Trump vs Desantis

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FLBear5630
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In reply to Harrison Bergeron • 1:46a, 6/28/23
Harrison Bergeron said:
muddybrazos said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
It's hard to win a rigged election.
Okay. Let's grant your correct. What specifically is Trump's plan to ensure the 2024 election is not rigged?


Yet, no proof. Convenient any time he loses its someone else's fault. It will be same in 2024, he will lose big to Biden and scream rigged.
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whiterock
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In reply to sombear • 6:09a, 6/28/23
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.
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whiterock
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 6:10a, 6/28/23
FLBear5630 said:


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RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
It's hard to win a rigged election.
Okay. Let's grant your correct. What specifically is Trump's plan to ensure the 2024 election is not rigged?


Yet, no proof. Convenient any time he loses its someone else's fault. It will be same in 2024, he will lose big to Biden and scream rigged.

Screaming rigged is good politics. Dems do it all the time and make hay.
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whiterock
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In reply to Harrison Bergeron • 6:14a, 6/28/23
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......
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muddybrazos
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In reply to Harrison Bergeron • 7:27a, 6/28/23
Harrison Bergeron said:
muddybrazos said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
It's hard to win a rigged election.
Okay. Let's grant your correct. What specifically is Trump's plan to ensure the 2024 election is not rigged?
I'm not sure what Trumps plan is to win the next rigged election. Idk what Rons plan is either bc i'm sure the dems will use their strategy against whoever is the nominee. I guess there are some silver linings this time around bc the Hunter latptop that was covered up by the press and intel agencies cant happen this time and Twitter is no longer controlled by leftists this time. Google, facebook and the msm are still controlled and will do their best to coverup whatever they see as damaging to the dems.
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sombear
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In reply to whiterock • 7:44a, 6/28/23
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.
Agree with all of this with two exceptions. One, there will be no Trump/RDS ticket. Two, I believe the poll you reference with Trump doing well with Indies was his internal poll. I definitely could have missed one, but polls consistently show trouble for Trump with Indies and in the battlegrounds.
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sombear
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In reply to whiterock • 7:51a, 6/28/23
whiterock said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......
This is disingenuous. Trump bad-mouthed both throughout their campaigns, even hinting he might vote for Crist and Abrams. He endorsed RDS only at the very end, and I'm not sure he ever endorsed Kemp. And since then, he has argued at rallies that Kemp only won the primary against Perdue (Trump's candidate) because he rigged it.
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boognish_bear
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9:06a, 6/28/23
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FLBear5630
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In reply to boognish_bear • 9:11a, 6/28/23
boognish_bear said:


So now Fox is against Trump? Don't tell me, terrible people...
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Osodecentx
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:26a, 6/28/23
FLBear5630 said:
boognish_bear said:


So now Fox is against Trump? Don't tell me, terrible people...


Horrible people
Probably the worst people in history. HUGELY HORRIBLE, believe me
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Sam Lowry
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In reply to whiterock • 10:10a, 6/28/23
whiterock said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......
Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."
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Doc Holliday
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In reply to Sam Lowry • 10:13a, 6/28/23
Sam Lowry said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.
So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.
I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.
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RD2WINAGNBEAR86
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In reply to boognish_bear • 11:09a, 6/28/23
boognish_bear said:
So Trump is worried about the quality of pictures taken of him by Fox News? Did they catch him in a moment without makeup? What a frickin' Drama Queen! This just goes to show we need to put an adult in the Oval Office. Biden and Trump need to move on.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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whiterock
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In reply to sombear • 1:43p, 6/28/23
sombear said:
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.
Agree with all of this with two exceptions. One, there will be no Trump/RDS ticket. Two, I believe the poll you reference with Trump doing well with Indies was his internal poll. I definitely could have missed one, but polls consistently show trouble for Trump with Indies and in the battlegrounds.

Saw this just now.
Expect more like this as we move forward.
Biden is not likely to carry indies.

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Thee University
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2:07p, 6/28/23
Trump is the whiniest titty baby ever. His juvenile insults to anyone he deems a threat or has the potential to make him look worse than he already has made himself look, are comical. Trump is a loser deluxe and I can never vote for him again. I would much rather have DeSantis running our country than this egomaniacal idiot who can't bring himself to say "WE accomplished this" or "WE accomplished that" instead of "I did this" or "I did that".

Is Trump nothing more than a mirror of how our country looks and acts today? Is this the reason so many Trump Zombies are supporting him. Are we that far gone?

It is a long way to the election and Trump will continue to throw out 7th grade insults to grown men and women. I think he is intimidated by DeSantis. I know he is afraid of Ramaswamy.

Trump's running mate IF he is the nominee? He'll pick the Arizona bimbo Kari Lake or somebody like her. A true smoke & mirrors team is what the RINOs will field.

The Republican Party of Ronald Reagan is dead.
"The education of a man is never completed until he dies." - General Robert E. Lee
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2:35p, 6/28/23
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In reply to Thee University • 2:49p, 6/28/23
Thee University said:
Trump is a loser deluxe and I can never vote for him again.

The Republican Party of Ronald Reagan is dead.
I too, am in the DeSantis corner. The only thing worse than returning Trump to the Oval Office is returning the brain dead vegetable that does not know his own birthday or what day it is. Biden is an absolute perfect reflection of his supporters. Like minded. As is John Fetterman.
"Never underestimate Joe's ability to **** things up!"

-- Barack Obama
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3:15p, 6/30/23
In either this thread or the 2024 thread, I predicted this:

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In reply to whiterock • 3:20p, 6/30/23
whiterock said:
In either this thread or the 2024 thread, I predicted this:

They're both losers and couldn't convince a majority to win election.
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In reply to whiterock • 3:40p, 6/30/23
whiterock said:
In either this thread or the 2024 thread, I predicted this:

And you might be right, but I'm hearing different from RDS campaign contacts.

I would understand if RDS followed Trump's lead in skipping. If Trump skips, RDS is in an impossible position. On one hand, he loses an opportunity by skipping, but on the other, if he participates, every other candidate will go after him, as their goal will be simply to knock off #2. There's a lot of history on this. It is exceedingly difficult to take on everyone. Most of the other candidates are afraid to attack Trump too harshly, but they will pull out the knives and every other weapon for RDS.

I think skipping is a net negative for Trump, but a much worse position either way for RDS.
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In reply to sombear • 3:51p, 6/30/23
sombear said:
whiterock said:
In either this thread or the 2024 thread, I predicted this:

And you might be right, but I'm hearing different from RDS campaign contacts.

I would understand if RDS followed Trump's lead in skipping. If Trump skips, RDS is in an impossible position. On one hand, he loses an opportunity by skipping, but on the other, if he participates, every other candidate will go after him, as their goal will be simply to knock off #2. There's a lot of history on this. It is exceedingly difficult to take on everyone. Most of the other candidates are afraid to attack Trump too harshly, but they will pull out the knives and every other weapon for RDS.

I think skipping is a net negative for Trump, but a much worse position either way for RDS.
I suspect the RDS campaign assesses it would be premature to commit on the issue so far in advance. If they say "no" then Trump decides to participate, they've dug themselves an unnecessary dilemma = if they change their minds and go, they look like they're following Trump; if they stand firm and stay away, they let Trump mop up the room and possibly open up an even wider gap. Further, they will not want to be see as a party saboteur....sucking off the most popular two candidates will negatively affect ratings of the debate, which is a big event for the party. That of course will be the effect if neither of the top two attend, regardless of who what when where why etc...., but don't harm the party further by sucking off all the oxygen for the promotional build up. let the decision be big news at the threshold - creates drama for both the party and the campaign.

Would be very surprised to see RDS on the stage if Trump is not.
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In reply to whiterock • 1:22a, 7/1/23
whiterock said:
In either this thread or the 2024 thread, I predicted this:



Meanwhile, Christie and Halley are talking about real issues, tough issues. While these two play, prima dona's a Christie/Haley or Haley/Christie ticket is looking better.
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In reply to whiterock • 6:16a, 7/1/23
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.


No way Trump wins the popular vote. He won't even win the electoral college. You guys are buying into fools gold. Yes Trump's polling numbers have improved because some conservatives have been galvanized by his political prosecutions. But it's driving away the independents he needs to win this election. And I suspect as more comes out about what he did in GA his support will start to crumble. Too many self-inflicted wounds to win an election IMO.

I don't doubt that he wins the nom. Too many sycophants out there that will vote for him. But general election? Not a chance. Watch and see.
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Mothra
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In reply to whiterock • 6:19a, 7/1/23
whiterock said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......


This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018
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In reply to Mothra • 6:21a, 7/1/23
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.


No way Trump wins the popular vote. He won't even win the electoral college. You guys are buying into fools gold. Yes Trump's polling numbers have improved because some conservatives have been galvanized by his political prosecutions. But it's driving away the independents he needs to win this election. And I suspect as more comes out about what he did in GA his support will start to crumble. Too many self-inflicted wounds to win an election IMO.

I don't doubt that he wins the nom. Too many sycophants out there that will vote for him. But general election? Not a chance. Watch and see.
I suspect trends are going to force you to change your assessment.
Give it some time.
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Mothra
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 6:22a, 7/1/23
Doc Holliday said:
Sam Lowry said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.
So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.
I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.


Except DeSantis hasn't shown any penchant whatsoever for doing so in his time as governor of Florida. Don't buy the Trump propaganda. It's total bull*****
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Mothra
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In reply to whiterock • 6:22a, 7/1/23
whiterock said:
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.


No way Trump wins the popular vote. He won't even win the electoral college. You guys are buying into fools gold. Yes Trump's polling numbers have improved because some conservatives have been galvanized by his political prosecutions. But it's driving away the independents he needs to win this election. And I suspect as more comes out about what he did in GA his support will start to crumble. Too many self-inflicted wounds to win an election IMO.

I don't doubt that he wins the nom. Too many sycophants out there that will vote for him. But general election? Not a chance. Watch and see.
I suspect trends are going to force you to change your assessment.
Give it some time.


And I suspect you're going to be wrong just like you were in 2020, and then again in 2022. Give it some time.

Trump is a retread and a loser who hasn't won anything since 2016.
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whiterock
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In reply to Mothra • 6:23a, 7/1/23
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......


This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018
The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.
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Mothra
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In reply to whiterock • 6:26a, 7/1/23
whiterock said:
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.

RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......


This isn't 2018 my friend. Trump's been on a losing streak since his election. I understand hoping for the best but let's not put our heads in the sand. Trump and trump backed candidates haven't won much since 2018
The results are quite a bit more mixed than this argument allows.


Not really. The "Trump" candidates who have won since 2016 were strong on their own accord, and as others have pointed out, were begrudgingly endorsed by Trump (see Youngkin and DeSantis). I wouldn't really call DeSantis or Youngkin Trump candidates anyway. The ones who went fullbore Trump lost. See Kari Lake.

I understand the need to spin this in trumps favor, but I think you realize he's pretty much been kryptonite since 2018.
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4th and Inches
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In reply to Harrison Bergeron • 7:22a, 7/1/23
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed tightly contested candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
fixed it
“Mix a little foolishness with your serious plans. It is lovely to be silly at the right moment.”

–Horace


“Insomnia sharpens your math skills because you spend all night calculating how much sleep you’ll get if you’re able to ‘fall asleep right now.’ “
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Mothra • 7:31a, 7/1/23
Mothra said:
whiterock said:
sombear said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
I don't think he's struggled at all. His fundraising has been solid. He remains a clear #2 in the primary, and virtually every poll continues to show him performing better against Biden, particularly among independents and in swing states.

And, yes, Trump's broadsides (mostly lies) against him have hurt, but the primary reason Trump remains so far ahead is very simple. The lawsuits and criminal charges have galvanized his supporters like nothing else could do.

If RDS was struggling, he'd be losing ground to Haley, Scott, Pence, etc., but he's not. It's all about Trump right now. Unfortunately, I think it is unlikely anyone will catch Trump in the primary, but it's not because anyone else is struggling.
Valid points. It's really about expectations, then & now. Six months ago, Trump was struggling after getting a ton of incoming over the results of the mid-terms. He turned that around bigly, at least in part because DeSantis was in an awkward position of being identified as the strongest opponent while not being actually able to campaign in earnest. The main "struggle" (not to belabor definitions) for RDS is that he hasn't been able to fundamentally change the dynamics after entering the race....not really eating in to Trump's lead nationally much at all, and a mixed outcome state-by-state. Yes, he's pulled even in FL but he's lost ground in NH, etc.... Not an easy jump from state to national......

RD2 made some points I've made before, chiefly that RDS is now getting shellacked from Dems as well as Trump. So as i predicted, his favorables will sag as his name ID climbs. Saw a clip of MSM yesterday where RDS was identified as a greater Hitler (or something similar, can't recall exactly) than Trump. typical and will get worse.

Against that, Trump is improving his numbers with independents IN SOME POLLS enough and is now slightly ahead of Biden. I think that begs a lot of questions about polling universes, because other polls are pretty static showing RDS with a clear advantage.

regardless what happens on the GOP side, Biden and Dems will see their positions deteriorate over time. GOP could contend for a popular vote victory if winds don't change to Dems favor on something. While it may be true RDS will run stronger with indies, Trump may (and I suspect will) run strong enough with them.

I continue to think we will see a Trump/RDS ticket, although RDS has some work to do to seal the deal.


No way Trump wins the popular vote. He won't even win the electoral college. You guys are buying into fools gold. Yes Trump's polling numbers have improved because some conservatives have been galvanized by his political prosecutions. But it's driving away the independents he needs to win this election. And I suspect as more comes out about what he did in GA his support will start to crumble. Too many self-inflicted wounds to win an election IMO.

I don't doubt that he wins the nom. Too many sycophants out there that will vote for him. But general election? Not a chance. Watch and see.


Their is no way in hell Trump wins popular vote! Hillary won the popular vote against him when he still had some of his liability from TV! Now, he is pure hate and vicious, no way he wins popular vote even in Primary.
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Harrison Bergeron
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In reply to Doc Holliday • 1:07p, 7/1/23
Doc Holliday said:
Sam Lowry said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
Harrison Bergeron said:
Doc Holliday said:
sombear said:
Doc Holliday said:
whiterock said:
RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:
Doc Holliday said:

The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.

The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.

Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.

The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.

I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.

What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.
I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.

Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.
What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.

"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.

This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.

Trump is a loser.
Agreed, we don't need Trump.

Desantis is smart and he wields his power to crush the left, but he's got to bring up his polling and appeal to a massive audience or he's not gonna make it.
So you like DeSantis, but you'd choose RFK because DeSantis isn't emotional enough? I don't get it.
I don't prefer either. There's not a single candidate running that's actually good.

I think Desantis will do the bidding of RINOs as he's already established himself with a RINO controlled campaign.

RFK is very anti establishment, more so than Desantis is claiming to be.
I genuinely do not understand this sentiment. Honestly. Desantis is by far the most conservative candidate in the race, and he has governed Florida very conservatively. Nothing about him screams RINO. I genuinely don't understand this sentiment, especially when Trump is more of a Bill Clinton Democrat than a conservative.

I guess it is just the anti-intellectual and general stupidity of our nation and the media, but Trump is much closer to a traditional Democrat than a Republican. All of his policies around crime, trade, and immigration were mainstream Democrat positions before the extremists took over during Obama's terms.
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