Oldbear83 said:

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The jobs data tells the truth.

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dr mcguire would be saying:

'the trades' today......



- UF

D!

Oldbear83 said:

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The jobs data tells the truth.

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Yes, but on what date and interval? We have had job growth over the past 12 months, despite eliminating several hundred thousand government jobs, deporting millions of illegals, enduring a government shut-down that robbed almost a point off of GDP for the quarter, etc......

Queue in redbrickbear here. The rate of population growth is sub-replacement. That profoundly affects job creation. AI is the offset. It's what will allow us to produce more with less people.

Oldbear83 said:

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1. You provided no evidence of any jobs created by data centers (by the way, the construction companies you mentioned already had the employees they are using, so that doesn't count as job growth, either). Like it or not, the available numbers say data centers are not creating net job growth, but - perhaps indirectly - causing job loss.
Now look who's playing semantics. We have data centers up & running all over the country. Are you saying they are running themselves? And your argument about the construction jobs is similarly myopic: if we are going to ramp up DC construction, we are going to have to ramp up construction hiring. Cannot get where we need to be with current construction capacity. Gonna have to HIRE MORE CONSTRUCTION WORKERS.

2. The increased costs of water and power for individual customers has already been documented. You cannot simply pretend it's not happening.
It's not happening everywhere. And it's not going to happen going forward given that both state and federal governments are requiring new data centers to build their own energy generation. Net effect is = the DCs to be built are going to lower energy prices by causing a net increase in energy generation.

3. Tax abatements are not helping citizens. Pretending the shiny new toy is going to help people just because you like it is not a compelling argument.
You obviously do not understand tax abatements. They are not permanent waivers of tax liability. They are temporary reductions in tax liability which phase out over time, typically 5-10yrs. Even in year 1, the governments get revenue...above baseline revenues. And those increases escalate up to full tax liability in a 5-10yr timeframe. We will not be giving any for data centers. No need to, given the shortage of space.

Ex: We recently did a 380 agreement with a construction company on modification of a vacant building in our city on behalf of a national retailer. They will get 90% abatement in yr 1, 80% in yr 2, etc....until a fixed dollar amount is reached (projections are that will be in year 6). The building is vacant now. Has been for almost 10 years. We will get something for it now. And a little bit more next year. And a little more the year after that. etc..... Or. We could say "screw your abatements" and not have anything at all.

We concluded that a small percentage of something is larger than 100% of nothing.

I am by no means a Luddite. I am, however, well aware that new technology is often harmful to many real people, and it's perfectly reasonable to hold companies responsible for the effects of their actions.
If you don't intend to be a Luddite, quit making quintessentially Luddite arguments.

---

Every data center built adds jobs to GDP = new DC jobs, new construction jobs.

Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

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LOL your a priori argument is preventing you from seeing what is in plain sight = DC jobs are in the employment numbers. We have 4000 DCs in place at this time. 7-digits worth of jobs. We are going to double that number of DCs in the next 5-8 years. The new ones will on average be larger than the ones we have now, so jobs should be somewhat more than double.

Now, if you were making the case that AI is destroying more jobs than it's creating, that would be true at this
time. That was true when Henry Ford started putting the buggy makers out of business, too. Yet, today, every home has AT LEAST one car in the driveway. Most have two. A LOT have more than two. Same was never true for buggy's.

One of the DCs I'm working with is a 1gig facility. As part of their plan, they are going to acquire over 2gigs of power generation currently 85% offline. They are planning on adding 3gigs more. Waiting on tender offers to resolve….

So. How many jobs is that 600-job DC going to create?
(The DC initiative is going to pay for the infrastructure needed to reindustrialize our country.)

The Progress is coming whether the Luddites want it or not.

You didn't actually answer my post, you know.

You just repeated the same unproven claims you used all through this thread.

Meanwhile the job losses continue and the data centers provide no public value.

Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

---

He can't provide data other than what he says. It is why he has stopped replying to me. I have provided data links.

He has nothing to refute it so he ignores it.

Sort of like the post about the polluted water. He can't refute it so he ignores it.

Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

I remember them at department stores in the late 1960s; I think at the downtown Dallas Neiman's IIRC.

Oldbear83 said:

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You didn't actually answer my post, you know.
LOL. I answered it specifically. We have over 4k data centers in operation. They employ hundreds of thousands of people. The number of data centers is going to more than double over the next several years. More people will be employed. (probably at a higher rate).

You just repeated the same unproven claims you used all through this thread.
Your statements are that data centers add no jobs. Fact is, they do. Every time one opens, hundreds more jobs are added to total employment. And their operations facilitate a wide range of other jobs, particularly in energy and infrastructure.

Meanwhile the job losses continue and the data centers provide no public value.
Patently untrue. They create enormous tax base, funding for roads and schools and all kinds of infrastructure upgrades well away from the DCs themselves. PLUS they bring in all kinds of infrastructure at their own expense which facilitates even more development.

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The only way your statement that they create no jobs can be true is if we narrow the claim to say that data centers kill more jobs than they create. That is to some degree true. For now. In great technological leaps forward in the past, jobs were killed on the front end; jobs created were on the back end. No reason to think that will not be true this go around. They are creating jobs RIGHT NOW. By this source 18k DC jobs are open right now. But the clerks losing their jobs elsewhere will have to be retrained.....
https://www.simplyhired.com/search?q=data+centers&l=United+States

The new DCs built from scratch in rural areas will have much larger footprints, and have much larger employment rolls than the old ones shoe-horned into limited available space. Tax base follows that model.

Which investment is "better?"
-a $1b Cardboard manufacturing plant that uses 1mgd of water and creates 600 jobs. ($1k in tax base per gallon).
-a $15b Data Center that uses 1.5mgd water and creates 600 jobs. ($10k in tax base per gallon).
Answer: They're different. I'll take either one, preferably both, thank you very much. But if I have to choose, I'll take the DC every time. Same number of jobs, and vastly greater tax base.

Think man, Think!

whitetrash said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

I remember them at department stores in the late 1960s; I think at the downtown Dallas Neiman's IIRC.

---

had them in Waco in the 1960s.

cowboycwr said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

---

He can't provide data other than what he says. It is why he has stopped replying to me. I have provided data links.

He has nothing to refute it so he ignores it.

Sort of like the post about the polluted water. He can't refute it so he ignores it.

---

The employment numbers on data centers are widely available. You can lumber on in ignorance if you wish.

please provide the location of a Data Center that has polluted water supply. Search this phrase: "examples of data center water pollution." My results were zero.

If you bothered to learn more about DCs, you'd understand why. They are the cleanest industrial process imaginable. The interior is cool and dark, as close to dust free as possible....almost surgically clean. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The equipment is inert metal and plastic. The cooling systems vary, but typically use either air or water. The air just passes thru the radiators unaffected. Same for the water. Water in a closed system does have a tendency to accumulate mineral contents over time (varying depending on source) due to the evaporative process. That is not a new factor for industry and is easily treatable on site, with very modest quantities of solids hauled off to landfill.

The internet is full of allegations about all the things that COULD go wrong and woefully short on actual problems other than poor planning by company and municipal officials, particularly on water supply.

If you think that cardboard plant is safer, cleaner, more eco-conscious than a DC, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you to buy.

whiterock said:

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whitetrash said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

I remember them at department stores in the late 1960s; I think at the downtown Dallas Neiman's IIRC.

---

had them in Waco in the 1960s.

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Maybe that's where I remember them: either the downtown Cox's or the downtown Monnig's?

whiterock said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

---

He can't provide data other than what he says. It is why he has stopped replying to me. I have provided data links.

He has nothing to refute it so he ignores it.

Sort of like the post about the polluted water. He can't refute it so he ignores it.

---

The employment numbers on data centers are widely available. You can lumber on in ignorance if you wish.

please provide the location of a Data Center that has polluted water supply. Search this phrase: "examples of data center water pollution." My results were zero.

If you bothered to learn more about DCs, you'd understand why. They are the cleanest industrial process imaginable. The interior is cool and dark, as close to dust free as possible....almost surgically clean. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The equipment is inert metal and plastic. The cooling systems vary, but typically use either air or water. The air just passes thru the radiators unaffected. Same for the water. Water in a closed system does have a tendency to accumulate mineral contents over time (varying depending on source) due to the evaporative process. That is not a new factor for industry and is easily treatable on site, with very modest quantities of solids hauled off to landfill.

The internet is full of allegations about all the things that COULD go wrong and woefully short on actual problems other than poor planning by company and municipal officials, particularly on water supply.

If you think that cardboard plant is safer, cleaner, more eco-conscious than a DC, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you to buy.

---

I have searched about the jobs. They create few jobs.

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/10/nx-s1-5355017/data-centers-bring-money-to-small-towns-but-do-they-also-bring-jobs

I have provided other examples but you have provided nothing but what you "claim" and expect us to believe you because you say so.

Look above for the location of the data center that polluted the water. It is literally provided in this very thread but you ignored it.

Yes DC don't have any air pollution with them. But the water pollution seems reasonable. Same with the noise pollution.

So again. I have provided links. Others have provided links. You have provided nothing.

The burden is on you to back up your claim. The media has posted story after story about DCs and yet you keep ignoring them even when I asked directly about it and tried to brush it off with "well they are wrong."

cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

Saw them in NYC when we went during the World's Fair back in the 60s to visit my grandparents. I had no idea elevators had attendants. Also so the AutoMat where you could buy sandwiches and pie slices using coins. Innovative

In new Quinnipiac poll, Americans oppose building AI data centers in their communities by 65-24 margin: https://t.co/sjqZwWHti3

— Patrick Svitek (@PatrickSvitek) March 30, 2026

" Think man, Think!"

A strange exhortation from someone who in this thread is all about spreading mindless unsupported propaganda.

I am thinking, sir, of the millions hurt by the AI fad. Not that AI itself is a fad, but the careless explosion of AI used in ways that do not help people but which cost is penurious, and whose advocates are pernicious.

Assassin said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

Saw them in NYC when we went during the World's Fair back in the 60s to visit my grandparents. I had no idea elevators had attendants. Also so the AutoMat where you could buy sandwiches and pie slices using coins. Innovative

---

Geez, I grew up by the old Worlds Fair! Got a picture by the Globe crew cut and Met's shirt on with a stupid grin as a kid! I also remember the AutoMat. My Mom took us when we went to Radio City. NYC was great in the 60's. Mets, Yankees, Jets, Giants, Knicks, Manhattan, the Garden, Belmont. It was really a great place...

FLBear5630 said:

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Assassin said:

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cowboycwr said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

Saw them in NYC when we went during the World's Fair back in the 60s to visit my grandparents. I had no idea elevators had attendants. Also so the AutoMat where you could buy sandwiches and pie slices using coins. Innovative

---

Geez, I grew up by the old Worlds Fair! Got a picture by the Globe crew cut and Met's shirt on with a stupid grin as a kid! I also remember the AutoMat. My Mom took us when we went to Radio City. NYC was great in the 60's. Mets, Yankees, Jets, Giants, Knicks, Manhattan, the Garden, Belmont. It was really a great place...

---

We were in Elmhurst, in Queens. That globe was my favorite thing, of course until we did the Staten Island Ferry and that great view of the Statue of Liberty.

First it was Black Mirror, now it’s just Monday in Atlanta.

A company called Undaunted raised nearly $1M this February to flood Atlanta with these "pack" patrols.

​They are called private security "packs" and now patrol ATL streets.

These autonomous dogs are controlled by… pic.twitter.com/YfQWN1rb4L

— Desiree (@DesireeAmerica4) March 30, 2026

Assassin said:

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FLBear5630 said:

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Assassin said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Assassin said:

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Elevators used to be manually operated and were especially risky if the operator was tired or inebriated.

Now, you just get in, press a button and a modern elevator, if inspected regularly, is extremely safe. https://t.co/wetvKfvJtH

— Elon Musk (@elonmusk) March 29, 2026

---

While I get the point the thing about no one alive having seen an elevator operator is false.

My dad and in-laws in their 70s remember them from their childhood and teen years.

According to google they began to be phased out in the 1950s and disappeared completely by the mid 1970s. So plenty of people are still alive that saw them.

---

Saw them in NYC when we went during the World's Fair back in the 60s to visit my grandparents. I had no idea elevators had attendants. Also so the AutoMat where you could buy sandwiches and pie slices using coins. Innovative

---

Geez, I grew up by the old Worlds Fair! Got a picture by the Globe crew cut and Met's shirt on with a stupid grin as a kid! I also remember the AutoMat. My Mom took us when we went to Radio City. NYC was great in the 60's. Mets, Yankees, Jets, Giants, Knicks, Manhattan, the Garden, Belmont. It was really a great place...

---

We were in Elmhurst, in Queens. That globe was my favorite thing, of course until we did the Staten Island Ferry and that great view of the Statue of Liberty.

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We straddled Ozone Park and Richmond Hill, could see Aqueduct Race Track from my bedroom window.

Elmhurst, well we have the two NY Airports covered you LaGuardia and me JFK...

Yeah...I'm not ready to stick my arm in that thing just yet

A robot just replaced the human who draws your blood, and it is already inside European hospitals right now.

The device called Aletta is CE-marked, the European equivalent of FDA approval and it is already operating on real patients.

Vitestro built a machine that maps your… pic.twitter.com/ornuUsvNA9

— StockMarket.News (@_Investinq) March 30, 2026

boognish_bear said:

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Yeah...I'm not ready to stick my arm in that thing just yet

A robot just replaced the human who draws your blood, and it is already inside European hospitals right now.

The device called Aletta is CE-marked, the European equivalent of FDA approval and it is already operating on real patients.

Vitestro built a machine that maps your… pic.twitter.com/ornuUsvNA9

— StockMarket.News (@_Investinq) March 30, 2026

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That machine would be a great subject for a horror film! Potential to be a lot scarier than Chucky!

The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

Notice they cut the person selling the drink but didn’t cut the price of the drink to match https://t.co/L8s2C8UMd2

— samonella 🇲🇽 (@samobasq) March 29, 2026

boognish_bear said:

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The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

---

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

---

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

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Not going to help. Heat islands are real, global warming connection? Who knows. Truth is probably in middle not as bad as Progressives but not nothing either.

🚨Governor DeSantis says people are realizing how much Artificial Intelligence SUCKS and want nothing to do with it!

“Artificial intelligence has become VERY unpopular. You remember like a year ago everyone said ‘oh you know AI it's we got to go all in you know we just need to… pic.twitter.com/ECVZQDUrTv

— Chris Nelson 🏝️🇺🇸 (@ReOpenChris) March 31, 2026

boognish_bear said:

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🚨Governor DeSantis says people are realizing how much Artificial Intelligence SUCKS and want nothing to do with it!

“Artificial intelligence has become VERY unpopular. You remember like a year ago everyone said ‘oh you know AI it's we got to go all in you know we just need to… pic.twitter.com/ECVZQDUrTv

— Chris Nelson 🏝️🇺🇸 (@ReOpenChris) March 31, 2026

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It has made analysis more labor intensive. The only ones I have heard that love it is academia, big Universities with massive systems.

cowboycwr said:

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whiterock said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

---

He can't provide data other than what he says. It is why he has stopped replying to me. I have provided data links.

He has nothing to refute it so he ignores it.

Sort of like the post about the polluted water. He can't refute it so he ignores it.

---

The employment numbers on data centers are widely available. You can lumber on in ignorance if you wish.

please provide the location of a Data Center that has polluted water supply. Search this phrase: "examples of data center water pollution." My results were zero.

If you bothered to learn more about DCs, you'd understand why. They are the cleanest industrial process imaginable. The interior is cool and dark, as close to dust free as possible....almost surgically clean. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The equipment is inert metal and plastic. The cooling systems vary, but typically use either air or water. The air just passes thru the radiators unaffected. Same for the water. Water in a closed system does have a tendency to accumulate mineral contents over time (varying depending on source) due to the evaporative process. That is not a new factor for industry and is easily treatable on site, with very modest quantities of solids hauled off to landfill.

The internet is full of allegations about all the things that COULD go wrong and woefully short on actual problems other than poor planning by company and municipal officials, particularly on water supply.

If you think that cardboard plant is safer, cleaner, more eco-conscious than a DC, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you to buy.

---

I have searched about the jobs. They create few jobs.

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/10/nx-s1-5355017/data-centers-bring-money-to-small-towns-but-do-they-also-bring-jobs

I have provided other examples but you have provided nothing but what you "claim" and expect us to believe you because you say so.

Look above for the location of the data center that polluted the water. It is literally provided in this very thread but you ignored it.

Yes DC don't have any air pollution with them. But the water pollution seems reasonable. Same with the noise pollution.

So again. I have provided links. Others have provided links. You have provided nothing.

The burden is on you to back up your claim. The media has posted story after story about DCs and yet you keep ignoring them even when I asked directly about it and tried to brush it off with "well they are wrong."

---

LOL the story you posted proves my point. Literally cites the numbers of jobs created. Small ones ($1B or so) create 10s of jobs. Larger ones create hundreds. The one I'm most familiar with is $15B and will create 600. As the story also notes, 600 jobs is a huge friggin' deal in a small town. Could increase the population by as much as 25% in my city. Damned sure a big deal for us. Yet the critics' claim is always "few jobs created." Well, it's certainly true that DCs create a surprisingly small amount of jobs per dollar invested when compered to other sectors of industry. But isn't that the point of automation.....to find ways to become more efficient? I mean, geeze, dude. Look at history. The whole reason we build factories to build tractors is TO REPLACE LABOR in the fields. And our population is in decline, right? Don't we need MORE automation rather than less????

DCs, particularly the coming wave of them in more rural areas, also bring the infrastructure. Each one of them is a brand new industrial park...hundreds of acres with a single tenant. And those pipes headed into the DC bringing water & gas (and removing sewage) are INFRASTRUCTURE OTHER BUSINESSES CAN HOOK UP TO.

Significantly........jobs are not the only consideration here. Tax base matters as well. And boy do the DCs bring the tax base. It takes tax base to build roads, bridges, schools, fire stations, etc..... Also takes tax base to pay off the national debt. Lastly and most importantly: how do we propose to pay off the national debt without more tax base? Answer: Either you write a bigger check to the government, or we get more tax payers to write more checks to the government.

You guys need to quit the reflexive recto-cranial inversion and start thinking. Look at the top 10 companies in the Dow, or the S&P 500 = tech companies. they need more server space if they are going to continue to grow their business (which of course is a prerequisite for them to do not unimportant things like employing people and paying federal taxes). They are going to lease that server space wherever they can find it. Do we want them to find it in China, or Thailand, or India, etc.......? Or do we want them to house their data here.....to invest tax base here......to hire whatever workers they ultimately will hire HERE!

Do you want your personal data, your loan documents, your warranty documents, etc.....to be housed in some podunk little place in America, or in China. Do we want Invida, Google, et al....to hire Chinese to run their DCs, or Americans?

Think man, THINK!

Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

---

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

---

and ignore that the high cost of energy is directly attributable to a shortage of generation equipment.

Each one of these new DCs are now required by law to bring their own energy, to invest in enough energy generation to power their own plants. The ratio required is 1.4 to 1.....meaning it takes 1.4 units of energy for each unit of data. So a 1gig DC will need 1.4gig of power.

Oh. By the way. Energy generation plants hire people, too. Sure, like DCs, energy generation plants have a very low ratio of job creation per dollar invested. But, like DCs, they do create a metric shyte-ton of tax base. And like data, energy is a prerequisite for economic activity to occur, at least unless we are talking about going back to using the sickle to harvest crops by hand, and using an abacus to calculate the trajectory of satellites.

these anti-DC arguments are so tediously obtuse.....

whiterock said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

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Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

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and ignore that the high cost of energy is directly attributable to a shortage of generation equipment.

Each one of these new DCs are now required by law to bring their own energy, to invest in enough energy generation to power their own plants. The ratio required is 1.4 to 1.....meaning it takes 1.4 units of energy for each unit of data. So a 1gig DC will need 1.4gig of power.

Oh. By the way. Energy generation plants hire people, too. Sure, like DCs, energy generation plants have a very low ratio of job creation per dollar invested. But, like DCs, they do create a metric shyte-ton of tax base. And like data, energy is a prerequisite for economic activity to occur, at least unless we are talking about going back to using the sickle to harvest crops by hand, and using an abacus to calculate the trajectory of satellites.

these anti-DC arguments are so tediously obtuse.....

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You may find this article interesting. It is the County Administration view. There is no right or wrong on this, there is only the deal you cut and the needs of the area.

What works well in Texas, may not be able to be approved in VA. For example, Louden County is now requiring closed loop cooling which is more expensive but does conserve water usage. In Louden Cty that make sense, in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe not. In VA, if you are a County and NOT working with DCs you are in trouble.

Counties grapple with data center boom | National Association of Counties

(By the way, they may not generate a lot of jobs, but the ones they do are high paying.)

More data
Data Centers Growing Fast and Reshaping Local Economies

AI's Data Center Boom Is Testing Power Grids And Local Communities

From what I have seen at the local government level, you are both right. DC's are here to stay and how a community can increase its industrial tax base is a large part of the equation. But, they do have community impacts and how the Development Agreements are structured will dictate the impact. In local government, if you are not growing, you are dying. So, getting on board is a must.

whiterock said:

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cowboycwr said:

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whiterock said:

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cowboycwr said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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Funny all those jobs you brag about, cannot be found in employment numbers.

But sure, keep pretending those data centers are good for the economy, not parasitic.

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He can't provide data other than what he says. It is why he has stopped replying to me. I have provided data links.

He has nothing to refute it so he ignores it.

Sort of like the post about the polluted water. He can't refute it so he ignores it.

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The employment numbers on data centers are widely available. You can lumber on in ignorance if you wish.

please provide the location of a Data Center that has polluted water supply. Search this phrase: "examples of data center water pollution." My results were zero.

If you bothered to learn more about DCs, you'd understand why. They are the cleanest industrial process imaginable. The interior is cool and dark, as close to dust free as possible....almost surgically clean. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The equipment is inert metal and plastic. The cooling systems vary, but typically use either air or water. The air just passes thru the radiators unaffected. Same for the water. Water in a closed system does have a tendency to accumulate mineral contents over time (varying depending on source) due to the evaporative process. That is not a new factor for industry and is easily treatable on site, with very modest quantities of solids hauled off to landfill.

The internet is full of allegations about all the things that COULD go wrong and woefully short on actual problems other than poor planning by company and municipal officials, particularly on water supply.

If you think that cardboard plant is safer, cleaner, more eco-conscious than a DC, I have some ocean front property in Arizona for you to buy.

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I have searched about the jobs. They create few jobs.

https://www.npr.org/2025/04/10/nx-s1-5355017/data-centers-bring-money-to-small-towns-but-do-they-also-bring-jobs

I have provided other examples but you have provided nothing but what you "claim" and expect us to believe you because you say so.

Look above for the location of the data center that polluted the water. It is literally provided in this very thread but you ignored it.

Yes DC don't have any air pollution with them. But the water pollution seems reasonable. Same with the noise pollution.

So again. I have provided links. Others have provided links. You have provided nothing.

The burden is on you to back up your claim. The media has posted story after story about DCs and yet you keep ignoring them even when I asked directly about it and tried to brush it off with "well they are wrong."

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LOL the story you posted proves my point. Literally cites the numbers of jobs created. Small ones ($1B or so) create 10s of jobs. Larger ones create hundreds. The one I'm most familiar with is $15B and will create 600. As the story also notes, 600 jobs is a huge friggin' deal in a small town. Could increase the population by as much as 25% in my city. Damned sure a big deal for us. Yet the critics' claim is always "few jobs created." Well, it's certainly true that DCs create a surprisingly small amount of jobs per dollar invested when compered to other sectors of industry. But isn't that the point of automation.....to find ways to become more efficient? I mean, geeze, dude. Look at history. The whole reason we build factories to build tractors is TO REPLACE LABOR in the fields. And our population is in decline, right? Don't we need MORE automation rather than less????

DCs, particularly the coming wave of them in more rural areas, also bring the infrastructure. Each one of them is a brand new industrial park...hundreds of acres with a single tenant. And those pipes headed into the DC bringing water & gas (and removing sewage) are INFRASTRUCTURE OTHER BUSINESSES CAN HOOK UP TO.

Significantly........jobs are not the only consideration here. Tax base matters as well. And boy do the DCs bring the tax base. It takes tax base to build roads, bridges, schools, fire stations, etc..... Also takes tax base to pay off the national debt. Lastly and most importantly: how do we propose to pay off the national debt without more tax base? Answer: Either you write a bigger check to the government, or we get more tax payers to write more checks to the government.

You guys need to quit the reflexive recto-cranial inversion and start thinking. Look at the top 10 companies in the Dow, or the S&P 500 = tech companies. they need more server space if they are going to continue to grow their business (which of course is a prerequisite for them to do not unimportant things like employing people and paying federal taxes). They are going to lease that server space wherever they can find it. Do we want them to find it in China, or Thailand, or India, etc.......? Or do we want them to house their data here.....to invest tax base here......to hire whatever workers they ultimately will hire HERE!

Do you want your personal data, your loan documents, your warranty documents, etc.....to be housed in some podunk little place in America, or in China. Do we want Invida, Google, et al....to hire Chinese to run their DCs, or Americans?

Think man, THINK!

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Ok you are delusional if you think that proves your point.

That article proves my point about there being almost no jobs. The article title even says that!!!!

You ignored that the jobs are new and will not be jobs for the people in the town currently.

You ignored the pollution presented.

You ignored that the construction jobs are temporary,

You ignored the tax breaks given.

You ignore the FACTS presented to you. You ignore links given to you.

You keep saying think and yet we are. WE have asked questions and you don't answer. You basically say "they are good because I say so!" "Trust me because I claim to work with them." So of course you are going to say your industry is good. But you have presented no links with facts to prove a single claim.

You keep ignoring my questions and have yet to provide any evidence. Until you do I am done talking to you because all you keep doing is making claims with no evidence. Provide evidence. Because right now the mountain of evidence shows that DC are bad, do not create jobs, use up water, use up electricity and the local population end up paying the cost.



Provide evidence to back up all your claims. Actually answer the multiple questions you have ignored.


Provide evidence.

FLBear5630 said:

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whiterock said:

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Assassin said:

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boognish_bear said:

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The vast data centers that power artificial intelligence guzzle huge amounts of energy but they also have another alarming impact, according to new research. They are creating “heat islands,” warming the land around them by up to 16 degrees Fahrenheit, and making life hotter for… pic.twitter.com/ojFWRcRins

— CNN (@CNN) March 31, 2026

---

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

---

and ignore that the high cost of energy is directly attributable to a shortage of generation equipment.

Each one of these new DCs are now required by law to bring their own energy, to invest in enough energy generation to power their own plants. The ratio required is 1.4 to 1.....meaning it takes 1.4 units of energy for each unit of data. So a 1gig DC will need 1.4gig of power.

Oh. By the way. Energy generation plants hire people, too. Sure, like DCs, energy generation plants have a very low ratio of job creation per dollar invested. But, like DCs, they do create a metric shyte-ton of tax base. And like data, energy is a prerequisite for economic activity to occur, at least unless we are talking about going back to using the sickle to harvest crops by hand, and using an abacus to calculate the trajectory of satellites.

these anti-DC arguments are so tediously obtuse.....

---

You may find this article interesting. It is the County Administration view. There is no right or wrong on this, there is only the deal you cut and the needs of the area.

What works well in Texas, may not be able to be approved in VA. For example, Louden County is now requiring closed loop cooling which is more expensive but does conserve water usage. In Louden Cty that make sense, in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe not. In VA, if you are a County and NOT working with DCs you are in trouble.

Counties grapple with data center boom | National Association of Counties

(By the way, they may not generate a lot of jobs, but the ones they do are high paying.)

More data
Data Centers Growing Fast and Reshaping Local Economies

AI's Data Center Boom Is Testing Power Grids And Local Communities

From what I have seen at the local government level, you are both right. DC's are here to stay and how a community can increase its industrial tax base is a large part of the equation. But, they do have community impacts and how the Development Agreements are structured will dictate the impact. In local government, if you are not growing, you are dying. So, getting on board is a must.

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closed loop water cooling systems are also much quieter. All the centers I'm aware of are using them. can cut water usage to a third or so of what open loop or air-cooled need. The air-cooled systems are particularly noisy.

I strongly suspect the reason so many are moving to the closed-loop systems is because of the Trump requirement for the DCs to generate their own power. Those power generation plants need a LOT of water, too.....even more than the DCs.