JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

The topic of this thread asks if God is in control. This is a human arrogance, to focus on control when other matters are of greater importance.

For thousands of years in human history, people have fought to gain control of materials and people, but everyone understood there are limits to all power by humans. Disease, disaster, fate, none of these can be controlled by men and all men fall sooner or later to one enemy or another. But in the last century or so, humans have become arrogant, thinking they can control everything, ignoring the truth of their limits. God has, for them, become inconvenient, not least because as the Creator of all things, He is immune to the control by those creatures.

Humans have learned much about Physics, from Newton then from Einstein. It is therefore no surprise to find that just as Einstein's space differs in rules from Newton's space, so the Quantum realm follows different rules, yet it must be understood that rules still apply to Quantum Physics.

That is the necessary next step of any productive discussion along those lines. To imagine Chance rules the multiverse is to deceive yourself.

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

I learned that Genesis was a story of faith - our relationship to God. We are God's children.

---

So do you believe the accounts in Scripture? Or do you count Man's opinion above God's word?

---

Doesn't the tenets of Scripture originate in the opinions of man?

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

The Bible can't be the final authority, or any authority on physics or creation, becuase the accounts of Genesis have been observed and proven to be false.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

TexasScientist said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

The Bible can't be the final authority, or any authority on physics or creation, becuase biblical accounts of Genesis have been observed and proven to be false.

---

'Proven'? Not so.

You have an opinion, but proof? Not so much.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Bullying? I asked a question, and made a comment in support of the question. Do you have an anwer to the question?

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Bullying? I asked a question, and made a comment in support of the question. Do you have an anwer to the question?

---

I have answered. Read it carefully, then respond as you will, but yes, up to now you have only taunted and bullied. Not helpful for advancing a discussion.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Bullying? I asked a question, and made a comment in support of the question. Do you have an anwer to the question?

---

I have answered. Read it carefully, then respond as you will, but yes, up to now you have only taunted and bullied. Not helpful for advancing a discussion.

---

I'll ask again. Where is the evidence for those things (Eden, tree of life, angel) that you ask Quash has he disproved? I haven't seen the answer to which you are referring..

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

I'll get to it when the discovery is made.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Humans are in charge of the investigation. By necessity: we're the only ones involved so far. If aliens or gods want in they are welcome.

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Bullying? I asked a question, and made a comment in support of the question. Do you have an anwer to the question?

---

I have answered. Read it carefully, then respond as you will, but yes, up to now you have only taunted and bullied. Not helpful for advancing a discussion.

---

I'll ask again. Where is the evidence for those things (Eden, tree of life, angel) that you ask Quash has he disproved? I haven't seen the answer to which you are referring..

---

** sigh **

You just ignored what I wrote. I, like you, stated an opinion. You, unlike me, ignored the discussion and tried to play 'district attorney' so you could bully honest opinion in some kind of cross-examination.

That does nothing to advance the discussion, and so is useless noise here.

I presented a post regarding your Quantum Physics point, perhaps you would like to speak to it?

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

---

I'll get to it when the discovery is made.

---

IOW, no, you're just trolling. OK then.

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Humans are in charge of the investigation. By necessity: we're the only ones involved so far. If aliens or gods want in they are welcome.

---

So, you imagine you control all the variables in our environment? If not, your conclusions are therefore invalid to the degree you lack such control.

Science being something more than simply claiming you 'win', after all ...

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Humans are in charge of the investigation. By necessity: we're the only ones involved so far. If aliens or gods want in they are welcome.

---

So, you imagine you control all the variables in our environment? If not, your conclusions are therefore invalid to the degree you lack such control.

Science being something more than simply claiming you 'win', after all ...

---

Observation does not require control of the variables, just accounting for them.

I'm not simply claiming a win. You asked me to disprove an unproven claim. And I didn't start this line, JXL did with gis response to archaeological proof for Hero Twins and Marduk. If you think it is wrong to demand proof for Mayan beliefs but not xtian ones I need to know why.

There is absolutely no proof that God did this. However, there is faith. If you want proof, stick with something that doesn't involve what your heart or soul knows.

https://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2018/11/09/lodi-second-chance-brain-tumor/

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

---

Humans are in charge of the investigation. By necessity: we're the only ones involved so far. If aliens or gods want in they are welcome.

---

So, you imagine you control all the variables in our environment? If not, your conclusions are therefore invalid to the degree you lack such control.

Science being something more than simply claiming you 'win', after all ...

---

Observation does not require control of the variables, just accounting for them.

I'm not simply claiming a win. You asked me to disprove an unproven claim. And I didn't start this line, JXL did with gis response to archaeological proof for Hero Twins and Marduk. If you think it is wrong to demand proof for Mayan beliefs but not xtian ones I need to know why.

---

You might try reading the posts in this thread, the ones making a point rather than just flinging useless noise.

I find it sad that the posts with content are ignored, and intelligent posters refuse to do anything to advance the discussion.

Believers are not going to convince non-believers, nor vice versa, but understanding of opinions can be advanced.

Give it a try, you may be pleased with the results.

There is no proof whatsoever that your spouse loves you or has ever loved you.

Is there any proof that you are a lovable person? If so, show me.

For all the things science can do, faith and love are not in that group.

SciGuy and Quash, I am confident that you both remember the feelings, the innate knowledge that you both had at one time that there was something more to our world than space dust and primordial ooze. I pray that you both find a way to swallow your pride and actually seek out the truth rather than support for your preconceived notions.

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

TexasScientist said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

quash said:

---

JXL said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

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God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

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By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

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Genesis 1:1.

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why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

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I will ask again

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Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

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I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

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Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

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You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

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On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

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Where is the evidence? Extraordinary claims should require extraordinary evidence. To disprove them, they must be located outside of someone's mind.

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Evidence is confirmed by the authority in charge of the investigation. You, I submit, are not that authority.

This, I remind you, is a discussion. You don't own it and you don't get to make the rules.

You have presented an opinion based on Quantum Physics, to which I responded. If you want a productive discussion, I'd like to read your considered response ... not some puerile attempt to bully people into silence or submission.

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Bullying? I asked a question, and made a comment in support of the question. Do you have an anwer to the question?

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I have answered. Read it carefully, then respond as you will, but yes, up to now you have only taunted and bullied. Not helpful for advancing a discussion.

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I'll ask again. Where is the evidence for those things (Eden, tree of life, angel) that you ask Quash has he disproved? I haven't seen the answer to which you are referring..

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** sigh **

You just ignored what I wrote. I, like you, stated an opinion. You, unlike me, ignored the discussion and tried to play 'district attorney' so you could bully honest opinion in some kind of cross-examination.

That does nothing to advance the discussion, and so is useless noise here.

I presented a post regarding your Quantum Physics point, perhaps you would like to speak to it?

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I think it is obvious you don't have an answer, because there is no evidence. Perhaps I should have stated that sooner. I'll go back and look for your post on quantum physics.

LIB,MR BEARS said:

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There is no proof whatsoever that your spouse loves you or has ever loved you.

Is there any proof that you are a lovable person? If so, show me.

For all the things science can do, faith and love are not in that group.

SciGuy and Quash, I am confident that you both remember the feelings, the innate knowledge that you both had at one time that there was something more to our world than space dust and primordial ooze. I pray that you both find a way to swallow your pride and actually seek out the truth rather than support for your preconceived notions.

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Start from a factual position: my preconceived notion was in religion.

As to what science can do in the realms you declared off limits.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/love-actually-science-behind-lust-attraction-companionship/
https://examinedexistence.com/why-we-fall-in-love-the-science-of-love/
https://gumroad.com/l/faith
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-faith-column/2009/02/religious-concepts-science

Feelings are not beyond the scope of scientific research.

Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Is God subject to physics or not?

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No.

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Why?

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God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

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Likewise with other ancient religions

Waco1947 said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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quash said:

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You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

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On the other hand, have you disproved those things?

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Likewise with other ancient religions

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With that in mind, in just which religion are you credentialed as a minister, Waco?

I have great respect, personally, for many Jewish Rabbis and Buddhist teachers (the monks, not so much, but that's a long story), and for some eminent Mullahs of Islam in the Houston area, especially the few Sufis I have met. Good is good, and shows in many people.

I appreciate wisdom and compassion wherever it appears, but for all that, I do not confuse dogma with the believers. Christian dogma - at least where it comes from Scripture - is reliable for many good things, but those who spend their time focusing on minutia rather than the message are ill suited for the journey we all must make in our souls.

I would think putting people into space disproves the account of the Tower of Babel.

The tallest tower of biblical times was believed to be one in Babylon that was 300ft tall.

So God got worried about a 300ft tower but didn't do anything to stop space exploration?

It just doesn't pass the logic test.

quash said:

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JXL said:

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Waco1947 said:

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YoakDaddy said:

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Waco1947 said:

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Waco1947 said:

---

YoakDaddy said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Waco1947 said:

---

Is God subject to physics or not?

---

No.

---

Why?

---

God created all things. The laws of physics hold that nothing can be created from nothing. Therefore God is not subject to the laws of physics.

---

By what authority do you make this declaration? I just take your word for it?

---

Genesis 1:1.

---

why Genesis 1? By what authority is the Bible is the final authority on physics creation?

---

I will ask again

---

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth."

That's all.

"Ask again" all you want you pompous *******. I was on a flight home. Some of us work for a living.

---

I believe I am asking why The God of Genesis and not the Hero Twins of the Navajos or Quetzalcoatl of the Aztecs or Marduk of the Babylonians. Why is our creation story more authoritative than theirs?

---

Let's compare the archaeological evidence supporting the Bible to that supporting any of those other religious writings and see if we can answer your question.

---

You found the garden of Eden? The tree of life, the angel with a flaming sword? The tower of Babel?

---

"It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a Biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible. And, by the same token, proper evaluation of Biblical descriptions has often led to amazing discoveries."

archaeologist Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert

But if you'd like to quote a professional archaeologist saying something similar about the writings on Quetzalcoatl, by all means have at it.

The Great Flood would/could have destroyed the Garden of Eden. Once destroyed there would be no need for an angel with a flaming sword.

Unless of course:
1. The tree of life can obviously not be killed. How could it be a tree of life if it died?
2. The great flood never really happened.

El Oso said:

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I would think putting people into space disproves the account of the Tower of Babel.

The tallest tower of biblical times was believed to be one in Babylon that was 300ft tall.

So God got worried about a 300ft tower but didn't do anything to stop space exploration?

It just doesn't pass the logic test.

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Babel was about the belief that Man was equal to God, and could prove it by reaching Heaven through his own wit and effort. Space exploration is about exploring the natural environment beyond our home.

Also, please consider the implications of trying to build a 30-story building in pre-Rome days, the manpower and material demands required just to make the effort.

Context is important to all such discussions.

quash said:

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LIB,MR BEARS said:

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There is no proof whatsoever that your spouse loves you or has ever loved you.

Is there any proof that you are a lovable person? If so, show me.

For all the things science can do, faith and love are not in that group.

SciGuy and Quash, I am confident that you both remember the feelings, the innate knowledge that you both had at one time that there was something more to our world than space dust and primordial ooze. I pray that you both find a way to swallow your pride and actually seek out the truth rather than support for your preconceived notions.

---

Start from a factual position: my preconceived notion was in religion.

As to what science can do in the realms you declared off limits.
http://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2017/love-actually-science-behind-lust-attraction-companionship/
https://examinedexistence.com/why-we-fall-in-love-the-science-of-love/
https://gumroad.com/l/faith
https://www.newstatesman.com/blogs/the-faith-column/2009/02/religious-concepts-science

Feelings are not beyond the scope of scientific research.

---

proof?

Exactly. The technology made it a non starter from the start, yet still God directly intervened to stop it.

6 The Lord said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

It seems to me you have two problems on your hands:
1. It's a story with a point and not necessarily an actual event or

2. It disproves the power of God because he thought intersecting multiple languages would confuse and stop human growth. Yet look at us now. 13 different countries worked together on the International Space Station and we have the Hubble Telescope which may have found the hand of God.

El Oso said:

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Exactly. The technology made it a non starter from the start, yet still God directly intervened to stop it.

6 The Lord said, "If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other."

It seems to me you have two problems on your hands:
1. It's a story with a point and not necessarily an actual event or

2. It disproves the power of God because he thought intersecting multiple languages would confuse and stop human growth. Yet look at us now. 13 different countries worked together on the International Space Station and we have the Hubble Telescope which may have found the hand of God.

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Orrrrrrrrrrrr, God has a purpose which humans frequently misunderstand. Babel was allowed to start, but used by God for His purposes. One might say as much for many human efforts.

And what purpose would that be?

He deliberately confused their language to stop human development/arrogance/whatever you want to call it. The text is quite clear.

Yet, it is quite obvious in the modern world that we have overcome His effort.

I have an app on my phone that lets me talk to anyone in the world in their language and they to me in mine.

El Oso said:

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And what purpose would that be?

He deliberately confused their language to stop human development/arrogance/whatever you want to call it. The text is quite clear.

Yet, it is quite obvious in the modern world that we have overcome His effort.

I have an app on my phone that lets me talk to anyone in the world in their language and they to me in mine.

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Nope. Read all of Genesis sometime, to see if you catch a consistent theme or message.

The idea that "[Man] has overcome [God]" is just more of that arrogance so popular today.

It's there if you look.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I've read the bible cover to cover more times than you have.

I've done it as recently as last month (It actually took me longer than the month, but that was the end of the last time).

When I read the Bible closely in a historical or inerrant way, I come away with a lot more questions than answers.

El Oso said:

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And what purpose would that be?

He deliberately confused their language to stop human development/arrogance/whatever you want to call it. The text is quite clear.

Yet, it is quite obvious in the modern world that we have overcome His effort.

I have an app on my phone that lets me talk to anyone in the world in their language and they to me in mine.

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and all those cultures are blending together so well, right?