Sciencism is a cult. It's not to be confused with Science itself.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Is God in control? 2nd Attempt
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Last: 5 yr ago by quash
Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Waco1947
How does a doctor express his/her moral capacity in the course of his work?
Waco1947
A true minister would know why.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Strange, that you do not, Waco.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I am a true minister and I know. I am asking Sam why he thinks so. It's called dialogue.Oldbear83 said:A true minister would know why.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Strange, that you do not, Waco.
Waco1947
God decides who is true; men boast in vain. You have referred to Matthew Chapter 24 before - remember, Waco, how many of the 'goats' were so sure they were the good guys.Waco1947 said:I am a true minister and I know. I am asking Sam why he thinks so. It's called dialogue.Oldbear83 said:A true minister would know why.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Strange, that you do not, Waco.
I am not here to attack you, Waco, but to call you - as John the Baptist and Jeremiah before him did others like you - to candor and contrition. We are all sinners, but those who claim the pastor's mantle are held to higher account.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Christianity is closer to a cult by definition. Sciencism is a loose urban term and sometimes used perjoratively without a certain definition. Scientism is what I think you are really looking for, and scientism is not a a religion.Oldbear83 said:
Sciencism is a cult. It's not to be confused with Science itself.
Is this history of religion accurate to you?
From the time humans woke up and said "I am human. I can communicate ; I can remember; I can learn; I can think; I will die;" humans saw a powerful earth and heavens - wind, sun, light, rain, earthquakes, volcanoes, droughts, floods, gravity (?).
In this dangerous world of forces they saw gods and thought that they could control these gods with
1) special knowledge (some of it science based like equinoxes)
2) , ritual (right dances, songs, movements) or
3) right sacrifices. Religion was an effort to control god.
4) Then of course there is death. We know we die so myths and rituals were developed for an "afterlife." And there gods controlled that life too
Every ancient culture had priests, rituals, notions of afterlife.
As scientific knowledge increased the power of priests decreased. People began to discover its out of our control.
God was reduced to the occasional miracle a "god of the gaps" to explains the unexplainable.
BUT then wiser humans began to re-contemplate who God might be because science was explaining away their old gods.
This new thinking began to associate "God" with love, justice, hope, morals, forgiveness. This God (who is present in all cultures but with different names) is the God that people experience and place their faith in.
BUT the old God sure is hard to let go of. HE has to be charge of everything so I can continue to manipulate him with prayers, gifts to the church, hating the right people, so I can be rich or happy or loved.
BUT God is so far above our simple understanding of love and justice and forgiveness and hope that we soon discover that God can't be manipulated. If God could be manipulated then that god is to woryhlesss.
BUT is - God is in love, in hope, in justice, in forgiveness. God is present in these forms. God showed at least us Christians that the truest form of God's presence with us is Jesus - immanuel.
Our presence to one another in love is the greatest sign of God's existence.
God is not the god of gaps but the transcendent/spiritual of the here and now and also the beyond of all human understanding. God is love beyond human ability to fully understand. It is the mystery of the cross.
From the time humans woke up and said "I am human. I can communicate ; I can remember; I can learn; I can think; I will die;" humans saw a powerful earth and heavens - wind, sun, light, rain, earthquakes, volcanoes, droughts, floods, gravity (?).
In this dangerous world of forces they saw gods and thought that they could control these gods with
1) special knowledge (some of it science based like equinoxes)
2) , ritual (right dances, songs, movements) or
3) right sacrifices. Religion was an effort to control god.
4) Then of course there is death. We know we die so myths and rituals were developed for an "afterlife." And there gods controlled that life too
Every ancient culture had priests, rituals, notions of afterlife.
As scientific knowledge increased the power of priests decreased. People began to discover its out of our control.
God was reduced to the occasional miracle a "god of the gaps" to explains the unexplainable.
BUT then wiser humans began to re-contemplate who God might be because science was explaining away their old gods.
This new thinking began to associate "God" with love, justice, hope, morals, forgiveness. This God (who is present in all cultures but with different names) is the God that people experience and place their faith in.
BUT the old God sure is hard to let go of. HE has to be charge of everything so I can continue to manipulate him with prayers, gifts to the church, hating the right people, so I can be rich or happy or loved.
BUT God is so far above our simple understanding of love and justice and forgiveness and hope that we soon discover that God can't be manipulated. If God could be manipulated then that god is to woryhlesss.
BUT is - God is in love, in hope, in justice, in forgiveness. God is present in these forms. God showed at least us Christians that the truest form of God's presence with us is Jesus - immanuel.
Our presence to one another in love is the greatest sign of God's existence.
God is not the god of gaps but the transcendent/spiritual of the here and now and also the beyond of all human understanding. God is love beyond human ability to fully understand. It is the mystery of the cross.
Waco1947
God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
So what natural laws was God created under?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
None. He was never created.TexasScientist said:So what natural laws was God created under?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Then by your previous reasoning, he doesn't exist.Sam Lowry said:None. He was never created.TexasScientist said:So what natural laws was God created under?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Waco1947
47 has created his own god.
Discuss it with him
Discuss it with him
Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
How so? I don't think I implied that.TexasScientist said:Then by your previous reasoning, he doesn't exist.Sam Lowry said:None. He was never created.TexasScientist said:So what natural laws was God created under?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium."Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Actually, there is quite a bit more empirical evidence supporting the value of Christianity, than of Sciencism (sorry you find that word discomforting, but from your posts you are certainly one of them).TexasScientist said:Christianity is closer to a cult by definition. Sciencism is a loose urban term and sometimes used perjoratively without a certain definition. Scientism is what I think you are really looking for, and scientism is not a a religion.Oldbear83 said:
Sciencism is a cult. It's not to be confused with Science itself.
And devotion to Chance as the reason for the Universe's existence is absolutely a religion, if a weak and dismal one.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
. Cool you showed off. Translation pleaseSam Lowry said:"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium."Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Waco1947
Oldbear83 said:Actually, there is quite a bit more empirical evidence supporting the value of Christianity, than of Sciencism (sorry you find that word discomforting, but from your posts you are certainly one of them).TexasScientist said:Christianity is closer to a cult by definition. Sciencism is a loose urban term and sometimes used perjoratively without a certain definition. Scientism is what I think you are really looking for, and scientism is not a a religion.Oldbear83 said:
Sciencism is a cult. It's not to be confused with Science itself.
And devotion to Chance as the reason for the Universe's existence is absolutely a religion, if a weak and dismal one.
I can think of some things that support the value of xtianity, one being the freedom the church finally allowed scholars that lead to the primacy of the scientific method as the means of interpreting the observable universe. But what did you have in mind?
“Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” (The Law, p.6) Frederic Bastiat
why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Waco1947
Lots of noise here.
Anyone want to discuss the topic?
Anyone want to discuss the topic?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I will ask againWaco1947 said:why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Waco1947
Waco1947 said:I will ask againWaco1947 said:why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
That's all.
"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.
YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:I will ask againWaco1947 said:why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
That's all.
"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.
I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?
Waco1947
Just curious -when you attended seminary, what did you learn on that point?Waco1947 said:YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:I will ask againWaco1947 said:why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
That's all.
"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.
I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I learned that Genesis was a story of faith - our relationship to God. We are God's children.
So do you believe the accounts in Scripture? Or do you count Man's opinion above God's word?Waco1947 said:
I learned that Genesis was a story of faith - our relationship to God. We are God's children.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
I believe that Biblical story creation is about our creation as God's children. Genesis is a faith story first and formost. Right?Oldbear83 said:So do you believe the accounts in Scripture? Or do you count Man's opinion above God's word?Waco1947 said:
I learned that Genesis was a story of faith - our relationship to God. We are God's children.
Le sigh.Waco1947 said:. Cool you showed off. Translation pleaseSam Lowry said:"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium."Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
That's all you see there?Waco1947 said:I believe that Biblical story creation is about our creation as God's children. Genesis is a faith story first and formost. Right?Oldbear83 said:So do you believe the accounts in Scripture? Or do you count Man's opinion above God's word?Waco1947 said:
I learned that Genesis was a story of faith - our relationship to God. We are God's children.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Bless your heart. I believe in the one God all powerful of heaven and earth visible and invisible. Now why the hell do you mean. It's a credo (opinion)Sam Lowry said:Le sigh.Waco1947 said:. Cool you showed off. Translation pleaseSam Lowry said:"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium."Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
You asked whether you should take my word for it. I'm saying no.Waco1947 said:Bless your heart. I believe in the one God all powerful of heaven and earth visible and invisible. Now why the hell do you mean. It's a credo (opinion)Sam Lowry said:Le sigh.Waco1947 said:. Cool you showed off. Translation pleaseSam Lowry said:"Credo in unum Deum, Patrem omnipotentem, factorem caeli et terrae, visibilium omnium et invisibilium."Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Waco1947 said:YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:I will ask againWaco1947 said:why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?YoakDaddy said:Waco1947 said:By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?Sam Lowry said:God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.Waco1947 said:Why?Sam Lowry said:No.Waco1947 said:
Is God subject to physics or not?
Genesis 1:1.
Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."
That's all.
"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.
I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?
Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.