quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

Forest Bueller_bf said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

Or we could just adapt Canada's standards for immigration, with them being considered a compassionate, woke, progressive, nation why don't we follow their pattern of immigration standards.

---

Right? Or let's just follow the example of any major superpower country that has seen success with open borders. I can't think of any though.

I wish we could pause all immigration for several years until we can establish standards such as the amount of immigrants per year that are let in. 1 million per year is too many and it looks like we are on pace for 2.5million illegals this year. I just don't want to live in this country with another 100 or 200 million people in it.

muddybrazos said:

---

I wish we could pause all immigration for several years until we can establish standards such as the amount of immigrants per year that are let in. 1 million per year is too many and it looks like we are on pace for 2.5million illegals this year. I just don't want to live in this country with another 100 or 200 million people in it.

---

Wyoming will still have plenty of elbow room .

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

muddybrazos said:

---

I wish we could pause all immigration for several years until we can establish standards such as the amount of immigrants per year that are let in. 1 million per year is too many and it looks like we are on pace for 2.5million illegals this year. I just don't want to live in this country with another 100 or 200 million people in it.

---

Given that it takes ten years or more to get in "the right way" we have all the pause needed.

But nothing will change unless people accept that the state is mucking around in private property interests.

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

---

im not getting involved with either of you, but Cato is anything but left wing

trey3216 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

---

Cato is anything but left wing

---

Would you mind detailing how you have reached this conclusion ?

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

---

Cato is anything but left wing

---

Would you mind detailing how you have reached this conclusion ?

---

I'm guessing the fact it's a famous right-wing site is what tipped him off.

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

---

Cato is anything but left wing

---

Would you mind detailing how you have reached this conclusion ?

---

I'm guessing the fact it's a famous right-wing site is what tipped him off.

---

' Facts ' without supportive facts are merely subjective opinions.....'famous' or otherwise .

You are relying more on snarky comments lately.....rather than your traditional informative, substantive contributions

That's unfortunate.

Canada2017 said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Canada2017 said:

---

trey3216 said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

The Biden Administration is a complete failure

Panama government warns thousands more migrants coming for border https://t.co/ZpAdewlCHn via @nypost

— Comfortably Smug (@ComfortablySmug) September 30, 2021

Very cool of these future doctors and lawyers to come here and enrich us.

---

How elitist of you.

Our country is enriched in a million ways, try talking to a stranger in another country sometime.

---

Exactly! Economics is TOTALLY elitist. It's pure emotion that should drive our immigration policy, not silly things like history or math. When will these xenophobes learn, amiright?

---

Economics is why we should reform our immigration policy and let workers work and employers employ. But you xenophobic statists haven't read your founding documents. Not even the Federalist Papers talk about excluding aliens.

---

There we go! Emotions! Race cards! Labels of being afraid of one thing or another! Yes, no facts, no economics or references to anything other than emotion and ad hominem. You and me, bro, we think the same!

---

I have posted the data plenty of times, all you have to do is look at the threads I've started.

BTW: can you address the substance without going emo?

---

Substance? You and I don't deal in substance, remember? Sure, no country has ever survived with open borders, but we use emotions to say they are all genuine hard workers who are better than mere lazy Americans so we can label anyone who has studied history as xenophobes or racists! We can plainly see paying people not to work doesn't work, but that's silly economics talk. Emotion tells us employers should just pay more if they want employees! 400,000 will be the mark for one month of illegal aliens entering the country and common sense would tell some folks that letting an army of destitute third world poor invade our country will have huge negative impacts, ESPECIALLY during a global pandemic, but EMOTION lets us ride with the narrative that Covid doesn't come with third world poor so we don't need to test them. Just release them and only deport the illegals who have other crimes they've committed while here and only enforce mandates against those lazy ******* xenophobic us citizens! Emotions wins the day, bro! Celebrate!

---

My bad. I thought you could hold a conversation.

---

I know you can formulate a reasonable post when you want to, so when you make garbage posts you get garbage in return.

---

Our country is enriched by migrant labor, we all benefit. Economically. I have started threads citing the data.

Your ball.

---

Our country is hurt by illegal immigration, in direct contrast to the vast benefits of legal immigration. Economically. There are multiple studies that have shown this to be true.
Back to you.

---

https://sicem365.com/forums/7/topics/27277/replies/695158

---

I cite the responses to your thread as refutation that needn't be repeated here.

---

None of the responses refuted the data. You are welcome to try.

---

Sure they did. Many also pointed out the glaring flaws in not referencing the rise in crime that accompanies illegal immigration. Add to that your link was made well before these record numbers of crossings and the reasons they are crossing and we see that your link fails to actually address the problem at all. But go on and find more links that agree with your narrative while excluding pertinent data. I'll stick with economics and history. Here's a link to a pro-open borders book being sold by the author of that blog you linked. https://www.amazon.com/Open-Immigration-Yea-Encounter-Broadsides/dp/159403821X?tag=catoinstitute-20

---

6. "Immigrants are a major source of crime."
This myth has been around for over a century. It wasn't true in 1896, 1909, 1931, 1994, or more recently. Immigrants are less likely to be incarcerated for violent and property crimes and cities with more immigrants and their descendants are more peaceful. Some immigrants do commit violent and property crimes but, overall, they are less likely to do so.
The most contentious debate concerns whether illegal immigrants are more likely to be criminals than natives or legal immigrants. A recent finding on this issue shows that illegal immigration is not correlated with violent crime rates nor is it causal. Data limitations on the federal government force researchers to estimate the incarcerated illegal immigrant population using the residual estimation method which finds that illegal immigrants are much less likely to be incarcerated than native-born Americans but more likely than legal immigrants. The state of Texas actually recorded arrests and convictions for specific crimes by the immigration status of the arrestee and convict. In 2015 in Texas, there were 1,794 convictions against natives per 100,000 natives, 782 convictions of illegal immigrants for every 100,000 illegal immigrants, and only 262 convictions of legal immigrants per 100,000 of them. For all but four crimes that accounted for 0.18 percent of all criminal convictions in Texas in 2015, there were fewer convictions against illegal immigrant than against natives. The year 2016 shows even lower criminal conviction rates for illegal immigrants relative to natives in Texas.

Plenty of data there, but absolutely none in your response. This suggests you did not read the post.

---

Nice try, but I specifically said ILLEGAL immigrants, so the left wing Cato link is out. Your subsequent links are mere estimates made by people wanting an outcome that shows illegal aliens are not prone to crime but at least they admit they cannot actually count the number of illegals who are incarcerated. Illegals don't see convictions when they don't see a judge. The promise to appear is just words, like their promise to appear before an immigration judge. They cannot exist here without committing fraud and driving without a license. They simply are not entitled to live in the US. We have laws that either apply to everyone or to no one.

---

Cato is anything but left wing

---

Would you mind detailing how you have reached this conclusion ?

---

I'm guessing the fact it's a famous right-wing site is what tipped him off.

---

' Facts ' without supportive facts are merely subjective opinions.....'famous' or otherwise .

You are relying more on snarky comments lately.....rather than your traditional informative, substantive contributions

That's unfortunate.

---

I wasn't belittling your knowledge of libertarian media, just found your question kind of funny.

FWIW, the Cato analysis misses the fact that while illegal immigrants may have a lower crime rate than natives, they have a much higher crime rate than white natives. This is why whites tend to resent them despite the neatly arranged statistics.

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

One drop, that's right. One crime that could have been avoided through enforcement of current law is too many. Well put.
Why would we reform immigration when we don't even ask hundreds of thousands of illegals to adhere to the current immigration laws? You want to speed up the legal process for immigration? Stop allowing illegals to flood the system. Stop rewarding their breaking of our laws. The simple truth is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood our borders, unvetted and unvaccinated, is the surest way to destroy this country. A simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

NEW POLL (Quinnipiac):

Biden approval: 38-53

Issues:
COVID: 48-50
Economy: 39-55
Commander-in-chief: 37-58
Taxes: 37-54
Immigration: 25-64
Border : 23-67
Honesty: 44-50
Leadership: 41-56
Competency: 42-55https://t.co/pir8HTxlwh

— Eric Cunningham (@decunningham2) October 6, 2021

those border/immigration numbers...

Guess all those Mexican Americans in El Paso and throughout southern New Mexico put iron bars on the doors and windows of their homes just for looks .

Who knew ?

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

Dear Mr. Libertarian,

You may want to rethink yours stance on term limits. You know, as a Libertarian.

The average Libertarian is for term limits. Most believe it's a good way to shrink the size of gov't. Also, because Libertarians tend to believe that career politicians are entagled with special interest groups and that special interest groups are a reason why the scope of the gov't increases in size.

Hell, the co-founder of the very Libertarian CATO Institute even argued that the careerist Congress and its seniority system create "adverse preselection."

Many Libertarians believe that the high reelection rate of members of Congress, especially in the House, 98% over the past 30 years, is something you see in Russia, not in America; And it helps create a permanent ruling class.

Most Libertarians want a citizen legislature and a citizen Congress. To get to that, we need term limits.

https://www.cato.org/testimony/congressional-term-limits#

Wangchung said:

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quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

One drop, that's right. One crime that could have been avoided through enforcement of current law is too many. Well put.
Why would we reform immigration when we don't even ask hundreds of thousands of illegals to adhere to the current immigration laws? You want to speed up the legal process for immigration? Stop allowing illegals to flood the system. Stop rewarding their breaking of our laws. The simple truth is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood our borders, unvetted and unvaccinated, is the surest way to destroy this country. A simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

You just roll right past a key point: the citizens that exercise their right to hire migrant labor. That is currently illegal, but I hear no cries for enforcement from you. Why is there no moniker for "illegal employers"?

Rawhide said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

Dear Mr. Libertarian,

You may want to rethink yours stance on term limits. You know, as a Libertarian.

The average Libertarian is for term limits. Most believe it's a good way to shrink the size of gov't. Also, because Libertarians tend to believe that career politicians are entagled with special interest groups and that special interest groups are a reason why the scope of the gov't increases in size.

Hell, the co-founder of the very Libertarian CATO Institute even argued that the careerist Congress and its seniority system create "adverse preselection."

Many Libertarians believe that the high reelection rate of members of Congress, especially in the House, 98% over the past 30 years, is something you see in Russia, not in America; And it helps create a permanent ruling class.

Most Libertarians want a citizen legislature and a citizen Congress. To get to that, we need term limits.

https://www.cato.org/testimony/congressional-term-limits#

---

See plank 3.6 of the LP platform.

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

One drop, that's right. One crime that could have been avoided through enforcement of current law is too many. Well put.
Why would we reform immigration when we don't even ask hundreds of thousands of illegals to adhere to the current immigration laws? You want to speed up the legal process for immigration? Stop allowing illegals to flood the system. Stop rewarding their breaking of our laws. The simple truth is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood our borders, unvetted and unvaccinated, is the surest way to destroy this country. A simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

You just roll right past a key point: the citizens that exercise their right to hire migrant labor. That is currently illegal, but I hear no cries for enforcement from you. Why is there no moniker for "illegal employers"?

---

Actually I already suggested we enforce the laws on the books rather than reforming anything. Grab your glasses and read again. Then address this simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

well, boys, I'm going down there hunting at the end of the month, so I will report back to the good sicem 365 peeps. Hunting on a friends ranch just out of Eagle Pass. He say he has Haitian's running amok. Will report back.

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

One drop, that's right. One crime that could have been avoided through enforcement of current law is too many. Well put.
Why would we reform immigration when we don't even ask hundreds of thousands of illegals to adhere to the current immigration laws? You want to speed up the legal process for immigration? Stop allowing illegals to flood the system. Stop rewarding their breaking of our laws. The simple truth is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood our borders, unvetted and unvaccinated, is the surest way to destroy this country. A simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

You just roll right past a key point: the citizens that exercise their right to hire migrant labor. That is currently illegal, but I hear no cries for enforcement from you. Why is there no moniker for "illegal employers"?

---

Actually I already suggested we enforce the laws on the books rather than reforming anything. Grab your glasses and read again. Then address this simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

What superpower denies natural rights?

Sorry. Shorter list: which superpower protects them?

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

quash said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

muddybrazos said:

---

Wangchung said:

---

Meh, they claim to be libertarian yet push globalist narratives, and I've seen those types around here who are definitely not right-leaning.

---

I think open borders is common among some libertarians. The Koch brothers are ibertarian globalists bc cheap labor is in the interest of their business. As to the notions that immigrants do more crime that is only partially true. Legal immigrants do less crime. Illegals for the most part probably do less crime since they don't want to risk deportation but we know for a fact that many illegal immigrants are criminals and are involved with cartels & gangs.

---

We can leave legal immigrants out of the discussion, because save for a small number of people most Americans like legal immigrants. Illegal aliens are illegal for a myriad of reasons including not being able to legally immigrate due to criminal records in their home country. The problem is ANY crimes committed by people who aren't supposed to be here is too much. We have enough of our own crime to deal with and we don't need softhearted and softheaded people determining our immigration policies based on emotions and fear of being seen as racist/xenophobic. It's funny, the same people always whining about low wages are the ones pushing for open borders and depressed wages. They think with their hearts and we all suffer.

---

The new one drop rule. Any crime is one too many. IF it's committed by one of THEM.

The sound economic reasons in favor of immigration reform is not even the best reason. Liberty issues are the highest reason: private employers should be able to decide who they hire. This is a fraction of a step removed from my argument on why term limits are inherently undemocratic: voters should be able to elect their chosen candidate, not be forced to move on from someone they support merely because an arbitrary number of years have passed.

If you see an emotional component to this argument you brought it into the room. See the first paragraph.

---

One drop, that's right. One crime that could have been avoided through enforcement of current law is too many. Well put.
Why would we reform immigration when we don't even ask hundreds of thousands of illegals to adhere to the current immigration laws? You want to speed up the legal process for immigration? Stop allowing illegals to flood the system. Stop rewarding their breaking of our laws. The simple truth is allowing hundreds of thousands of people to flood our borders, unvetted and unvaccinated, is the surest way to destroy this country. A simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

You just roll right past a key point: the citizens that exercise their right to hire migrant labor. That is currently illegal, but I hear no cries for enforcement from you. Why is there no moniker for "illegal employers"?

---

Actually I already suggested we enforce the laws on the books rather than reforming anything. Grab your glasses and read again. Then address this simple question; what superpower has ever existed and thrived with open borders?

---

What superpower denies natural rights?

Sorry. Shorter list: which superpower
protects them?

---

Open borders is not a natural right. So again, what superpower that exists now or at any time in human history has ever been prosperous with open borders?

J.R. said:

---

well, boys, I'm going down there hunting at the end of the month, so I will report back to the good sicem 365 peeps. Hunting on a friends ranch just out of Eagle Pass. He say he has Haitian's running amok. Will report back.

---

Hog hunting again ?

Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, boys, I'm going down there hunting at the end of the month, so I will report back to the good sicem 365 peeps. Hunting on a friends ranch just out of Eagle Pass. He say he has Haitian's running amok. Will report back.

---

Hog hunting again ?

---

I read that to mean he would be hunting Haitians.

GrowlTowel said:

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Canada2017 said:

---

J.R. said:

---

well, boys, I'm going down there hunting at the end of the month, so I will report back to the good sicem 365 peeps. Hunting on a friends ranch just out of Eagle Pass. He say he has Haitian's running amok. Will report back.

---

Hog hunting again ?

---

I read that to mean he would be hunting Haitians.

---

No

In the past JR has hunted wild hogs in that part of the state .

There are hundreds of people on the Mexican side of the river still waiting to be smuggled into the US on rafts. It is nonstop, this happens every single night in Roma, it has been going on for months, and this is only one tiny part of the border. Hundreds crossing here @FoxNews pic.twitter.com/o24RgpuTrh

— Bill Melugin (@BillFOXLA) October 8, 2021

The spot we are in is the same spot where cartel gunmen w/ AK 47s were taunting National Guard soldiers the other day. The soldiers tell us the gunmen were racking the slides on their weapons and were yelling in Spanish that they should shoot them. @FoxNews pic.twitter.com/CKg9Sfa2Nb

— Bill Melugin (@BillFOXLA) October 8, 2021