The future automation of the workforce

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FLBear5630
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In reply to whiterock • 7:31a, 4/2/26
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
whiterock said:
Assassin said:
boognish_bear said:

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

and ignore that the high cost of energy is directly attributable to a shortage of generation equipment.

Each one of these new DCs are now required by law to bring their own energy, to invest in enough energy generation to power their own plants. The ratio required is 1.4 to 1.....meaning it takes 1.4 units of energy for each unit of data. So a 1gig DC will need 1.4gig of power.

Oh. By the way. Energy generation plants hire people, too. Sure, like DCs, energy generation plants have a very low ratio of job creation per dollar invested. But, like DCs, they do create a metric shyte-ton of tax base. And like data, energy is a prerequisite for economic activity to occur, at least unless we are talking about going back to using the sickle to harvest crops by hand, and using an abacus to calculate the trajectory of satellites.

these anti-DC arguments are so tediously obtuse.....

You may find this article interesting. It is the County Administration view. There is no right or wrong on this, there is only the deal you cut and the needs of the area.

What works well in Texas, may not be able to be approved in VA. For example, Louden County is now requiring closed loop cooling which is more expensive but does conserve water usage. In Louden Cty that make sense, in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe not. In VA, if you are a County and NOT working with DCs you are in trouble.

Counties grapple with data center boom | National Association of Counties

(By the way, they may not generate a lot of jobs, but the ones they do are high paying.)

More data
Data Centers Growing Fast and Reshaping Local Economies

AI's Data Center Boom Is Testing Power Grids And Local Communities

From what I have seen at the local government level, you are both right. DC's are here to stay and how a community can increase its industrial tax base is a large part of the equation. But, they do have community impacts and how the Development Agreements are structured will dictate the impact. In local government, if you are not growing, you are dying. So, getting on board is a must.

closed loop water cooling systems are also much quieter. All the centers I'm aware of are using them. can cut water usage to a third or so of what open loop or air-cooled need. The air-cooled systems are particularly noisy.

I strongly suspect the reason so many are moving to the closed-loop systems is because of the Trump requirement for the DCs to generate their own power. Those power generation plants need a LOT of water, too.....even more than the DCs.

This may be the push that make fusion a reality. Self-package plants. Change spurs innovation.

My only concern is the valuations we see before there is any tangible metrics to warrant it. All based on projection. For example, Tesla still hasn't out earned GM, yet Tesla is valued much higher. People talk per vehicle and the future... I fear we are paying before any real functional value occurs.
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whiterock
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 6:58p, 4/2/26
FLBear5630 said:
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
whiterock said:
Assassin said:
boognish_bear said:

Lefties will start saying that the whole reason that we have global warming is due to data centers.....

and ignore that the high cost of energy is directly attributable to a shortage of generation equipment.

Each one of these new DCs are now required by law to bring their own energy, to invest in enough energy generation to power their own plants. The ratio required is 1.4 to 1.....meaning it takes 1.4 units of energy for each unit of data. So a 1gig DC will need 1.4gig of power.

Oh. By the way. Energy generation plants hire people, too. Sure, like DCs, energy generation plants have a very low ratio of job creation per dollar invested. But, like DCs, they do create a metric shyte-ton of tax base. And like data, energy is a prerequisite for economic activity to occur, at least unless we are talking about going back to using the sickle to harvest crops by hand, and using an abacus to calculate the trajectory of satellites.

these anti-DC arguments are so tediously obtuse.....

You may find this article interesting. It is the County Administration view. There is no right or wrong on this, there is only the deal you cut and the needs of the area.

What works well in Texas, may not be able to be approved in VA. For example, Louden County is now requiring closed loop cooling which is more expensive but does conserve water usage. In Louden Cty that make sense, in the Pacific Northwest? Maybe not. In VA, if you are a County and NOT working with DCs you are in trouble.

Counties grapple with data center boom | National Association of Counties

(By the way, they may not generate a lot of jobs, but the ones they do are high paying.)

More data
Data Centers Growing Fast and Reshaping Local Economies

AI's Data Center Boom Is Testing Power Grids And Local Communities

From what I have seen at the local government level, you are both right. DC's are here to stay and how a community can increase its industrial tax base is a large part of the equation. But, they do have community impacts and how the Development Agreements are structured will dictate the impact. In local government, if you are not growing, you are dying. So, getting on board is a must.

closed loop water cooling systems are also much quieter. All the centers I'm aware of are using them. can cut water usage to a third or so of what open loop or air-cooled need. The air-cooled systems are particularly noisy.

I strongly suspect the reason so many are moving to the closed-loop systems is because of the Trump requirement for the DCs to generate their own power. Those power generation plants need a LOT of water, too.....even more than the DCs.

This may be the push that make fusion a reality. Self-package plants. Change spurs innovation.

My only concern is the valuations we see before there is any tangible metrics to warrant it. All based on projection. For example, Tesla still hasn't out earned GM, yet Tesla is valued much higher. People talk per vehicle and the future... I fear we are paying before any real functional value occurs.

I'm hearing the package nuke plants are still more than 24 months away. Will solve a lot of problems, for sure.

Our appraisal districts assess the market value of the property and internal contents. And on large concerns, that value is often negotiated rather than leaving to the courts. Some horror stories about over-valuations getting overturned in court, causing havoc with local government entities.
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boognish_bear
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12:10p, 4/3/26
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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 1:19p, 4/3/26
boognish_bear said:


But white rock said they are good!!! He hasn't provided one piece of evidence or one link despite numerous ones being provided to him but trust him!!!!! He deals with them all the time!!!! But again can't provide one link to a town that has seen these massive, yuge tax increases he talks of again despite evidence being shown of the DC getting massive tax breaks.

So trust him they are good!!!!!
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boognish_bear
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8:41p, 4/3/26


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whiterock
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In reply to cowboycwr • 9:20p, 4/3/26
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


But white rock said they are good!!! He hasn't provided one piece of evidence or one link despite numerous ones being provided to him but trust him!!!!! He deals with them all the time!!!! But again can't provide one link to a town that has seen these massive, yuge tax increases he talks of again despite evidence being shown of the DC getting massive tax breaks.

So trust him they are good!!!!!

1. the council probably had no choice in the matter. if someone buys a property and requests a permit for a use which squarely fits zoning and ordinance, government should not (and in most cases cannot) stop that use just because the citizens don't like it. In Tx, it is illegal for a water provider to refuse to issue a meter unless they are out of meters. The operative concept is that no one should be denied water because because they got crossways with the water provider. Same for corporate purchase of commercial property in a city. If their activity fits the zoning and ordinances, the city cannot refuse a building permit just because a bunch of citizens don't want it.

2. that link doesn't show what you think it shows. Festus MO has 12k citizens A hundred or so citizens showing up to holler nonsense about data centers doesn't necessarily mean the whole city is against the data centers (as the link suggests.

3) Yes, the Data Centers are a good thing. They bring badly needed tax base and badly needed infrastructure without any of the pathologies critics allege a to be articles of faith. The new ones do not use significantly more water than other industrial uses like paper, cardboard, or food & beverage factories. While it is true they create less jobs than those kinds of industrial uses, it is equally true that they vastly outclass those industrial uses in creation of tax base. so they do have a place in our growth plan. The noise in most of the new models will be in the 60db range, easily fitting existing industrial standards (i.e. the new ones are not remarkably noisy). And they are the cleanest industry imaginable. Metal racks housing metal clad servers full of inert plastic and metal circuit boards & memory chips. The raw materials come into the buildling in a wire (electrical cable); the finished product leaves in a wire (fiberoptic cable).

The hysterical claims made by opponents are really quite easy to debunk, assuming someone is interested int he truth.

The Luddites usually lose......
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whiterock
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In reply to boognish_bear • 9:23p, 4/3/26
boognish_bear said:



This would have applicability in Great Lakes states and New England. Unfortunately, they are too blue to craft policy to get them built. Ergo, a lot of them are coming to Texas
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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 9:36p, 4/3/26
boognish_bear said:




If the entire thing is underwater and you don't need to pump in water, use ac or anything like that how is there still cooling costs at 10%? What is costing them to cool?
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cowboycwr
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In reply to whiterock • 9:37p, 4/3/26
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


But white rock said they are good!!! He hasn't provided one piece of evidence or one link despite numerous ones being provided to him but trust him!!!!! He deals with them all the time!!!! But again can't provide one link to a town that has seen these massive, yuge tax increases he talks of again despite evidence being shown of the DC getting massive tax breaks.

So trust him they are good!!!!!

1. the council probably had no choice in the matter. if someone buys a property and requests a permit for a use which squarely fits zoning and ordinance, government should not (and in most cases cannot) stop that use just because the citizens don't like it. In Tx, it is illegal for a water provider to refuse to issue a meter unless they are out of meters. The operative concept is that no one should be denied water because because they got crossways with the water provider. Same for corporate purchase of commercial property in a city. If their activity fits the zoning and ordinances, the city cannot refuse a building permit just because a bunch of citizens don't want it.

2. that link doesn't show what you think it shows. Festus MO has 12k citizens A hundred or so citizens showing up to holler nonsense about data centers doesn't necessarily mean the whole city is against the data centers (as the link suggests.

3) Yes, the Data Centers are a good thing. They bring badly needed tax base and badly needed infrastructure without any of the pathologies critics allege a to be articles of faith. The new ones do not use significantly more water than other industrial uses like paper, cardboard, or food & beverage factories. While it is true they create less jobs than those kinds of industrial uses, it is equally true that they vastly outclass those industrial uses in creation of tax base. so they do have a place in our growth plan. The noise in most of the new models will be in the 60db range, easily fitting existing industrial standards (i.e. the new ones are not remarkably noisy). And they are the cleanest industry imaginable. Metal racks housing metal clad servers full of inert plastic and metal circuit boards & memory chips. The raw materials come into the buildling in a wire (electrical cable); the finished product leaves in a wire (fiberoptic cable).

The hysterical claims made by opponents are really quite easy to debunk, assuming someone is interested int he truth.

The Luddites usually lose......


And still not a single link. Just name calling and acting like you know it all.

Provide a link. Prove your claims.
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EatMoreSalmon
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In reply to boognish_bear • 9:48p, 4/3/26
boognish_bear said:



Salt corrosion? How soon would the main housing of the center need replacing?
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Oldbear83
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In reply to cowboycwr • 9:55p, 4/3/26
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


But white rock said they are good!!! He hasn't provided one piece of evidence or one link despite numerous ones being provided to him but trust him!!!!! He deals with them all the time!!!! But again can't provide one link to a town that has seen these massive, yuge tax increases he talks of again despite evidence being shown of the DC getting massive tax breaks.

So trust him they are good!!!!!

1. the council probably had no choice in the matter. if someone buys a property and requests a permit for a use which squarely fits zoning and ordinance, government should not (and in most cases cannot) stop that use just because the citizens don't like it. In Tx, it is illegal for a water provider to refuse to issue a meter unless they are out of meters. The operative concept is that no one should be denied water because because they got crossways with the water provider. Same for corporate purchase of commercial property in a city. If their activity fits the zoning and ordinances, the city cannot refuse a building permit just because a bunch of citizens don't want it.

2. that link doesn't show what you think it shows. Festus MO has 12k citizens A hundred or so citizens showing up to holler nonsense about data centers doesn't necessarily mean the whole city is against the data centers (as the link suggests.

3) Yes, the Data Centers are a good thing. They bring badly needed tax base and badly needed infrastructure without any of the pathologies critics allege a to be articles of faith. The new ones do not use significantly more water than other industrial uses like paper, cardboard, or food & beverage factories. While it is true they create less jobs than those kinds of industrial uses, it is equally true that they vastly outclass those industrial uses in creation of tax base. so they do have a place in our growth plan. The noise in most of the new models will be in the 60db range, easily fitting existing industrial standards (i.e. the new ones are not remarkably noisy). And they are the cleanest industry imaginable. Metal racks housing metal clad servers full of inert plastic and metal circuit boards & memory chips. The raw materials come into the buildling in a wire (electrical cable); the finished product leaves in a wire (fiberoptic cable).

The hysterical claims made by opponents are really quite easy to debunk, assuming someone is interested int he truth.

The Luddites usually lose......


And still not a single link. Just name calling and acting like you know it all.

Provide a link. Prove your claims.

He's probably just waiting for Grok to produce a cool-sounding report for him.
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boognish_bear
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1:35p, 4/4/26
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5:26p, 4/4/26
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In reply to boognish_bear • 8:17p, 4/4/26
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.

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In reply to cowboycwr • 8:25p, 4/4/26
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.



From Claude fwiw:

The figures vary slightly depending on the source and phase, but here's what's known:

Project Matador covers 7,570 acres in the Texas Panhandle according to Fermi America's own website (their most current figure). That works out to roughly 11.8 square miles.

Earlier reporting cited the campus spanning 5,769 acres , which is about 9 square miles likely an earlier phase figure.

The data center capacity itself is planned at 18 million square feet of AI computing space.
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7:15p, 4/6/26
Hope there is a human with final sign off rights

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7:31p, 4/6/26
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In reply to cowboycwr • 7:37p, 4/6/26
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.
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8:57p, 4/6/26
...
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cowboycwr
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In reply to boognish_bear • 10:04p, 4/6/26
boognish_bear said:


I doubt this is accurate. Unless this is all executives over the age of 55 and they have a secretary that writes/types almost everything for them.
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In reply to whiterock • 10:06p, 4/6/26
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to cowboycwr • 5:18a, 4/7/26
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.
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boognish_bear
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8:17p, 4/7/26
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EatMoreSalmon
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 9:21p, 4/7/26
FLBear5630 said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.


Was curious and found this article about the data center proposed for Fort Worth near Benbrook area.

https://fortworthreport.org/2026/03/31/enough-concern-today-1b-data-center-stalls-city-residents-raise-questions-about-tax-break/

Financial numbers from the article.
"Planned near the intersection of Interstate 20 and FM 2871 near Benbrook, the data center's tax break would cost Fort Worth $16 million in property taxes but bring in $47 million over the life of the agreement, according to city documents. "

Also found this to compare to active tarrant county abatements.

https://www.tarrantcountytx.gov/content/dam/main/OpenBooks/transparencystarsfy23/EconomicDevelopmentSpreadsheet(2).pdf
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boognish_bear
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9:51p, 4/7/26

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In reply to EatMoreSalmon • 9:52p, 4/7/26
EatMoreSalmon said:
FLBear5630 said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.


Was curious and found this article about the data center proposed for Fort Worth near Benbrook area.

https://fortworthreport.org/2026/03/31/enough-concern-today-1b-data-center-stalls-city-residents-raise-questions-about-tax-break/

Financial numbers from the article.
"Planned near the intersection of Interstate 20 and FM 2871 near Benbrook, the data center's tax break would cost Fort Worth $16 million in property taxes but bring in $47 million over the life of the agreement, according to city documents. "

Also found this to compare to active tarrant county abatements.

https://www.tarrantcountytx.gov/content/dam/main/OpenBooks/transparencystarsfy23/EconomicDevelopmentSpreadsheet(2).pdf


That are has a lot of housing construction. A data center doesn't seem like a good idea there. Especially if the complaints over them creating a constant him or noise is accurate.
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FLBear5630
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In reply to cowboycwr • 4:05a, 4/8/26

I agree, location seems strange.

Dont get me wrong, sometimes they are good deals, like any development.

I find the article interesting calling out access to I 20, if zoned insustriel I would think the site was more value to a transport company rather than a data center. Something like a distribution center could use ez on/off for heavy vehicles, it there is a spur even better.
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whiterock
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In reply to cowboycwr • 6:08a, 4/8/26
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.
Trump has issued an executive order requiring it.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.
Not my job to provide you links to things you should already know.

Most of the data centers in operation today were nestled into available space in urban areas. Quite a bit smaller units, on average, compared to those in the coming wave. We're talking things that fit into existing commercial and industrial parks. Some, particularly those focused on bitcoin, can fit into existing office buildings.

The next wave is quite a bit different. Partly, it's because a high percentage of available urban sites & infrastructure has already been occupied. Secondly, there is a need for the efficiencies of the "hyperscale DC." So what you will tend to see in the new DCs that have just finished or are just starting up is DCs looking for large tracts of land (500-1500 acres....by definition rural areas) and then bringing the needed infrastructure to the site. That creates a defacto new industrial park. People all around it can tap into the new infrastructure (as long as local officials plan well). Just look at the projects you see, and you will see most of them fitting that basic template. They're locating in places fenced in barbed wire, that have very light duty rural roads, and are in small water systems with only a few hundred meters. (but is close to other more expensive infrastructure - electrical transmission lines & transformer stations, large/long rights of way already in place.)

The DC model itself has changed, too. Trial & error. Emphasis now is on quieter, dryer, self-generated. Virginia is a leader in the civil planning. They've got several large new DCs nestled in between housing subdivisions and golf courses. Driving thru it....you'd know there were large buildings back behind the trees, but would have no idea it was a DC.

No rivers have gone dry because of DCs. Water, you see, is a cycle. DCs release every drop they use back into the environment as water vapor, which will fall somewhere where it will flow again to collection point to be reused by plants, animals, and humans. That's basic elementary school knowledge. The new phase of DCs are not much more water-consumptive than garden variety industrial operations. And when you examine the dollars of tax base created per gallon of water, you quickly see DCs absolutely crushing all other industrial operations, by like 10x or more. (and I would expect that ratio to climb, as DCs get more and more efficient with water use).

No DCs have polluted land, air, or water. They are on the cleanest end of industrial operations. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The machinery is metal boxes containing circuit boards of inert plastics and metals connected by electrical wiring. Just nothing there capable of contaminating anything.

and on and on and on...... There's just not a lot of substance behind the allegations. But people believe what they want to believe. If you want to educate yourself, start here:
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-sector/our-insights/the-data-center-balance-how-us-states-can-navigate-the-opportunities-and-challenges
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cowboycwr
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In reply to whiterock • 10:12a, 4/8/26
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.
Trump has issued an executive order requiring it.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.
Not my job to provide you links to things you should already know.

Most of the data centers in operation today were nestled into available space in urban areas. Quite a bit smaller units, on average, compared to those in the coming wave. We're talking things that fit into existing commercial and industrial parks. Some, particularly those focused on bitcoin, can fit into existing office buildings.

The next wave is quite a bit different. Partly, it's because a high percentage of available urban sites & infrastructure has already been occupied. Secondly, there is a need for the efficiencies of the "hyperscale DC." So what you will tend to see in the new DCs that have just finished or are just starting up is DCs looking for large tracts of land (500-1500 acres....by definition rural areas) and then bringing the needed infrastructure to the site. That creates a defacto new industrial park. People all around it can tap into the new infrastructure (as long as local officials plan well). Just look at the projects you see, and you will see most of them fitting that basic template. They're locating in places fenced in barbed wire, that have very light duty rural roads, and are in small water systems with only a few hundred meters. (but is close to other more expensive infrastructure - electrical transmission lines & transformer stations, large/long rights of way already in place.)

The DC model itself has changed, too. Trial & error. Emphasis now is on quieter, dryer, self-generated. Virginia is a leader in the civil planning. They've got several large new DCs nestled in between housing subdivisions and golf courses. Driving thru it....you'd know there were large buildings back behind the trees, but would have no idea it was a DC.

No rivers have gone dry because of DCs. Water, you see, is a cycle. DCs release every drop they use back into the environment as water vapor, which will fall somewhere where it will flow again to collection point to be reused by plants, animals, and humans. That's basic elementary school knowledge. The new phase of DCs are not much more water-consumptive than garden variety industrial operations. And when you examine the dollars of tax base created per gallon of water, you quickly see DCs absolutely crushing all other industrial operations, by like 10x or more. (and I would expect that ratio to climb, as DCs get more and more efficient with water use).

No DCs have polluted land, air, or water. They are on the cleanest end of industrial operations. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The machinery is metal boxes containing circuit boards of inert plastics and metals connected by electrical wiring. Just nothing there capable of contaminating anything.

and on and on and on...... There's just not a lot of substance behind the allegations. But people believe what they want to believe. If you want to educate yourself, start here:
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-sector/our-insights/the-data-center-balance-how-us-states-can-navigate-the-opportunities-and-challenges

Yes it is your job to provide links. When you make claims you need to back them up. That is how it works. You don't do that because the links don't exist.

But you continue to ignore the things you can't argue against, even after I have pointed it out to you multiple times, like the water pollution posted about in this thread.

What is really funny is you claim it isn't your job to provide links...... in a post where you finally give a link.

But of course it is nothing more than propaganda put out by a data center company about how great they are.

Your argument that the water is returned is just stupid. yes the water evaporates and eventually falls somewhere else. But to claim it won't run the river dry or drain a pond, lake, etc. is stupid and fails to address reality. There have been many rivers and lakes drained due to this type of thinking with water for agriculture. Heck look at the disappearance of an entire Sea for drastic evidence of this.

Provide links or just stop with your claims. The evidence has been shown to you that they do none of what you say and all you come back with it the child like argument of "yeah huh"

Provide links
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boognish_bear
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11:02a, 4/8/26
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whiterock
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In reply to cowboycwr • 3:36p, 4/8/26
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.
Trump has issued an executive order requiring it.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.
Not my job to provide you links to things you should already know.

Most of the data centers in operation today were nestled into available space in urban areas. Quite a bit smaller units, on average, compared to those in the coming wave. We're talking things that fit into existing commercial and industrial parks. Some, particularly those focused on bitcoin, can fit into existing office buildings.

The next wave is quite a bit different. Partly, it's because a high percentage of available urban sites & infrastructure has already been occupied. Secondly, there is a need for the efficiencies of the "hyperscale DC." So what you will tend to see in the new DCs that have just finished or are just starting up is DCs looking for large tracts of land (500-1500 acres....by definition rural areas) and then bringing the needed infrastructure to the site. That creates a defacto new industrial park. People all around it can tap into the new infrastructure (as long as local officials plan well). Just look at the projects you see, and you will see most of them fitting that basic template. They're locating in places fenced in barbed wire, that have very light duty rural roads, and are in small water systems with only a few hundred meters. (but is close to other more expensive infrastructure - electrical transmission lines & transformer stations, large/long rights of way already in place.)

The DC model itself has changed, too. Trial & error. Emphasis now is on quieter, dryer, self-generated. Virginia is a leader in the civil planning. They've got several large new DCs nestled in between housing subdivisions and golf courses. Driving thru it....you'd know there were large buildings back behind the trees, but would have no idea it was a DC.

No rivers have gone dry because of DCs. Water, you see, is a cycle. DCs release every drop they use back into the environment as water vapor, which will fall somewhere where it will flow again to collection point to be reused by plants, animals, and humans. That's basic elementary school knowledge. The new phase of DCs are not much more water-consumptive than garden variety industrial operations. And when you examine the dollars of tax base created per gallon of water, you quickly see DCs absolutely crushing all other industrial operations, by like 10x or more. (and I would expect that ratio to climb, as DCs get more and more efficient with water use).

No DCs have polluted land, air, or water. They are on the cleanest end of industrial operations. The raw materials enter the plant in a wire (electrical cable). The finished product leaves the plant in a wire (fiber optic cable). The machinery is metal boxes containing circuit boards of inert plastics and metals connected by electrical wiring. Just nothing there capable of contaminating anything.

and on and on and on...... There's just not a lot of substance behind the allegations. But people believe what they want to believe. If you want to educate yourself, start here:
https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/public-sector/our-insights/the-data-center-balance-how-us-states-can-navigate-the-opportunities-and-challenges

Yes it is your job to provide links. When you make claims you need to back them up. That is how it works. You don't do that because the links don't exist.

But you continue to ignore the things you can't argue against, even after I have pointed it out to you multiple times, like the water pollution posted about in this thread.

What is really funny is you claim it isn't your job to provide links...... in a post where you finally give a link.

But of course it is nothing more than propaganda put out by a data center company about how great they are.

Your argument that the water is returned is just stupid. yes the water evaporates and eventually falls somewhere else. But to claim it won't run the river dry or drain a pond, lake, etc. is stupid and fails to address reality. There have been many rivers and lakes drained due to this type of thinking with water for agriculture. Heck look at the disappearance of an entire Sea for drastic evidence of this.

Provide links or just stop with your claims. The evidence has been shown to you that they do none of what you say and all you come back with it the child like argument of "yeah huh"

Provide links

More disinformation. Here's a good one for you to educate yourself.
https://www.fwpcoa.org/content.aspx?page_id=5&club_id=859275&item_id=130961

You have provided no links to any widespread or even localized data center water pollution. (because there is none). There is no data center superfund site. They are less risky pollution sources than most other industrial operations. Totally contrived crisis.
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whiterock
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In reply to FLBear5630 • 3:40p, 4/8/26
FLBear5630 said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.

No, they're don't have negative ROI. We will be giving no abatements. And the DCs will be paying for all the infrastructure.

We have a $10m annual budget. We will have zero debt involved with the DC. We estimate tax receipts from the DC to be approx $50m (before franchise fees). Not even you could F that up.
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whiterock
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In reply to cowboycwr • 4:24p, 4/8/26
cowboycwr said:
EatMoreSalmon said:
FLBear5630 said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.


Was curious and found this article about the data center proposed for Fort Worth near Benbrook area.

https://fortworthreport.org/2026/03/31/enough-concern-today-1b-data-center-stalls-city-residents-raise-questions-about-tax-break/

Financial numbers from the article.
"Planned near the intersection of Interstate 20 and FM 2871 near Benbrook, the data center's tax break would cost Fort Worth $16 million in property taxes but bring in $47 million over the life of the agreement, according to city documents. "

Also found this to compare to active tarrant county abatements.

https://www.tarrantcountytx.gov/content/dam/main/OpenBooks/transparencystarsfy23/EconomicDevelopmentSpreadsheet(2).pdf


That are has a lot of housing construction. A data center doesn't seem like a good idea there. Especially if the complaints over them creating a constant him or noise is accurate.

Northern VA has some developments where DCs, residences, and golf courses are all nestled together. Loudon Co has a 60db noise limit on DCs at property boundary. That's like an electric toothbrush. At the boundary of the property.

It's easy to make DCs quiet. It just costs the DCs a lot more in investment to make it so.
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boognish_bear
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5:11p, 4/8/26
Seems to be some growing backlash against AI and data centers

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FLBear5630
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In reply to whiterock • 5:35p, 4/8/26
whiterock said:
FLBear5630 said:
cowboycwr said:
whiterock said:
cowboycwr said:
boognish_bear said:


The tweet and video don't match. One says 9 square miles and the other says 5.


who cares how much energy it uses. As long as they produce their own energy, there's no downside. It's just more tax base, more jobs, more economic growth, etc.....

Our tech companies want more data centers. They will go to wherever, whomever builds them. Better to build them here.


If they build their own energy and water then yes. But so far the one already built haven't.

And the job thing and tax base has already been shown to you to be false claims. Provide a link if you have evidence of them providing tax base and jobs to an area. As in jobs to the locals already there. No a handful of jobs that have to be brought in. Provide links.


You dont have to speculate look at Virginia's experience.

Info Centers are very similar to the gambling surge in the 90's. Local areas try to control them, but the investment becomes so big that the tail ultimately wags the dog. In order for them to stay, the community will end up giving whatever they ask. Gambling was operations hours and transportation, Data Centers will be water and utilities.

With the tax breaks, subsidies and low employment data centers have a negative ROI
for local communities. Communities are rethinking whether they are worth the cost, they typically require subsidies and improvements to come.

No, they're don't have negative ROI. We will be giving no abatements. And the DCs will be paying for all the infrastructure.

We have a $10m annual budget. We will have zero debt involved with the DC. We estimate tax receipts from the DC to be approx $50m (before franchise fees). Not even you could F that up.

Let's see what actually gets build, the cost and the ROI. Before that, what you posted is marketing...
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