Waco1947 said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I am not a "great" follower of Jesus - I am a disciple like you who believes God is love and is present because the Bible tells me so and who believes the Great Commandment to love God, neighbor and self because the Bible tells me so.
I don't believe God moves tectonic plates. Nature simply happens and God goes with us through it. God will not deny me entrancevinto Gid's Eternal Kingdom based on your a man made doctrine. God will have one one question "Do love me and did you feed my sheep?"
There is No proof that moves tectonic plates but Just s biased witness which true of all religions. Why should the Christian myth be believed and not the Toltecs?
There is not independent source as to God's all powerful abilities. Just the Bible and it's biased witness and to refer to it'd proof in the Bible is circular reasoning. Our faith is finally not dependent on an all powerful God but on a God who loves us. That's my premise. Tell me I am wrong.

---

You refuse to answer simple questions.

Therefore, you are not honest.

You just keep repeating statements already addressed, Waco, which makes you either willfully ignorant of what is already here for your consideration, or you are maliciously ignoring anything that does not agree with your political screed.

It is, by the way, not wise to mock Scripture.

---

IF the question is "Is God all powerful?" The answer is no. There is no evidentiary proof that there is a power more power that natural forces. The Bible say YES GOD but it only pints tonitself as evidence. That's not proof that hearsay.

---

Let's say I accept you premise above. Then why is there any evidentiary proof of Whitehead's grade's of reality? I do understand that Whitehead is suggesting a taxonomy of reality. It seems what you say is hearsay.

47, what do you mean you are not a great follower of Jesus?"

Once again 47, I ask you to stay out of the pulpit.

Polycarp said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Quote:

---

There is not independent source as to God's all powerful abilities. Just the Bible and it's biased witness and to refer to it'd proof in the Bible is circular reasoning. Our faith is finally not dependent on an all powerful God but on a God who loves us. That's my premise. Tell me I am wrong.

---

I've asked twice, in two different threads... Do you believe that your "God who love us" created the universe ex nihilo?

---

Clearly 47's answer is no. His understanding of god does not allow such an event to happen. 47 is not one can not know if God did or did not create ex nihilism. 47 clearly states that god, does not have the power to create.

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

---

It simply is.

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

TexasScientist said:

---

Occam's razor.

---

Pascal's Wager

Waco1947 said:

---

It simply is.

---

With all due respect, this is very weak philosophy.

I believe that you know the truth - that God is All-Powerful. I also believe that you have allowed a very tragic incident in your ministry to jade and morph your theology to help you reconcile that event with reality.

I believe that you are a man of deep love of God so you didn't completely abandon your belief in Him; however, you have spent years searching, crafting, and researching a new theology to square this sad event.

You've created a god that is Love but can't control physics, weather, etc. You now believe in a spiritual resurrection not a physical one, even though the bible is extremely clear that it was a physical resurrection. You know in your heart of hearts that this is false. I'm sure that you were not taught this in seminary. I can't imagine any seminary teaching this.

I believe you bury yourself in corporal works of mercy (building houses, etc) to subconsciously amend for your spiritual transgressions. I'm not condemning your works. I think that they should be commended. I

Your logic is faulty. If you were honest with yourself, you could start at the basic monotheistic believe that God created the universe. That God is all-knowing, all-powerful, outside of time, and all-good. He can't do anything to contradict this. He revealed Himself to man over time. When the time was right, He sent His Son to us. He died for us and was resurrected - physically. He defeated death. We will now have an afterlife.

To say that the universe "simply is" is a cop out. It's an insult to your education.

PS. You also stated that if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved. Please remember this...

The devil and the all other demons believe in Jesus. They know he is the son of God. They will NOT be saved.

What Coke said , 47.

I share Coke's beliefs and his feeling towards you in this. He is WAAAAY better at delivering a message than I am and apparently doesn't get frustrated as I do.

Coke, excellent job sir.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

Waco1947 said:

---

Polycarp said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Quote:

---

There is not independent source as to God's all powerful abilities. Just the Bible and it's biased witness and to refer to it'd proof in the Bible is circular reasoning. Our faith is finally not dependent on an all powerful God but on a God who loves us. That's my premise. Tell me I am wrong.

---

I've asked twice, in two different threads... Do you believe that your "God who love us" created the universe ex nihilo?

---

Clearly 47's answer is no. His understanding of god does not allow such an event to happen. 47 is not one can not know if God did or did not create ex nihilism. 47 clearly states that god, does not have the power to create.

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

Saved from what?

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

---

Just adding some levity playing off of your statement. It is more likely that he was a nice hippie than a god who created the universe.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

---

Just adding some levity playing off of your statement. It is more likely that he was a nice hippie than a god who created the universe.

---

Unless you notice that Jesus' life and teachings changed the course of Human history more than anyone else in all of recorded time.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

---

Just adding some levity playing off of your statement. It is more likely that he was a nice hippie than a god who created the universe.

---

Unless you notice that Jesus' life and teachings changed the course of Human history more than anyone else in all of recorded time.

---

I'll acknowledge that the stories about Jesus' life and about his teachings have had huge impact on Human history. The way thing are going, Muhammad may have out paced him. Jesus' impact on human history has no bearing on the operation or creation of the universe.

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

It simply is.

---

With all due respect, this is very weak philosophy.

I believe that you know the truth - that God is All-Powerful. I also believe that you have allowed a very tragic incident in your ministry to jade and morph your theology to help you reconcile that event with reality.

I believe that you are a man of deep love of God so you didn't completely abandon your belief in Him; however, you have spent years searching, crafting, and researching a new theology to square this sad event.

You've created a god that is Love but can't control physics, weather, etc. You now believe in a spiritual resurrection not a physical one, even though the bible is extremely clear that it was a physical resurrection. You know in your heart of hearts that this is false. I'm sure that you were not taught this in seminary. I can't imagine any seminary teaching this.

I believe you bury yourself in corporal works of mercy (building houses, etc) to subconsciously amend for your spiritual transgressions. I'm not condemning your works. I think that they should be commended. I

Your logic is faulty. If you were honest with yourself, you could start at the basic monotheistic believe that God created the universe. That God is all-knowing, all-powerful, outside of time, and all-good. He can't do anything to contradict this. He revealed Himself to man over time. When the time was right, He sent His Son to us. He died for us and was resurrected - physically. He defeated death. We will now have an afterlife.

To say that the universe "simply is" is a cop out. It's an insult to your education.

PS. You also stated that if you believe in Jesus, you will be saved. Please remember this...

The devil and the all other demons believe in Jesus. They know he is the son of God. They will NOT be saved.

---

When Christians say "I Believe," it is meant in the context of faith. The essential component of believing insomething or someOne in this context is trust. Demons in the NT had knowledge of Jesus, but did not fall at his feet and place their trust (requiring, of course, true repentence) in him.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

---

Just adding some levity playing off of your statement. It is more likely that he was a nice hippie than a god who created the universe.

---

Unless you notice that Jesus' life and teachings changed the course of Human history more than anyone else in all of recorded time.

---

I'll acknowledge that the stories about Jesus' life and about his teachings have had huge impact on Human history. The way thing are going, Muhammad may have out paced him. Jesus' impact on human history has no bearing on the operation or creation of the universe.

---

I disagree. History has shown Islamic uprisings from time to time, but rarely to the general benefit of Mankind. While some Islamic scholars, notably the Sufis, advanced Mathematics and Medicine, there are no contributions from Islam in Philosophy, Law, Ethics or Human Rights. On the other hand, while Christianity has been perverted by individuals and in some cases national culture, on the whole Christianity has been good for Humanity, not only in various empirical Sciences, but also in transforming fundamental concepts in Ethics and Law, essentially creating the concept of Human Rights as we understand them today.

The idea that such radical change occurred spontaneously or by some random method is laughable, so any serious thought must lead to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was an exceptional man at the very least.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Coke Bear said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Exactly! But the God of live does exist and gave his son to die on the cross to show God's love for us. Rx nilhilio has nothing to do with it. Why does it matter? Believe in Jesus you will be saved.

---

47 - How did the universe come into existence?

Why does it matter? Because Jesus was just a nice hippie if God did not create the universe.

---

Occam's razor.

---

While it's true that many hippies need to shave, the banal default to "Occam's Razor" in this case is more laziness than cogent argument.

---

Ok. You're right. Jesus was a nice hippie.

---

Thanks TS for confirming my thought - you are taking a lazy approach to this discussion.

---

Just adding some levity playing off of your statement. It is more likely that he was a nice hippie than a god who created the universe.

---

Unless you notice that Jesus' life and teachings changed the course of Human history more than anyone else in all of recorded time.

---

I'll acknowledge that the stories about Jesus' life and about his teachings have had huge impact on Human history. The way thing are going, Muhammad may have out paced him. Jesus' impact on human history has no bearing on the operation or creation of the universe.

---

I disagree. History has shown Islamic uprisings from time to time, but rarely to the general benefit of Mankind. While some Islamic scholars, notably the Sufis, advanced Mathematics and Medicine, there are no contributions from Islam in Philosophy, Law, Ethics or Human Rights. On the other hand, while Christianity has been perverted by individuals and in some cases national culture, on the whole Christianity has been good for Humanity, not only in various empirical Sciences, but also in transforming fundamental concepts in Ethics and Law, essentially creating the concept of Human Rights as we understand them today.

The idea that such radical change occurred spontaneously or by some random method is laughable, so any serious thought must lead to the conclusion that Jesus Christ was an exceptional man at the very least.

---

I think we were on different lines of thought. You said ..."that Jesus' life and teachings changed the course of Human history more than anyone else in all of recorded time." That was the context I was responding in, and not if that was good or bad thing judgmentally. In that context Muhammad (albeit for bad) may have, or may change the course of Human history more than anyone else in all recorded time. Islam is out pacing the growth of Christianity in many regions around the world. At some point, it may become the dominant religion around the world.

TexasScientist said:

---

Islam is out pacing the growth of Christianity in many regions around the world. At some point, it may become the dominant religion around the world.

---

Irrelevant. At one time Caesar-worship was the dominant religion in the known world, but it had bubkus for lasting effect on the world.

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

You are very, very wrong, Waco.

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

It's a shame it's wrong to put a lower case "g" at the start of the sentence above. A lower case "g" would explain everything.

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

How then did this happen?

Mark 4:37-41 (Young's Literal Translation)

And there cometh a great storm of wind, and the waves were beating on the boat, so that it is now being filled, 38 and he himself was upon the stern, upon the pillow sleeping, and they wake him up, and say to him, 'Teacher, art thou not caring that we perish?' 39 And having waked up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, 'Peace, be stilled;' and the wind did lull, and there was a great calm: 40 and he said to them, 'Why are ye so fearful? how have ye not faith?' 41 and they feared a great fear, and said one to another, 'Who, then, is this, that even the wind and the sea do obey him?

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

How then did this happen?

Mark 4:37-41 (Young's Literal Translation)

And there cometh a great storm of wind, and the waves were beating on the boat, so that it is now being filled, 38 and he himself was upon the stern, upon the pillow sleeping, and they wake him up, and say to him, 'Teacher, art thou not caring that we perish?' 39 And having waked up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, 'Peace, be stilled;' and the wind did lull, and there was a great calm: 40 and he said to them, 'Why are ye so fearful? how have ye not faith?' 41 and they feared a great fear, and said one to another, 'Who, then, is this, that even the wind and the sea do obey him?

---

It didn't happen.

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

Brother, you are truly lost. I sincerely pray for you daily.

To reject an All-Powerful God, is to reject the teachings of Jesus. This is a heresy. Part of being a Christian is accepting his teachings. You are technically no-longer a Christian. You have made up your own narrative to fit you feelings. You have made your own religion.

Man should conform to God. God doesn't conform to man.

I do pray that you can reconcile this issue.

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

---

Read the definition again, 'generally accepted' is the defined authority.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

---

Read the definition again, 'generally accepted' is the defined authority.

---

What I said. Your views are heretical with Islam.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

---

Read the definition again, 'generally accepted' is the defined authority.

---

What I said. Your views are heretical with Islam.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

---

Read the definition again, 'generally accepted' is the defined authority.

---

What I said. Your views are heretical with Islam.

---

So now you're a mullah?

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

LIB,MR BEARS said:

---

47, here is an honest question for you. I'd like an honest answer.

Are you a heretic?

heretic
/hertik/
noun

[ol]

a person believing in or practicing religious heresy.
synonyms:
dissenter, nonconformist, apostate, freethinker, iconoclast; More

• a person holding an opinion at odds with what is generally accepted.

[/ol]

---

One person's heretic is another's authority.

---

Read the definition again, 'generally accepted' is the defined authority.

---

What I said. Your views are heretical with Islam.

---

So now you're a mullah. OK ...

TexasScientist said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Proves nothing. God is not all powerful

---

How then did this happen?

Mark 4:37-41 (Young's Literal Translation)

And there cometh a great storm of wind, and the waves were beating on the boat, so that it is now being filled, 38 and he himself was upon the stern, upon the pillow sleeping, and they wake him up, and say to him, 'Teacher, art thou not caring that we perish?' 39 And having waked up, he rebuked the wind, and said to the sea, 'Peace, be stilled;' and the wind did lull, and there was a great calm: 40 and he said to them, 'Why are ye so fearful? how have ye not faith?' 41 and they feared a great fear, and said one to another, 'Who, then, is this, that even the wind and the sea do obey him?

---

It didn't happen.

---

That's certainly your opinion, but I was particularly interested in Waco47's take.