Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Spite and spittle? What? Youre odd it seems. Identify the spit and / spittle and quote it please. Thx.
Imagine willfully not trying tohonor Mary as much as our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
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Spite and spittle? What? Youre odd it seems. Identify the spit and / spittle and quote it please. Thx.
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Already posted it. Your answer is "my interpretation is different"
So there ya go…u may want to bring the thoughtfulness up a bit.
Sorry you promised Scripture, not Interpretation (which is just opinion)
But I get it, you got nothing and don't want to admit it.
That at least is common to many groups and individuals, not just an RC thing.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Spite and spittle? What? Youre odd it seems. Identify the spit and / spittle and quote it please. Thx.
Glad to, just as soon as you provide that Scripture supporting Purgatory and Queen Mary (opinions alone do not count).
I did ask first, and several times, after all.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Already posted it. Your answer is "my interpretation is different"
So there ya go…u may want to bring the thoughtfulness up a bit.
Sorry you promised Scripture, not Interpretation (which is just opinion)
But I get it, you got nothing and don't want to admit it.
That at least is common to many groups and individuals, not just an RC thing.
I promised scripture and quoted book chapter and verse. And 2000 years of tradition. You have your own interpretation it seems. But to say the Scripture doesnt exist is to deny the Word of God. What you do with it is up to you.
All you have is…..your interpretation.
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Spite and spittle? What? Youre odd it seems. Identify the spit and / spittle and quote it please. Thx.
Glad to, just as soon as you provide that Scripture supporting Purgatory and Queen Mary (opinions alone do not count).
I sis ask first, and several times, after all.
Already provided. Several times. As always. Receipts.
Your interpretation does not count as citing actual Scripture.
But you got no real support, so you just keep repeating the same untrue claim.
Way to rep the Romans, pal.
But you got no real support, so you just keep repeating the same untrue claim.
Way to rep the Romans, pal.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Still no support for your claims, I see.
Just spite and spittle.
Again.
Spite and spittle? What? Youre odd it seems. Identify the spit and / spittle and quote it please. Thx.
Glad to, just as soon as you provide that Scripture supporting Purgatory and Queen Mary (opinions alone do not count).
I did ask first, and several times, after all.Never provided.
AlreadySeveral timesNot even once. As always.Receiptsnothing but noise.
Corrected for accuracy.
Isn't false witness a sin, even for RC's?
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Your interpretation does not count as citing actual Scripture.
But you got no real support, so you just keep repeating the same untrue claim.
Way to rep the Romans, pal.
So happy to see personal growth from you and your emotional "son" perforatives disappears . Kudos to you on that. Now the next step is to get anything affirming your opinion. For now you have a verse and just a difference of your opinion on an i interpretation. Then we can get into the tie to the OT and David's mother. .
Now you should he asking yourself "self (not son), why did God's inspired text have the mention of a woman as queen of heaven and since God chose that inspired text to be included for us near 2000 years later, who could that possibly have been?"
Now on your side youd have "well, self it doesnt say'Mary' so i can he all comfy it's not her. But who is it?? Could there he any logical person it could be? Dont ask that self. Thats a heresy self. I will base my opinion on the fact that i only use i interpretation when it supports my beliefs but not when it doesnt."
Jesus is a door. Camels and needles. It makes your whole belief system fall apart.
Simpol
Fre3dombear said:
Has it ever occurred to the protestants here that the way they talk about Mary would suggest very logically that they would have to admit it is possible that Mary , an every day run of the mill woman they claim, who happen to be chosen to birth God incarnate, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, may not even be in heaven
Of Course old bear and others nothing to say on this as it makes their beliefs fall apart, if theyre honest and objective of course. Typical.
Ah, so you are back to circles.
Well, my dad told me never to mess with someone clearly unable to defend themselves, and in terms of debate that would be you, Fre3dombear.
You have made repeated claims about Scripture that turned out to be just your interpretation and not actual citation.
You have become bitter and snippy when your errors were pointed out, to the point that you demonstrated a clear spite against Christians who just don't happen to pray to Mary.
The conversation failed to move forward from that point, as you do nothing but circle back to your failed argument.
There is no good purpose to continuing with you, so have a good evening, sir.
Well, my dad told me never to mess with someone clearly unable to defend themselves, and in terms of debate that would be you, Fre3dombear.
You have made repeated claims about Scripture that turned out to be just your interpretation and not actual citation.
You have become bitter and snippy when your errors were pointed out, to the point that you demonstrated a clear spite against Christians who just don't happen to pray to Mary.
The conversation failed to move forward from that point, as you do nothing but circle back to your failed argument.
There is no good purpose to continuing with you, so have a good evening, sir.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Ah, so you are back to circles.
Well, my dad told me never to mess with someone clearly unable to defend themselves, and in terms of debate that would be you, Fre3dombear.
You have made repeated claims about Scripture that turned out to be just your interpretation and not actual citation.
You have become bitter and snippy when your errors were pointed out, to the point that you demonstrated a clear spite against Christians who just don't happen to pray to Mary.
The conversation failed to move forward from that point, as you do nothing but circle back to your failed argument.
There is no good purpose to continuing with you, so have a good evening, sir.
My daddy said never wrestle with an ignorant person, theyll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Feel free to respond to any of my questions. Who was the woman? Why God mention her? Is Mary in Heaven? Be consistent. Be honest. The trap is set. Can you defend your beliefs?
Already defended mine. Back to you or will you walk away with nuh uh as your defense? Seems common in your religion and the apologists amongst it.
ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:
Has it ever occurred to the protestants here that the way they talk about Mary would suggest very logically that they would have to admit it is possible that Mary , an every day run of the mill woman they claim, who happen to be chosen to birth God incarnate, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, may not even be in heaven
Why would anyone make the claim that Mary isn't in heaven?
She trusted & obeyed God, and she celebrated the arrival of her savior.
Do you have any evidence to claim that Mary rejected the Savior? She seems to have accepted that Jesus was her savior before He died on the cross.
I've never heard anyone claim that Mary isn't in heaven.... that's a very weird comment.
- 46 Then Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior 48 For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed.…
Forest Bueller III said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:
Has it ever occurred to the protestants here that the way they talk about Mary would suggest very logically that they would have to admit it is possible that Mary , an every day run of the mill woman they claim, who happen to be chosen to birth God incarnate, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, may not even be in heaven
Why would anyone make the claim that Mary isn't in heaven?
She trusted & obeyed God, and she celebrated the arrival of her savior.
Do you have any evidence to claim that Mary rejected the Savior? She seems to have accepted that Jesus was her savior before He died on the cross.
I've never heard anyone claim that Mary isn't in heaven.... that's a very weird comment.
46Then Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47and my [url=https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm][/url]spirit rejoices in [url=https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm][/url]God my [url=https://biblehub.com/greek/3588.htm][/url]Savior! 48For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed.…
Mary proclaimed God as her Savior. She was absolutely a believer.
True, kind of hard to imagine she isn't in Heaven when Scripture says she is blessed.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Excellent!!!! Progress
So those claims she was "just a woman" were flawed and now admitted incorrect.
But seems still leaving the door open the Mother of God could maybe not be in Heaven and only God knows. Makes some things said and believed here a little confusing id imagine.
Now youre starting to apply 2000 year old logic, couple with verses, coupled with magisterium, couple with tradition. Youre starting to see. Mary. The great intercessor. It is biblical. And in the verses stated ad nauseum
So those claims she was "just a woman" were flawed and now admitted incorrect.
But seems still leaving the door open the Mother of God could maybe not be in Heaven and only God knows. Makes some things said and believed here a little confusing id imagine.
Now youre starting to apply 2000 year old logic, couple with verses, coupled with magisterium, couple with tradition. Youre starting to see. Mary. The great intercessor. It is biblical. And in the verses stated ad nauseum
Also, I am going to imagine the original poster "meant" why wouldn't we honor Mary as much as Jesus honored Mary. Not as much as we honored Jesus.
But, Jesus who of course loved His mother did not put her on a pedestal as if she were deity, but as if another believer who was indeed blessed.
But, Jesus who of course loved His mother did not put her on a pedestal as if she were deity, but as if another believer who was indeed blessed.
Forest Bueller III said:
Also, I am going to imagine the original poster "meant" why wouldn't we honor Mary as much as Jesus honored Mary. Not as much as we honored Jesus.
But, Jesus who of course loved His mother did not put her on a pedestal as if she were deity, but as if another believer.
Bingo!!!!!! A few on here couldnt understand but you do !!!
Fre3dombear said:Forest Bueller III said:
Also, I am going to imagine the original poster "meant" why wouldn't we honor Mary as much as Jesus honored Mary. Not as much as we honored Jesus.
But, Jesus who of course loved His mother did not put her on a pedestal as if she were deity, but as if another believer.
Bingo!!!!!! A few on here couldnt understand but you do !!!
Scripture calls Mary Blessed. Jesus of course honored His earthly mother.
This is a great tool for Confession
https://bulldogcatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/a-detailed-catholic-examination-of-conscience-2nd-ed-updated.pdf
https://bulldogcatholic.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/12/a-detailed-catholic-examination-of-conscience-2nd-ed-updated.pdf
Forest Bueller III said:Fre3dombear said:Forest Bueller III said:
Also, I am going to imagine the original poster "meant" why wouldn't we honor Mary as much as Jesus honored Mary. Not as much as we honored Jesus.
But, Jesus who of course loved His mother did not put her on a pedestal as if she were deity, but as if another believer.
Bingo!!!!!! A few on here couldnt understand but you do !!!
Scripture calls Mary Blessed. Jesus of course honored His earthly mother.
Right on brother / sister!!!! (But not genetic brother / suster. That word can be confusing!!!! Some may even say they have to *gasp* interpret it correctly)
No one ever said Mary was 'just a woman', for the record.
Still no purgatory, still no Queen Mary except for England.
Still no purgatory, still no Queen Mary except for England.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Fre3dombear said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
' book chapter and verse posted"
Odd, the references I have seen from you do not support your claims.
Maybe you could post them again if you have some which do say what you claim.
Shouldn't be hard, and frankly it's your job to support your claims, not expect someone else to prove your claims.
Sure. Many are here in this thread. A simple search will reveal.
Off the top of my head posts on the hail mary being biblical, purgatory, mortal and venial sins, no reference to sola scriptura, how faith and works work together, no faith alone, confession, baptism, praying for the dead , prayers to saints as intercession, mary as intercessor, mary as queen, transubstanciation, Catholic belief of being saved by grace, etc
All have been posted
There is no biblical reference to Mary as anything other than the mother of Jesus.
She is never referred to as a queen, mediator, dispenser of grace, or anything else that the RC claim.
Even the RC admit that all of the idolatry of Mary comes from the "traditions"and not from scripture.
Ummmm Revelations 12:1. Already cited in this thread and others
Ccc 966 addresses this for Catholics as an output from the Magisterium
It talks about the woman, but never said she was a queen or ever called her the queen of Heaven. She never is described as having any heavenly authority. She escapes into the wilderness and is protected there... how does any of this translate into the "Queen of Heaven"?
You are attempting to use the most metaphorical book in the Bible to defend your idolatry of Mary? Seriously?
ShooterTX
Oldbear83 said:
No one ever said Mary was 'just a woman', for the record.
Still no purgatory, still no Queen Mary except for England.
No one? Mmmmmk
Of course you can choose not to Believe. Youll either be proven right or wrong on purgatory. The biblical Evidence and support is there if you aren't stubborn. Did 2 millenia of people misinterpret the scriptures on it? Possibly.
Whats the risk in living ones life based on the 2000 year old beliefs on purgatory? MUCHHHHHHH higher risk going off deep end believing in OSAS or not believing in the body of Christ.
Id probably focus more there as a protestant than prayers to Mary as intercessor or purgatory in your concern for the billions of Catholics
More threats from him = you can always tell when Fre3dombear can't support his claims.
As Shooter observed, your opinion on Scripture does not mean that is what Scripture actually said.
As Shooter observed, your opinion on Scripture does not mean that is what Scripture actually said.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Forest Bueller III said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:
Has it ever occurred to the protestants here that the way they talk about Mary would suggest very logically that they would have to admit it is possible that Mary , an every day run of the mill woman they claim, who happen to be chosen to birth God incarnate, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, may not even be in heaven
Why would anyone make the claim that Mary isn't in heaven?
She trusted & obeyed God, and she celebrated the arrival of her savior.
Do you have any evidence to claim that Mary rejected the Savior? She seems to have accepted that Jesus was her savior before He died on the cross.
I've never heard anyone claim that Mary isn't in heaven.... that's a very weird comment.Mary proclaimed God as her Savior. She was absolutely a believer.
- 46 Then Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior 48 For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed.…
Yes.
Mary was a sinner in need of a savior. She was probably the very first believer since she had faith in the Savior even before he was born.
ShooterTX
ShooterTX said:Forest Bueller III said:ShooterTX said:Fre3dombear said:
Has it ever occurred to the protestants here that the way they talk about Mary would suggest very logically that they would have to admit it is possible that Mary , an every day run of the mill woman they claim, who happen to be chosen to birth God incarnate, our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, may not even be in heaven
Why would anyone make the claim that Mary isn't in heaven?
She trusted & obeyed God, and she celebrated the arrival of her savior.
Do you have any evidence to claim that Mary rejected the Savior? She seems to have accepted that Jesus was her savior before He died on the cross.
I've never heard anyone claim that Mary isn't in heaven.... that's a very weird comment.Mary proclaimed God as her Savior. She was absolutely a believer.
- 46 Then Mary said: "My soul magnifies the Lord, 47 and my spirit rejoices in God my Savior 48 For He has looked with favor on the humble state of His servant. From now on all generations will call me blessed.…
Yes.
Mary was a sinner in need of a savior. She was probably the very first believer since she had faith in the Savior even before he was born.
Maybe. Elizabeth seemed to know Who was coming, and of course there was Simeon, whom God promised would not die until he saw the Christ. Simeon saw Jesus after He was born, but knew He was on the way.
In any case, I have no doubt that all three of those people are in Heaven, even though none of them is Queen there!
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
More threats from him = you can always tell when Fre3dombear can't support his claims.
As Shooter observed, your opinion on Scripture does not mean that is what Scripture actually said.
Threats? Lol. Huh? Way to support your position with made up accusations. Im just glad youre less emotional and not name calling everyone .
My opinion? Im not my own pope lile a protestant. However seems you think your opinion with zero defense of it is the correct ine. As always best of luck in that and i hope it works out for the Protestants and I see yall in the glory of God on the other side of course.
Jesus didnt take the easy route and Catholics demand more of themselves from their magisterial interpretation of the Bible back to Peter. God frant us all grace. We try to endure till the end and work out our faith with fear (of God) and trembling.
Mister, the only things 'made up' in this thread are your Scripture support for your claims.
But I'm glad to see you have calmed down to a less volatile tone.
But I'm glad to see you have calmed down to a less volatile tone.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Oldbear83 said:
Mister, the only things 'made up' in this thread are your Scripture support for your claims.
But I'm glad to see you have calmed down to a less volatile tone.
Oh its "mister" now. Thats when youre getting all emotional. Defend your position kind sir. So far youre a bag full of "i dont agree with your interpretation" as if i just dreamed any of this up. Amusing.
Seems you have no clue what volatile means. Again, point to any volatility. Only chuckles and pfffts
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Mister, the only things 'made up' in this thread are your Scripture support for your claims.
But I'm glad to see you have calmed down to a less volatile tone.
Oh its "mister" bow. Thats when youre getting all emotional. Defend your position kind sit. So far youre a bag full of "i dint agree with your interpretation" as if i just dreamed any of this up. Amusing.
1. 'Mister' is in no way a rude or improper term. So if that sets you off, you have bigger issues than you know.
2. You never supported any of your claims, so you lack any authority to demand anything from me or anyone else.
3. And for the record, 'i dint agree with your interpretation' is a deliberate mocking manner, and makes you guilty of what you falsely claim is done to you,
I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Keep acting as you are and I won't be the only one to decide you aren't worth the effort.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
This is what has led you astray and created confusion
Luther stated it in “The Estate of Marriage” (1522). He also allowed polygamy.
— Dr Taylor Marshall™️ (@TaylorRMarshall) January 18, 2026
He was wicked.
Oldbear83 said:Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
Mister, the only things 'made up' in this thread are your Scripture support for your claims.
But I'm glad to see you have calmed down to a less volatile tone.
Oh its "mister" bow. Thats when youre getting all emotional. Defend your position kind sit. So far youre a bag full of "i dint agree with your interpretation" as if i just dreamed any of this up. Amusing.
1. 'Mister' is in no way a rude or improper term. So if that sets you off, you have bigger issues than you know.
2. You never supported any of your claims, so you lack any authority to demand anything from me or anyone else.
3. And for the record, 'i dint agree with your interpretation' is a deliberate mocking manner, and makes you guilty of what you falsely claim is done to you,
I'm trying to have a conversation with you. Keep acting as you are and I won't be the only one to decide you aren't worth the effort.
You are sensitive. You say a lot but add nothing to your argument. Everything you say is about ME and NOT your position. If thats all youve got ill gladly not engage.
My points have been made with no counter by you. So theres not much more to say. Points made and unrefuted. Nowhere togo for me other than hope people open their eyes but wont be you as your focus is me clearly and not your position
Ok then, off to 'ignore' you go.
Good night.
Good night.
That which does not kill me, will try again and get nastier
Fre3dombear said:Oldbear83 said:
No one ever said Mary was 'just a woman', for the record.
Still no purgatory, still no Queen Mary except for England.
No one? Mmmmmk
Of course you can choose not to Believe. Youll either be proven right or wrong on purgatory. The biblical Evidence and support is there if you aren't stubborn. Did 2 millenia of people misinterpret the scriptures on it? Possibly.
Whats the risk in living ones life based on the 2000 year old beliefs on purgatory? MUCHHHHHHH higher risk going off deep end believing in OSAS or not believing in the body of Christ.
Id probably focus more there as a protestant than prayers to Mary as intercessor or purgatory in your concern for the billions of Catholics
The risk is that a belief in purgatory makes it impossible to have true faith in Christ.
The scriptures make it very clear that Jesus paid the full price for our sins with his blood sacrifice. If you believe that you must pay for some of your sins in purgatory, then you are denying that the sacrifice on the cross was a complete & perfect sacrifice.
Here's the risk: a belief in purgatory in a denial that Jesus did a complete work... it is calling Jesus a liar when he said "it is done"
A belief in purgatory is the opposite of...
Hebrews 7:25, 27 NIV
[25] Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.
[27] Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.
A belief in purgatory is a belief that Jesus didn't do a complete work on the cross.... it's a belief in a false Messiah.
ShooterTX
As an example, Luther stated that "scripture does not explicitly forbid polygamy" and this explains the backwards logic of the popes here and their interpretations of scripture.
Oldbear83 said:
Ok then, off to 'ignore' you go.
Good night.
Deuces