The future automation of the workforce

63,938 Views | 1088 Replies | Last: 1 hr ago by whiterock
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:




But who disengaged it? Did it do so on its own and she had no idea? Did she disengage it? Seems like that just opens more questions while solving one.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.

A tool poorly used creates no production.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.




cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.



Oh ok.

Yes they probably should have worded it better.

However to your point AI replacing people is NOT creating jobs. It might take 1 person to manage, code, etc. the AI that causes 1,000 to get fired. So one job "created" but 999 others lost.

So yes like you said old jobs were destroyed while new ones made. Like many jobs that went away and were replaced with modern jobs like say a milk man replaced by a grocery store worker.

But again with AI what we are currently seeing is only a few jobs being created because of AI but thousands being lost.

All the other examples throughout history saw entire new industries or fields being created with the same number or often times more jobs. Currently we are seeing the exact opposite. Lots of jobs lost and very few being created.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.



Oh ok.

Yes they probably should have worded it better.

However to your point AI replacing people is NOT creating jobs. It might take 1 person to manage, code, etc. the AI that causes 1,000 to get fired. So one job "created" but 999 others lost.

So yes like you said old jobs were destroyed while new ones made. Like many jobs that went away and were replaced with modern jobs like say a milk man replaced by a grocery store worker.

But again with AI what we are currently seeing is only a few jobs being created because of AI but thousands being lost.

All the other examples throughout history saw entire new industries or fields being created with the same number or often times more jobs. Currently we are seeing the exact opposite. Lots of jobs lost and very few being created.

Patience. The new jobs do not magically appear in the same places or the same times the old ones are being destroyed.

IF we had the power and infrastructure for water, fiber optic cable, gas lies, etc…..we'd have a thousand data centers under construction RIGHT NOW. Millions of jobs.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
A big problem with AI is how many crooks are selling AI without a clear ROI, and worse, often sell their AI systems according to 'payroll savings', meaning they depend on humans losing jobs for their plan.

It's a redux of the dot com boom/bust, since very few people learn from history.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.



Oh ok.

Yes they probably should have worded it better.

However to your point AI replacing people is NOT creating jobs. It might take 1 person to manage, code, etc. the AI that causes 1,000 to get fired. So one job "created" but 999 others lost.

So yes like you said old jobs were destroyed while new ones made. Like many jobs that went away and were replaced with modern jobs like say a milk man replaced by a grocery store worker.

But again with AI what we are currently seeing is only a few jobs being created because of AI but thousands being lost.

All the other examples throughout history saw entire new industries or fields being created with the same number or often times more jobs. Currently we are seeing the exact opposite. Lots of jobs lost and very few being created.

Patience. The new jobs do not magically appear in the same places or the same times the old ones are being destroyed.

IF we had the power and infrastructure for water, fiber optic cable, gas lies, etc…..we'd have a thousand data centers under construction RIGHT NOW. Millions of jobs.


Millions of temporary jobs….. that would all go away once construction is done with just a few hundred jobs left after construction is completed.

Data centers do NOT create jobs.

All they do is drain. Energy, water, etc.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:




This. And that is what makes AI algorithms. Important and potentially dangerous.
Imagine a nazified AI making suggestions for courses of action, history query answers, etc. Plus all you do would not be analyzed and reported to God knows who.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

boognish_bear said:




This. And that is what makes AI algorithms. Important and potentially dangerous.
Imagine a nazified AI making suggestions for courses of action, history query answers, etc. Plus all you do would not be analyzed and reported to God knows who.


Kind of happened last summer with Grok

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2025/07/10/musk-grok-hitler-ai-00447055



boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:



Sounds great. Let's see how well it goes over time.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

boognish_bear said:



Sounds great. Let's see how well it goes over time.


If we see malfunctions like we have from Waymo vehicles...but it involves the electrical grid...that could get scary.
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.



Oh ok.

Yes they probably should have worded it better.

However to your point AI replacing people is NOT creating jobs. It might take 1 person to manage, code, etc. the AI that causes 1,000 to get fired. So one job "created" but 999 others lost.

So yes like you said old jobs were destroyed while new ones made. Like many jobs that went away and were replaced with modern jobs like say a milk man replaced by a grocery store worker.

But again with AI what we are currently seeing is only a few jobs being created because of AI but thousands being lost.

All the other examples throughout history saw entire new industries or fields being created with the same number or often times more jobs. Currently we are seeing the exact opposite. Lots of jobs lost and very few being created.

Patience. The new jobs do not magically appear in the same places or the same times the old ones are being destroyed.

IF we had the power and infrastructure for water, fiber optic cable, gas lies, etc…..we'd have a thousand data centers under construction RIGHT NOW. Millions of jobs.


Millions of temporary jobs….. that would all go away once construction is done with just a few hundred jobs left after construction is completed.

Data centers do NOT create jobs.

All they do is drain. Energy, water, etc.

Wrong. They don't drain anything. They bring stuff.

We don't have a shortage of water; we have a shortage of water PIPE, We don't have a shortage of natural gas; we have a shortage of natural gas pipe. We don't have a shortage of energy; we have a shortage of energy generation. And on & on & on….

Data centers are bringing massive infrastructure to areas which have none.

Dealing first hand on this.
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Data Centers are, for now, eating massive power and water resources needed by the public while provide little if any value.

Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon said:

boognish_bear said:



Sounds great. Let's see how well it goes over time.

Wait until the day they unionize and all roll off the job!
"If you don't have wrinkles, you haven't laughed enough" - Phillis Diller
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:

EatMoreSalmon said:

boognish_bear said:



Sounds great. Let's see how well it goes over time.


If we see malfunctions like we have from Waymo vehicles...but it involves the electrical grid...that could get scary.


Yep. Ripe for hacking, too.
Assassin
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:



It's Chicago, fits right in with all of the idiots in charge
"If you don't have wrinkles, you haven't laughed enough" - Phillis Diller
whiterock
How long do you want to ignore this user?
Oldbear83 said:

Data Centers are, for now, eating massive power and water resources needed by the public while provide little if any value.



Except for all the infrastructure they're bringing and tax base they're creating.

Yes they use water, but LESS per dollar of investment than other industries. One I'm working on will use 1.5mgd. It's a $15b investment. That $10,000 of tax base per gallon. No other industry comes close. By orders of magnitude. For comparison, a $1b industrial investment in our area uses 1mgd. That's $1,000 of tax base per gallon.

The conventional arguments against data centers about wasteful water and electricity are categorically wrong. They're not wasteful at all. Unless one is prepared to assert that tax base doesn't matter…..
Oldbear83
How long do you want to ignore this user?
" Except for all the infrastructure they're bringing and tax base they're creating."

Zero new jobs, sucking up limited resources people need, sub-predicted ROI where we have numbers ...

It's like calling a cockroach infestation a bonus.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whitetrash
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear said:



Doesn't solve the main problem with the French if the bots still chainsmoke unfiltered cigs and reek of BO like the rest of them.
cowboycwr
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

cowboycwr said:

whiterock said:

boognish_bear said:



geez what a dumb statement. by definition, every dollar spent on investment is a contribution to the final GDP number.


Probably not. When you account for all the laid off people who stopped spending money towards GDP and the fact that AI isn't paid and doesn't contribute to GDP other than a slight bump in one company profits at a time it seems reasonable to say that when you take it all into account the effect was minimal.

GDP = C + I + G + T.

Investment dollars (the "I" number) go straight to GDP, which is the benchmark statistic for "economic growth." Literally every penny of it "adds" to GDP.

The best that can be said is that they failed the English writing part of the economics exam. At worst, it's bad spin.







But again you are missing the point. Laying off 10,000 workers to be replaced by AI will have a huge negative impact on GDP across the board compared to the slight bump in a company saving some money to go to the bank accounts of company big whigs.

That wasn't the argument the statement made. It said "massive investment contributed basically zero" to economic growth. Massive investment does indeed contribute to economic growth, as a matter of simple mathematical calculation of GDP. Now, they may have meant to say what you referred to, but as a simple matter of English composition skills they failed bigly. They might as well have said "yesterday's thunderstorm contributed nothing to annual rainfall."

Beyond that, beware of Luddite thinking. Destruction of old jobs and creation of new ones is an economic dynamic as old as time. The only variance is the rate of change - slow & steady marked by periodic great leaps forward. For most of history, the pace of change was glacial....millennia passed between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age. The pace of change accelerated significantly in the Industrial Revolution. Again, it tended to be incremental over the years, with great leaps along the decades and centuries. The one constant is that at each new threshold of rapid change, critics insisted the world is coming to an end. But it never does. At every transition point the cacophony of doom first went mainstream and then threatened to become conventional wisdom. Yet at each inflection point we emerged healthier, wealthier, and wiser.....in spite of the modern-day witch doctors predicting that our actions will provoke the gods to destroy us.



Oh ok.

Yes they probably should have worded it better.

However to your point AI replacing people is NOT creating jobs. It might take 1 person to manage, code, etc. the AI that causes 1,000 to get fired. So one job "created" but 999 others lost.

So yes like you said old jobs were destroyed while new ones made. Like many jobs that went away and were replaced with modern jobs like say a milk man replaced by a grocery store worker.

But again with AI what we are currently seeing is only a few jobs being created because of AI but thousands being lost.

All the other examples throughout history saw entire new industries or fields being created with the same number or often times more jobs. Currently we are seeing the exact opposite. Lots of jobs lost and very few being created.

Patience. The new jobs do not magically appear in the same places or the same times the old ones are being destroyed.

IF we had the power and infrastructure for water, fiber optic cable, gas lies, etc…..we'd have a thousand data centers under construction RIGHT NOW. Millions of jobs.


Millions of temporary jobs….. that would all go away once construction is done with just a few hundred jobs left after construction is completed.

Data centers do NOT create jobs.

All they do is drain. Energy, water, etc.

Wrong. They don't drain anything. They bring stuff.

We don't have a shortage of water; we have a shortage of water PIPE, We don't have a shortage of natural gas; we have a shortage of natural gas pipe. We don't have a shortage of energy; we have a shortage of energy generation. And on & on & on….

Data centers are bringing massive infrastructure to areas which have none.

Dealing first hand on this.

What do they bring? Serious question. A few top end jobs. So for example if one opens in Waco what jobs would it bring for people already in Waco? None.

And yes they do drain everything else. They use water. Waco already has conservation/usage rules in place during many summers for residents and a huge drain on water would only increase that.

Electricity usage goes up and so far everything I have seen on this shows increase in costs for everyone else around a data center.

Everything I have seen shows them getting huge tax breaks from areas but providing very little in return as they don't bring in jobs, don't bring in workers, and don't contribute to tax base.
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
boognish_bear
How long do you want to ignore this user?
EatMoreSalmon
How long do you want to ignore this user?
whitetrash said:

boognish_bear said:



Doesn't solve the main problem with the French if the bots still chainsmoke unfiltered cigs and reek of BO like the rest of them.


 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.