Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

Exactly. What I am calling "Trump-backed candidates" were those where he endorsed in the primaries against another Republican not where he just sort of passively endorsed an incumbent or the GOP front runner.

Other than J.D. Vance, every Trump-backed candidate lost. Trump is a loser. He lost the popular vote in 2016. He lost the popular vote in 2020. He lost two critical Senate seats in Georgia in 2020. He lost the Senate for Republicans in 2020. He almost cost the GOP the House. Do you guys not realize Biden is the least popular, most incompetent and corrupt president in U.S. history and Trump still stopped the predicted red wave in 2020.

Trump WAS a great president. Like it has done to others, the 2020 election fully broke him. He's completely unhinged and only cares about himself.

If we want to save our country from continued division and destruction, we need to restore some unity, sanity, and normality back into the White House and kick out the racist, corrupt regime that is clearly in bed with Russia, China, and the globalists. Trump cannot win because too many people are morons and care more about "mean tweets" than public policy. We cannot change that.

Desantis may be the best governor in a generation. He would make a great president.

To wrap up “Pride Month,” let’s hear from the politician who did more than any other Republican to celebrate it…

pic.twitter.com/FT7LdW4vls

— DeSantis War Room 🐊 (@DeSantisWarRoom) June 30, 2023

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

Issue is this sudden anti-woke obsession. He was not like that as Gov before or during pandemic. He is going way overboard!

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. %A0Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting. %A0

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. %A0Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. %A0I certainly would consider it. %A0We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. %A0 It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. %A0 %A0He hasta get better. %A0 And he may do exactly that. %A0Or he may not. %A0 %A0He does have time to do so. %A0 The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. %A0 %A0He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? %A0He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:

He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

The right is a mix of conservative, libertarian, and populist. That's not necessarily a problem if we can all work together. If a minor issue like expunction limits is enough to qualify you as a RINO, we might as well forget it.

Beyond policy stances likability counts for something.....and I just don't think DeSantis does well with that. He just comes off as angry with nothing to balance it out.

I'm no Trump fan at all....but he's got a humor about him that makes him an engaging personality. That plays well.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Issue is this sudden anti-woke obsession. He was not like that as Gov before or during pandemic. He is going way overboard!

---

Agreed. I had high hopes but they evaporated pretty quickly. I could vote for him but unlikely he will get nomination. I don't know why he couldn't run his Presidential race as he ran his Governor's race.

boognish_bear said:

---

Beyond policy stances likability counts for something.....and I just don't think DeSantis does well with that. He just comes off as angry with nothing to balance it out.

I'm no Trump fan at all....but he's got a humor about him that makes him an engaging personality. That plays well.

---

Meh. Nah. He's funny like a clown. Says buffoonish things that people nervously laugh at because they can't believe he said it.

Sadly we don't have a Reagan running this election cycle.

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

And Trump spent like a liberal.

Come on man.

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

And Trump spent like a liberal.

Come on man.

---

I'm not defending Trump bro…

I do not want Trump as POTUS. I want someone like Rand Paul.

I learned long ago we will never get the 'perfect' candidate.

So let's focus on finding and supporting one whose policies are sound and who can get elected.

Ran Paul is very often right, but he lacks the political capital to get elected.

Donald Trump put forward policies which are vital to our nation, but his negatives make him unelectable in a general election.

Christie/Pence and their lot are the ticks of the process, blood suckers who add nothing and only irritate and distract from the issues and the serious candidates.

At this time, I only see two viable GOP candidates for President in 2024: DeSantis or Scott.

FLBear5630 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

Issue is this sudden anti-woke obsession. He was not like that as Gov before or during pandemic. He is going way overboard!

---

To be fair, the woke left are going overboard these days

Mothra said:

---

boognish_bear said:

---

Beyond policy stances likability counts for something.....and I just don't think DeSantis does well with that. He just comes off as angry with nothing to balance it out.

I'm no Trump fan at all....but he's got a humor about him that makes him an engaging personality. That plays well.

---

Meh. Nah. He's funny like a clown. Says buffoonish things that people nervously laugh at because they can't believe he said it.

Sadly we don't have a Reagan running this election cycle.

---

Now that was a man that had some legit humor (or his writers did)

Oldbear83 said:

---

I learned long ago we will never get the 'perfect' candidate.

So let's focus on finding and supporting one whose policies are sound and who can get elected.

Ran Paul is very often right, but he lacks the political capital to get elected.

Donald Trump put forward policies which are vital to our nation, but his negatives make him unelectable in a general election.

Christie/Pence and their lot are the ticks of the process, blood suckers who add nothing and only irritate and distract from the issues and the serious candidates.

At this time, I only see two viable GOP candidates for President in 2024: DeSantis or Scott.

---

What the hell? No Chuck Norris?

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I learned long ago we will never get the 'perfect' candidate.

So let's focus on finding and supporting one whose policies are sound and who can get elected.

Ran Paul is very often right, but he lacks the political capital to get elected.

Donald Trump put forward policies which are vital to our nation, but his negatives make him unelectable in a general election.

Christie/Pence and their lot are the ticks of the process, blood suckers who add nothing and only irritate and distract from the issues and the serious candidates.

At this time, I only see two viable GOP candidates for President in 2024: DeSantis or Scott.

---

What the hell? No Chuck Norris?

---

I met Chuck Norris once.

He's a self-absorbed jerk, a lot like Newsom actually.

Oldbear83 said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I learned long ago we will never get the 'perfect' candidate.

So let's focus on finding and supporting one whose policies are sound and who can get elected.

Ran Paul is very often right, but he lacks the political capital to get elected.

Donald Trump put forward policies which are vital to our nation, but his negatives make him unelectable in a general election.

Christie/Pence and their lot are the ticks of the process, blood suckers who add nothing and only irritate and distract from the issues and the serious candidates.

At this time, I only see two viable GOP candidates for President in 2024: DeSantis or Scott.

---

What the hell? No Chuck Norris?

---

I met Chuck Norris once.

He's a self-absorbed jerk, a lot like Newsom actually.

---

Hate to hear that.

One of the most down to earth and genuine people I ever met was Charlie Daniels.

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Rawhide said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I learned long ago we will never get the 'perfect' candidate.

So let's focus on finding and supporting one whose policies are sound and who can get elected.

Ran Paul is very often right, but he lacks the political capital to get elected.

Donald Trump put forward policies which are vital to our nation, but his negatives make him unelectable in a general election.

Christie/Pence and their lot are the ticks of the process, blood suckers who add nothing and only irritate and distract from the issues and the serious candidates.

At this time, I only see two viable GOP candidates for President in 2024: DeSantis or Scott.

---

What the hell? No Chuck Norris?

---

I met Chuck Norris once.

He's a self-absorbed jerk, a lot like Newsom actually.

---

Hate to hear that.

One of the most down to earth and genuine people I ever met was Charlie Daniels.

---

I used to run movie theaters, long in the past. Good guy celebrities I got to meet included

Joe Piscopo

Eric Idle

Billy Gibbons

Dennis Quaid

and

Beau Bridges


Only a few bad ones. Norris as I mentioned, Randy Quaid, and the director Brian DePalma, but that's it for the bad guys.


I also got to meet OJ Simpson in 1992. Oilers were hosting a playoff game and he was in town for the broadcast and caught a movie. Very charming, seemed totally approachable and nice. Would never have believed he was capable of murdering his wife later.

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

---

Are you quite all right?

Oldbear83 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

---

Are you quite all right?

---

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

---

Are you quite all right?

---

I don't have anything else to type ... if you stupid frucks want to vote for Trump go ahead ... when you're in the gulag after that frucking ra/pist is re-elected, the most corrupt president in U.S. history, you can only blame yourselves and that loser Trump.

---

Yes, I read that. What in the world prompted that spewage?

Mothra said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

LOL. We can't give Trump credit for the wins, because the candidates are strong. Only the losses where the candidates were weak. That is a stronger foundation for the argument that Trump doesn't matter - the good candidates don't need him and he can't help the bad ones.

Facts are facts. For most of the "losses" cited, there was a surprisingly good result somewhere else, as I noted. So I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the record does not support the conclusion.

whiterock said:

---

Mothra said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

---

Quote:

---

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

LOL. We can't give Trump credit for the wins, because the candidates are strong. Only the losses where the candidates were weak. That is a stronger foundation for the argument that Trump doesn't matter - the good candidates don't need him and he can't help the bad ones.

Facts are facts. For most of the "losses" cited, there was a surprisingly good result somewhere else, as I noted. So I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the record does not support the conclusion.

---

You guys are trying to make Trump into something he isn't. He is not a uniter or concerned with setting up a system that works

He is interested in him personally winning, collecting favors and feality. He is trying to assemble an organization out of a Mario Puzo novel than a government that can function!

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."

---

History is not your strong suit. DeSantis was lagging in the pack in a very large primary field in his FIRST campaign for governor. Trump's endorsement rocketed his campaign to the nomination, and he went on to win the General election in what was at the time a very purple state.

If you were to propose that Trump is a positive in some parts of the country and a negative in others, or that he has had some major hits as well as some major misses, I would agree with you. But, in fact, he has his fingerprints on most of the party. He endorsed Kemp in the primary. He even endorsed Youngkin in the general. Ever heard of Youngkin? Did the Trump endorsement doom him? I seem to remember that Youngkin won in a +9 blue state despite a Trump endorsement. Was Trump a drag in 2020? Yeah, on balance mostly so. But Kryptonite? That some pretty weak kryptonite, as far as kryptonite goes.

Geez, guys. Pointing out uncontestable facts (that you try to obscure) is now derided as shilling for Trump?

Mothra said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

Except DeSantis hasn't shown any penchant whatsoever for doing so in his time as governor of Florida. Don't buy the Trump propaganda. It's total bull*****

---

Agreed. It is understandable that primary voters would look at RDS donor & endorsee lists and have some unease, but his positions and actions are beyond question. He does not flinch on the social issues and has not just a strong but a very uniform record of seeking combat with the left and winning. Good strategy, good tactics. Would sleep like a baby with him as nominee or POTUS.

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

sombear said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

whiterock said:

---

RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."

---

History is not your strong suit. DeSantis was lagging in the pack in a very large primary field in his FIRST campaign for governor. Trump's endorsement rocketed his campaign to the nomination, and he went on to win the General election in what was at the time a very purple state.

If you were to propose that Trump is a positive in some parts of the country and a negative in others, or that he has had some major hits as well as some major misses, I would agree with you. But, in fact, he has his fingerprints on most of the party. He endorsed Kemp in the primary. He even endorsed Youngkin in the general. Ever heard of Youngkin? Did the Trump endorsement doom him? I seem to remember that Youngkin won in a +9 blue state despite a Trump endorsement. Was Trump a drag in 2020? Yeah, on balance mostly so. But Kryptonite? That some pretty weak kryptonite, as far as kryptonite goes.

Geez, guys. Pointing out uncontestable facts (that you try to obscure) is now derided as shilling for Trump?

---

I wasn't commenting on any of that. RDS' first campaign for governor was in 2018, before Trump jumped the shark. You and HB were talking about 2022; calling RDS a "Trump candidate" in that context is misleading at best.

FLBear5630 said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

Issue is this sudden anti-woke obsession. He was not like that as Gov before or during pandemic. He is going way overboard!

---

I think you are badly mis-assessing the mood of the country. Anti-wokeness is likely to be a central theme in 2024. Ordinary people are sick of it.

It may not seem important to you.....yet. Give it time......

Doc Holliday said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

As I have said many times......when you get to the right pole in the Republican Party, you will find no skinhead troglodyte types. You will find no Nelson Rockefellers. You will find Ron Paul. Libertarianism is the spiritual center of the party. All the policy crazies (abortion nuts, gun nuts, etc.....) are just coalition members. What binds it all together are First Principles - limited government, respect for the Constitution, fiscal responsibility.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

LOL. We can't give Trump credit for the wins, because the candidates are strong. Only the losses where the candidates were weak. That is a stronger foundation for the argument that Trump doesn't matter - the good candidates don't need him and he can't help the bad ones.

Facts are facts. For most of the "losses" cited, there was a surprisingly good result somewhere else, as I noted. So I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the record does not support the conclusion.

---

You guys are trying to make Trump into something he isn't. He is not a uniter or concerned with setting up a system that works

He is interested in him personally winning, collecting favors and feality. He is trying to assemble an organization out of a Mario Puzo novel than a government that can function!

---

Dems are not interested in uniting, either.

Unity happens when the time is right. Now is not that time.

whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

As I have said many times......when you get to the right pole in the Republican Party, you will find no skinhead troglodyte types. You will find no Nelson Rockefellers. You will find Ron Paul. Libertarianism is the spiritual center of the party.

---

Well, which is it...the right pole or the spiritual center?

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."

---

History is not your strong suit. DeSantis was lagging in the pack in a very large primary field in his FIRST campaign for governor. Trump's endorsement rocketed his campaign to the nomination, and he went on to win the General election in what was at the time a very purple state.

If you were to propose that Trump is a positive in some parts of the country and a negative in others, or that he has had some major hits as well as some major misses, I would agree with you. But, in fact, he has his fingerprints on most of the party. He endorsed Kemp in the primary. He even endorsed Youngkin in the general. Ever heard of Youngkin? Did the Trump endorsement doom him? I seem to remember that Youngkin won in a +9 blue state despite a Trump endorsement. Was Trump a drag in 2020? Yeah, on balance mostly so. But Kryptonite? That some pretty weak kryptonite, as far as kryptonite goes.

Geez, guys. Pointing out uncontestable facts (that you try to obscure) is now derided as shilling for Trump?

---

I wasn't commenting on any of that. RDS' first campaign for governor was in 2018, before Trump jumped the shark. You and HB were talking about 2022; calling RDS a "Trump candidate" in that context is misleading at best.

---

Putnam self destructed. Trump jumped in after Outman had two huge missteps.

1-he declared that he was a "proud NRA sellout". Which came under attack after the Parkland school shootings.

2- He was AG Commissioner in charge of conceal and carry licenses. Investigations showed that many applications for concealed weapons permits were never vetted. After Parkland.

He was done and then Trump jumped in and took credit. The liberal political analyst proclaimed it that the GOP has sold out to Trump. There is a lot more there than Trump won DeSantis the Gov.

whiterock said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

LOL. We can't give Trump credit for the wins, because the candidates are strong. Only the losses where the candidates were weak. That is a stronger foundation for the argument that Trump doesn't matter - the good candidates don't need him and he can't help the bad ones.

Facts are facts. For most of the "losses" cited, there was a surprisingly good result somewhere else, as I noted. So I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the record does not support the conclusion.

---

You guys are trying to make Trump into something he isn't. He is not a uniter or concerned with setting up a system that works

He is interested in him personally winning, collecting favors and feality. He is trying to assemble an organization out of a Mario Puzo novel than a government that can function!

---

Dems are not interested in uniting, either.

Unity happens when the time is right. Now is not that time.

---

Trump will mobilize EVERY Dem to vote to keep him out. He will only mobilize the MAGA crowd and have suburbs, educated women and moderates considering not voting top of ticket

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

whiterock said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Doc Holliday said:

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sombear said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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whiterock said:

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RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"

Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x

— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023

---

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.

---

RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.

---

He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

---

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.

---

I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."

---

History is not your strong suit. DeSantis was lagging in the pack in a very large primary field in his FIRST campaign for governor. Trump's endorsement rocketed his campaign to the nomination, and he went on to win the General election in what was at the time a very purple state.

If you were to propose that Trump is a positive in some parts of the country and a negative in others, or that he has had some major hits as well as some major misses, I would agree with you. But, in fact, he has his fingerprints on most of the party. He endorsed Kemp in the primary. He even endorsed Youngkin in the general. Ever heard of Youngkin? Did the Trump endorsement doom him? I seem to remember that Youngkin won in a +9 blue state despite a Trump endorsement. Was Trump a drag in 2020? Yeah, on balance mostly so. But Kryptonite? That some pretty weak kryptonite, as far as kryptonite goes.

Geez, guys. Pointing out uncontestable facts (that you try to obscure) is now derided as shilling for Trump?

---

I wasn't commenting on any of that. RDS' first campaign for governor was in 2018, before Trump jumped the shark. You and HB were talking about 2022; calling RDS a "Trump candidate" in that context is misleading at best.

---

LOL. before Trump was Trump. I got a chuckle over that one. Like...."hey guys, remember that time when everyone liked Trump?"

RDS was most assuredly a Trump candidate when he won the Governorship of a very purple FL, during the heat of the neverTrumper madness over Russia collusion and special counsel investigations & such....in one of those elections cited as evidence for the meme Trump as a loser, drag on the party, terrible candidate selection, etc....

Look. there are plenty of valid ways to critique Trump. But facts are facts. There some very glaring discordant refutations of the "loser Trump" narrative. If you want to use that phrase because HE lost in 2020? spot on. But when you try to stretch out to both horizons, don't be surprised when branches start poking holes in the fabric.

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Doc Holliday said:

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Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache

---

Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.

---

What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.

---

So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.

---

I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.

---

I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.

---

He just vetoed HB605. Full RINO move:


He's down 30 points in the presidential race for a reason. Way too polished and by the book.

This highlights the real problem. The right is actually libertarian and populist, they're not hyper conservative.

---

As I have said many times......when you get to the right pole in the Republican Party, you will find no skinhead troglodyte types. You will find no Nelson Rockefellers. You will find Ron Paul. Libertarianism is the spiritual center of the party.

---

Well, which is it...the right pole or the spiritual center?

---

mixing metaphors, huh.

it is the right pole in the GOP, to which the various factions of the party are tethered, the idea of limited government as an ideal

If you stretched a cable between Ron Paul (right pole) and Bernie Sanders (left pole), a very high percentage of our political spectrum would connect to it somewhere along the line. American politics is a tug of war between collectivism on one end and individualism on the other.

whiterock said:

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Mothra said:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.

---

1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.

---

That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......

---

This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018

---

The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.

---

Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.

---

LOL. We can't give Trump credit for the wins, because the candidates are strong. Only the losses where the candidates were weak. That is a stronger foundation for the argument that Trump doesn't matter - the good candidates don't need him and he can't help the bad ones.

Facts are facts. For most of the "losses" cited, there was a surprisingly good result somewhere else, as I noted. So I'm not defending anything. Just pointing out the record does not support the conclusion.

---

There's a massive difference between Trump-endorsed candidates (many of which he endorses after his preferred candidate is getting trounced or late in general) and Trump candidates. The fact is, he has a very poor record in general election key races with candidates that were truly Trumpian.