Walked by a project in Austin this morning where a luxury home builder is building 3 homes on a lot where the exact same developer would have only built a single, gigantic, $4M home only 2 years ago.

YIMBY works, Y’all pic.twitter.com/62iG5LYecf

— YIMBYLAND (@YIMBYLAND) August 19, 2025

Austin, TX is now the 7th most affordable metro area in terms of Rent / Income Ratio.

Amazing how far it has come.

(more affordable than St. Louis, Akron, and Milwaukee for locals). pic.twitter.com/ojUzyddZAJ

— Nick Gerli (@nickgerli1) August 15, 2025

There's a literal 0% chance Austin is cheaper than Akron even on an income adjusted basis. Whatever data they are using is either flawed or desperately skewed. My rent in Austin in 2001 was more than what it could cost to live in Akron today.

The only way that stat is true is if they stretch the definition of Akron to be Greene and Bath Township (both of which are very high end) because Akron proper is a literal ****hole. I doubt I could give anyone on this board a home in Akron. The median home price is $175k and if you go 6-8 blocks away from campus it's not safe after dark.

The other alternative is that they are only looking at apartment rent which is driven by the University subsidies.

In any event this is 100% no doubt about it the data being manipulated to prove some point.

boognish_bear said:

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1) Today's premium to buy of $713/month is one of the highest on record, and a key reason why homebuyer demand is near record lows.

First-time buyers are doing the simple math, and deciding to stay renting, since it saves them money in the short-term.

— Nick Gerli (@nickgerli1) August 19, 2025

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This comes with several trade offs though. New homes typically are built on top of each other. Or at least in many areas I notice here in Texas. (Austin, DFW, Waco, Houston) and you get a literal strip of grass for a backyard and maybe 10 feet between houses. You get short front yards, short driveways, tiny streets. All do more homes can be built in the area purchased by the homebuilder.

They also don't seem to even attempt to save any trees when they come in to build so you only get whatever young trees they plant.

For a first time buyer the above should not be an issue for starter homes.

For families that would like to buy a bigger house it creates problems as they want those things but it seems like they have to buy a lot (or two) and do a custom build.

BREAKING: A homebuyer must now earn $114,627/year to afford the median-priced US home, per Redfin.

This means the average US household income would require a ~42% raise to afford the median home.

Homeownership is officially a luxury. https://t.co/TqsItVze8j pic.twitter.com/967MLGpKBJ

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) August 19, 2025

High rates are crushing homebuilding and driving up housing costs.

A rate cut would spark new construction, ease pressure on families, and make housing more affordable for years to come. pic.twitter.com/LnnhyLWVeH

— Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent (@SecScottBessent) August 19, 2025

BREAKING: President Trump asks for somebody to “inform Jerome ‘Too Late’ Powell that he is hurting the housing industry.” pic.twitter.com/jJY4lMg22J

— The Kobeissi Letter (@KobeissiLetter) August 19, 2025

The median age of first time homebuyers is 38. It was 33 in 2021.

Housing market is broken. pic.twitter.com/RKmcU5NKS6

— Illiquid Insights (@IlliquidInsight) August 20, 2025

75% of Arlington’s residents are renters, but only 25% of the county’s land is zoned for multifamily housing. In October, the median home price in Arlington was $650,000, and nearly double that — $1.17 million — for a single-family house. pic.twitter.com/zcdKbuZdRH

— Wyatt Gordon (@yitgordon) December 12, 2022

JD Vance: "As we've kicked illegal aliens out of our country, you actually see housing costs start to level off." pic.twitter.com/4KkCdMZvhX

— Aaron Rupar (@atrupar) August 20, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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The median age of first time homebuyers is 38. It was 33 in 2021.

Housing market is broken. pic.twitter.com/RKmcU5NKS6

— Illiquid Insights (@IlliquidInsight) August 20, 2025

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How much of that boost in 1950 and 60 50% was WW2 and Korea Vets that wanted nothing more than to settle down and raise families after their experiences? They taught that to their kids, we are generations from that now. Those Post WW2 programs changed America.

Is the current generations happy renting? Wheat we have today is set up by the policies of the last 20 years. What do they value? Because for the past 50 years married, kids and a home in the suburbs has not been their dream, like it was for ours.

Been there… 😆 pic.twitter.com/sCoVstvWVu

— Financial Physics (@FinancialPhys) August 22, 2025

ABSURD: Australia to consider taxing unused bedrooms in people’s homes to “free up supply”

This is what happens when government controls too much, they’ll come for everything. pic.twitter.com/QIWJTI6I7y

— David J Harris Jr (@DavidJHarrisJr) August 23, 2025

boognish_bear said:

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ABSURD: Australia to consider taxing unused bedrooms in people’s homes to “free up supply”

This is what happens when government controls too much, they’ll come for everything. pic.twitter.com/QIWJTI6I7y

— David J Harris Jr (@DavidJHarrisJr) August 23, 2025

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But I'm sure the rich/politicians would have an exception for their second home, vacation houses, etc.

A new 2025 study ranked America's fastest-growing affordable suburbs, and the Lone Star State accounted for half of the rankings. https://t.co/FgHSUT9FDR

— WFAA (@wfaa) August 24, 2025