Bearsalwayswin said:

---

people forget that

---

No, I think it's more devious than that. I think they just don't care.

The_barBEARian said:

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Osodecentx said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

Few things prove an egregious bias better than comparing any self-defense action by Israel to the Holocaust against the Jews.

Absolute garbage and lies, that.

---

Gaza City, as recorded by the Associated Press.

This footage is exactly what Israel fears will be documented by allowing journalists to go to Gaza.
pic.twitter.com/Q5LMXbrocm

— YourFavoriteGuy (@guychristensen_) December 2, 2025

Gooood ol self defense

---

October 7!!!
Who started it?

---

Excellent point!

Israel had never killed a single Palestinian child before Oct 7.

Up until Oct 7 there had been 80 years of peace and comraderie. The entire area had been a utopia and an example to the rest of the world of how to co-exist and love each other.

The US had never had to send troops or spend a dime in military or economic assistance for Israel bcs everything was so copecetic and harmonious.

---

Strawman argument.

The problem with that region is one side has as it stated goal the destruction of the other. And of course it takes two to tango.

Jack Bauer said:

---

🚨 Nick Fuentes just nukes Vivek Ramaswamy: “You can go back to India.”

Pack your bags, curry boy, and go back to India! America first, no apologies! 🇺🇸🦅 pic.twitter.com/aNStwVuxU2

— America First (@AFpumpfun) December 20, 2025

---

It remains amazing to me that some of the youngsters on this board love and support this guy. He definitely promotes their grievance culture. But he's going to be a disaster, election time.

We support hateful men like Nick Fuentes, and that is a recipe for losing elections. Hopefully the youngsters wake up and see the light.

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Sam Lowry said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

It's been well documented by the UN. You know, the body that defined the term under international law.

---

We talking about the same Human Rights council that has Chinese and Iranian diplomats serving on same, and whose findings were roundly disputed with evidence to the contrary? We talking about the same body that had denounced the Russian aggression in Ukraine you support?

---

Lots of countries. That's why they call it the UN.

---

So conveniently, you agree with an obviously biased council when it comes to Gaza, but not when it comes to Ukraine.

I would submit that's evidence of your bias.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

Jack Bauer said:

---

Bearsalwayswin said:

---

fuentes is such a loser tho lol

---

I'm all for him going after power - Trump, Ben Shapiro, and the likes but the casual racism just diminishes his message. I know he is a smart guy but he loses credibility calling the 2nd Lady of the US a "jeet".

---

Honest question - what power do you think he's gone after specifically?

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

whiterock said:

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The_barBEARian said:

---

whiterock said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

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Every day I read about a new jewish terror attack from the beginning of the 20th century that I had never heard about before.

🇷🇴 105 years since the first terrorist attack in Romania:

In 1920, Max Goldstein, Leon Lichtblau, and Saul Osias, three Jewish Bolsheviks, detonate a bomb in the Romanian Senate, killing several people and injuring many others with the intent of starting a communist revolution pic.twitter.com/zvMSiI6Bco

— Daily Romania (@daily_romania) December 18, 2025

---

If international jewry was responsible for communism, why isn't Israel a communist state?

---

Communism is just a tool used to take power... just bcs they promoted communism doesnt mean they actually believe in it.

They certainly dont have any shame about taking other countries money, which is a very communist attitude to take.

They've sucked Germany dry with a trillion in reparations and sucked US tax payers dry for another trillion by exploiting the vulnerabilities in the US political system.

---

LOL. at what point did the kibbutz take over political power and force everyone else to join along.....or else?

"sucked dry." Israel has stolen the entire wealth of Germany AND the USA? Are you mad?

Actually, yes. You are mad.

---

We are at the point where Israel is a richer country than the US and Germany.

They dont have any national debt!!!

If they were really an ally, they would be paying us. Not the other way around.

**** you Boomers for sorry state you left this country in.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

Oldbear83 said:

---

The_barBEARian said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

I find you more than sus.

Expect you have a closet full of brown shirts, mein herr.

---

When is the last time the orderly at the nursing home kicked the crap out of you?

Its long overdue.

---

Sooooooooooooooo many mistakes in your post:

1. I am not in a nursing home (perhaps you are in a facility, that would explain a lot)

2. Orderlies do not as a rule 'kick the crap' out of residents (although again you may have experienced such, which again would explain some of your behavior)

3. I notice you did not actually deny having a closet full of brownshirts

4. You also continue to exhibit anti-semitic opinions consistently.

Btw, I may have found an old photo of you and a buddy in your glory days:

---

You can't even keep track of who you're responding too, lol

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

Mothra said:

---

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition.

---

The issue with the positions that Roman Catholicism and Woke Protestantism have taken is not that they are "left leaning politically". Two Christians can have an honest disagreement about whether 10% or 25% is the right tax rate, or whether union labor is a good or bad thing.

It is that whether you are speaking of the RCC blessing gay couples, the Methodists supporting abortion, or the ELCA supporting mass human trafficking these positions are *evil*, wholly incompatible with Christian morality, and likely to end up in the damnation of those who promote them.

Let's begin to call spades exactly what they are.

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition.

---

The issue with the positions that Roman Catholicism and Woke Protestantism have taken is not that they are "left leaning politically".

It is that whether you are speaking of the RCC blessing gay couples, the Methodists supporting abortion, or the ELCA supporting mass human trafficking these positions are *immoral* and likely to end up in the damnation of those who promote them.

Let's begin to call spades exactly what they are.

---

Anyone who has ready my posts over the years knows I've regularly spoken out against woke denominations, and their positions on the issues. Indeed, Methodists, Presbyterians and Episcopalians have completely lost their way, and now have many of their members on a path of destruction due to their false teachings. Again, these are things that have been thoroughly discussed on this board for years. So. I've called spades, spades for years.

However, I don't consider Protestants some monolithic group, as you apparently do. I think such a position is, in fact, completely absurd. Baptists, Evangelicals, Methodists, Presbyterians, Episcopalians, etc. are as different from one another as they are from Catholics and Orthodoxy. I'd more sooner be Orthodox in my beliefs than be Methodist, Presbyterian or Episcopalian.

And to the contrary, that is indeed the issue - the popes' positions on certain subjects is not only left-leaning, but it does not align with scripture.

That of course has nothing to do with the topic at hand, and as usual, you've gone off on some weird tangent.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

"Wierd tangent?"

Hardly.

I speciifically identified "woke protestantism", which is a very monolithic group. Practically a franchise of the DNC.

This is a question of misidentifying questions of morality as a questions surrounding politics.

Realitybites said:

---

"Wierd tangent?"

Hardly.

I speciifically identified "woke protestantism", which is a very monolithic group. Practically a franchise of the DNC.

This is a question of misidentifying questions of morality as a questions surrounding politics.

---

Your error is believing that left-leaning ideology doesn't also involve questions of morality. Indeed, I would submit the two cannot be divorced from one another.

And again, the topic has nothing to do with the matter at hand.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Happy to have that discussion. There are several discussions ongoing on this subject. See the "How to Get to Heaven When You Die," and "A Prayer of Salvation" threads, in particular. There have been a number of others.

As for changing minds, I can say my mind has changed much on theology over the years, and was influenced by some of the posters on this board. In either regard, it's always good to have discussions with other Christians on such subjects, as iron sharpens iron.

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

Mothra said:

---

Your error is believing that left-leaning ideology doesn't also involve questions of morality. Indeed, I would submit the two cannot be divorced from one another.

---

As I identified in my previous post, left or right leaning politics don't necessarily have to involve questions of fundamental morality. Nor is one side automatically right or wrong.

During the Bush administration, the left's opposition to the Iraq war - something I supported at the time - was correct. I was wrong.

During the Irish Potato Famine, a very free market right leaning UK government would not let food sent to Ireland from around the world be distributed for free to the starving because it would "disrupt free market principles". Over a million people died.

Mothra said:

---

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

---

I'm aware of the doctrine on that and I think it's a very complicated topic. It's still debated to this day within the Church as it's somewhat paradoxical at face value.

I believe it was ultimately implemented in response to the Holocaust as a way to prevent Jewish persecution from Christians

Realitybites said:

---

Mothra said:

---

Your error is believing that left-leaning ideology doesn't also involve questions of morality. Indeed, I would submit the two cannot be divorced from one another.

---

As I identified in my previous post, left or right leaning politics don't necessarily have to involve questions of fundamental morality. Nor is one side automatically right or wrong.

During the Bush administration, the left's opposition to the Iraq war - something I supported at the time - was correct. I was wrong.

During the Irish Potato Famine, a very free market right leaning UK government would not let food sent to Ireland from around the world be distributed for free to the starving because it would "disrupt free market principles". Over a million people died.

---

Again, I consider all of these issues moral in nature.

But this is a different topic for another thread.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

---

I'm aware of the doctrine on that and I think it's a very complicated topic. It's still debated to this day within the Church as it's somewhat paradoxical at face value.

I believe it was ultimately implemented in response to the Holocaust as a way to prevent Jewish persecution from Christians

---

The doctrine has been around for centuries - long before the Holocaust. And there is a plethora of verses to support the Catholic position (and literally, zero, that support the opposite position).

As I said, this is one of the issues the Catholic Church gets right, and it is strongly supported by scripture.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

---

I'm aware of the doctrine on that and I think it's a very complicated topic. It's still debated to this day within the Church as it's somewhat paradoxical at face value.

I believe it was ultimately implemented in response to the Holocaust as a way to prevent Jewish persecution from Christians

---

The doctrine has been around for centuries - long before the Holocaust. And there is a plethora of verses to support the Catholic position (and literally, zero, that support the opposite position).

As I said, this is one of the issues the Catholic Church gets right, and it is strongly supported by scripture.

---

It's been around but I don't think the Church officially rejected the notion until Vatican II which was in the 60's

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

---

I'm aware of the doctrine on that and I think it's a very complicated topic. It's still debated to this day within the Church as it's somewhat paradoxical at face value.

I believe it was ultimately implemented in response to the Holocaust as a way to prevent Jewish persecution from Christians

---

The doctrine has been around for centuries - long before the Holocaust. And there is a plethora of verses to support the Catholic position (and literally, zero, that support the opposite position).

As I said, this is one of the issues the Catholic Church gets right, and it is strongly supported by scripture.

---

It's been around but I don't think the Church officially rejected the notion until Vatican II which was in the 60's

---

I think it's accurate to say the Church didn't take an official position on the subject until that time, but there is evidence that the Catholic church taught as much for centuries.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

---

Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BTW, it is worth noting that the Catholic Church strongly rejects replacement/suppresionist theology when it comes to the Jews - one of the doctrines they get right. That would put them at odds with a number of the youngsters on this thread, perhaps including yourself.

---

I'm aware of the doctrine on that and I think it's a very complicated topic. It's still debated to this day within the Church as it's somewhat paradoxical at face value.

I believe it was ultimately implemented in response to the Holocaust as a way to prevent Jewish persecution from Christians

---

The doctrine has been around for centuries - long before the Holocaust. And there is a plethora of verses to support the Catholic position (and literally, zero, that support the opposite position).

As I said, this is one of the issues the Catholic Church gets right, and it is strongly supported by scripture.

---

It's been around but I don't think the Church officially rejected the notion until Vatican II which was in the 60's

---

I think it's accurate to say the Church didn't take an official position on the subject until that time, but there is evidence that the Catholic church taught as much for centuries.

---

I agree with that notion. But there's certainly a history of members of the Church, and even some Saints, who held beliefs that some here would consider anti-Semitic

So it's been a pretty mixed bag over the last 2000 years. Hence why they finally addressed it in Vatican II

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

---

Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

---

I agree, which is why it's safe to say that any institution composed of fallible beings may get it wrong from time to time.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

---

Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

---

I agree, which is why it's safe to say that any institution composed of fallible beings may get it wrong from time to time.

---

Particularly their opinions on the rejection of replacement theology

Kidding! I'm just poking fun

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

---

Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

---

I agree, which is why it's safe to say that any institution composed of fallible beings may get it wrong from time to time.

---

Particularly their opinions on the rejection of replacement theology

Kidding! I'm just poking fun

---

Certainly, they could be wrong on any issue, including that. But the great weight of scriptural support is on their side on that issue.

And indeed, that is how any doctrine should be viewed - against the great weight of scripture.

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

---

So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

---

Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

---

Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

---

I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

---

LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

---

We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

---

Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

---

Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

---

Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

---

I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

---

What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

---

Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

---

I agree, which is why it's safe to say that any institution composed of fallible beings may get it wrong from time to time.

---

Particularly their opinions on the rejection of replacement theology

Kidding! I'm just poking fun

---

Certainly, they could be wrong on any issue, including that. But the great weight of scriptural support is on their side on that issue.

And indeed, that is how any doctrine should be viewed - against the great weight of scripture.

---

I don't know how to feel about it.

If the old covenant remains, what is the point of Christ?

Does it only apply to ethnic Jews or religious Jews as well?

Can a gentile convert to Judaism and be saved?

What about the Jews who are waiting for their own messiah? Does their messiah not line up with our anti-Christ?

I'm pretty sure the doctrine states that Christ is still essential for salvation and that ultimately it's a divine mystery how Jews receive it

Given the open ended nature of the doctrine, I lean towards it being an attempt to curb anti-semitism in the church, as many Catholics have historically held hostile beliefs against the Jews

You don't have to trust the Vatican to know what's happening in Gaza. You just have to trust your own eyes. The IDF is so brazen in its crimes that their own government finally told them to stay off TikTok and YouTube. I've posted over a dozen videos in this forum, always to no response.

You think the UN is reliable when they talk about collateral damage in Ukraine (which no one denies), but not when they talk about genocide in Gaza. I'd say the inconsistency is yours.

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

---

Mothra said:

---

BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Mothra said:

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BigGameBaylorBear said:

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Wait some of you don't believe that Israel is committing genocide in the West Bank? Lmao

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So they're not targeting civilians - despite the fact Hamas likes to use civilians as human shields, have delivered thousands of tons of food and humanitarian aid, warn the population to leave the areas before a military strike , but that is somehow genocide? Have you ever studied what an actual genocide looks like?

Again, I'm no fan of Netanyahu and I believe he probably took the campaign too far, but we should be careful when we toss around such words. I suppose genocide is now like the term racist - it's completely lost its meaning.

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Yes they are, and you're a fool to think otherwise. Hamas uses human shields but the Israelis are an unimaginably cruel people who have inflicted hell on the civilians in Gaza.

If this isn't genocide/ethnic cleansing than neither is the holocaust

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Sorry, but they're simply is no good or overwhelming evidence to support your position. It's completely baseless and no doubt influenced by your bias.

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I trust the Vatican (who has boots on the ground) more than Sicem365 posters who presumably live stateside

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LOL. With all due respect, I wouldn't trust that corrupt and misguided body any more than I can throw them. The Vatican has been on the wrong side of history on many occasions.

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We are too fundamentally different to continue discussing the topic then. Sounds like you hold classic American anti-Catholic beliefs

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Oh, I do have very specific issues with Catholic doctrine for sure (i.e. their anti-scriptural positions), but I wouldn't say I am anti-Catholic in general. I have many Catholic friends and neighbors, and appreciate the reverence they have for God, even if many of their views are misguided (a topic discussed ad nauseum on other threads).

But there is ample evidence of the Catholic Church, and in particular the last couple of popes, who've taken what I would describe as a more left-leaning view on political issues, unwarranted by scripture or church tradition. And that of course doesn't even begin to scratch the surface of some of the many controversies of the Catholic Church over the decades. In short, we should take anything the Catholic Church says with a huge grain of salt.

What's really interesting, though, is your inability to have a discussion because of such beliefs. I consider you somewhat anti-semtic, but that hasn't prevented me from discussing this topic with you. Strange that you draw the line at my specific issues with the Catholic faith.

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Well I'd love to discuss the Church but I don't want this thread to spin off topic. As I said, it's a fundamental difference and I know neither of us will change their mind. I trust the Church infinitely more than any man-made government, especially Israel or the United States. I don't expect people outside the faith to really understand that.

To get back to the topic of discussion, I trust the sources in front of me. I'm not a fan of the UN but they have boots on the ground, as does the Vatican. I think Cardinal Pizzaballa is an admirable man, I trust what he says.

And as I said, Israel is restricting independent international journalists from entering the area. If there's nothing to hide, let the journalists in and show us

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Here is the fundamental issue as I see it: the Vatican remains a man-made institution, led by men, all of whom are sinners and fallible. In that sense, it is no different from the U.S., Israel, or any other institution led by men.

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I knew you would use that part in your rebuttal haha. That's what I meant by fundamental differences though. You already know it's Catholic doctrine that Christ founded the church. I would be denying the Church if I denied that

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What "humans" does the Catholic Church identify as being infallible and without sin? Only Christ and Mary (and it's wrong on Mary - again, topic for another thread).

That being the case, I am not sure it's all that controversial to say that even the Pope and Catholic leadership are comprised of sinners (or at least it shouldn't be) and can make mistakes. They're still human, after all. I don't think that recognizing that fact is in any way a rejection that Christ founded the RCC (again, a position I don't agree with, but a topic for another thread).

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Correct. We believe in the Immaculate Conception of Mary

But it's not remotely controversial to say the Pope or Saints are sinners

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I agree, which is why it's safe to say that any institution composed of fallible beings may get it wrong from time to time.

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Particularly their opinions on the rejection of replacement theology

Kidding! I'm just poking fun

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Certainly, they could be wrong on any issue, including that. But the great weight of scriptural support is on their side on that issue.

And indeed, that is how any doctrine should be viewed - against the great weight of scripture.

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I don't know how to feel about it.

If the old covenant remains, what is the point of Christ?

Does it only apply to ethnic Jews or religious Jews as well?

Can a gentile convert to Judaism and be saved?

What about the Jews who are waiting for their own messiah? Does their messiah not line up with our anti-Christ?

I'm pretty sure the doctrine states that Christ is still essential for salvation and that ultimately it's a divine mystery how Jews receive it

Given the open ended nature of the doctrine, I lean towards it being an attempt to curb anti-semitism in the church, as many Catholics have historically held hostile beliefs against the Jews

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Good questions. I do not believe the Abrahamic covenant and the NC to be in any way incompatible. Moreover, numerous verses in the NT are clear that God still has a plan for ethnic Israel.

Don't have time to go into it now, but it's a good discussion for another time.

Sam Lowry said:

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You don't have to trust the Vatican to know what's happening in Gaza. You just have to trust your own eyes. The IDF is so brazen in its crimes that their own government finally told them to stay off TikTok and YouTube. I've posted over a dozen videos in this forum, always to no response.

You think the UN is reliable when they talk about collateral damage in Ukraine (which no one denies), but not when they talk about genocide in Gaza. I'd say the inconsistency is yours.

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The last part is simply not an accurate statement. I don't believe the UN anymore than I can throw them.

Send me that link described in your first paragraph.