Why can't young people afford houses?

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Redbrickbear
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3:22p, 11/2/23
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Frank Galvin
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3:33p, 11/2/23
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.
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Forest Bueller_bf
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 4:49p, 11/2/23
Redbrickbear said:
Yea, historically high home values plus increasing interest rates and in Texas at least high property tax amounts, price most young adults out of the market.

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Redbrickbear
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 5:41p, 11/2/23
Frank Galvin said:
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.


You assume that modern America operates like a true free market system.

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KaiBear
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In reply to Forest Bueller_bf • 5:47p, 11/2/23
Forest Bueller_bf said:
Redbrickbear said:
Yea, historically high home values plus increasing interest rates and in Texas at least high property tax amounts, price most young adults out of the market.

All true.

Another factor is the difficulty young people have saving up enough cash for the down payment and closing costs.

If they have student loans and credit card debt it is almost impossible to buy a house unless their family helps them out.

And most families can't or don't help them out.
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Wangchung
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5:49p, 11/2/23
The massive influx of illegals taking up all cheap property does not help.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

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KaiBear
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In reply to Wangchung • 5:54p, 11/2/23
Wangchung said:
The massive influx of illegals taking up all cheap property does not help.
Illegals can't aquire mortgage loans.


So unless they have some substantial cash in their travel bags.....it ain't happening.
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Wangchung
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In reply to KaiBear • 6:09p, 11/2/23
KaiBear said:
Wangchung said:
The massive influx of illegals taking up all cheap property does not help.
Illegals can't aquire mortgage loans.


So unless they have some substantial cash in their travel bags.....it ain't happening.
They fill rentals of all types and then some.
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

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Wangchung
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6:10p, 11/2/23
Top of the search results.
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/politics/fact-check-immigration-increase-housing-costs
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

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FLBear5630
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 6:29p, 11/2/23
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"
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Harrison Bergeron
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6:51p, 11/2/23
Bidenomics.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:22p, 11/2/23
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:43p, 11/2/23
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.
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Redbrickbear
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 7:44p, 11/2/23
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.


But in a true free market would "suppliers" not rise up to build more housing to meet that demand and keep prices reasonable?
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:53p, 11/2/23
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.


But in a true free market would "suppliers" not rise up to build more housing to meet that demand and keep prices reasonable?


Theoretically. There is more to it than building a house.
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Wangchung
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 7:55p, 11/2/23
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.


But in a true free market would "suppliers" not rise up to build more housing to meet that demand and keep prices reasonable?
"Immigration does indeed strain housing markets, multiple studies have found.

The pandemic compounded that pressure by slowing construction on new homes and disrupting the supply chains that builders use to obtain materials.

It's an issue Vance has addressed previously in his young Senate career.

"If you think about what it means to have 20 [million] or 25 million undocumented, illegal immigrants in a country, in a situation where we're not building enough housing, that puts incredible pressure you have way more buyers for way fewer homes," Vance said in February during a Senate Banking Committee hearing.

The slowdown in residential construction has crunched the housing supply at a time when a record number of asylum-seekers are pouring over the border.

With a shortage of houses on the market and a growing number of people opting to stay put in homes they financed at far lower interest rates, the cost of existing houses has climbed dramatically."
Our vibrations were getting nasty. But why? I was puzzled, frustrated... Had we deteriorated to the level of dumb beasts?

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GrowlTowel
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9:22p, 11/2/23
Most don't want to own.
Your ideas are intriguing to me, and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.
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muddybrazos
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 9:17a, 11/3/23
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market
My starter was in Lake Highlands, Dallas and i bought it in 2007 for 150k. 1300 sq feet and I got a 0 down with a first and second mortgage. Sold it in 2017 for 329,900$. Greatest investment I ever made thus far.

Current house here in Mount Pleasant, SC is now at about double what i paid for it on the estimated value.
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Forest Bueller_bf
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In reply to KaiBear • 9:32a, 11/3/23
KaiBear said:
Forest Bueller_bf said:
Redbrickbear said:
Yea, historically high home values plus increasing interest rates and in Texas at least high property tax amounts, price most young adults out of the market.

All true.

Another factor is the difficulty young people have saving up enough cash for the down payment and closing costs.

If they have student loans and credit card debt it is almost impossible to buy a house unless their family helps them out.

And most families can't or don't help them out.
Double whammy exactly right.

70% of familes are basically paycheck to paycheck. So the tradition of helping your kid with the downpayment on a home has been replaced with just getting by in the majority of American Household.

Good points.
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BearFan33
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:32a, 11/3/23
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.
I had read that investment companies (with interest free loan money from the govt) were going into markets and snatching up everything they could, often times paying above asking price. This is artificially driving up prices in some markets. I guess once the home prices go up enough, they plan to dump the homes.
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Forest Bueller_bf
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 9:38a, 11/3/23
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market
Yep, my current "starter home" purchased at 63K in the 1990's is Zillowing today for $303,800.

In 2017-18 it Zillowed for about 175K.

That is really hurting with property taxes and the combo of high interest rates and exploding home valuations, is pricing way too many out of the home market.
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Guy Noir
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9:48a, 11/3/23
I moved to North Dallas area in 1980. Interest rates were 15%+. We had to wait a couple of years to buy a house after the rates dropped a bit. The return on cd's was really good then, so we took advantage of that, to grow our down payment.

In 2023 the American dream is not lost, but getting a house might be deferred for a while. The high rent issue is a real problem today.
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Mothra
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 9:56a, 11/3/23
Frank Galvin said:
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.
I've read that the problem is, companies like Blackrock and other big corporations are buying up residential property like crazy, and then renting them out. Big business has discovered that investing in residential property is good for business.

Here in Austin, which is or at least was the fastest appreciating city in America, I have had 3 investors approach me about purchasing my house in the last couple of years. When we bought the home 8 years ago, it was a solid middle class home, production build, in a middle class neighborhood, and a bit of a fixer-upper. I could sell it today for more than 3 times what we paid for it.

That's insane.
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Mothra
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:59a, 11/3/23
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"
But still very much a starter home. Reminds me of my first house.
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Mothra
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In reply to BearFan33 • 10:02a, 11/3/23
BearFan33 said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.
I had read that investment companies (with interest free loan money from the govt) were going into markets and snatching up everything they could, often times paying above asking price. This is artificially driving up prices in some markets. I guess once the home prices go up enough, they plan to dump the homes.
This. This is huge reason for the problem.
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pilgrim
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In reply to Forest Bueller_bf • 10:40a, 11/3/23
Forest Bueller_bf said:
KaiBear said:
Forest Bueller_bf said:
Redbrickbear said:
Yea, historically high home values plus increasing interest rates and in Texas at least high property tax amounts, price most young adults out of the market.

All true.

Another factor is the difficulty young people have saving up enough cash for the down payment and closing costs.

If they have student loans and credit card debt it is almost impossible to buy a house unless their family helps them out.

And most families can't or don't help them out.
Double whammy exactly right.

70% of familes are basically paycheck to paycheck. So the tradition of helping your kid with the downpayment on a home has been replaced with just getting by in the majority of American Household.

Good points.
These thoughts express the realities of most young adults, including college grads. Those asking such questions don't know what life is really like for most people 50 and under. Most parents who are retiring have not prepared and cannot help with down payments. Two of my children and spouses have good salaries and were finally able to purchase homes. The youngest and many friends may never own a home. Huge factors: student loan debt, cost of living increases, increase in real estate taxes, no help from parents...
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whiterock
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In reply to Frank Galvin • 10:46a, 11/3/23
Frank Galvin said:
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.

Free markets would. But when govt massively interdicts market functions wuth irrational "nudging" such as politically driven subsidies, regulations, and outright fiat price fixing, markets do not work efficiently. Distortions occur, as we see with real estate prices relative to entry level wages.
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Mitch Blood Green
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11:21a, 11/3/23
Once I got one of these, I cut back on mistresses and helping their families with the down payment. I'm no longer a sugar. Now I'm a salt and vinegar.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/p-AAAOSw5NpeA07M/s-l1200.webp
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FLBear5630
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In reply to Mothra • 12:23p, 11/3/23
Mothra said:
BearFan33 said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:
FLBear5630 said:
Redbrickbear said:


That is a nice "starter"


My starter home with my wife after living in an apartment and 1 nearly falling down rent house was actually a little bigger than that (1900sq) and it was in Texas.

And we got it for like $162k and that was 2014-15

We had saved about $26k and her parents just gave us the other 6k we need for a down payment.

Just looked that house up today…it's on Zillow estimated at $318,900

Something is going on in this country and it's not the free market


Live in Florida. It is supply and demand. We have 1200 people moving to Florida a day. 150 a day to Tampa. There is not enough supply. Add on top investment companies, flippers and rentals/airbnbs that doesn't help.
I had read that investment companies (with interest free loan money from the govt) were going into markets and snatching up everything they could, often times paying above asking price. This is artificially driving up prices in some markets. I guess once the home prices go up enough, they plan to dump the homes.
This. This is huge reason for the problem.
They are destroying the fabric of the Amercian neighborhood. They are turning them into Airbnbs, short term rentals and flipping. Many HOAs and Local Governments are trying to stop it, but developer lobbies are powerful.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to whiterock • 12:24p, 11/3/23
whiterock said:
Frank Galvin said:
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.

Free markets would. But when govt massively interdicts market functions wuth irrational "nudging" such as politically driven subsidies, regulations, and outright fiat price fixing, markets do not work efficiently. Distortions occur, as we see with real estate prices relative to entry level wages.
Are you also against zoning, land use and HOAs?
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Golem
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12:50p, 11/3/23
https://businessandfinances.com/2023/09/investment-giants-buying-americas-homes-blackrock-vanguard-state-street/?expand_article=1

This may be affecting costs. If it's the case these massive investment houses are mass purchasing, their additional demand would drive up prices (at least in the near term). Not sure how big an impact, but certainly a possible driver.
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ScottS
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12:58p, 11/3/23
Salaries are higher than they were years ago.
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Fre3dombear
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In reply to Redbrickbear • 3:17p, 11/3/23
Redbrickbear said:


Elections have consequences

It's been quite amazing to see.
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Forest Bueller_bf
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In reply to Mothra • 3:27p, 11/3/23
Mothra said:
Frank Galvin said:
The market "should" fix that. If no one can afford those homes, their price will decrease.
I've read that the problem is, companies like Blackrock and other big corporations are buying up residential property like crazy, and then renting them out. Big business has discovered that investing in residential property is good for business.

Here in Austin, which is or at least was the fastest appreciating city in America, I have had 3 investors approach me about purchasing my house in the last couple of years. When we bought the home 8 years ago, it was a solid middle class home, production build, in a middle class neighborhood, and a bit of a fixer-upper. I could sell it today for more than 3 times what we paid for it.

That's insane.
Wow, but lucky for you.

Except for the property tax increases.
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Redbrickbear
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5:25p, 11/3/23
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