Canada2017 said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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whiterock said:

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Osodecentx said:

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I don't take the Fifth like Dear leader

Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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Quote:

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You are the weak minded who will get him nominated for 2024, just like Dems want

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Yup, Oso has gone squirmy and sweaty, like Hunter when he first heard about a search warrant.

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Old Fifth Amendment Leader has your loyalty to the bitter end

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You oppose Americans using their Constitutional rights.

Noted.

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Dear Leader did.

'If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?' Trump's position on declining to testify has changed over time.
Over the years, former President Donald J. Trump has generally criticized other politicians for taking the Fifth Amendment. But on Wednesday, he invoked the right himself during a deposition at the office of the New York attorney general, and it wasn't the first time.
Mr. Trump previously contended that invoking one's Fifth Amendment rights was virtually an admission of wrongdoing.
"So there are five people taking the Fifth Amendment, like you see on the mob, right? You see the mob takes the Fifth. If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?" Mr. Trump said at a rally in Iowa in 2016, referring to investigations into Hillary Clinton's handling of potentially classified material as secretary of state.
Soon after, at a presidential debate, Mr. Trump doubled down on criticizing Ms. Clinton for using a private email server as secretary of state, again referencing the Fifth Amendment. "When you have your staff taking the Fifth Amendment, taking the Fifth, so they're not prosecuted, when you have the man that set up the illegal server taking the Fifth, I think it's disgraceful," he said.
Yet in 1998, he suggested that President Bill Clinton should have done just that during the impeachment investigation into Clinton. "It's a terrible thing for a president to take the Fifth Amendment, but he probably should have done it. I don't think he could have done any worse than what's happened," Trump said.
On Wednesday, Mr. Trump was singing a different tune, however, when he arrived at the New York attorney general's office in downtown Manhattan to give sworn testimony for a civil inquiry into his business practices.
In a statement emailed just before the questioning started, Mr. Trump acknowledged his shifting positions over the years, but said circumstances had changed. He portrayed himself as the victim of politically motivated investigations, not just by the New York attorney general, but by the Justice Department and other prosecutors who he asserted "have lost all moral and ethical bounds of decency."
"I once asked, 'If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?'" he wrote. "Now I know the answer to that question. When your family, your company, and all the people in your orbit have become the targets of an unfounded, politically motivated Witch Hunt supported by lawyers, prosecutors, and the Fake News Media, you have no choice."
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/10/nyregion/trump-fifth-amendment-comments.html

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Don't be foolish. I will take the fifth on anything above a traffic stop, because I am a Republican elected official. I might trust the local cop, but I can't control what Feds might do with anything I say. See the Missouri and Roku examples posted here. (insert the proverbial "we are not in Kansas anymore" here.

After they get thru with Trump, they'll come for his supporters. And after they're done with them, they'll come for you. You've inconveniently spoken & voted & donated too many times over the years to be trusted. And after they're done with you, they'll come after our center-left friends who are uncomfortable with what they're seeing but going along with it because they think Trump is the bigger problem at the moment. And after that, they'll start measuring levels of enthusiasm among true believers.

that's the way these things go.
Until they are stopped.
and they will be.
Everyone will remember who stopped it and who played along with it, too.

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That's fine. Did you ever say, 'If you're innocent, why are you taking the Fifth Amendment?'

I have no problem with criminals taking the nickel. Just pointing out Dear Leaders' quote from the little red book

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I used to think that way.

I'm wiser now.

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With all the flagrant entrapment being employed by governmental minions these days.....only a fool would not automatically take the 5th .

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in a court proceeding with the government as my opponent, I would take the fifth on stating my name

Just remember, they tell you the truth when you're arrested. Anything you say will be used against you

He could have been on SCOTUS...

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/08/right-about-now-donald-trump-really-wishes-merrick-garland-was-on-the-supreme-court/?utm_campaign=Above%20the%20Law%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=222620894&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-88PMAsgWIwyKkykykX0FHInpSPl2k5UZvFaRj1xbTHPuHxfe1U_DrLx7VhuvhRvo7s2tnTeNOFUg3EtQxdWOPaS18CbQ&utm_content=222620894&utm_source=hs_email

Attorney General Merrick Garland just concluded a press conference informing the country that the Department of Justice has filed a motion to unseal the warrant that resulted in the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago this week. While the DOJ originally requested that the warrant be sealed to protect Trump's rights, according to Garland now that Trump and his team have started ranting about it to the media, the DOJ is asking the court to unseal it.

In a nutshell, Republicans spent the last few days complaining that the DOJ refused to tell the world what was in the warrant something Trump could have publicly disclosed at any point if he so wished banking on the DOJ to remain silent while conspiratorial impulses took over. Merrick Garland politely decided to allow Trump to reap what he's sown.

JustWinBears said:

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RMF5630 said:

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Stefano DiMera said:

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' I could shoot someone in the middle of Manhattan and not lose any support '.

'I could sell classified nuclear documents to Russia and North Korea and not lose any support '

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So he has nuclear documents in boxes
at Mar Lago that the Government just realized were missing 18 months after he left office?

They misplaced the nuclear documents and just tracked it down? Am I allowed to ask why the nuclear documents were allowed to go missing this long before they acted?

So we have a combination of an ex- President taking nuclear docs as keepsakes & a DOJ that waited 18 months to retrieve. Maybe Cassidy deciphered them last week and we just found out they were missing.

Shouldn't joke. But does this seem a bit unusual?

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They knew he took documents but probably didn't have the full scope of what he had. That's why they have been working on getting the documents he took back and had already recovered like 15 boxes. It's not like they suddenly said opps somethings missing they've been trying to recover this stuff through more peaceful means and have already recovered some of it before this search.

You'd be surprised what goes missing in the government and military when it shouldn't. If only I could tell stories I've heard from people I know regarding sensitive material going missing or being shipped to wrong place. But just know this scenario isn't far fetched at all when it comes to the government they are very inefficient and in many cases quite incompetent.

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....and I would love to hear all the neverTrumpers make the case that Trump himself selected every document to take to MAL and personally packed dozens of boxes for shipment. I mean, the guy is supposed to be stupid, lazy, unfocused, too egotistical to be bothered with anything remotely resembling clerical work, and totally preoccupied with eating Whoppers and channel surfing porn channels.

Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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C. Jordan said:

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4th and Inches said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

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A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

---

This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

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OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

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The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

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behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

J.B.Katz said:

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He could have been on SCOTUS...

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/08/right-about-now-donald-trump-really-wishes-merrick-garland-was-on-the-supreme-court/?utm_campaign=Above%20the%20Law%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=222620894&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-88PMAsgWIwyKkykykX0FHInpSPl2k5UZvFaRj1xbTHPuHxfe1U_DrLx7VhuvhRvo7s2tnTeNOFUg3EtQxdWOPaS18CbQ&utm_content=222620894&utm_source=hs_email

Attorney General Merrick Garland just concluded a press conference informing the country that the Department of Justice has filed a motion to unseal the warrant that resulted in the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago this week. While the DOJ originally requested that the warrant be sealed to protect Trump's rights, according to Garland now that Trump and his team have started ranting about it to the media, the DOJ is asking the court to unseal it.

In a nutshell, Republicans spent the last few days complaining that the DOJ refused to tell the world what was in the warrant something Trump could have publicly disclosed at any point if he so wished banking on the DOJ to remain silent while conspiratorial impulses took over. Merrick Garland politely decided to allow Trump to reap what he's sown.

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Thank God he isn't. Garland is a bitter little man who is abusing power against political opponents.

Booray said:

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Or different in that Obama complied with the law and Trump did not.

I am sure it hurt to have that small detail pointed out.

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all the reporting I have seen indicates he was cooperating, to include securing the material as requested behind a locked door.

If you can show me where he refused to grant further access for inspection or retrieval, I'm all ears. Not WAPO unnamed sources, but documentary proof.

whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Or different in that Obama complied with the law and Trump did not.

I am sure it hurt to have that small detail pointed out.

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all the reporting I have seen indicates he was cooperating, to include securing the material as requested behind a locked door.

If you can show me where he refused to grant further access for inspection or retrieval, I'm all ears. Not WAPO unnamed sources, but documentary proof.

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You are about to get it when the warrant and supporting docs are released.

Merrick Garland did not do this for no reason.

whiterock said:

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J.B.Katz said:

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He could have been on SCOTUS...

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/08/right-about-now-donald-trump-really-wishes-merrick-garland-was-on-the-supreme-court/?utm_campaign=Above%20the%20Law%20Daily&utm_medium=email&_hsmi=222620894&_hsenc=p2ANqtz-88PMAsgWIwyKkykykX0FHInpSPl2k5UZvFaRj1xbTHPuHxfe1U_DrLx7VhuvhRvo7s2tnTeNOFUg3EtQxdWOPaS18CbQ&utm_content=222620894&utm_source=hs_email

Attorney General Merrick Garland just concluded a press conference informing the country that the Department of Justice has filed a motion to unseal the warrant that resulted in the FBI search at Mar-a-Lago this week. While the DOJ originally requested that the warrant be sealed to protect Trump's rights, according to Garland now that Trump and his team have started ranting about it to the media, the DOJ is asking the court to unseal it.

In a nutshell, Republicans spent the last few days complaining that the DOJ refused to tell the world what was in the warrant something Trump could have publicly disclosed at any point if he so wished banking on the DOJ to remain silent while conspiratorial impulses took over. Merrick Garland politely decided to allow Trump to reap what he's sown.

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Thank God he isn't. Garland is a bitter little man who is abusing power against political opponents.

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Eyeroll.

Republicans are really undermining their credibility by attacking people like Garland whose character is unimpeachable on behalf of Trump, who should have been impeached twice.

4th and Inches said:

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in a court proceeding with the government as my opponent, I would take the fifth on stating my name

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You'd probably need to.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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C. Jordan said:

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4th and Inches said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

---

A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

---

This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

---

OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

---

The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

---

behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

---

last ditch defense? Yeah, Trump went through every document.

The mistake in this witch hunt is classified nuclear documents. There is no way anything nuclear doesn't have a chain of custody AND even if missing they would wait 18 months to send in Feds. US Marshals would be there in hours, not months. You can't even drive by a nuclear facility to look at Manatees without Black Suburbans meeting you to leave the area.

BUT, Trump took nuclear documents and they waited 18 months (3 months before a General Election) to say it is an emergency and he should be prosecuted. You find nothing strange about that scenario???

You guys looking to nail Trump for ANYTHING need to think beyond books...

J.B.Katz said:

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4th and Inches said:

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in a court proceeding with the government as my opponent, I would take the fifth on stating my name

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You'd probably need to.

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spoken like a pronoun with zero real world experience with govt angencies

In the "even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then," Marco Rubio was right:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/marco-rubio-donald-trump-nuclear-codes-224155

Sen. Marco Rubio is sticking by his former attack line that Donald Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes, despite having previously come around to support Trump as the nominee.

In an interviewwith The Weekly Standard, Rubio reaffirmed his statement from February when he was still in the throes of a nasty primary battle that America can't give "the nuclear codes of the United States to an erratic individual."

J.B.Katz said:

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In the "even a blind hog finds an acorn now and then," Marco Rubio was right:

https://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/marco-rubio-donald-trump-nuclear-codes-224155

Sen. Marco Rubio is sticking by his former attack line that Donald Trump can't be trusted with the nuclear codes, despite having previously come around to support Trump as the nominee.

In an interviewwith The Weekly Standard, Rubio reaffirmed his statement from February when he was still in the throes of a nasty primary battle that America can't give "the nuclear codes of the United States to an erratic individual."

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Rubio is a neocon warhawk.. Trump was the most peaceful president in 40 years.

So the Dems new narrative online is Trump took the nuclear codes and was trying to sell them to the Russians?

Will somebody get the "they planted the evidence" thread up and running?

https://www.economist.com/united-states/2022/08/10/the-raid-on-mar-a-lago-could-shake-americas-foundations

riflebear said:

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So the Dems new narrative online is Trump took the nuclear codes and was trying to sell them to the Russians?

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The Saudis most likely, and not nuclear codes but tech secrets.

To be clear it is an outlandish (but plausible) theory not supported by any substantial evidence at this time. It relies on inferences connecting the 2019 transfer of nuclear technology info to the Saudis (famously refusing to include any safeguards against weapons development), whatever Flynn was up to trying to circumvent laws to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia, the sweetheart deal the Saudis gave Jared Kushner ($2bil for an investment fund that will pay out $25mil to Kushner indefinitely no matter how the fund performs, either for services rendered or something to be fulfilled), and the upcoming LIV (aka Saudi sovereign wealth fund) golf tournament to be held at Mar a Lago.

DoJ subpoenaed surveillance footage in the areas where the info was held back in June, something spooked the head of the Counterintelligence and Export Control division at DoJ into executing the warrant now.

riflebear said:

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So the Dems new narrative online is Trump took the nuclear codes and was trying to sell them to the Russians?

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saudies is what i am seeing

he was using the ferreted plans to develop a mr wizard-style home nuclear reactor / detonation kit!

loosely titled: 'nuclear fun at home with don, kiddos!'

- KKM

brave brave sir merrick,
bravely (turned and) walked away.......

- KKM

{ sipping coffee }

{ eating donut }

D!

...when the press raised its hand to ask
merrick wasn't up to the task.

HuMcK said:

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riflebear said:

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So the Dems new narrative online is Trump took the nuclear codes and was trying to sell them to the Russians?

---

The Saudis most likely, and not nuclear codes but tech secrets.

To be clear it is an outlandish (but plausible) theory not supported by any substantial evidence at this time. It relies on inferences connecting the 2019 transfer of nuclear technology info to the Saudis (famously refusing to include any safeguards against weapons development), whatever Flynn was up to trying to circumvent laws to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia, the sweetheart deal the Saudis gave Jared Kushner ($2bil for an investment fund that will pay out $25 to Kushner indefinitely no matter how the fund performs, either for services rendered or something to be fulfilled), and the upcoming LIV (aka Saudi sovereign wealth fund) golf tournament to be held at Mar a Lago.

DoJ subpoenaed surveillance footage in the areas where the info was held back in June, something spooked the head of the Counterintelligence and Export Control division at DoJ into executing the warrant now.

---

The LIV Golf Tournament is included!! Is the PGA behind this??

My original question that I keep asking and nobody answers is why now? This is 2019 stuff and the Biden DOJ had 18 months to do something. Seems to me if this was real, Jan 21, 2020 US Marshals are at Mar Lago. Yet here we are in 2022 with more inferences and allegations on National TV with no due process to validate. Nobody else finds this all convenient?

Everyone jumped on the Newsweek article a few days ago for how amazing the info was and the info they had then Garland came out and said he approved the search which Newsweek said he hadn't.

The blatant lying articles about Trump continue. See why no one but libs trust the media anymore?

Booray said:

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Will somebody get the "they planted the evidence" thread up and running?

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They actually did against Carter Page, so it's a valid concern.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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4th and Inches said:

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At the end of his presidency, Barack Obama trucked 30 million pages of his administration's records to Chicago...More than five years after Obama's presidency ended, the National Archives webpage reveals that zero pages have been digitized & disclosed..

Obama is a Dem and aint running for office so nobody cares..

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Historians certainly care. The DOJ doesn't care because, unlike Trump, Obama is cooperating with NARA and they're the ones in charge of digitizing the documents. So it's a very different situation from what Cruz would have you believe.

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of course the Obama situation is different from the Trump situation. Obama is a Democrat and Trump is a Republican. Ergo, Obama can be trusted to do that right thing and must be exempted from the law in order to protect the institution; while Trump is a authoritarian threat to democracy and must be held to highest levels of legal exactitude in order to protect democracy.

That repressive tolerance is noble work, I tell you, particularly when you throw the tolerance part of it out the window.

---

Obama followed the law, but keep that broken record spinning.

You are in the denial/bargaining phase, where you feel as if you can latch on to any one specific thing that explains why this isn't as big a deal as it seems. I don't know what they found, the stuff about nuclear tech could be wrong, but I do know the head of the Counterintelligence and Export Control division at DoJ doesn't personally sign off on warrants himself just for fun.

Latest reporting says they've been talking with the Trump camp for about a year now, and issued multiple subpoenaes for documents, resulting in the first batch of stuff getting returned. The source is not yet known, but something or someone alerted DoJ that the Trump camp was apparently not being truthful about what they had and tried to avoid giving it back, which of course violates the subpoena. The next normal step for when someone refuses to honor a court order, is to get a warrant and collect the stuff yourself. These processes take time, and frankly they have been treating Trump with kid gloves to try and avoid having to actually serve a warrant, hence the long drawn out timeline.

You or I would be in jail awaiting trial already (remember Reality Winner?), but Trump has the ability to animate his radical base into making constant and specific death threats against people who dare to investigate him (resulting in what happened with the attack on an FBI field office in Cincinatti yesterday), so he gets the white glove approach that draws things out.

whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

---

Oldbear83 said:

---

C. Jordan said:

---

4th and Inches said:

---

BaylorJacket said:

---

Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

---

A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

---

This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

---

OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

---

The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

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behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

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The appropriate standard would be NARA regulations, not embassy practice.

Sam Lowry said:

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whiterock said:

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Sam Lowry said:

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Oldbear83 said:

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C. Jordan said:

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4th and Inches said:

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BaylorJacket said:

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Truly a fascinating situation. Trump is stupid enough to illegally take home classified Nuclear documents.

But, the government is absolutely (beyond) corrupt enough to plant evidence.

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A) nothing he took is classified.. he declassified everything he took by the act of taking it when leaving office.

B) the FBI and NARA had access to the records previously and told him to make them more secure with an additional lock which he did.

As a former president, he has an office, a secured space and security. It was still safe and secure just like the 30000 pages of records Obama has..

Watching to see how the game of warrant chicken playes out..

The warrant affidavit was sealed so I would love to see who "snitched". Supposedly a USS guy..

Both sides are getting riled up and its hilarious to watch.

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This is totally incorrect.

A) He has to formally declassify documents. His taking them home doesn't declassify them.

B) The FBI believed he had documents he hadn't disclosed. Apparently an informant in Trumpworld clued them in.

Now, we're hearing the docs may have been related to nukes.

Third, his office at Mara Lardo is not a secure classified facility.

The warrant won't tell you who the informant is.

So, you're wrong about it all.

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OK, my turn

A) Classification depends on a number of factors. Some classifications have sunset provisions so after a certain time they declassify (this was done so academics could access historical docs at Archives w/o a cumbersome process), while some are classified only under certain conditions (e.g. the President's travel plans for a given day are classified for that day and while in office bc routine, but are not classified once the POTUS becomes a former POTUS). Still other documents are classified according to who may or may not see them. For example, some documents would not be classified for Trump bc he created the document or already had prior knowledge of their content, but would be beyond the authority of the FBI agents who raided the residence. The absence of a Special Master at the scene therefore either implies that the documents were not sensitive, or else that the FBI royally screwed up.

B) Speculation. Also, the FBI regularly shields their informants by having the real source submit their tips through a third party who is paid by the FBI to play the role. The circumstances do not rule out someone with a grudge making up **** to go after Trump. There is, after all, precedent for just that behavior.

Regarding nukes, you're going to have a really hard time selling that claim. As POTUS, the closest thing Trump would have seen or handled with regard to nuclear weapons would the the SIOP, which by definition is partly created by the POTUS as CINC (see part A about who has authority to see such material), or an old nuclear codes card, which would be valueless and obsolete by the next day. All in all, that dog won't hunt.

As for 'secure facilities', depending on the level of classification any locked cabinet and door may be sufficient to meet the requirement for secure documents. You need to stop confusing movie glitz with the real world.

So, you're blowing smoke like a Cheech & Chong movie. Only you're not funny at all.

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The president taking a document home doesn't automatically declassify it. This should be obvious to anyone who's not desperate to come up with a last-ditch defense. The report about the informant and the undisclosed documents isn't speculation. It came from two senior government officials. Your theory that it was made up by someone with a grudge? That's speculation. There are any number of nuclear-related documents other than SIOPS and code cards that a president could see. As for secure facilities, you're probably talking about outdated rules. All classified information currently has to be stored in containers or facilities built according to certain specifications.

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behind two locks....a locked file safe and a locked door would suffice, particularly when guarded by armed USG personnel.

....like every Embassy I served in, which had a Marine Security Guard on duty at the front door, a lock on the Station door, a lock on a closet door, and a lock on a metal safe, otherwise located amid a miasma of third-world misery which could have boiled over the walls & up the stairs and be working on the locks with crowbars in minutes.

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The appropriate standard would be NARA regulations, not embassy practice.

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What is the NARA regulation on storing classified nuclear secrets?

HuMcK said:

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You are in the denial/bargaining phase, where you feel as if you can latch on to any one specific thing that explains why this isn't as big a deal as it seems. I don't know what they found, the stuff about nuclear tech could be wrong, but I do know the head of the Counterintelligence and Export Control division at DoJ doesn't personally sign off on warrants himself just for fun.

Latest reporting says they've been talking with the Trump camp for about a year now, and issued multiple subpoenaes for documents, resulting in the first batch of stuff getting returned. The source is not yet known, but something or someone alerted DoJ that the Trump camp was apparently not being truthful about what they had and tried to avoid giving it back, which of course violates the subpoena. The next normal step for when someone refuses to honor a court order, is to get a warrant and collect the stuff yourself. These processes take time, and frankly they have been treating Trump with kid gloves to try and avoid having to actually serve a warrant, hence the long drawn out timeline.

You or I would be in jail awaiting trial already (remember Reality Winner?), but Trump has the ability to animate his radical base into making constant and specific death threats against people who dare to investigate him (resulting in what happened with the attack on an FBI field office in Cincinatti yesterday), so he gets the white glove approach that draws things out.

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I am in no stage. I don't care. I don't like Trump and hope he doesn't run. He has better policies than any of the Dems, but he is an ******* and not the right temperament for POTUS. The fact that he won and has so many supporters shows me how bad the other candidates are!

Regardless of my voter thoughts on Trump. What the Dems have done this election cycle is just plain wrong. The January 6th Commission and now this charade of national secrets being at his house 18 months after he left office? This is a much larger threat to Democracy than anything that happened on January 6th. Those idiots were prosecuted.

How the Dems not only manipulated the election process in 2020 and now are trying to eliminate competitors before the election is as anti-Democratic as it gets. Liz is now not only using the bully pulpit on Trump, she is on to DeSantis. I really can't believe how many liberals are not only sitting by watching this, but cheering it! You are in that crowd, who you going to eliminate next?

HuMcK said:

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riflebear said:

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So the Dems new narrative online is Trump took the nuclear codes and was trying to sell them to the Russians?

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The Saudis most likely, and not nuclear codes but tech secrets.

To be clear it is an outlandish (but plausible) theory not supported by any substantial evidence at this time. It relies on inferences connecting the 2019 transfer of nuclear technology info to the Saudis (famously refusing to include any safeguards against weapons development), whatever Flynn was up to trying to circumvent laws to build nuclear reactors in Saudi Arabia, the sweetheart deal the Saudis gave Jared Kushner ($2bil for an investment fund that will pay out $25mil to Kushner indefinitely no matter how the fund performs, either for services rendered or something to be fulfilled), and the upcoming LIV (aka Saudi sovereign wealth fund) golf tournament to be held at Mar a Lago.

DoJ subpoenaed surveillance footage in the areas where the info was held back in June, something spooked the head of the Counterintelligence and Export Control division at DoJ into executing the warrant now.

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If these papers were in the possession of Obama or Clinton, rightwing media would be pumping this outlandish theory 24/7.

Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Or different in that Obama complied with the law and Trump did not.

I am sure it hurt to have that small detail pointed out.

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all the reporting I have seen indicates he was cooperating, to include securing the material as requested behind a locked door.

If you can show me where he refused to grant further access for inspection or retrieval, I'm all ears. Not WAPO unnamed sources, but documentary proof.

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You are about to get it when the warrant and supporting docs are released.

Merrick Garland did not do this for no reason.

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If it was damning, it would have already been released or leaked.

Doc Holliday said:

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Booray said:

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whiterock said:

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Booray said:

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Or different in that Obama complied with the law and Trump did not.

I am sure it hurt to have that small detail pointed out.

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all the reporting I have seen indicates he was cooperating, to include securing the material as requested behind a locked door.

If you can show me where he refused to grant further access for inspection or retrieval, I'm all ears. Not WAPO unnamed sources, but documentary proof.

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You are about to get it when the warrant and supporting docs are released.

Merrick Garland did not do this for no reason.

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If it was damning, it would have already been released or leaked.

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Leaks come from people who either don't control or don't want to be seen controlling the release of information. I don't see either of those factors here. Trump's adversaries are in charge and free to make their public case in whatever way seems best to them.

Yeah, and Comey never had stuff leaked in Russiagate.

Thanks for another post to show us all how gullible and worthless your thoughts are.

I was iffy on if the WaPo reporting was correct, but damn if Trump isn't the worst poker player ever.

Is this new Trump statement an admission that he took nuclear-related documents from the White House?

“President Barack Hussein Obama kept 33 million pages of documents, much of them classified. How many of them pertained to nuclear? Word is, lots!”

— Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) August 12, 2022

Married A Horn said:

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Yeah, and Comey never had stuff leaked in Russiagate.

Thanks for another post to show us all how gullible and worthless your thoughts are.

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If that is true, it proves Sam's point. Comey was not in charge of that investigation.

Booray said:

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Married A Horn said:

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Yeah, and Comey never had stuff leaked in Russiagate.

Thanks for another post to show us all how gullible and worthless your thoughts are.

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If that is true, it proves Sam's point. Coney was not in charge of that investigation.

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