Harrison Bergeron said:

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Have the hostages been released?

---

I don't think so.

Robert Wilson said:

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Harrison Bergeron said:

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Have the hostages been released?

---

I don't think so.

---

You mean these hostages?

Israel must end mass incommunicado detention and torture of Palestinians from Gaza

Sam Lowry said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Have the hostages been released?

---

I don't think so.

---

You mean these hostages?

Israel must end mass incommunicado detention and torture of Palestinians from Gaza

---

Amnesty International? Couldn't your find any group more pathetic and needy than these guys

These guys have been stealing from American taxpayers via their NGO and even creating these fake photos for years

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/02/amnesty-international-ai-generated-images-criticism

Robert Wilson said:

---

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Have the hostages been released?

---

I don't think so.

---

I guess Hamas hates Jews more than it cares about its people.

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/05/palestine-hamas-security-services-must-stop-targeting-protesters-in-reprisal-and-respect-freedom-of-peaceful-assembly-in-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde210022009en.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/mde210062006en.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/


And after all that:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2023-003471_EN.html

Harrison Bergeron said:

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Mothra said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Wade said:

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Hypothetically - if you did trust humanitarian organizations that state formula for babies is being limited to a degree that is leading to death - would that be a problem? Same for genocide - if Doctors Without Borders is not blowing their entire history of goodwill to fabricate a story when nothing untoward is happening - would it matter?

Doctors Without Borders
https://www.doctorswithoutborders.org/latest/our-response-israel-gaza-war

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna215699

Pictures

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2025/07/world/photos-starvation-in-gaza-intl-cnnphotos/

What 7 nuclear bombs worth of explosives look like.

https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-destruction-satellite-photos-90093bca75d28af6193c21b9d1b5eaed

---

More than 100 organizations have raised the alarm. I'm sure we'll be told they all work for Hamas.

Quote:

---

Aid Groups Blame Israel's Gaza Restrictions for 'Mass Starvation'
By Matthew Mpoke Bigg
July 23, 2025

More than 100 aid agencies and rights groups, including Save the Children and Doctors Without Borders, warned on Wednesday that "mass starvation" was spreading across Gaza, adding to calls for Israel to lift restrictions on humanitarian aid to the besieged enclave.

The joint statement is the latest attempt to draw attention to a growing hunger crisis in Gaza. It was released after the European Union and at least 28 governments, including Israeli allies like Britain, France and Canada, on Monday condemned the "drip feeding of aid" and said that civilian suffering had "reached new depths."

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/23/world/middleeast/aid-groups-gaza-starvation.html

---

---

Paywall.

I suppose we want to trust the NYT only when it fits within our agenda and not for instance when it talks about the number of Ukrainian civilians killed by Russian strikes or apportions blame to Russia.

---

The problem is that organizations we naively assumed are apolitical have turned out to be political. That's why I don't trust what "experts say" and rely on primary research. We can literally see Hamas stealing aid, but an "expert" claims it is just Israel. There is a reason Hamas Harry picks and chooses the "experts" that support his claim ... just like he did during Covid while ignoring primary reasearch.

---

Don't say this about many people because often times it's cliched and not true, but I truly believe Sam is a guy who hates both his country and Israel. He hates them so badly that for him, the despots, tyrants and mass murderers residing in Russia, Iran, and Gaza (and even the authoritarians in our own govt) are the actual good guys. Not sure what happened that warped his mind so severely.

Article on the emancipated hostage being forced to dig his own grave by the terrorists responsible for all of the misery in Gaza:

https://notthebee.com/takes/when-evil-buries-the-innocent-alive-silence-is-not-an-option-for-christians

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

It's not genocide because you're conflating a war against a militant enemy with a campaign to destroy a people. That distinction matters legally and morally. Genocide requires intent to destroy a group as such. Civilian suffering, starvation, and displacement are horrific, but they are also tragically common features of war, not unique proof of genocidal intent. What's happening is an ugly, asymmetrical and costly war, but not the systematic eradication of a people.

---

Granting your false narrative that the starvation is accidental, then yes. But that was the opposite of your point.

---

You do realize that siege tactics like cutting off supplies to pressure a surrender have been a common part of warfare for centuries, right? That doesn't make it genocide. It makes it war, with all its ugly strategic calculus. In this case they aren't even cutting it off, they're being cautious with what they allow in.

---

Siege tactics were typically used against fortified cities and strongholds, not whole territories.

There's no need to be "cautious" about what goes into Gaza. If Hamas is taking advantage, it's mainly because people are paying $100 for a few pounds of flour or a gallon of fuel. Flooding the strip with aid would solve both problems overnight if that's what Israel really wanted to do.

---

Cities vs territories is an academic not a tactical difference. And Israel is concerned with the weapons caches they've found in aid and fuel trucks, not price gouging.

One thing is certain, this isn't genocidal starvation.

---

Genocide isn't defined by tactics. And weapons smuggling is no reason to cut off aid. That's why they have inspections. This would be obvious to everyone if our enemies were the ones doing it.

---

You are the one arguing tactics defining Israel's genocide, I posited the lack of genocidal intent multiple posts ago.

The aid wasn't cutoff. It was slowed due to, checks notes…inspections.

---

You argued that if Gaza is a genocide, so is any siege. I've explained why it isn't. Lest we forget, that doesn't mean sieges involving civilians aren't war crimes.

Inspections don't necessitate reducing the number of aid distribution centers from 400 to four, locating them in active combat zones, opening them in the middle of the night, on an hour's notice, for five or ten minutes at a time, and shooting people as they're coming and going. To call that a "slowdown" verges on the Orwellian. It's all further evidence of genocidal intent.

---

That's not what I argued. The point is that not every wartime hardship, even horrific ones, constitutes genocide.

And Orwellian? Mislabeling grim wartime logistics decisions as genocide to fit a political narrative feels far closer to Orwell than recognizing the tragic reality of war for what it is. Twisting every instance of deprivation, however awful, into evidence of extermination is exactly the kind of language manipulation Orwell warned about.

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2025/05/palestine-hamas-security-services-must-stop-targeting-protesters-in-reprisal-and-respect-freedom-of-peaceful-assembly-in-gaza/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/location/middle-east-and-north-africa/middle-east/palestine-state-of/report-palestine-state-of/

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/mde210022009en.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/mde210062006en.pdf

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2015/05/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summarily-killed-by-hamas-forces-during-2014-conflict/


And after all that:

https://www.europarl.europa.eu/doceo/document/P-9-2023-003471_EN.html

---

They critique both sides, and rightly so.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

It's not genocide because you're conflating a war against a militant enemy with a campaign to destroy a people. That distinction matters legally and morally. Genocide requires intent to destroy a group as such. Civilian suffering, starvation, and displacement are horrific, but they are also tragically common features of war, not unique proof of genocidal intent. What's happening is an ugly, asymmetrical and costly war, but not the systematic eradication of a people.

---

Granting your false narrative that the starvation is accidental, then yes. But that was the opposite of your point.

---

You do realize that siege tactics like cutting off supplies to pressure a surrender have been a common part of warfare for centuries, right? That doesn't make it genocide. It makes it war, with all its ugly strategic calculus. In this case they aren't even cutting it off, they're being cautious with what they allow in.

---

Siege tactics were typically used against fortified cities and strongholds, not whole territories.

There's no need to be "cautious" about what goes into Gaza. If Hamas is taking advantage, it's mainly because people are paying $100 for a few pounds of flour or a gallon of fuel. Flooding the strip with aid would solve both problems overnight if that's what Israel really wanted to do.

---

Cities vs territories is an academic not a tactical difference. And Israel is concerned with the weapons caches they've found in aid and fuel trucks, not price gouging.

One thing is certain, this isn't genocidal starvation.

---

Genocide isn't defined by tactics. And weapons smuggling is no reason to cut off aid. That's why they have inspections. This would be obvious to everyone if our enemies were the ones doing it.

---

You are the one arguing tactics defining Israel's genocide, I posited the lack of genocidal intent multiple posts ago.

The aid wasn't cutoff. It was slowed due to, checks notes…inspections.

---

You argued that if Gaza is a genocide, so is any siege. I've explained why it isn't. Lest we forget, that doesn't mean sieges involving civilians aren't war crimes.

Inspections don't necessitate reducing the number of aid distribution centers from 400 to four, locating them in active combat zones, opening them in the middle of the night, on an hour's notice, for five or ten minutes at a time, and shooting people as they're coming and going. To call that a "slowdown" verges on the Orwellian. It's all further evidence of genocidal intent.

---

That's not what I argued. The point is that not every wartime hardship, even horrific ones, constitutes genocide.

And Orwellian? Mislabeling grim wartime logistics decisions as genocide to fit a political narrative feels far closer to Orwell than recognizing the tragic reality of war for what it is. Twisting every instance of deprivation, however awful, into evidence of extermination is exactly the kind of language manipulation Orwell warned about.

---

Every perpetrator of genocide sells it as a "grim reality of war." It's as standard as the fries that come with your happy meal. Neutral observers on the ground are all saying otherwise.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

It's not genocide because you're conflating a war against a militant enemy with a campaign to destroy a people. That distinction matters legally and morally. Genocide requires intent to destroy a group as such. Civilian suffering, starvation, and displacement are horrific, but they are also tragically common features of war, not unique proof of genocidal intent. What's happening is an ugly, asymmetrical and costly war, but not the systematic eradication of a people.

---

Granting your false narrative that the starvation is accidental, then yes. But that was the opposite of your point.

---

You do realize that siege tactics like cutting off supplies to pressure a surrender have been a common part of warfare for centuries, right? That doesn't make it genocide. It makes it war, with all its ugly strategic calculus. In this case they aren't even cutting it off, they're being cautious with what they allow in.

---

Siege tactics were typically used against fortified cities and strongholds, not whole territories.

There's no need to be "cautious" about what goes into Gaza. If Hamas is taking advantage, it's mainly because people are paying $100 for a few pounds of flour or a gallon of fuel. Flooding the strip with aid would solve both problems overnight if that's what Israel really wanted to do.

---

Cities vs territories is an academic not a tactical difference. And Israel is concerned with the weapons caches they've found in aid and fuel trucks, not price gouging.

One thing is certain, this isn't genocidal starvation.

---

Genocide isn't defined by tactics. And weapons smuggling is no reason to cut off aid. That's why they have inspections. This would be obvious to everyone if our enemies were the ones doing it.

---

You are the one arguing tactics defining Israel's genocide, I posited the lack of genocidal intent multiple posts ago.

The aid wasn't cutoff. It was slowed due to, checks notes…inspections.

---

You argued that if Gaza is a genocide, so is any siege. I've explained why it isn't. Lest we forget, that doesn't mean sieges involving civilians aren't war crimes.

Inspections don't necessitate reducing the number of aid distribution centers from 400 to four, locating them in active combat zones, opening them in the middle of the night, on an hour's notice, for five or ten minutes at a time, and shooting people as they're coming and going. To call that a "slowdown" verges on the Orwellian. It's all further evidence of genocidal intent.

---

That's not what I argued. The point is that not every wartime hardship, even horrific ones, constitutes genocide.

And Orwellian? Mislabeling grim wartime logistics decisions as genocide to fit a political narrative feels far closer to Orwell than recognizing the tragic reality of war for what it is. Twisting every instance of deprivation, however awful, into evidence of extermination is exactly the kind of language manipulation Orwell warned about.

---

Every perpetrator of genocide sells it as a "grim reality of war." It's as standard as the fries that come with your happy meal. Neutral observers on the ground are all saying otherwise.

---

Neutral…lol

I've seen genocide up close. We ain't close. You want to argue for war crimes? Be my guest.

One for the "pro-lifers."

Have the hostages been released?

Who started this war and how?

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

It's not genocide because you're conflating a war against a militant enemy with a campaign to destroy a people. That distinction matters legally and morally. Genocide requires intent to destroy a group as such. Civilian suffering, starvation, and displacement are horrific, but they are also tragically common features of war, not unique proof of genocidal intent. What's happening is an ugly, asymmetrical and costly war, but not the systematic eradication of a people.

---

Granting your false narrative that the starvation is accidental, then yes. But that was the opposite of your point.

---

You do realize that siege tactics like cutting off supplies to pressure a surrender have been a common part of warfare for centuries, right? That doesn't make it genocide. It makes it war, with all its ugly strategic calculus. In this case they aren't even cutting it off, they're being cautious with what they allow in.

---

Siege tactics were typically used against fortified cities and strongholds, not whole territories.

There's no need to be "cautious" about what goes into Gaza. If Hamas is taking advantage, it's mainly because people are paying $100 for a few pounds of flour or a gallon of fuel. Flooding the strip with aid would solve both problems overnight if that's what Israel really wanted to do.

---

Cities vs territories is an academic not a tactical difference. And Israel is concerned with the weapons caches they've found in aid and fuel trucks, not price gouging.

One thing is certain, this isn't genocidal starvation.

---

Genocide isn't defined by tactics. And weapons smuggling is no reason to cut off aid. That's why they have inspections. This would be obvious to everyone if our enemies were the ones doing it.

---

You are the one arguing tactics defining Israel's genocide, I posited the lack of genocidal intent multiple posts ago.

The aid wasn't cutoff. It was slowed due to, checks notes…inspections.

---

You argued that if Gaza is a genocide, so is any siege. I've explained why it isn't. Lest we forget, that doesn't mean sieges involving civilians aren't war crimes.

Inspections don't necessitate reducing the number of aid distribution centers from 400 to four, locating them in active combat zones, opening them in the middle of the night, on an hour's notice, for five or ten minutes at a time, and shooting people as they're coming and going. To call that a "slowdown" verges on the Orwellian. It's all further evidence of genocidal intent.

---

That's not what I argued. The point is that not every wartime hardship, even horrific ones, constitutes genocide.

And Orwellian? Mislabeling grim wartime logistics decisions as genocide to fit a political narrative feels far closer to Orwell than recognizing the tragic reality of war for what it is. Twisting every instance of deprivation, however awful, into evidence of extermination is exactly the kind of language manipulation Orwell warned about.

---

Every perpetrator of genocide sells it as a "grim reality of war." It's as standard as the fries that come with your happy meal. Neutral observers on the ground are all saying otherwise.

---

The irony is, this is what you essentially said when I pointed out how many innocent Ukrainian civilians were getting killed in Russia's unprovoked invasion.

Guess it just depends on whose ox is getting gored.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

Of course he is. That's a "just war" in his book.

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

This is actual fact Sam. Please bear witness

https://secretldn.com/cheese-protects-against-death-science/

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

LOL the same lies and BS while you whine about your fake concerns for Gazans.

Have the hostages been released?

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

More bullsh from the Russian apologist...

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

Seems to me that most of Gaza has been destroyed. Isnt it going to need a total rebuild?

Assassin said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

Seems to me that most of Gaza has been destroyed. Isnt it going to need a total rebuild?

---

I don't know about most, but a lot sure has, and yes, it will have to be rebuilt because no Muslim countries will take Palestinians.

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

"Demolish" is an interesting choice of words. Russians consider Ukrainian history very much a part of their own. I don't see them using controlled demolitions to destroy thousands of buildings, including hospitals, churches, and schools, erasing every trace of indigenous culture, and posting selfies and videos online to celebrate it. Israel is doing all of these things.

The destruction you see in Ukraine is a result of combat. Defenses are set up in apartment buildings, factories, or any other place that provides an advantage. Those positions are attacked, and buildings are damaged or destroyed. It's just old-fashioned urban warfare. Not anything like the systematic destruction of Gaza.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

"Demolish" is an interesting choice of words. Russians consider Ukrainian history very much a part of their own. I don't see them using controlled demolitions to destroy thousands of buildings, including hospitals, churches, and schools, erasing every trace of indigenous culture, and posting selfies and videos online to celebrate it. Israel is doing all of these things.

The destruction you see in Ukraine is a result of combat. Defenses are set up in apartment buildings, factories, or any other place that provides an advantage. Those positions are attacked, and buildings are damaged or destroyed. It's just old-fashioned urban warfare. Not anything like the systematic destruction of Gaza.

---

Hamas uses far more "residential shields" than Ukraine does.

And Russia launching thousands of missiles into Kyiv and other civilian areas has no relation to urban combat.

sombear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

Seems to me that most of Gaza has been destroyed. Isnt it going to need a total rebuild?

---

I don't know about most, but a lot sure has, and yes, it will have to be rebuilt because no Muslim countries will take Palestinians.

---

60-80% of all buildings, over 90% of houses and schools, 80% of tree crops, 65% of greenhouses, and over 60% of medical facilities (with the rest badly damaged and barely functioning).

Harrison Bergeron said:

---

Have the hostages been released?

---

Have Izzy stopped killing thousands of innocent civilians? Izzy to invade and take over Gaza accosting the war criminals in Izzy govt! Eff them and cut them off

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

"Demolish" is an interesting choice of words. Russians consider Ukrainian history very much a part of their own. I don't see them using controlled demolitions to destroy thousands of buildings, including hospitals, churches, and schools, erasing every trace of indigenous culture, and posting selfies and videos online to celebrate it. Israel is doing all of these things.

The destruction you see in Ukraine is a result of combat. Defenses are set up in apartment buildings, factories, or any other place that provides an advantage. Those positions are attacked, and buildings are damaged or destroyed. It's just old-fashioned urban warfare. Not anything like the systematic destruction of Gaza.

---

Hamas uses far more "residential shields" than Ukraine does.

And Russia launching thousands of missiles into Kyiv and other civilian areas has no relation to urban combat.

---

There are plenty of military and dual-use targets in those areas.

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

"Demolish" is an interesting choice of words. Russians consider Ukrainian history very much a part of their own. I don't see them using controlled demolitions to destroy thousands of buildings, including hospitals, churches, and schools, erasing every trace of indigenous culture, and posting selfies and videos online to celebrate it. Israel is doing all of these things.

The destruction you see in Ukraine is a result of combat. Defenses are set up in apartment buildings, factories, or any other place that provides an advantage. Those positions are attacked, and buildings are damaged or destroyed. It's just old-fashioned urban warfare. Not anything like the systematic destruction of Gaza.

---

Hamas uses far more "residential shields" than Ukraine does.

And Russia launching thousands of missiles into Kyiv and other civilian areas has no relation to urban combat.

---

There are plenty of military and dual-use targets in those areas.

---

Are Hamas military tunnels "military and dual use targets?"

sombear said:

---

Assassin said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

Seems to me that most of Gaza has been destroyed. Isnt it going to need a total rebuild?

---

I don't know about most, but a lot sure has, and yes, it will have to be rebuilt because no Muslim countries will take Palestinians.

---

I read that. Says a lot about the Palestinians

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

sombear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

One for the "pro-lifers."

---

You still cool with Russia razing city after city in Ukraine and sending missiles at residential buildings on a daily basis?

---

The cases could hardly be more different. Like Israel, Russia issues evacuation orders before attacking a town. But unlike Gazans, the people of Ukraine aren't confined in an open air prison with nowhere to go. They can actually move freely to safety. And unlike the Israelis, the Russians don't bomb them while they're relocating.

There has been indiscriminate, or more often intentional, destruction of residential areas by the Zelensky government. One of the reasons Russia invaded was to protect the Russian population from such attacks. The last thing they want to do is kill the people of their newly acquired territory.

As for western Ukraine, the recent wave of attacks that Trump complained about is illustrative. Russia sent over 500 missiles and drones into cities across the country, killing a grand total of 1 (one) civilian. On the same day, Israelis gunned down dozens of unarmed Palestinians seeking food at aid distribution centers in Gaza. For all that our Ukrainian proxies have suffered, they are far better off than the victims of Israel's genocide.

---

Russia has killed thousands of innocent civilians, including women and children.

So demolishing historic cities is ok when most (not all) of its citizens are forced to leave?

---

"Demolish" is an interesting choice of words. Russians consider Ukrainian history very much a part of their own. I don't see them using controlled demolitions to destroy thousands of buildings, including hospitals, churches, and schools, erasing every trace of indigenous culture, and posting selfies and videos online to celebrate it. Israel is doing all of these things.

The destruction you see in Ukraine is a result of combat. Defenses are set up in apartment buildings, factories, or any other place that provides an advantage. Those positions are attacked, and buildings are damaged or destroyed. It's just old-fashioned urban warfare. Not anything like the systematic destruction of Gaza.

---

Hamas uses far more "residential shields" than Ukraine does.

And Russia launching thousands of missiles into Kyiv and other civilian areas has no relation to urban combat.

---

There are plenty of military and dual-use targets in those areas.

---

Are Hamas military tunnels "military and dual use targets?"

---

Excuse me, those are "Anti-zionist, love and support civilian transport only" tunnels.

People often don't understand how small Gaza is. It is about the size of the city of Lubbock. Not the city plus suburbs, just the city of Lubbock itself