Tucker's attempt to normalize Nick Fuentes

96,830 Views | 1799 Replies | Last: 32 min ago by The_barBEARian
boognish_bear
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whiterock
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The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.
whiterock
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Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.



It is one thing to state this, it's quite another to actually come up with a list of concrete benefits this "special relationship" has for American citizens. I mean, the Israeli government sold our nuclear secrets to the USSR during the cold war. That's about as big a national security betrayal as you can have.

Israel is MIGA. I don't blame them for that. Every country should be looking out for its interests first, including ours.

We do look out for our interests first.
As does Israel.
And the two are broadly and significantly congruent.
Ergo the alliance.

I swear, this is axiomatic: the greater a critic of Israel one is, the more ignorant they are about the way the world actually works.
muddybrazos
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whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.

All you have to do is look at Europe pre 9/11 and what has happened to them sinc. That tells you all you need to know about how bad of an idea blowing up the mid east and Libya was. Not to mention a generation of young men with ptsd and strange diseases. My brother in law was a marine in Falujah and he has liver cancer from who knows what but they guess it was from the burn pits. He has never been right since he got back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Its kind of a miracle that he has lived this long bc most of his buddies have killed themselves. Then you look at the monetary cost and there is no way you can convince me it was worth it. The only people that have benefited from any of this is our greatest ally but the rest of the world is much worse off.
Mothra
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The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Oldbear83 said:

Understanding foreign policy is in some part based on geography. You need to understand choke points and sea lanes, historic trade routes used to ship freight, and the history of wars fought for resources.

One vital reason both Britain and the US wanted a Jewish state of Israel, was to have a western-friendly state in the Middle East. Sometimes Jordan has served that role post-1991, and the Saudis will make deals with anyone if the money is right.

Israel will never be the Middle East version of Kansas. But saying Israel is anti-American demonstrates not just bigotry but historical ignorance.


Must be an tragic coincidence that the west was never more strong and healthy than when it had no "western-friendly" states in the middle east.

When was that - when you believe the US was stronger? Wasn't WWI or II. German technology was superior to ours (some might say, far superior). We overwhelmed them with numbers (and lots of casualties). Wasn't Korea, when we got our assess kicked by the Chinese, and proceed to what was essentially a stalemate. Wasn't Vietnam, obviously.

I am not sure it's even arguable that we've ever been as powerful or dominant a military force as we are right now.


I said "the west" not the United States of America.

The west is colloquially known as Europe and the Anglosphere.

At one time the west had colonized the entire planet.

We werent slaves to a bunch of sand people - whether they be arabs or jews.


Ok, what period then?
The_barBEARian
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whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?
The_barBEARian
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Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Oldbear83 said:

Understanding foreign policy is in some part based on geography. You need to understand choke points and sea lanes, historic trade routes used to ship freight, and the history of wars fought for resources.

One vital reason both Britain and the US wanted a Jewish state of Israel, was to have a western-friendly state in the Middle East. Sometimes Jordan has served that role post-1991, and the Saudis will make deals with anyone if the money is right.

Israel will never be the Middle East version of Kansas. But saying Israel is anti-American demonstrates not just bigotry but historical ignorance.


Must be an tragic coincidence that the west was never more strong and healthy than when it had no "western-friendly" states in the middle east.

When was that - when you believe the US was stronger? Wasn't WWI or II. German technology was superior to ours (some might say, far superior). We overwhelmed them with numbers (and lots of casualties). Wasn't Korea, when we got our assess kicked by the Chinese, and proceed to what was essentially a stalemate. Wasn't Vietnam, obviously.

I am not sure it's even arguable that we've ever been as powerful or dominant a military force as we are right now.


I said "the west" not the United States of America.

The west is colloquially known as Europe and the Anglosphere.

At one time the west had colonized the entire planet.

We werent slaves to a bunch of sand people - whether they be arabs or jews.


Ok, what period then?


What is your point?

Mine is Europe hasn't been this weak since the Dark Ages... and I would argue American hegemony peaked in the 90ties after the fall of the Soviet Union and we are weaker as a nation than we were 30 years ago.

What is the point in having a strong military if your country is bankrupt and has no borders?... unless the purpose of the American military is to serve a foreign government and the American people are just cattle to be exploited and discarded...
Mothra
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The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Oldbear83 said:

Understanding foreign policy is in some part based on geography. You need to understand choke points and sea lanes, historic trade routes used to ship freight, and the history of wars fought for resources.

One vital reason both Britain and the US wanted a Jewish state of Israel, was to have a western-friendly state in the Middle East. Sometimes Jordan has served that role post-1991, and the Saudis will make deals with anyone if the money is right.

Israel will never be the Middle East version of Kansas. But saying Israel is anti-American demonstrates not just bigotry but historical ignorance.


Must be an tragic coincidence that the west was never more strong and healthy than when it had no "western-friendly" states in the middle east.

When was that - when you believe the US was stronger? Wasn't WWI or II. German technology was superior to ours (some might say, far superior). We overwhelmed them with numbers (and lots of casualties). Wasn't Korea, when we got our assess kicked by the Chinese, and proceed to what was essentially a stalemate. Wasn't Vietnam, obviously.

I am not sure it's even arguable that we've ever been as powerful or dominant a military force as we are right now.


I said "the west" not the United States of America.

The west is colloquially known as Europe and the Anglosphere.

At one time the west had colonized the entire planet.

We werent slaves to a bunch of sand people - whether they be arabs or jews.


Ok, what period then?


What is your point?

Mine is Europe hasn't been this weak since the Dark Ages... and I would argue American hegemony peaked in the 90ties after the fall of the Soviet Union and we are weaker as a nation than we were 30 years ago.

What is the point in having a strong military if your country is bankrupt and has no borders?... unless the purpose of the American military is to serve a foreign government and the American people are just cattle to be exploited and discarded...

My point was to try and understand the basis for your position. You think that now is all that different than the nineties in terms of our military, spending, and borders? LOL.

You're showing your age. We had the same issues then we do now, by and large.
The_barBEARian
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Shifting to a different topic, can you explain to me why Jared Kushner is effectively acting as a second Secretary of State?

Was he vetted by congress?

Why is this clown being given complete authority over our foreign policy?

What are his qualifications? Other than he is a jew and a fervent zionist of course...

Mothra
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The_barBEARian said:

Shifting to a different topic, can you explain to me why Jared Kushner is effectively acting as a second Secretary of State?

Was he vetted by congress?

Why is this clown being given complete authority over our foreign policy?

What are his qualifications? Other than he is a jew and a fervent zionist of course...



I understand why you'd like to change the subject. Your position on this issue isn't exactly sound.

As for Kushner, I am not a racist, and don't hyperventilate about all things Jew, so I really don't know and don't care. I trust that Trump will make the right decision.
The_barBEARian
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Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Shifting to a different topic, can you explain to me why Jared Kushner is effectively acting as a second Secretary of State?

Was he vetted by congress?

Why is this clown being given complete authority over our foreign policy?

What are his qualifications? Other than he is a jew and a fervent zionist of course...



I understand why you'd like to change the subject. Your position on this issue isn't exactly sound.

As for Kushner, I am not a racist, and don't hyperventilate about all things Jew, so I really don't know and don't care. I trust that Trump will make the right decision.


Blissfully ignorant.
BigGameBaylorBear
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Looking at it from a view of power share, US military strength peaked in the nineties after the collapse of the USSR. No one compared to us.

But over the past 3 decades our enemies have gotten stronger and we have weakened a bit. Still #1 but imagine what could have been if not for our wars in the Middle East
Sic 'em Bears and Go Birds
Mothra
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The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Shifting to a different topic, can you explain to me why Jared Kushner is effectively acting as a second Secretary of State?

Was he vetted by congress?

Why is this clown being given complete authority over our foreign policy?

What are his qualifications? Other than he is a jew and a fervent zionist of course...



I understand why you'd like to change the subject. Your position on this issue isn't exactly sound.

As for Kushner, I am not a racist, and don't hyperventilate about all things Jew, so I really don't know and don't care. I trust that Trump will make the right decision.


Blissfully ignorant.

No, I'm just not a racist such as yourself, and don't assume nefarious motives as you do every time a Jew is involved.
The_barBEARian
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Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Mothra said:

The_barBEARian said:

Shifting to a different topic, can you explain to me why Jared Kushner is effectively acting as a second Secretary of State?

Was he vetted by congress?

Why is this clown being given complete authority over our foreign policy?

What are his qualifications? Other than he is a jew and a fervent zionist of course...



I understand why you'd like to change the subject. Your position on this issue isn't exactly sound.

As for Kushner, I am not a racist, and don't hyperventilate about all things Jew, so I really don't know and don't care. I trust that Trump will make the right decision.


Blissfully ignorant.

No, I'm just not a racist such as yourself, and don't assume nefarious motives as you do every time a Jew is involved.


Sometimes I have to remind myself you are a 50 year old man and not a precocious toddler with your childlike worldview... there is no precedent for a President's unelected, un-vetted son-in-law negotiating American foreign policy... or a casino/real estate operator like Witkoff... it is so brazen and absurd the fact that the media isnt questioning it is another sign this country is a corrupt ****hole...
whiterock
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muddybrazos said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.

All you have to do is look at Europe pre 9/11 and what has happened to them sinc. That tells you all you need to know about how bad of an idea blowing up the mid east and Libya was. Not to mention a generation of young men with ptsd and strange diseases. My brother in law was a marine in Falujah and he has liver cancer from who knows what but they guess it was from the burn pits. He has never been right since he got back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Its kind of a miracle that he has lived this long bc most of his buddies have killed themselves. Then you look at the monetary cost and there is no way you can convince me it was worth it. The only people that have benefited from any of this is our greatest ally but the rest of the world is much worse off.

I thought you were smarter than barBEARean......

Are you not aware that Israel advised us against invading Iraq?

whiterock
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The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?
BigGameBaylorBear
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whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse
Sic 'em Bears and Go Birds
whiterock
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BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse

have you been asleep in a cave somewhere since 1980?
BigGameBaylorBear
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whiterock said:

BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse

have you been asleep in a cave somewhere since 1980?


Are you Jewish?
Sic 'em Bears and Go Birds
Oldbear83
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whiterock said:

BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse

have you been asleep in a cave somewhere since 1980?

Self-imposed burka, maybe?
muddybrazos
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whiterock said:

muddybrazos said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.

All you have to do is look at Europe pre 9/11 and what has happened to them sinc. That tells you all you need to know about how bad of an idea blowing up the mid east and Libya was. Not to mention a generation of young men with ptsd and strange diseases. My brother in law was a marine in Falujah and he has liver cancer from who knows what but they guess it was from the burn pits. He has never been right since he got back from Iraq and Afghanistan. Its kind of a miracle that he has lived this long bc most of his buddies have killed themselves. Then you look at the monetary cost and there is no way you can convince me it was worth it. The only people that have benefited from any of this is our greatest ally but the rest of the world is much worse off.

I thought you were smarter than barBEARean......

Are you not aware that Israel advised us against invading Iraq?



Cmon, man. Ive read the clean break report and I know the plan for the new realm. Iran is last on the list and thats why we're about to knock them off.
BigGameBaylorBear
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Oldbear83 said:

whiterock said:

BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse

have you been asleep in a cave somewhere since 1980?

Self-imposed burka, maybe?


Self-imposed yamaka?
Sic 'em Bears and Go Birds
muddybrazos
How long do you want to ignore this user?
I'm going to make a prediction. Once we knock off Iran on behalf of bibi and the zios then Turkey will be the next problem that we will need handle for them. I wonder who will be after that.
boognish_bear
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Oldbear83
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Your schtick is stuck on passe.
whiterock
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BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

BigGameBaylorBear said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



Why the hell would anyone be interested in bombing Iran for the sole reason of regime change? Our involvement in this conflict has everything to do with Israel. It's the reason Bibi keeps coming back to the Whitehouse

have you been asleep in a cave somewhere since 1980?


Are you Jewish?

no, but why would that matter? The issues are the issues. The interests are the interests. Religion really doesn't have much to do with it, except for the Middle East, where rabid anti-semitism occludes all reason. Even then, we find a way to work with both Arabs and Jews on common interests. Countries do typically work on common interests, regardless how other stuff lines up. That's how you find Israel partnering with the USA but allying with Azerbaijan against Armenia.....why is that? Because the Azeris hate the Iranians. The Iranians know this and ally with the Armenians. Ergo, Israel has more in common with a country full of muslims than country full of Christians. Religion is LESS important than national interest.

You Israel haters here sound exactly like all those 80-range IQ arabs I worked around overseas. One crude Jewish trope after another. That "running of the Jew" scene in Borat was the funniest part of the entire movie because it fairly accurately represents the caricaturish nature of Arab antisemitism (and yours).

Geopoltics is not hard to understand, but one does have to try.
Oldbear83
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I'd guess most here have never been to the Middle East, which includes me but only to a degree. My father worked on several projects in the Middle East as a project engineer, and introduced me to a number of fine colleagues from there.

Just like Americans can be stereotyped, so too this happens with a lot of nationalities. One thing I learned long ago was a lot of Arabs were quietly happy about Israel, for a number of reasons the folks here who never traveled would also never understand.
whiterock
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muddybrazos said:

I'm going to make a prediction. Once we knock off Iran on behalf of bibi and the zios then Turkey will be the next problem that we will need handle for them. I wonder who will be after that.

yeah, Turkey is indeed a potential problem, because it does see itself as the rightful predominant power in the Mediterranean and Arab peninsula. Erdogan is working steadily toward that aim. He overstepped a bit in Syria, installing a pro-Turkish proxy that is discomfitting to allies.* But there are an array of counter-balances. Saudi Arabia is a counter-balance. Egypt is a counter-balance. Nato is a counter-balance. For that matter, Russia is a counter-balance (regardless of US/Russia relations). Same for Iran. It's a counter-balance to Turkish policy whether it is friendly toward us or not. Nothing remarkable about any of that. It's geopolitics. And in in this particular area, the basic pieces have been at play for millennia.

Our interest is not to dominate anything, but rather to prevent any of those powers from doing so. Israel is an incredibly useful tool in that regard. They take most of the risk. Do most of the hard work. We get the benefit. It's a shame so many people let old hatreds and faulty premises blind them to good policy at work.

*but our troops are coming home, so perhaps the regime in Damascus isn't so unpalatable as it might have at first appeared.
muddybrazos
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whiterock said:

muddybrazos said:

I'm going to make a prediction. Once we knock off Iran on behalf of bibi and the zios then Turkey will be the next problem that we will need handle for them. I wonder who will be after that.

yeah, Turkey is indeed a potential problem, because it does see itself as the rightful predominant power in the Mediterranean and Arab peninsula. Erdogan is working steadily toward that aim. He overstepped a bit in Syria, installing a pro-Turkish proxy that is discomfitting to allies.* But there are an array of counter-balances. Saudi Arabia is a counter-balance. Egypt is a counter-balance. Nato is a counter-balance. For that matter, Russia is a counter-balance (regardless of US/Russia relations). Same for Iran. It's a counter-balance to Turkish policy whether it is friendly toward us or not. Nothing remarkable about any of that. It's geopolitics. And in in this particular area, the basic pieces have been at play for millennia.

Our interest is not to dominate anything, but rather to prevent any of those powers from doing so. Israel is an incredibly useful tool in that regard. They take most of the risk. Do most of the hard work. We get the benefit. It's a shame so many people let old hatreds and faulty premises blind them to good policy at work.

*but our troops are coming home, so perhaps the regime in Damascus isn't so unpalatable as it might have at first appeared.

I dont have any old hatreds and was a typical evangelical bapist type until I became an Anglican and now I kind of want to be catholic. I have started noticing how the zionists and the bolshevik type jews operate and they both hate Christ and have a 2000 year old blood fued against Rome aka Christendom. Bibi himself admitted as much. I have seen debates with several different jews and they even said they prefer muslims to Christians. I have several friends that are jewish so obvioulsy i dont really discuss these topics. Theyre good people and very smart but theyre also way more liberal but I always enjoy hearing their perspectives. They are the atheist types and I dont really want to get into any sort of theological discussions with them so as not to offend. I dont know any muslims and im not really looking to meet any of them bc I like dogs, bacon and bourbon...lol.

I do not trust bibi and Isreal one bit. They did lie about wmds, they did have prior knowledge of 911 (all of them luckily got the memo to not be at the tower that day) and they do use and abuse us.
The_barBEARian
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Oldbear83 said:

I'd guess most here have never been to the Middle East, which includes me but only to a degree. My father worked on several projects in the Middle East as a project engineer, and introduced me to a number of fine colleagues from there.

Just like Americans can be stereotyped, so too this happens with a lot of nationalities. One thing I learned long ago was a lot of Arabs were quietly happy about Israel, for a number of reasons the folks here who never traveled would also never understand.





Do you agree with your buddy whiterock that killing Christians is a good thing when jews are the ones doing it?
Oldbear83
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Don't you ever put your hatred, lying and slander aside?

I don't know who Joel Berry is, but I know bile and venom when I see it, devoid of supporting evidence.

The_barBEARian
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Oldbear83 said:

Don't you ever put your hatred, lying and slander aside?

I don't know who Joel Berry is, but I know bile and venom when I see it, devoid of supporting evidence.


Oldbear83
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I see barB, once again, has no evidence or substance, just a cartoon insult.

I take back that barB slept through History.

He quit school before the course even started.
The_barBEARian
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whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

The_barBEARian said:

whiterock said:

Realitybites said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



it's really, really easy to stay on message when the message conforms to reality, which in this case is that Israel's interests and ours are usually closely aligned, and that Israel as a policy proxy is a tremendous bang for the buck.

It's not a question of cooperating with other nations when interests align.

It's a question of politicians who are supposed to represent the interests of American citizens giving a foreign nation billions of dollars so they can collect a commission and acting against the interests of those citizens.

false dilemma. the interests of American citizens and Israeli citizens are closely aligned on a broad number of foreign policy matters, and Israel repeatedly puts its sons & daughters in harm's way in pursuit of those policy interests (which of course means American sons & daughters don't have to).

It's quite difficult to find a foreign policy investment which has generated as much positive impact as our aid to Israel. One must be quite the isolationist not to see the benefits of it.




Nobody under 40 believes this propaganda.

I cant think of a single way my life has improved bcs Boomers spent my entire life worshipping Israel and blowing up our national debt to historic, unrecoverable levels.

If Israel is the bang for our buck you say they are, now is the time for a ROI... this country needs the money!

everyone goes thru a young and stupid phase.
most grow out of it.

You are making a childish faulty assumption that nothing abroad matters to us. Nothing could be further from the truth.

To the extent that one wishes to not get directly involved solving a whole bunch of minor potential threats, so as to save powder for manifest larger threats, then one needs highly motivated and capable allies to do the work instead. And in that role, few allies of anyone at any time in history have been more cost-effective than Israel.


lol. As we are literally about to fight another costly and pointless war for Israel with Iran... Israel didn't send a single troop to Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, or Afganistan.... with allies like these, who needs enemies?

Such a profoundly dumb comment. Israel is a tiny country with an existential war to fight every single day surrounded by a vast array hostiles. Moreover, only an idiot would send Jewish troops to help occupy an islamic country. Would be highly inflammatory to Arab sensibilities, making pacification as well as broader coalition building harder.

We do not need any Israeli encouragement to bomb the hell out of Iran to the point of regime change. It is long, long overdue, for reasons that have absolutely nothing to do with Israel. I do appreciate their help, however. They're pretty damned capable and are usually willing to do the riskiest parts of the mission so we don't have to.

It's like you completely missed that time Iran held our diplomats hostages for over a year. or that time Iranian proxies bombed the Marine barracks in Beirut. or that Iranian terrorism has purposely killed thousands of Americans. But no. You love you some Iranians. Probably because they killed or ran off all their Jews. It's always about the Jew, for you.

Where does all this hate come from....did a Jew steal your wife or something?



How Boomers act when you reject the premise that America's relationship with Israel is anything other than completely parasitic:

The_barBEARian
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