Why can't young people afford houses?

26,949 Views | 326 Replies | Last: 8 hrs ago by boognish_bear
Redbrickbear
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nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Hopefully to start a family

(We need them)

My wife and I lived with our kid in an apartment for a few years. You can have a family in an apartment just fine.

You can...but most don't

There is a whole thread on X about how apartment living lowers family formation and child raising...

Basically if you want people getting married and having kids....they need to be in homes

[Research suggests that women who live in apartments have lower fertility rates than women who live in single-family houses. For example, a study found that women who live in studio, 1-, or 2-bedroom apartments have lower fertility rates than women who live in 1- or 2-bedroom single-family houses. Another study found that couples in apartments have a lower risk of first conception than family houses]

Causation vs correlation. Are they lower fertility because they live in an apartment or is that a matter of socioeconomic reality?

I will try and find the thread

But from what I remember if compared places with High income but apartment living (South Korea) with places in the USA that had lower income but more single homes (Alabama) and found higher fertility rates.

People don't seem to do well in apartments or higher density housing
FLBear5630
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muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
muddybrazos
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FLBear5630 said:

muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
I've already decided i'm going to buy an older (late 90s or early 00s) silverado or sierra and drop a cts-v or z06 lt4 in there with a cam. Everyone needs a 650hp truck. My neighbors will love me when i start it up in the AM.
FLBear5630
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muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
I've already decided i'm going to buy an older (late 90s or early 00s) silverado or sierra and drop a cts-v or z06 lt4 in there with a cam. Everyone needs a 650hp truck. My neighbors will love me when i start it up in the AM.
As long as it gets the boat out of the hole, that is all I need. My little V6 3.3 liter is enough for my 21' boat. Gets 20 mpg and has a huge crew cab. Good enough for me unless I get a windfall and the boat has to grow to 28'...
nein51
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Redbrickbear said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Hopefully to start a family

(We need them)

My wife and I lived with our kid in an apartment for a few years. You can have a family in an apartment just fine.

You can...but most don't

There is a whole thread on X about how apartment living lowers family formation and child raising...

Basically if you want people getting married and having kids....they need to be in homes

[Research suggests that women who live in apartments have lower fertility rates than women who live in single-family houses. For example, a study found that women who live in studio, 1-, or 2-bedroom apartments have lower fertility rates than women who live in 1- or 2-bedroom single-family houses. Another study found that couples in apartments have a lower risk of first conception than family houses]

Causation vs correlation. Are they lower fertility because they live in an apartment or is that a matter of socioeconomic reality?

I will try and find the thread

But from what I remember if compared places with High income but apartment living (South Korea) with places in the USA that had lower income but more single homes (Alabama) and found higher fertility rates.

People don't seem to do well in apartments or higher density housing

I'm not sure there is a real solution to the population problem. Apartments may not help the situation but even if you magically moved those people in to homes I doubt it changes much of anything.
nein51
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muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
I've already decided i'm going to buy an older (late 90s or early 00s) silverado or sierra and drop a cts-v or z06 lt4 in there with a cam. Everyone needs a 650hp truck. My neighbors will love me when i start it up in the AM.

Would be way less money to use an LS3 than an LT4 (much more availability and no one uses LT platforms any more) and the aftermarket is way stronger for the LS platform.

Hell you can buy an early 2000s with the LS in it.
muddybrazos
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nein51 said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
I've already decided i'm going to buy an older (late 90s or early 00s) silverado or sierra and drop a cts-v or z06 lt4 in there with a cam. Everyone needs a 650hp truck. My neighbors will love me when i start it up in the AM.

Would be way less money to use an LS3 than an LT4 (much more availability and no one uses LT platforms any more) and the aftermarket is way stronger for the LS platform.

Hell you can buy an early 2000s with the LS in it.
like an LS3? I need a 6.2L LS3 not just a regular 5.3 ls. If I dont do that I may just get an old ford and put a coyote 5.0 in it.
nein51
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muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

muddybrazos said:

FLBear5630 said:

muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
I am sticking with my 2018 F150. Seems the older F150's have a better ride than the new ones.
I've already decided i'm going to buy an older (late 90s or early 00s) silverado or sierra and drop a cts-v or z06 lt4 in there with a cam. Everyone needs a 650hp truck. My neighbors will love me when i start it up in the AM.

Would be way less money to use an LS3 than an LT4 (much more availability and no one uses LT platforms any more) and the aftermarket is way stronger for the LS platform.

Hell you can buy an early 2000s with the LS in it.
like an LS3? I need a 6.2L LS3 not just a regular 5.3 ls. If I dont do that I may just get an old ford and put a coyote 5.0 in it.

You really don't need it, you want it.

You can take an LS1 and a couple thousand bucks and have more power than a 1500 truck ever needs.

The only 6.2s were in the Denali package trucks which wouldn't make a particularly good "street mod" imo but it could be done.

Those Coyote swaps cost an absolute mint, they are way, way, wayyyyyy wider than a 302 and they just barely fit between the frame rails. You won't be able to change anything on the exhaust on the passenger side without pulling the engine. Everything on the drivers side fits but you need custom everything (booster, sensors, steering shaft). Even changing the back 3 plugs is a nightmare. I just helped finish one in a Gen 1 Bronco. Side by side with the 302 it's probably every bit of 6" wider.
boognish_bear
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muddybrazos said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Mothra said:

nein51 said:

Redbrickbear said:

boognish_bear said:




The scary thing is there are lots of markets out there now where you could not even buy a house and live on 84k

So not only will you not make that… it would not be enough anyway.

Some thing seems very wrong

Why does someone fresh out of college need or want to buy a house? I rented crappy apartments for years after I graduated.


Same. But I think the larger point is he's right - even at $84k a year - there are lots of markets where you couldn't buy even a starter home and also have money left over to live. That's the case here in Austin.

Things have changed considerably since we were right out of college. Anyone who doesn't see that isn't paying attention.

No disagreement. You'll do what people in California do. Live In Temecula and drive 2 hours to LA. You're not going to be able to live in Austin on 84k but you can probably live within 45 mins. Or you'll have to find somewhere else to work. Eventually the supply will outpace the demand and prices will "fall".

I drive an hour each way.

There's always a trade off.


Sure but the point is, that wasn't the case even 10 years ago. Houses are becoming unaffordable.

Again, I agree. That's not the only thing.

We make a decent living. Not rich but decent.

My one ton truck had a $92,000 sticker price.
Covid really messed up the car market. I bought my Yukon XL in 2020 and its a 2019. I paid 47.5 for it as a 1 yr old truck. I couldve sold it for 15k more than I paid a year later. Now I go look for a similar vehicle thats a 1 year old Yukon XL slt and its 67-70k at least. New chevy tahoes & suburbans are 85k!! Good thing I like to drive my vehicles for 7+ years before looking to trade up.
In 2022 we had to buy used cars for both of our kids that had gotten their licenses. I think it was the worst time in history to be shopping for a car.

I've had success in the past negotiating car purchases and know how to combat a lot of the tricks that dealerships try. But....it was almost impossible in 2022 to negotiate. I had to walk out of so many dealerships when they would not budge an inch. In fact....a lot of times they added $1,000 or more to the advertised price for things they had already added to the car like clearcoat or lojack or whatever. They used to try and get you to buy those add-ons when you were closing the deal with the finance guy....but now they just go ahead and put those things on and try to stick it to the buyer.

It was such a kick in the balls dealing with all of that.


boognish_bear
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boognish_bear
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I'm not sure someone with a $90,000 income would be able to swing that $88,000 downpayment.....unless they are not a first time home buyer.

nein51
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They wouldn't get approved for the loan so it doesn't matter. At $90,000k 28% is $2100/mo assuming basically no other debt.
boognish_bear
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Redbrickbear
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Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear
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Mo' money....less house

Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear said:

Mo' money....less house




So they are just bringing back the old shotgun houses…


125 years of development only to go back to the way we built in 1895

boognish_bear
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Hopefully there are not very many Marcos out there....you aren't ever getting a house making moves like this

nein51
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boognish_bear said:

Hopefully there are not very many Marcos out there....you aren't ever getting a house making moves like this



There are literally millions of them. Want to weep for humanity read comments on Instagram from the "they can't make you make a down payment that illegal" crowd. Yeah that's a thing that exists. People that are that stupid.
boognish_bear
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This can't be right

boognish_bear
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nein51
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boognish_bear said:



Not shocking. That was our plan as well. Buy an investment house down there. Airbnb it and move in to it later in life.
FLBear5630
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nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Not shocking. That was our plan as well. Buy an investment house down there. Airbnb it and move in to it later in life.


Too many investors down here. We had to pass a HOA bylaw to outlaw short term rentals. The investors are destroying neighborhoods.
KaiBear
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nein51 said:

boognish_bear said:



Not shocking. That was our plan as well. Buy an investment house down there. Airbnb it and move in to it later in life.


We looked at buying in Boca Raton last January. However the HOA guidelines wouldn't let us rent the house for 12 months from the closing date.

Quickly realized such rules would soften real estate values.
And in fact several Florida markets have seen price reductions.

But we decided to purchase additional properties in Colorado instead. Hoping to return to Sheridan Wyoming this Thursday.

Love that community and it's real estate climate.
Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear
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nein51
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It needs to slow the migration of Californians
ScottS
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nein51 said:

It needs to slow the migration of Californians
Build the wall around California
Redbrickbear
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nein51
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Sure until you get hit with Californias mansion tax
william
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... don't blame dale.

- el KKM

{ sipping coffee }

go bears!
Are you a man or a mouse!? - F. D.
Redbrickbear
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nein51 said:

Sure until you get hit with Californias mansion tax


Speaking of more California talk….


Redbrickbear
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boognish_bear
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I don't understand this in a day and time when information is so easily accessible. How could they not have a realistic idea of starting salary for the major they've chosen?

boognish_bear
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