whiterock said:LOL. before Trump was Trump. I got a chuckle over that one. Like...."hey guys, remember that time when everyone liked Trump?"Sam Lowry said:I wasn't commenting on any of that. RDS' first campaign for governor was in 2018, before Trump jumped the shark. You and HB were talking about 2022; calling RDS a "Trump candidate" in that context is misleading at best.whiterock said:History is not your strong suit. DeSantis was lagging in the pack in a very large primary field in his FIRST campaign for governor. Trump's endorsement rocketed his campaign to the nomination, and he went on to win the General election in what was at the time a very purple state.Sam Lowry said:Trump only endorsed DeSantis two days before the election, after months of attacking him, and it was more in the form of a prediction: "You're going to re-elect Ron DeSantis as Governor of your state."whiterock said:That is the establishment GOP line, setting up a case for RDS. But there is a pretty cherry-picking big problem with that argument.Harrison Bergeron said:1. Trump barely beat one of the least likely politicians in history.Doc Holliday said:What helped Trump is that he said sh i t that people were thinking but we're too afraid to say and it gave him loads of publicity.Harrison Bergeron said:Trump is attacking DeSantis only from the left ... when his not making moronic comments.Doc Holliday said:I didn't say he was moderate, but his campaign messaging is.sombear said:What exactly has RDS been moderate on? He's actually getting hammered by the moderate, corporate types for campaigning to the right of Trump.Doc Holliday said:He's basically hired a Jeb Bush campaign blueprint and it absolutely sucks.whiterock said:RDS has struggled. It is really, really, really hard to step up from state politics to national politics. He hasta get better. And he may do exactly that. Or he may not. He does have time to do so. The bigger problem is just the emerging perception that, because of his stumbles and overall under-performance to expectations, he's not ready for the big-stage. He's got to break that cycle sooner rather than later, or perception will set in & become reality.RD2WINAGNBEAR86 said:The rumors of the death of Ron DeSantis have been greatly exaggerated. Once Biden exits the race, things will get REALLY interesting.Doc Holliday said:Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis has "really underperformed" in his 2024 presidential campaign, former GOP Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan says, calling it "one of the worst" campaigns he's seen so far.@MajorCBS: "Is it over for DeSantis?"
— CBS News (@CBSNews) June 21, 2023
Hogan: "I think it's getting close to being over." pic.twitter.com/Krx8AX9L0x
The talk of a dual party Independent ticket with Joe Manchin running for President and a Republican VP running mate is fascinating to me. Should the Dems and Republicans not abandon a Biden vs. Trump rematch that nobody wants, such a ticket could have a real shot. I certainly would consider it. We shall see.
Frankly, if he doesn't get a lot better, he might even miss the ticket altogether.
The guy is missing out on populist messaging. He's also too formal with his public speaking. He needs to talk personal and bring the fire.
I'd choose RFK Jr. over Desantis at this point.
Good breakdown on why:
https://www.adamtownsend.me/desantis-campaign/?clear-cache
"Because you'd be in jail". He straight up talked sh it like the general public does. Desantis won't do that. He behaves like a corporate stooge being watched by HR.
This also brings up another point about GOP and many GOP voters who think "we need to bring respect and formalism back". They don't get it. You can't allow democrats to be ruthless and try to appear like you won't stoop down to their level, it's a losing strategy.
2. Trump lost to a corpse.
3. Virtually every Trump-backed candidate lost in 2022.
Trump is a loser.
RDS was a Trump-backed candidate, too...
So was Kemp.
Etc......
If you were to propose that Trump is a positive in some parts of the country and a negative in others, or that he has had some major hits as well as some major misses, I would agree with you. But, in fact, he has his fingerprints on most of the party. He endorsed Kemp in the primary. He even endorsed Youngkin in the general. Ever heard of Youngkin? Did the Trump endorsement doom him? I seem to remember that Youngkin won in a +9 blue state despite a Trump endorsement. Was Trump a drag in 2020? Yeah, on balance mostly so. But Kryptonite? That some pretty weak kryptonite, as far as kryptonite goes.
Geez, guys. Pointing out uncontestable facts (that you try to obscure) is now derided as shilling for Trump?
RDS was most assuredly a Trump candidate when he won the Governorship of a very purple FL, during the heat of the neverTrumper madness over Russia collusion and special counsel investigations & such....in one of those elections cited as evidence for the meme Trump as a loser, drag on the party, terrible candidate selection, etc....
Look. there are plenty of valid ways to critique Trump. But facts are facts. There some very glaring discordant refutations of the "loser Trump" narrative. If you want to use that phrase because HE lost in 2020? spot on. But when you try to stretch out to both horizons, don't be surprised when branches start poking holes in the fabric.
If you want to talk facts, let's talk facts. Trump lost the popular vote in 2016, but thankfully won the electoral college against one of the worst presidential candidates in our nations history, squeaking out a win against HRC. In 2018 he lost Congress. In 2020 he lost the presidential election against a geriatric patient who was likewise one of the worst candidates in modern history. And in 2022, all of the Trumpist candidates lost, perhaps with the exception of JD Vance - if you can call a guy who was highly critical of Trump a Trumpist.
Look, you'll get no argument from me that a Trump endorsement once helped with a significant portion of conservatives who thought the guy could do no wrong. But that ability is long gone. We saw it fail repeatedly with the trumpists who touted his election conspiracies in 2022. Those candidates fared poorly. Elections are about results and the fact is the Trumpists haven't done well in general elections since 2018. Sure they may do well in primaries but in the general election those candidates got their asses kicked.
Buying the fools gold will lead to another disappointing general election. Wait and see.