Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

canoso said:

---

Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Israel's stated position is that it will not.

---

Silly me, I'd probably give that a shot in any event. I expect it might help, including with all us knuckle draggers around the world who at the moment think this is kinda their fault.

---

"International views of Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are much more negative than positive, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 24 countries conducted this spring."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/03/most-people-across-24-surveyed-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-netanyahu/

---

That's great. Imagine what kind of statistics people could summon if they surrendered and returned the hostages that they took almost 2 years ago.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

---

To quote the UN report on the October 7 attacks: "The unlawfulness of the Israeli occupation does not justify unlawful action by Palestinians in resistance. Equally, unlawful action by Palestinians opposing the occupation does not justify unlawful action by Israel."

This is a very simple concept understood by civilized people around the world. It's the knuckle-draggers on both sides who reject it. Today you're untroubled because your knuckle-draggers are running rampant. Next time the tables turn, you'll be first to lament the violation of human rights.

Way too many posters here have the same mindset as Hamas, but I'm not one of them.

---

Those are a bunch of great platitudes. If only you could be appointed czar for kindness and the flourishing of all peoples in the middle east I'm sure you would be a wonderful and fair administrator. I do have empathy for those folks, but it does not commandeer my entire frontal lobe. Nor would it if the tables were turned.

---

If "play stupid games, we'll torture your children" is empathy, I would hate to see you in an apathetic mood. But credit where credit is due...after seven pages you're the first to even say the word.

---

Ha, well I could certainly disagree with your framing, but then this would go on forever.

And no, that punny illustration was not intentional, but it is kinda apt.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

You know how I know this isn't a genocide? Because the Palestinians still exist. In fact, prior to them attacking Israel in October 2023, their population has been steadily growing. Israel has a VASTLY superior military. If they wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, they could have done it 100 times over and October 7th would have given them all the cover they needed to swiftly respond with devastating force. Yet they haven't. If this is a genocide, Israel sucks at it.

As has been said many times, if Hamas laid down their weapons, this war would be over tomorrow. If Israel laid down their weapons, there would be no more Israel. It is a sad reality that innocent people die during war. Some of the innocent people who have died as a result of this war have been Americans. But Hamas started this war and Israel has every right to defend itself. One of these countries is led by a democratically elected government. The other is led by an international terrorist organization. Much like World War 2, there is a clear right side of this war and there is a clear wrong side. Some of you educated people on this site are attempting to make a case for the wrong side.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel has shown great restraint up until this point. I am firmly of the belief they would be doing the entire world a favor if they eliminated every member of Hamas and moved right on to Hezbollah.

I stand with Israel and it isn't a hard choice. No matter how much terrorist propaganda you morons present to the board.

FormerFlash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

You know how I know this isn't a genocide? Because the Palestinians still exist. In fact, prior to them attacking Israel in October 2023, their population has been steadily growing. Israel has a VASTLY superior military. If they wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, they could have done it 100 times over and October 7th would have given them all the cover they needed to swiftly respond with devastating force. Yet they haven't. If this is a genocide, Israel sucks at it.

As has been said many times, if Hamas laid down their weapons, this war would be over tomorrow. If Israel laid down their weapons, there would be no more Israel. It is a sad reality that innocent people die during war. Some of the innocent people who have died as a result of this war have been Americans. But Hamas started this war and Israel has every right to defend itself. One of these countries is led by a democratically elected government. The other is led by an international terrorist organization. Much like World War 2, there is a clear right side of this war and there is a clear wrong side. Some of you educated people on this site are attempting to make a case for the wrong side.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel has shown great restraint up until this point. I am firmly of the belief they would be doing the entire world a favor if they eliminated every member of Hamas and moved right on to Hezbollah.

I stand with Israel and it isn't a hard choice. No matter how much terrorist propaganda you morons present to the board.

---

Yes we know that Palestine is a democracy bc they elected Hamas and we know that Israel is a terrorist state that uses blackmail and bribery over our country.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

No **** Hamas Harry. Oct. 7 is why everyone is so outraged.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

canoso said:

---

Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Israel's stated position is that it will not.

---

Silly me, I'd probably give that a shot in any event. I expect it might help, including with all us knuckle draggers around the world who at the moment think this is kinda their fault.

---

"International views of Israel and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu are much more negative than positive, according to a Pew Research Center survey of 24 countries conducted this spring."

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/06/03/most-people-across-24-surveyed-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-netanyahu/

---

That's great. Imagine what kind of statistics people could summon if they surrendered and returned the hostages that they took almost 2 years ago.

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

---

To quote the UN report on the October 7 attacks: "The unlawfulness of the Israeli occupation does not justify unlawful action by Palestinians in resistance. Equally, unlawful action by Palestinians opposing the occupation does not justify unlawful action by Israel."

This is a very simple concept understood by civilized people around the world. It's the knuckle-draggers on both sides who reject it. Today you're untroubled because your knuckle-draggers are running rampant. Next time the tables turn, you'll be first to lament the violation of human rights.

Way too many posters here have the same mindset as Hamas. I'm not among them.

---

All you quote is Hamas, Harry.

What Sam is missing is that if Isreal wanted to do genocide they could do it in 1 day. I.e. with a NUKE.

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

canoso said:

---

Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

FormerFlash said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

You know how I know this isn't a genocide? Because the Palestinians still exist. In fact, prior to them attacking Israel in October 2023, their population has been steadily growing. Israel has a VASTLY superior military. If they wanted to wipe out the Palestinians, they could have done it 100 times over and October 7th would have given them all the cover they needed to swiftly respond with devastating force. Yet they haven't. If this is a genocide, Israel sucks at it.

As has been said many times, if Hamas laid down their weapons, this war would be over tomorrow. If Israel laid down their weapons, there would be no more Israel. It is a sad reality that innocent people die during war. Some of the innocent people who have died as a result of this war have been Americans. But Hamas started this war and Israel has every right to defend itself. One of these countries is led by a democratically elected government. The other is led by an international terrorist organization. Much like World War 2, there is a clear right side of this war and there is a clear wrong side. Some of you educated people on this site are attempting to make a case for the wrong side.

As far as I'm concerned, Israel has shown great restraint up until this point. I am firmly of the belief they would be doing the entire world a favor if they eliminated every member of Hamas and moved right on to Hezbollah.

I stand with Israel and it isn't a hard choice. No matter how much terrorist propaganda you morons present to the board.

---

You're having a different conversation. Making up the boogey man hiding under the bed. Nobody is saying Israel is the bad guy in the war. Just that innocents dont deserve to starve to death, when a just war takes place.

I dont agree with all the Israeli actions but very much support their desire to exterminate Hamas. I also support innocents' right to eat food and live. Change my mind, go ahead. If you can tell me why Israel killing terrorists necessitates mass starvation, I will listen.

ScottS said:

---

What Sam is missing is that if Isreal wanted to do genocide they could do it in 1 day. I.e. with a NUKE.

---

That is laughable. Like saying if Russia really wanted to defeat Ukraine, they'd have used nukes.

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

canoso said:

---

Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

---

How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

canoso said:

---

Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

---

How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

---

Are you holding the 2.1m civilians of Gaza responsible for terrorism? I forget how easy it is to not care about mass death once the appropriate label is used. Palestinians are terrorists, and should all die, right? They deserve it? Voted for it?

Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

---

Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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canoso said:

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Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

---

So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

---

How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

---

Are you holding the 2.1m civilians of Gaza responsible for terrorism? I forget how easy it is to not care about mass death once the appropriate label is used. Palestinians are terrorists, and should all die, right? They deserve it? Voted for it?

---

Those are literal quotes from the Israelis in the Likud party (bibis party) and other zios like Randy Fine. They call them all vermin. They feel that way about the Christian Palestinians too.

ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

Sam Lowry said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Porteroso said:

---

EatMoreSalmon said:

---

Porteroso said:

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EatMoreSalmon said:

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Porteroso said:

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Israel is blocking aid, there is understandably major disruption to normal food procurement, and Israel has killed hundreds trying to get food, so many are afraid to go to the Israeli sites.

It seems the responsibility falls upon Israel to fix the situation. Most Gazans are not on Hamas' side, and it's one thing for them to be kicked out of their homes, and then their homes bombed, but now, to be starving to death, is a step too far for Israel.

---

What happened when international aid was attempted? Did the people of Gaza get the aid from the US built port? Yet you claim it is on Israel to rectify the starving in Gaza right now? Maybe when Hamas is no longer in control that could happen. The US couldn't even make it happen after great expense.
Did the allies send food and medical aid into axis countries while that war was being prosecuted? Not like you want Israel to do.

---

How are the starving people supposed to root out Hamas? Is that really your solution?

---

Is Hamas not starving, too? If not, why not?

Perhaps Hama should release all hostages.

---

I totally agree with you that Hamas is the ultimate culprit here. I'm not willing though to turn a blind eye towards mass starvation, just because there are bad guys out there.

Big fan of those in power stepping up to help the little guy, when it is so dire.

---

How would you safely deliver the food and keep it away from Hamas?

---

"There are decades of experience of how you design these operations to work in war zones. And the UN had a system, 400 feeding stations all embedded within the community so that you could use the support of the community or families to make sure there was minimal disruption. It wasn't enough but it was still something. Now what is happening with the Gaza Humanitarian Foundation is that not enough food is being provided. It's simply the rations are not enough. The essential food that children need is not there. The essential services like clean water, like sanitation, like shelter, like fuel for cooking, none of those are there." (Alex de Waal)

---

Oh yeah.
We all saw how well that worked in Somalia.
No more Black Hawk Down incidents, thank you very much.
Let the freaking muslims take care of their own.

Assassin said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

---

You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

---

You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

---

I have absolutely no problem with a good argument; you used to make them when I first came back in November. Since then, you've been on a massive downslide. Did something happen to you to make your mind go into this pit of despair?

Porteroso said:

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ScottS said:

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What Sam is missing is that if Isreal wanted to do genocide they could do it in 1 day. I.e. with a NUKE.

---

That is laughable. Like saying if Russia really wanted to defeat Ukraine, they'd have used nukes.

---

You are such an idiot.
Russia wants to conquer and subjugate the people of Ukraine. Russia has never wanted a genocide.

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

---

Sam is clearly very smart. I dont always agree with him but I do find myself siding with at least some of the time. I still think he sides with govt lies like on the Covid stuff but hey we cant all be right all the time.

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

---

You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

---

I have absolutely no problem with a good argument; you used to make them when I first came back in November. Since then, you've been on a massive downslide. Did something happen to you to make your mind go into this pit of despair?

---

Don't you know that Sam is always right?
He proved his amazing intellect when he constantly used the term "debunked" to defend the endless jabs, masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc during Covid.
Sam was wrong on so many different topics from 2020-2021.... I don't know how anyone can even bother to engage with such a lemming.

Sam is just a "trust the science" "trust the media" re tard.

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

---

It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

---

Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

---

The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

---

Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

---

If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

---

The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

---

Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

---

You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

---

I have absolutely no problem with a good argument; you used to make them when I first came back in November. Since then, you've been on a massive downslide. Did something happen to you to make your mind go into this pit of despair?

---

Nothing has changed. I've been here since the Iraq war and been treated with great respect and utter contempt, often by the same people, from one month to the next. It all depends on whose ox is being gored.

This is actually a great example. All I did was state the commonly accepted definition of genocide under international law. I could have gone on to argue that the same thing is happening in the West Bank, only in its earlier stages and on a smaller scale, but I chose not to. I gave you one plain fact, and your head exploded.

Maybe I should ask what happened to you?

ShooterTX said:

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Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Assassin said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

ATL Bear said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

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It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

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Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

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The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

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Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

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If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

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The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

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Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

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You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

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I have absolutely no problem with a good argument; you used to make them when I first came back in November. Since then, you've been on a massive downslide. Did something happen to you to make your mind go into this pit of despair?

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Don't you know that Sam is always right?
He proved his amazing intellect when he constantly used the term "debunked" to defend the endless jabs, masks, social distancing, lockdowns, etc during Covid.
Sam was wrong on so many different topics from 2020-2021.... I don't know how anyone can even bother to engage with such a lemming.

Sam is just a "trust the science" "trust the media" re tard.

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When an Ivermectin "study" is retracted on account of fraud, it's more than fair to call it debunked. One among many examples.

Sam Lowry said:

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Assassin said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Assassin said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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ATL Bear said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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I'm A Genocide Scholar. I Know It When I See It.
By Omer Bartov
July, 15 2025

My inescapable conclusion has become that Israel is committing genocide against the Palestinian people. Having grown up in a Zionist home, lived the first half of my life in Israel, served in the I.D.F. as a soldier and officer and spent most of my career researching and writing on war crimes and the Holocaust, this was a painful conclusion to reach, and one that I resisted as long as I could. But I have been teaching classes on genocide for a quarter of a century. I can recognize one when I see one.

This is not just my conclusion. A growing number of experts in genocide studies and international law have concluded that Israel's actions in Gaza can only be defined as genocide. So has Francesca Albanese, the U.N. special rapporteur for the West Bank and Gaza, and Amnesty International. South Africa has brought a genocide case against Israel at the International Court of Justice.

The continued denial of this designation by states, international organizations and legal and scholarly experts will cause unmitigated damage not just to the people of Gaza and Israel but also to the system of international law established in the wake of the horrors of the Holocaust, designed to prevent such atrocities from happening ever again. It is a threat to the very foundations of the moral order on which we all depend.

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/15/opinion/israel-gaza-holocaust-genocide-palestinians.html

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It should have said "I'm someone who wants to get published in the NY Times, so I'm going to drop rhetorical bombs".

I have a good friend who is over there. He said a few intel mistakes by the Israelis resulted in two incidents in the past month+ that killed a large number of non combatants. It's been jumped on by the sympathetic media, and the pro-Palestinian echo chambers (these are my words), who barely mentioned the Hamas counter attack earlier this month that killed 5 Israeli soldiers. Israel won't apologize or admit fault for it as they already know they'll be hammered for it.

What doesn't get reported are the weapons caches they're seizing at these crossings, many hidden in aid trucks. They tightened the clearance process which has slowed some aid delivery down. This isn't genocide. This is an ugly asymmetrical nightmare with few good options without a Hamas surrender or Israeli capitulation, neither of which is likely at the moment.

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Your friend must think you are pretty naive.

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The only naivete here is the recycled buy in to the genocide narrative every time Israel escalates in response to Palestinian aggression. This brutal, asymmetrical war just makes for convenient moral theater where you can stage whatever accusations suit the script.

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Starving and shooting civilians is not a response to aggression. It's not the same as Hamas attacking Israeli soldiers or vice versa. It has no purpose except to exterminate a people.

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If it were a genocide, the same would be happening in the West Bank. And that's giving you the false narrative that the starvation is intentional and not a result of war time challenges

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The West Bank is irrelevant. By definition, genocide is committed with the intent to destroy a group in whole or in part.

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Hard to believe that I used to think you were smart and impartial. My oh my have you proved me wrong on both counts...

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You think people are smart when they agree with you. That's a sign of your own partiality, by the way. If you were less biased you would understand that smart people can and do disagree.

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I have absolutely no problem with a good argument; you used to make them when I first came back in November. Since then, you've been on a massive downslide. Did something happen to you to make your mind go into this pit of despair?

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Nothing has changed. I've been here since the Iraq war and been treated with great respect and utter contempt, often by the same people, from one month to the next. It all depends on whose ox is being gored.

This is actually a great example. All I did was state the commonly accepted definition of genocide under international law. I could have gone on to argue that the same thing is happening in the West Bank, only in its earlier stages and on a smaller scale, but I chose not to. I gave you one plain fact, and your head exploded.

Maybe I should ask what happened to you?

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I haven't changed a lick since I started posting on the old Email groups back in the early 90s, then through Austin 360 and their War Room, the 360 Forums Bubear's forums, BaylorFans and now this one. I got my nickname, Assassin, for creating havoc. I didn't name myself until folks started calling me that.

As for my head exploding, all I did was let you know I had no problems with good arguments, and hoped for your health. Not exactly my head exploding, eh? Maybe a bit overcooked on your part?

BTW - Politics is no fun. The whole world is based on Baylor and Cowboy football, nothing else!

Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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canoso said:

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Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

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So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

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Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

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LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

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Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

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Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

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How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

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Are you holding the 2.1m civilians of Gaza responsible for terrorism? I forget how easy it is to not care about mass death once the appropriate label is used. Palestinians are terrorists, and should all die, right? They deserve it? Voted for it?

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You didn't answer the question.

ShooterTX said:

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Porteroso said:

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ScottS said:

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What Sam is missing is that if Isreal wanted to do genocide they could do it in 1 day. I.e. with a NUKE.

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That is laughable. Like saying if Russia really wanted to defeat Ukraine, they'd have used nukes.

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You are such an idiot.
Russia wants to conquer and subjugate the people of Ukraine. Russia has never wanted a genocide.

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Did you respond to the wrong post?

Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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canoso said:

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Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

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So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

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Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

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LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

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Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

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Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

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How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

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Are you holding the 2.1m civilians of Gaza responsible for terrorism? I forget how easy it is to not care about mass death once the appropriate label is used. Palestinians are terrorists, and should all die, right? They deserve it? Voted for it?

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You didn't answer the question.

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Yeah be right back while I go ask them.

You're setting up a logical fallacy you can't even defend. No matter what I say, you will claim Gazans helped them build the tunnels, and are all terrorists by default.

When i put your question to Wikipedia, I get

Quote:

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developed by Hamas and other Palestinian military organizations

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Sam Lowry said:

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Israel is losing its moral high ground. In the long run it will be detrimental to Israel's standing in the world.

TexasScientist said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Israel is losing its moral high ground. In the long run it will be detrimental to Israel's standing in the world.

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yup. Trump needs to pull his head out of his arse and cut them off. Man, he is slow on the uptake.

J.R. said:

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TexasScientist said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Israel is losing its moral high ground. In the long run it will be detrimental to Israel's standing in the world.

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yup. Trump needs to pull his head out of his arse and cut them off. Man, he is slow on the uptake.

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Nazi youth understood the assignment ^

Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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Robert Wilson said:

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Porteroso said:

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canoso said:

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Gazans are things in Hamas' game. Expendable objects. Hamas is the entity starving Gazans.

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So who should feed them? Or should nobody? Certainly nobody expects Hamas to.

---

Maybe, gasp, their own ******* selves. And if that's not working out, well, they should probably overthrow the government that they put in place. Seems like they may have chosen poorly.

---

LMAO! Israel bombs their homes to the ground, destroys nearly every hospital, and of course I support their war against Hamas! But Israel targeted their infrastructure, and now you want them to use that bombed infrastructure to "feed themselves." What a truly dumbass take.

---

Mmm hmm. Why did that infrastructure get destroyed?

Might expedite things if they'd surrender and release the hostages they've been holding since October of 2023.

---

Can you not see the disconnect in logic? The hospitals, the groceries, the markets, get bombed by Israel because Hamas is there, hiding in tunnels. Therefore it is logical that the innocent civilians should mass starve?

How does that work? Shoot the victim twice to make sure he's dead? Shouldn't have gotten shot in the first place?

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How did Hamas manage to build tunnels in all those places?

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Are you holding the 2.1m civilians of Gaza responsible for terrorism? I forget how easy it is to not care about mass death once the appropriate label is used. Palestinians are terrorists, and should all die, right? They deserve it? Voted for it?

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You didn't answer the question.

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Yeah be right back while I go ask them.

You're setting up a logical fallacy you can't even defend. No matter what I say, you will claim Gazans helped them build the tunnels, and are all terrorists by default.

When i put your question to Wikipedia, I get

Quote:

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developed by Hamas and other Palestinian military organizations

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Have the hostages been released?